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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Posted: 10/09/21 8:37 pm ::: |
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Skyfan22 wrote: |
Stormeo wrote: |
PUMatty wrote: |
Wilson and Cambage together aren't as good as the sum of their parts. It's the same issue as Jones and Thomas in CT. When your two best players are best at the same position, you have a problem. |
I had to think for a hot second about who exactly you were referring to here.
I might be in the minority, but I still see AThomas as more of a 3/4, and JJones as more of a 4/5, to where they can at least coexist together on the floor against virtually every other team. But in the same way that Laimbeer refuses to play A'ja Wilson as more of a full-time 5, Curt Miller seems to refuse to give Alyssa Thomas any minutes at the 3. I seem to remember AThomas giving a soundbite years ago about not being thrilled about being used more as a post player, but willing to accept the role.
I personally don't think that every SF in this League has to have a 3PT shot in order to be successful. Yes, having a 3PT shot helps, but especially if we're talking about AThomas here, she has more than enough skills on both ends of the floor to compensate for her literal lack of a jump shot.
For the record – assuming they all come back next season as expected, of course – I still think Miller should just try a JThomas-Bonner-AThomas-JJones-BJones starting lineup in 2022. Put your best 5 on the floor together – if it works, great. If it doesn't work, there are a couple ways he could tweak things. But I would generally say that none of the aforementioned starting 5 would be as effective off the bench than they would be as a starter (mostly talking about BJones here). |
Does Connecticut really need to change anything? They barely got beat by a red hot Sky team while trying to work on a returning player in AT. I wouldn’t change a thing unless salary issues forced a change. |
January is a UFA next year, so unless she agrees to come back for likely even less than she made this year (a modest $122k), they will lose her – assuming JJones re-signs on a supermax deal of some sort.
Otherwise, if January is able to come back, they could just do what they did in the playoffs and bring AThomas off the bench. Of course, the Sun did lose more games in this year’s playoffs than they won, so, idk.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16379 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 10/09/21 8:38 pm ::: |
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Skyfan22 wrote: |
Stormeo wrote: |
PUMatty wrote: |
Wilson and Cambage together aren't as good as the sum of their parts. It's the same issue as Jones and Thomas in CT. When your two best players are best at the same position, you have a problem. |
I had to think for a hot second about who exactly you were referring to here.
I might be in the minority, but I still see AThomas as more of a 3/4, and JJones as more of a 4/5, to where they can at least coexist together on the floor against virtually every other team. But in the same way that Laimbeer refuses to play A'ja Wilson as more of a full-time 5, Curt Miller seems to refuse to give Alyssa Thomas any minutes at the 3. I seem to remember AThomas giving a soundbite years ago about not being thrilled about being used more as a post player, but willing to accept the role.
I personally don't think that every SF in this League has to have a 3PT shot in order to be successful. Yes, having a 3PT shot helps, but especially if we're talking about AThomas here, she has more than enough skills on both ends of the floor to compensate for her literal lack of a jump shot.
For the record – assuming they all come back next season as expected, of course – I still think Miller should just try a JThomas-Bonner-AThomas-JJones-BJones starting lineup in 2022. Put your best 5 on the floor together – if it works, great. If it doesn't work, there are a couple ways he could tweak things. But I would generally say that none of the aforementioned starting 5 would be as effective off the bench than they would be as a starter (mostly talking about BJones here). |
Does Connecticut really need to change anything? They barely got beat by a red hot Sky team while trying to work on a returning player in AT. I wouldn’t change a thing unless salary issues forced a change. |
That's the thing though ... adding Thomas is changing something. They were the best team in the league this year with her out. I am fully unconvinced the she and Jones work together - moving either of them off the 4 makes them less effective.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 7410 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: 10/10/21 8:20 am ::: |
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AThomas did not break out as a star until she was moved to the 4. The AT at 3 experiment failed miserably. And Bonner at the 2 is not going to get you the offense needed - she can get her shots snaking around 3's and 4's and be in position for rebounds. She can't get around guards enough and, sure, she can shoot over any guard but is not in position to rebound.
CT best lineup is:
PG: JThomas/Hiedeman
SG: super guard they get for Bri Jones
SF: Bonner
PF: AThomas
C: JJones
The big 3 need time together to gel. When they do, they'll be unstoppable. Especially if they get the guard worthy of a trade for Bri Jones. Brionna Jones has played her way into prime trade bait.
_________________ Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63902
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Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 861
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Iluvacc
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Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 4167
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Posted: 01/24/22 2:53 pm ::: |
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Davis4632 wrote: |
https://twitter.com/Khristina/status/1485385132022317058?t=ulE1mxLUgch1R9328NGFmw&s=19
Courtney Williams possibly returning to the Sun. |
Sooo does this mean either B Jones or AT is gone because there’s no way they can afford all of them?
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Richyyy
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24404 Location: London
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Posted: 01/24/22 3:04 pm ::: |
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It means January's gone. The rest of them are only affordable if someone (or multiple someones) takes a significant discount. If JJones took the supermax, and Hiedeman/Charles/Carrington and their first round pick are all on the roster, the most CWilliams could get would be barely more than the vet minimum. |
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Iluvacc
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Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 4167
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Posted: 01/24/22 3:14 pm ::: |
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I forgot about January. Didn’t she sign with Seattle?
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Richyyy
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24404 Location: London
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Posted: 01/24/22 3:23 pm ::: |
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Iluvacc wrote: |
I forgot about January. Didn’t she sign with Seattle? |
One report said she was heading there, yes. Not from an account I consider 100% gospel truth. |
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Iluvacc
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Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 4167
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6827
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Posted: 01/24/22 3:35 pm ::: |
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so it could be this
J. Thomas/Heideman
C. Williams/Charles/pick 12 (C. Williams, Westbrook, Burton, Hull)
Bonner/Carrington
A. Thomas/Mompremier
J. Jones/B. Jones
but probably not unless C. Williams is doing a 1 year redemption contract or J. Jones takes a little less than super max so C. Will can get a little more
they could also get a few thousand more by cutting Charles and Carrington and replacing them with minimum players
or they can trade a bigger contract B. Jones, Bonner, A. Thomas for a smaller contract and use some of that money for Jones super max and a better contract for C. Will.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6827
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Posted: 01/24/22 8:08 pm ::: |
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trade idea both sides hear me out
B. Jones and the #12 pick (or Carrington or even both) for the #1 pick
from Washington's point of view assuming EDD comes back and they are in win now mode
Mike T doesn't play rookies that much, B. Jones is a ver nice inside match to to play alongside EDD
B. Jones 120k contract is less than it would cost to re-sign Charles or probably even Hines-Allen (who Conn might be able to use in a sign and trade.
Jones smaller contract would free up a little money to either bring back Walker-Kimbrough or a 90kish center like maybe Plaisance, Cannon or E. Williams to come off the bench or maybe even both
#12 pick can be used on replacement back up PG like Henderson, Westbrook, Burton, Morrison, Hayes. Clouden, etc
Cloud/#12 (Henderson, Westbrook, Burton)
Atkins/SWK
Clark/Weiss
EDD/McCall/Gustovson
B. Jones/Plaisance, E. Will or Cannon
Conn can use #1 pick on Austin, pay C. Williams and J. Jones and maintain the rest of their 11 player roster
J. Thomas/Heideman
C. Will/Charles
Bonner/Carrington
A. Thomas/Mompremier
J. Jones/#1 pick (Austin)
and fill out the 11th spot with the best player to survive the waiver wire or maybe even have enough left over for a vet minimum for someone who falls through the cracks like say Sims, Dietrick, B. Holmes, Cunningham or Banham
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root_thing
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Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 01/24/22 10:39 pm ::: |
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J-Spoon wrote: |
B. Jones and the #12 pick (or Carrington or even both) for the #1 pick
from Washington's point of view assuming EDD comes back and they are in win now mode
Mike T doesn't play rookies that much, B. Jones is a ver nice inside match to to play alongside EDD
B. Jones 120k contract is less than it would cost to re-sign Charles or probably even Hines-Allen (who Conn might be able to use in a sign and trade.
Jones smaller contract would free up a little money to either bring back Walker-Kimbrough or a 90kish center like maybe Plaisance, Cannon or E. Williams to come off the bench or maybe even both
#12 pick can be used on replacement back up PG like Henderson, Westbrook, Burton, Morrison, Hayes. Clouden, etc
Cloud/#12 (Henderson, Westbrook, Burton)
Atkins/SWK
Clark/Weiss
EDD/McCall/Gustovson
B. Jones/Plaisance, E. Will or Cannon
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You're glossing over the fact that DC is dropping Hines-Allen. Yes, Brionna was the better player this year because MHA came in late and then got injured. However, Myisha was the much better player in 2020. Neither is proven as a consistent year-to-year performer, so I rate them as roughly even. Therefore, it comes down to the #1 pick versus whoever you use that savings on -- in this case, SWK. I don't think many people would choose Walker-Kimbrough over Rhyne Howard, NaLyssa Smith or Shakira Austin. Plaisance, Cannon or E. Williams wouldn't cut it either -- not even close. And for the record, Thibault has a history of using rookies if they're good. Tina Charles played 31 mpg. Ariel Atkins earned 22.5 mpg as a middling 1st Round pick. Cloud got 19.3 as a 2nd Round pick, and Meeseeman logged 14.6 mpg as the second 2nd round pick.
Also note that the savings you get from Jones's cheap contract expires after this year. Then, you have to make room to pay her. The savings you get if the #1 overall pick works out is enormous. You can potentially have a star player for four years on a severely below-market contract. In a good draft, you don't trade those #1 or #2 picks unless it's a tremendous deal.
_________________ You can always do something else.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6827
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Posted: 01/24/22 11:24 pm ::: |
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root_thing wrote: |
J-Spoon wrote: |
B. Jones and the #12 pick (or Carrington or even both) for the #1 pick
from Washington's point of view assuming EDD comes back and they are in win now mode
Mike T doesn't play rookies that much, B. Jones is a ver nice inside match to to play alongside EDD
B. Jones 120k contract is less than it would cost to re-sign Charles or probably even Hines-Allen (who Conn might be able to use in a sign and trade.
Jones smaller contract would free up a little money to either bring back Walker-Kimbrough or a 90kish center like maybe Plaisance, Cannon or E. Williams to come off the bench or maybe even both
#12 pick can be used on replacement back up PG like Henderson, Westbrook, Burton, Morrison, Hayes. Clouden, etc
Cloud/#12 (Henderson, Westbrook, Burton)
Atkins/SWK
Clark/Weiss
EDD/McCall/Gustovson
B. Jones/Plaisance, E. Will or Cannon
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You're glossing over the fact that DC is dropping Hines-Allen. Yes, Brionna was the better player this year because MHA came in late and then got injured. However, Myisha was the much better player in 2020. Neither is proven as a consistent year-to-year performer, so I rate them as roughly even. Therefore, it comes down to the #1 pick versus whoever you use that savings on -- in this case, SWK. I don't think many people would choose Walker-Kimbrough over Rhyne Howard, NaLyssa Smith or Shakira Austin. Plaisance, Cannon or E. Williams wouldn't cut it either -- not even close. And for the record, Thibault has a history of using rookies if they're good. Tina Charles played 31 mpg. Ariel Atkins earned 22.5 mpg as a middling 1st Round pick. Cloud got 19.3 as a 2nd Round pick, and Meeseeman logged 14.6 mpg as the second 2nd round pick.
Also note that the savings you get from Jones's cheap contract expires after this year. Then, you have to make room to pay her. The savings you get if the #1 overall pick works out is enormous. You can potentially have a star player for four years on a severely below-market contract. In a good draft, you don't trade those #1 or #2 picks unless it's a tremendous deal. |
I agree with all your points but
one thought I had was that the trade would be working with the idea that EDD is back and healthy therefor I thought B. Jones is a much better match with her upfront than Hines-Allen so basically better match at cheaper money letting Mike T bring in additional experienced help whether it is SWK and/or others
my second though was this draft is weird I am not sure Howard is either a good fit with EDD or with Mike T. I will not be surprised if he keeps the pick if he goes with Austin or Smith over Howard or even makes a much less exciting trade with say Indy or Atl if they want Howard and he wants Smith or Austin. And I am also not sure Any of the rookies are as win now as B. Jones is again assuming EDD is back and Washington is going for a Championship in 22.
So far I have put out two B. Jones ideas
To NY for #5 and Jaz Jones (considered not enough for Bri. Jones) and
To Washington along with the #12 pick for the #1 pick (considered too little for the return of the #1 pick).
So maybe I will cut it down the middle Bri. Jones to Atl for the #3 pick
Conn solves its cap problem, can afford to super max Jonq. Jones give C. Will a decent contract and gets who ever is left between Howard, Smith and Austin
Atl adds Bri. Jones to the youngish core of Carter, Ch. Parker, Billings, McDonald and Coffey
I don't know I feel like Atl is far from contending unless they strike it rich in free agency so they might want to keep the #3 pick to develop along with Carter, but Bri Jones and Ch. Parker could be an interesting front-court to match with Carter might have to think about it a little more.
or maybe #4 and B. Alarie for Bri. Jones
that is kind of interesting Br. Jones with Sabally and Ogunbowale makes sense
Dallas consolidates two OK pieces for one better piece which is the type of move The Wings have to make if they want to climb the standing
Conn solves is cap space for J. Jones and C. Will, can experiment with the #4 pick and brings in a player the C. Miller might be able to find more of a role for in Alarie
Dallas
Jefferson/Harrison
Ogunbowale/Mabrey/#6 Burrell or Dungee
Sabally/Gray
Harrison/Collier/Thorton
Bri. Jones/Kuier
Conn
J. Thomas/Heideman
C. Will/Charles
Bonner/Carrington
A. Thomas/Mompremier
J. Jones/Alarie
and you can go in a lot of different direction with the #4 pick Joens, Cunane, Hillmon, Bell, Henderson, N. Sabally ( I would take a good long look at Joens or N. Sabally for that last spot depending on what coach thins is the missing piece).
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 01/25/22 1:57 am ::: |
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I thought last year Dallas should have traded the #1. But that is very rare. I can't see Washington doing it unless they get a superstar in return. He'll take Howard or Austin and that will be fine. There's enough good vets (even if they lose a couple) on that team that the rookie won't have to be an immediate superstar so can ease into her role. But it's always fun to consider the options.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63902
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Posted: 01/25/22 3:45 am ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
I thought last year Dallas should have traded the #1. |
Myrtle, they traded FOR the #1 pick.
Quote: |
Dallas has acquired the #1 pick from the Seattle Storm in exchange for forward Katie Lou Samuelson and Dallas's second-round pick in 2022. |
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 01/25/22 10:52 am ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
I thought last year Dallas should have traded the #1. |
Myrtle, they traded FOR the #1 pick.
Quote: |
Dallas has acquired the #1 pick from the Seattle Storm in exchange for forward Katie Lou Samuelson and Dallas's second-round pick in 2022. |
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Yeah. Crazy.
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DFWub2018
![](http://file:///storage/emulated/0/Download/dallas__wings-Mavs.png.01c372f2b81efbe41ab6f5fb76dd18fa.p)
Joined: 24 Aug 2018 Posts: 1047 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth
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Posted: 01/25/22 1:15 pm ::: |
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J-Spoon wrote: |
root_thing wrote: |
J-Spoon wrote: |
B. Jones and the #12 pick (or Carrington or even both) for the #1 pick
from Washington's point of view assuming EDD comes back and they are in win now mode
Mike T doesn't play rookies that much, B. Jones is a ver nice inside match to to play alongside EDD
B. Jones 120k contract is less than it would cost to re-sign Charles or probably even Hines-Allen (who Conn might be able to use in a sign and trade.
Jones smaller contract would free up a little money to either bring back Walker-Kimbrough or a 90kish center like maybe Plaisance, Cannon or E. Williams to come off the bench or maybe even both
#12 pick can be used on replacement back up PG like Henderson, Westbrook, Burton, Morrison, Hayes. Clouden, etc
Cloud/#12 (Henderson, Westbrook, Burton)
Atkins/SWK
Clark/Weiss
EDD/McCall/Gustovson
B. Jones/Plaisance, E. Will or Cannon
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You're glossing over the fact that DC is dropping Hines-Allen. Yes, Brionna was the better player this year because MHA came in late and then got injured. However, Myisha was the much better player in 2020. Neither is proven as a consistent year-to-year performer, so I rate them as roughly even. Therefore, it comes down to the #1 pick versus whoever you use that savings on -- in this case, SWK. I don't think many people would choose Walker-Kimbrough over Rhyne Howard, NaLyssa Smith or Shakira Austin. Plaisance, Cannon or E. Williams wouldn't cut it either -- not even close. And for the record, Thibault has a history of using rookies if they're good. Tina Charles played 31 mpg. Ariel Atkins earned 22.5 mpg as a middling 1st Round pick. Cloud got 19.3 as a 2nd Round pick, and Meeseeman logged 14.6 mpg as the second 2nd round pick.
Also note that the savings you get from Jones's cheap contract expires after this year. Then, you have to make room to pay her. The savings you get if the #1 overall pick works out is enormous. You can potentially have a star player for four years on a severely below-market contract. In a good draft, you don't trade those #1 or #2 picks unless it's a tremendous deal. |
I agree with all your points but
one thought I had was that the trade would be working with the idea that EDD is back and healthy therefor I thought B. Jones is a much better match with her upfront than Hines-Allen so basically better match at cheaper money letting Mike T bring in additional experienced help whether it is SWK and/or others
my second though was this draft is weird I am not sure Howard is either a good fit with EDD or with Mike T. I will not be surprised if he keeps the pick if he goes with Austin or Smith over Howard or even makes a much less exciting trade with say Indy or Atl if they want Howard and he wants Smith or Austin. And I am also not sure Any of the rookies are as win now as B. Jones is again assuming EDD is back and Washington is going for a Championship in 22.
So far I have put out two B. Jones ideas
To NY for #5 and Jaz Jones (considered not enough for Bri. Jones) and
To Washington along with the #12 pick for the #1 pick (considered too little for the return of the #1 pick).
So maybe I will cut it down the middle Bri. Jones to Atl for the #3 pick
Conn solves its cap problem, can afford to super max Jonq. Jones give C. Will a decent contract and gets who ever is left between Howard, Smith and Austin
Atl adds Bri. Jones to the youngish core of Carter, Ch. Parker, Billings, McDonald and Coffey
I don't know I feel like Atl is far from contending unless they strike it rich in free agency so they might want to keep the #3 pick to develop along with Carter, but Bri Jones and Ch. Parker could be an interesting front-court to match with Carter might have to think about it a little more.
or maybe #4 and B. Alarie for Bri. Jones
that is kind of interesting Br. Jones with Sabally and Ogunbowale makes sense
Dallas consolidates two OK pieces for one better piece which is the type of move The Wings have to make if they want to climb the standing
Conn solves is cap space for J. Jones and C. Will, can experiment with the #4 pick and brings in a player the C. Miller might be able to find more of a role for in Alarie
Dallas
Jefferson/Harrison
Ogunbowale/Mabrey/#6 Burrell or Dungee
Sabally/Gray
Harrison/Collier/Thorton
Bri. Jones/Kuier
Conn
J. Thomas/Heideman
C. Will/Charles
Bonner/Carrington
A. Thomas/Mompremier
J. Jones/Alarie
and you can go in a lot of different direction with the #4 pick Joens, Cunane, Hillmon, Bell, Henderson, N. Sabally ( I would take a good long look at Joens or N. Sabally for that last spot depending on what coach thins is the missing piece). |
#6 & Alarie for Bri. Jones
Ty Harris & Alarie for Bri. Jones
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Michelle89
![](http://blogs.seattletimes.com/womenshoops/files/2014/09/BirdUSAPrac.jpg)
Joined: 17 Nov 2010 Posts: 16464 Location: Holland
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Posted: 01/26/22 3:42 am ::: |
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Quote: |
The multi-year deal she plans to sign with Connecticut is less than the supermax, according to sources, giving the team more cap space to work with in free agency. |
https://justwomenssports.com/jonquel-jones-connecticut-sun-return-wnba-contract/
I wonder how much less she will take.
_________________ "Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63902
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Posted: 01/28/22 4:32 pm ::: |
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Connecticut signs Stephanie Jones to a training camp contract.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Milks26
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Joined: 25 Mar 2021 Posts: 830
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Posted: 02/01/22 10:52 am ::: |
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According to @Gabe Ibrahim
Jonquel Jones signed a 2-year deal for $205,000 in 2022 and $211,150 in 2023 to return to the Connecticut Sun, multiple sources have informed
@herhoopstats
_________________ ~College WBB & the "W' need other tv networks covering the important stuff...Espn is beyond tired~
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blue crabs & basketba
Joined: 15 Apr 2021 Posts: 120 Location: the place w/the great flag
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Posted: 02/02/22 11:06 am ::: |
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It is official that Courtney Williams is back with the Sun.
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root_thing
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Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 02/02/22 11:54 am ::: |
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For all you fans who have been watching AU and crying out for Taj Cole to get a chance, it looks like she is signing a training camp contract with Connecticut.
_________________ You can always do something else.
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RI_Sun_Fan
Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Posts: 858
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Posted: 02/03/22 3:19 pm ::: |
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Does anyone have the details of the Courtney Williams contract ?
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Richyyy
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24404 Location: London
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