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root_thing
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 Posted: 09/20/21 7:56 pm ::: |
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| I almost think it's the opposite. By not getting into the playoffs, the Liberty would have ended on a high note with that victory at home. Management could try to milk those good feelings for all they're worth. Now, if the Liberty go into Phoenix and get embarrassed, it will bring back all the bad memories from the eight-game losing streak. That's like reopening a wound just as you head into exit interviews and organizational evaluations.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 09/20/21 8:54 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| I almost think it's the opposite. By not getting into the playoffs, the Liberty would have ended on a high note with that victory at home. Management could try to milk those good feelings for all they're worth. Now, if the Liberty go into Phoenix and get embarrassed, it will bring back all the bad memories from the eight-game losing streak. That's like reopening a wound just as you head into exit interviews and organizational evaluations. |
I agree in part and disagree in part. It's true that a blowout on Thursday will end this disappointing season with an unpleasant final memory, But, in my view, anyone who would have seen that final victory at home as a "high note" would have been deluded. So instead of losing 12 of the final 13 games you only lose 11 of the final 13? So what?
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Lib Fan
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| Posted: 09/20/21 9:02 pm ::: |
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| Is the glass half empty or half full ?
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 09/20/21 9:10 pm ::: |
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That's a lot of good work, toad, and I'm sure especially difficult in trying to weigh the value of length of service. All in all, it seems to me the Liberty got higher quality players via trades and free agency than drafts.
Last edited by GlennMacGrady on 09/20/21 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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myrtle
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| Posted: 09/20/21 9:11 pm ::: |
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| Lib Fan wrote: |
| Is the glass half empty or half full ? |
both. there are positives but the balance is fragile. A few changes could make a big difference but it's not clear that those changes will be made.
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Lib Fan
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| Posted: 09/20/21 9:26 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| Lib Fan wrote: |
| Is the glass half empty or half full ? |
both. there are positives but the balance is fragile. A few changes could make a big difference but it's not clear that those changes will be made. |
And those changes are ?
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myrtle
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| Posted: 09/20/21 9:56 pm ::: |
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| Lib Fan wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| Lib Fan wrote: |
| Is the glass half empty or half full ? |
both. there are positives but the balance is fragile. A few changes could make a big difference but it's not clear that those changes will be made. |
And those changes are ? |
everybody has their own ideas of course (see above). I like a lot of your pieces - Io, Sami, Laney, Howard, and have been happily surprised that Didi turned out to be useful, but the main one missing is in the middle. If you have somebody there, it will make everyone else's job much easier. So my thoughts are a) give Walt another year and see if he can adjust just a little. I don't think he's totally out of line and am intrigued to see if his 'system' could actually work; b) get a real big to play alongside Howard. You don't have to blow up the system for this to work - get someone who can bang, rebound, and occasionally shoot the three. The FA I see that might fit would be Dolson. I'm not a big fan of hers in general but think she could work here to fulfil a specific function; c) if you can't get a center that fits like this, at least get one with size that can rebound. Rebounding has been a major problem; d) get a real backup PG and bury J. Jones deep on the bench. Energy will only take you so far, and too often in the wrong direction; e) take best available in the draft at whatever position that happens to be. It would be nice to get a big but if the right one isn't there, pass on it.
JMO.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 09/20/21 10:09 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| I almost think it's the opposite. By not getting into the playoffs, the Liberty would have ended on a high note with that victory at home. Management could try to milk those good feelings for all they're worth. Now, if the Liberty go into Phoenix and get embarrassed, it will bring back all the bad memories from the eight-game losing streak. That's like reopening a wound just as you head into exit interviews and organizational evaluations. |
I agree in part and disagree in part. It's true that a blowout on Thursday will end this disappointing season with an unpleasant final memory, But, in my view, anyone who would have seen that final victory at home as a "high note" would have been deluded. So instead of losing 12 of the final 13 games you only lose 11 of the final 13? So what? |
That's how you feel because you are already negatively disposed. However, maybe ownership likes Kolb and Hopkins, Or perhaps they just don't want to start over again this soon. So, ownership may be on the fence, looking for a reason to give their boy geniuses another chance. Provided with a small excuse to look the other way, maybe they take it. However, another blowout loss would be a cold slap in the face. That might knock them off the fence to the opposite side.
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Bob Lamm
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 09/21/21 12:15 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| Lib Fan wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| Lib Fan wrote: |
| Is the glass half empty or half full ? |
both. there are positives but the balance is fragile. A few changes could make a big difference but it's not clear that those changes will be made. |
And those changes are ? |
everybody has their own ideas of course (see above). I like a lot of your pieces - Io, Sami, Laney, Howard, and have been happily surprised that Didi turned out to be useful, but the main one missing is in the middle. If you have somebody there, it will make everyone else's job much easier. So my thoughts are a) give Walt another year and see if he can adjust just a little. I don't think he's totally out of line and am intrigued to see if his 'system' could actually work; b) get a real big to play alongside Howard. You don't have to blow up the system for this to work - get someone who can bang, rebound, and occasionally shoot the three. The FA I see that might fit would be Dolson. I'm not a big fan of hers in general but think she could work here to fulfil a specific function; c) if you can't get a center that fits like this, at least get one with size that can rebound. Rebounding has been a major problem; d) get a real backup PG and bury J. Jones deep on the bench. Energy will only take you so far, and too often in the wrong direction; e) take best available in the draft at whatever position that happens to be. It would be nice to get a big but if the right one isn't there, pass on it.
JMO. |
Yeah we have had two pretty dramatic offseason in 20 and 21. I know it is probably not popular but less change could be OK. We have a decent pick, some interesting talent in the family that has missed some time, a lot of room for internal growth.
Bouncing off of what has been said on the last few pages alone maybe something like this would be enough to get to the next level in 22
Ionescu/Johannes
Whitcomb/Durr/Richards or Jones
Laney/Onyenwere
Howard/Allen/Willoughby
Dolson/#5 Austin or Cunane
The Richards or Jones battle is killing me Obviously if Johannes doesn't show up or Durr or Willoughby isn't ready or we can't re-sign Allen it solves that battle. If not I pick Richards over Jones but I am not sure who the team picks.
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Bob Lamm
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undersized_post
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| Posted: 09/22/21 10:19 pm ::: |
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| anyone else find themselves wondering how things would have turned out had NY hung on to Clarendon?
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 09/22/21 10:42 pm ::: |
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| undersized_post wrote: |
| anyone else find themselves wondering how things would have turned out had NY hung on to Clarendon? |
I really don't. I kind of admire the gusto of Hop & Kolb deciding, "We're just gonna make Ionescu learn the PG spot the hard way, with no other PGs on the team to learn from or compare herself to." True hardcore on-the-job training; Kinda feels like the New York Way™ (if there ever was one). It is strange though they didn't seem to care about trading Clarendon if they had a sneaking suspicion that they'd release them not even weeks into the season. Clarendon did put up pretty good numbers for the team in 2020, after all; Their contract wasn't even pricey at all, either.
What I do wonder about sometimes is how things would be different if Hop & Kolb had just hung onto their Louisville player fascination a little longer and drafted Dana Evans instead of Onyenwere at #6, considering they seemed pretty sure early on that they were gonna release Clarendon.
I'm mostly convinced, but still not 100% convinced, that Ionescu should be a full-time PG. I also like seeing two PGs start alongside each other in the backcourt. Too, Ionescu & Evans both have the range to play off the ball. But I'm guessing they probably wouldn't try to acquire another scoring lead guard, considering the French guards they already hold the rights to (Johannès & Fauthoux).
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root_thing
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| Posted: 09/22/21 11:40 pm ::: |
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| Even if you want Ionescu to be the point guard, it's not like she's going to play 40 minutes a game for 32 games. You still need a competent backup. New York's offense is usually a mess when Sabrina is sitting. We get to see Laney add to her league leading turnover total. I remember Hopkins saying last season that the Liberty were lucky to have lots of people who could play point guard. Sure. A couple of weeks later, they signed Paris Kea. So, I can imagine him telling Kolb the same thing this year, "Oh, we have Laney, Sami, Jaz, and Didi will develop as the season goes on. We have plenty of depth at point guard." Hopkins is just over-confident in his and his staff's ability to develop players. I don't know if he is arrogant or delusional, but his assumptions have been proven wrong time and time again.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 09/23/21 1:02 am ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| Even if you want Ionescu to be the point guard, it's not like she's going to play 40 minutes a game for 32 games. You still need a competent backup. New York's offense is usually a mess when Sabrina is sitting. We get to see Laney add to her league leading turnover total. I remember Hopkins saying last season that the Liberty were lucky to have lots of people who could play point guard. Sure. A couple of weeks later, they signed Paris Kea. So, I can imagine him telling Kolb the same thing this year, "Oh, we have Laney, Sami, Jaz, and Didi will develop as the season goes on. We have plenty of depth at point guard." Hopkins is just over-confident in his and his staff's ability to develop players. I don't know if he is arrogant or delusional, but his assumptions have been proven wrong time and time again. |
Quite fascinating. Actually someone recently said of me: "That's how you feel because you are already negatively disposed." 
P.S. I was against releasing Layshia Clarendon. I completely agree with what you've said here, especially about our coach's overconfidence and his dubious assumptions.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 09/23/21 10:45 am ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| Even if you want Ionescu to be the point guard, it's not like she's going to play 40 minutes a game for 32 games. You still need a competent backup. New York's offense is usually a mess when Sabrina is sitting. We get to see Laney add to her league leading turnover total. I remember Hopkins saying last season that the Liberty were lucky to have lots of people who could play point guard. Sure. A couple of weeks later, they signed Paris Kea. So, I can imagine him telling Kolb the same thing this year, "Oh, we have Laney, Sami, Jaz, and Didi will develop as the season goes on. We have plenty of depth at point guard." Hopkins is just over-confident in his and his staff's ability to develop players. I don't know if he is arrogant or delusional, but his assumptions have been proven wrong time and time again. |
Quite fascinating. Actually someone recently said of me: "That's how you feel because you are already negatively disposed."
P.S. I was against releasing Layshia Clarendon. I completely agree with what you've said here, especially about our coach's overconfidence and his dubious assumptions. |
I don't pretend to be anything other than negative at this point. It's evident in my posts. It's also evident in your posts -- unless you think what you've been writing sounds positive. No "psychoanalysis" needed. 
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 09/23/21 11:23 am ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
I don't pretend to be anything other than negative at this point. It's evident in my posts. It's also evident in your posts -- unless you think what you've been writing sounds positive. No "psychoanalysis" needed. |
I've definitely gone from skeptical to negative. I was dubious from the start of the 2020 season regarding Walt's "small ball" plan and some of the specifics. (For example, converting Kiah Stokes into a three-point threat.) Until quite a few of us are proven wrong--if we ever are--I won't believe that you can win in the WNBA with just one post player on the court at any time.
I've found the downturn this season especially depressing. Losing 11 out of 13, with one of the two victories coming on a night when Stewart and Bird were both sitting... that's terrible. This team had as four of its starters for those games Laney, Howard, Ionescu, and Whitcomb. All four looked healthy. That's a lot of talent to lose 11 out of 13.
I still like, on the whole, the moves Kolb has made this season. He brought in Laney, Howard, and Whitcomb. He drafted Onyenwere and Richards. To whatever extent Hopkins was part of those decisions, I give him credit as well. But nothing I've seen in 2021 about Hopkins' coaching has impressed me.
I am trying to remain positive at least for these playoffs. I don't expect the Liberty to beat Phoenix, but it's possible. So I'll be watching and hoping.
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NYSports56
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| Posted: 09/23/21 3:43 pm ::: |
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Hi, everyone! I haven't posted since last year, but I've watched every game this season, and just binge read this folder. I enjoyed reading the reactions of all of the familiar posters as the season evolved, but wow---that "is Sabrina on one foot or not" thing was painful!
Anyway, what a ride, huh? I really thought it was over when we lost in Dallas. Another blown lead, and I figured we would need to beat both Connecticut and Washington to make the playoffs; with the way they were playing, that seemed impossible. And it was impossible: Jonquel Jones ate them alive, and then they needed the win in Washington and all that help.
Somehow, the stars aligned, and we've got extra Liberty basketball tonight! It's nice to be watching our team instead of someone else's team. I fear that Brittney Griner is going to eat us alive as well due to our glaring weakness defensively at the post, but there is absolutely no part of me that would prefer a higher draft pick to watching the Liberty play an extra meaningful post season game.
Here are my thoughts about the 2021 regular season:
Going in, I had modest expectations. I thought we did a great job in the off season, and had managed to land a superstar in Natasha Howard. I was concerned that both Betnijah Laney and Sami Whitcomb were coming off of career years, but there was no doubt they would add to the talent on our roster. The fact that nothing was done to improve the post position was the glaring weakness, but I hoped that Kiah Stokes and Kylee Shook would be enough of a two-headed center to get by long with Howard's presence in the paint. Certainly, the lack of size in the frontcourt would put Walt Hopkins's concept of positionless basketball to the test.
Those expectations went even higher once the season started off so well. Sabrina got her triple-double. Laney was rocking the house ever game. Michaela Onyenwere was Rookie of the Month. We were doing it all without Natasha Howard! I had some delusions of grandeur; it seemed to me that the Liberty had a genuine Big 3 in Ionescu, Laney, and Howard, with a supporting cast of good players. Enough to compete and not just qualify.
Well, we all know how that turned out. At least we qualified. But wow, what a slide.
And then, along the way, came the biggest buzzkill of all (for me): the Liberty released Kiah Stokes. It was a new experience for me: I don't know if one of my favorite players has ever been cut before; usually it's retirement, trade, or free agency. I became a true Liberty fan during Kiah's rookie season, and it will never be quite the same without her.
For the most part, I don't question Kiah's release. She is an offensive zero. Even worse than when she started. She's definitely not Walt's type of player. Her overseas obligations lessen her value. The future is still the focus, and developing a young center is wise (although I have my doubts about Shook).
However, she was the best post defender on the team, and I think we'd have a better chance of winning tonight if she were on the roster. Her defense has not degraded the way most people say it has; after the foot injury, her defense has returned to form both last year and this year. No one can stop Griner, but Kiah would make her work harder and cause just a few more misses.
Sigh. Bye-bye, Kiah. But Bill picked her up! Go Aces! Win Kiah a ring! Since the trade, I've been watching the Aces too, and I got to see her 13 rebound game, in which she recorded career rebound 1,000.
How about that second all-time favorite Liberty player of mine, Tina Charles? She wasn't washed up after all, was she? Even I couldn't have predicted the season she's having this year, but we surrounded her with nothing and she was a true warrior the whole time for us. She was underappreciated by many.
And while we're doing ex-Liberty players, who predicted Layshia Clarendon's success with the Lynx? No one in this folder, that's for sure; many doubted Layshia would be picked up at all. I watch the Lynx because of Napheesa Collier (yes, NYL_WNBA_FAN, you were right). Before this year, I would have said that Clarendon doesn't make the players around them better, and is therefore not a good point guard. Play after play, Layshia is slowly convincing me that I was wrong.
Sabrina is slow. I don't care whether she's playing on one foot right now; unless that injury was hampering her early in the season when she was recording her triple double--she is very slow. She'll probably become very adept at steering her player to where the help is (like another slow NY point guard, Mark Jackson), but she is going to require constant help.
Besides her speed, Sabrina is great! She's still learning, but she's a complete player, and I don't think speed will be much of an issue on offense.
Natasha Howard looked like an unstoppable force on both sides of the court when in Seattle. I don't know if it's the lingering injury, or if it's just the supporting cast and the system, but I somehow hoped for more from her. She has seldom shown the ability to take over a game the way she did when I used to root against her.
Although she has worn down as the season progresses, the reason we're in the playoffs is Betnijah Laney. Like Whitcomb, she proved that her 2020 season was not a fluke, and has won me over with her intensity and commitment in every aspect of the game.
I think everyone would have signed on the dotted line for the season Sami Whitcomb had at the start of the season, right? She was perhaps our most consistent player.
Laney, Whitcomb, Howard, and the drafting of Onyenwere? Kolb did an even better job than I thought going into the season. It's got to make you wonder, why did this team lose 18 of its last 24 games? Injuries were tough, but not unprecedented.
Obviously, my last statement is questioning the coaching, although I am not completely bailing on Hopkins just yet. I fear that tonight's game is going to highlight the downside of his coaching philosophy in a big way: I think Griner is going to be too much of a problem without a genuine post presence. Prove us wrong, Walt!
Peace and health to you all. Go Liberty!
Last edited by NYSports56 on 09/23/21 5:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 09/23/21 5:21 pm ::: |
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I think a big thing tonight is that the Liberty will probably defend Griner the way other small teams defend taller players. By being active, fronting and doubling before the player turns into her move. It’s really not rocket science. The only team that doesn’t defend this way in big-small matchups so frequently is the Liberty. In a must-win game against DC, they were able to take Tina out of the game by finally going all out with doubles and traps. Why they don’t do that more often is beyond me.
Obviously you’re not taking Griner out of the game but there are ways to defend her that don’t result in a 30-15 night with 70% shooting. Even with the Libs’ size. Team Japan competed with Team USA in the Olympics better than the Liberty do in some WNBA games. Doing the same things the Liberty try to do. With a greater disparity in talent. The bottom line is, defending from this size profile can be done. If you do it right.
It’s a do or die game so I’d expect them to scheme accordingly.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 09/23/21 5:32 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
I think a big thing tonight is that the Liberty will probably defend Griner the way other small teams defend taller players. By being active, fronting and doubling before the player turns into her move. It’s really not rocket science. The only team that doesn’t defend this way in big-small matchups so frequently is the Liberty. In a must-win game against DC, they were able to take Tina out of the game by finally going all out with doubles and traps. Why they don’t do that more often is beyond me.
Obviously you’re not taking Griner out of the game but there are ways to defend her that don’t result in a 30-15 night with 70% shooting. Even with the Libs’ size. Team Japan competed with Team USA in the Olympics better than the Liberty do in some WNBA games. Doing the same things the Liberty try to do. With a greater disparity in talent. The bottom line is, defending from this size profile can be done. If you do it right.
It’s a do or die game so I’d expect them to scheme accordingly. |
Hoping you are right. Even if it doesn't work, this is the way to go. The only hope.
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IM in OC
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| Posted: 09/23/21 6:52 pm ::: |
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| Is Ionescu playing overseas after the playoffs? I dont recall reading anything on her signing anywhere.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 09/23/21 11:31 pm ::: |
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It was a very painful loss, but I'm SO proud of our team.
I didn't expect New York to beat Phoenix. Some Liberty fans hoped that we wouldn't make the playoffs. I was happy we did because I hoped for what we saw tonight. That after a really dismal second half of the season the Liberty would come up big in a playoff game, win or lose. And they did.
I've been very critical of Walt Hopkins. I give him credit tonight: he had an excellent game plan and got his players to execute it quite well.
Betnijah Laney played like an MVP, obviously including that last three-pointer. And tonight she only had TWO turnovers while the team had only nine. What an improvement!
Excellent double-double from Sabrina Ionescu. A shame that she couldn't hit her threes, but a terrific 11 assists and only two turnovers.
I've been unenthusiastic about Rebecca Allen. She played a fine game tonight on both ends of the floor.
And what Liberty fan thought that Reshanda Gray would score EIGHT crucial points in the 4th quarter, including hitting a three-pointer. Even with her obvious limitations as a player, I've always liked Reshanda.
Because of what I saw tonight, I feel MUCH better about next season. And I believe the Liberty's strong play, even in a losing effort, will help.
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NYSports56
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| Posted: 09/24/21 12:04 am ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
It was a very painful loss, but I'm SO proud of our team.
I didn't expect New York to beat Phoenix. Some Liberty fans hoped that we wouldn't make the playoffs. I was happy we did because I hoped for what we saw tonight. That after a really dismal second half of the season the Liberty would come up big in a playoff game, win or lose. And they did.
I've been very critical of Walt Hopkins. I give him credit tonight: he had an excellent game plan and got his players to execute it quite well.
Betnijah Laney played like an MVP, obviously including that last three-pointer. And tonight she only had TWO turnovers while the team had only nine. What an improvement!
Excellent double-double from Sabrina Ionescu. A shame that she couldn't hit her threes, but a terrific 11 assists and only two turnovers.
I've been unenthusiastic about Rebecca Allen. She played a fine game tonight on both ends of the floor.
And what Liberty fan thought that Reshanda Gray would score EIGHT crucial points in the 4th quarter, including hitting a three-pointer. Even with her obvious limitations as a player, I've always liked Reshanda.
Because of what I saw tonight, I feel MUCH better about next season. And I believe the Liberty's strong play, even in a losing effort, will help. |
I agree with everything single thing you said here, Bob. Except for one minor thing: I was a bit more enthusiastic about Rebecca Allen during the regular season than you were. I would have looked a lot better if I had mentioned it in my post before her solid game tonight, but to me, her entire season has been just a little more solid than anything that she has done before, both offensively and defensively.
I also read that post of mine again and feel that my tone was too negative considering the season we just had compared to what we've been through for the past 3 years. I mean, last year we were 2-20, but we weren't nearly as good as our record indicated. It was so nice to feel like we were in almost every game we played this year, instead of asking ourselves why we were watching yet another blowout.
Disappointed, but proud.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 09/24/21 4:34 am ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
It was a very painful loss, but I'm SO proud of our team.
I didn't expect New York to beat Phoenix. Some Liberty fans hoped that we wouldn't make the playoffs. I was happy we did because I hoped for what we saw tonight. That after a really dismal second half of the season the Liberty would come up big in a playoff game, win or lose. And they did.
I've been very critical of Walt Hopkins. I give him credit tonight: he had an excellent game plan and got his players to execute it quite well.
Betnijah Laney played like an MVP, obviously including that last three-pointer. And tonight she only had TWO turnovers while the team had only nine. What an improvement!
Excellent double-double from Sabrina Ionescu. A shame that she couldn't hit her threes, but a terrific 11 assists and only two turnovers.
I've been unenthusiastic about Rebecca Allen. She played a fine game tonight on both ends of the floor.
And what Liberty fan thought that Reshanda Gray would score EIGHT crucial points in the 4th quarter, including hitting a three-pointer. Even with her obvious limitations as a player, I've always liked Reshanda.
Because of what I saw tonight, I feel MUCH better about next season. And I believe the Liberty's strong play, even in a losing effort, will help. |
I’m on board with all of this. It was nice to see the Liberty play closer to what their talent level represents. It was also good to see them limit turnovers, contain Griner, and limit SDS’ trips to the foul line. Given their cap situation, the #5 pick and Johannes’ return being plausible, it stands to reason the team will have more depth in need areas. Probably a little more size too.
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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14097
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| Posted: 09/24/21 4:44 am ::: |
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Hopkins on officiating:
https://twitter.com/mylesehrlich/status/1441265270534799363?s=21
https://twitter.com/mylesehrlich/status/1441264480726315008?s=12
As a fan, I’m on four hours of sleep. No other sport treats its fans to a first round one and done elimination playoff game at 10 PM. I’ve unsuccessfully repeatedly tried to get in touch with my season ticket rep to renew tickets to watch this stuff again. On top of it, it’s frustrating to constantly have to beg for some standard of consistency. Down 1 down the stretch, Howard is going in a direct line to the basket. There’s enough clear body contact that it causes her to fall out of bounds and be unable to get immediately back up. Phoenix has numbers the other way and gets an easy layup. That’s probably the game’s most important swing. It wasn’t a 50/50 call and you’re talking about a reach through the body, non-defensive guarding position and hip contact all on the same play. It was an obvious call, one that’s made often. Why not at a critical juncture in the game? Got me. Insult to injury is it gave Phoenix a numbers advantage. So it’s a 4-point swing instead of 2.
I watched my team yet again have a ridiculously negative foul discrepancy throughout the season. It’s been like that for a vast majority of my team’s existence. Even Bill Laimbeer and a heavy interior emphasis was only good enough for minor free throw advantages for a couple of seasons.
How much does one have to accept as a fan of this sport? It’s hard to spend a couple of thousand dollars for season tickets in exchange for the above and feel like it’s a wise investment.
And just saying. This probably isn’t the post to tell me I complain about the refs too much. When your team is about -2,000 over a 25 year period in free throws get back to me. You’d be frustrated too.
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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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