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Why Is Donald Trump Leading The Polls?
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jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/03/21 6:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This topic you guys are talking about now, or were talking about a few posts up, the handling of the pandemic by Trump and now the Biden administration, is one of the deepest and most interesting subjects in recent American history. I would go as far as saying it's the MOST interesting subject in recent American history. And I say that as a person who basically thinks it's a WASH between who has handled it worse. But I don't have time for this shit. Wink

I'll say one other thing, the Biden admins handling of the pandemic has been so much more infinitely complex with many facets of shiny surfaces reflecting light and motivations hidden deep in the bowels of their thinking (I LIKE that!) and being worked on levels of information manipulation that is like something out of a 70s government paranoia flick. And yeah, they're fucking things up because of it, BUT, the truth is, the ugly truth, there's no right way forward out of this mess at this point and there hasn't been for most of this year.

The Trump administration, as ANY administration would have been, was caught by surprise by COVID. Trump puts the worst face on everything he touches and COVID was for the most part no exception. But his TEAM was Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx and I thought they were magnificent. Also Trump was served well by the others who were at the top of his team. IMO.

I totally agree with tfan about the pressers. I thought, for the most part, for a long stretch, they were Trump showing the talent he has for leadership. I know people are puking on their laptops right now. It's all the dude has except for a disputed amount of money and some golf courses and hotels. That's the reason his poll numbers finally started to tick upwards. And because those pressers so predominantly featured Fauci and Birx and other very qualified public officials, they were MOSTLY fantastic.

Why did a favorite TV show rock in the first season and then completely fall apart in latter seasons? If people had the answer to that we'd have great TV all the time. But there were things here that we can point to. One is that the press was already on Trump's ass during the pressers over ventilators. Can you guarantee that anyone who wants to die on a ventilator will get one to die on, Mr President. So everyone knows Trump can be counted on to EASILY take the bait and EVERYONE with any television or political sense could see that these pressers where the best thing that ever happened to his presidency. If they had been able to maintain that quality he would have been reelected in a landslide.

But he himself wasn't able to maintain that level of quality. lol. Because he can't. He's probably never maintained ANY level of quality in his life. But if he had... different election result entirely.

So he walked into some offhand remarks and questions that the press turned into gold. That was it and he folded like one of his creepy suits. I was pissed AT the press because I SAID... AS A JOKE!!!! that we're going to go from Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx to Kayleigh McEnany doing the coronavirus briefings... AND I WAS RIGHT.

I was fucking JOKING!

And then Trump lost his mind entirely, something I would have thought should have happened not long after he was sworn in, but it DID happen and the election was the thing that did it.

So that was all very interesting.

This shit now is a whole different enchilada. This is the scary American government. Trump was the clown show version we never even thought was possible. These people are for real.

There's so much crazy contradictory shit coming at us now, signed off on by the Democratic Party and fed to us by the party mouth pieces and enforcement arms on social media... who knows where it's all going to take us. The only thing going for us as far as this administration's handling of the pandemic is that, as I said, there just aren't any good answers to this shit. It is what it is and I think that no matter what was being done differently you'd just have a different set of horrible problems.

Anyway. That's about as much of a quick overview of my thinking. Don't ask for more because I can't be digging up all the examples that have brought me to these conclusions. I have other fish to fry.



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Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
Tally24



Joined: 14 Feb 2012
Posts: 2709
Location: Baton Rouge


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PostPosted: 09/04/21 1:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-06-05/cdc-some-people-did-take-bleach-to-protect-from-coronavirus


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/08/24/some-americans-are-tragically-still-drinking-bleach-as-a-coronavirus-cure/amp/

Quote:
30. That’s how many calls about consuming household disinfectants reportedly went to the New York City poison control center in the hours after Trump made his comments. That’s more than twice the number of calls the poison control center handled on disinfectant consumption a year earlier.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9544



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PostPosted: 09/04/21 8:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tally24 wrote:
Shades wrote:
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-06-05/cdc-some-people-did-take-bleach-to-protect-from-coronavirus


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/08/24/some-americans-are-tragically-still-drinking-bleach-as-a-coronavirus-cure/amp/

Quote:
30. That’s how many calls about consuming household disinfectants reportedly went to the New York City poison control center in the hours after Trump made his comments. That’s more than twice the number of calls the poison control center handled on disinfectant consumption a year earlier.


As reported, people ingested disinfectants the year before Trump made his comments. And the CDC reported that disinfectant ingestion had increased in 2020 before Trump made his comment:

Quote:
A report posted online this week by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says that cases of exposure to cleaners and disinfectants have gone up 20% from January through March 2020 compared with the same time period last year.


And missing from this reported short-term (18 hour sample size with no statement as to how much it can vary in 18 hour periods) increase is a statement that the people calling in or coming in said they were taking disinfectant specifically because they heard that the President recommended it. And with regard to him recommending it:

After Trump's comment the talking heads on CNN and MSNBC and elsewhere began saying (after first speculating that his comments would cause people to drink bleach) that Trump told people to drink bleach. He said perhaps disinfectant could be used internally to kill the coronavirus while looking at Dr. Birx - once. And they said he told people to drink bleach dozens or hundreds of times. So I would think the blame for someone drinking bleach because they heard Trump said to do it - if we can find a report of someone saying they did that - shouldn't be placed on Trump, but on the anti-Trump talking heads.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3510



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PostPosted: 09/04/21 8:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As soon as Trump hires just one smart advisor, they'll point out that his pushing the vaccine program into high gear probably saved at least half a million American lives in 2021 (and could have saved hundreds of thousands more if it weren't for the anti-vaxxers). The whole bleach ingestion question pales in comparison and even our left-wing media are going to have a hard time making it seem relevant.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15691
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 09/04/21 10:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
So I would think the blame for someone drinking bleach because they heard Trump said to do it - if we can find a report of someone saying they did that - shouldn't be placed on Trump, but on the anti-Trump talking heads.

You DO make some fantastical contortions of logic, once you set your mind to it.Laughing We could also assert another contortion of logic: perhaps we'd have had FAR MORE ingestion of bleach, if it hadn't been for the Talking Heads giving their Public Service warning against such stupidity. THEY saved us from even deadlier consequences. Wink

FrozenLVFan wrote:
As soon as Trump hires just one smart advisor, they'll point out that his pushing the vaccine program into high gear probably saved at least half a million American lives in 2021 (and could have saved hundreds of thousands more if it weren't for the anti-vaxxers). The whole bleach ingestion question pales in comparison and even our left-wing media are going to have a hard time making it seem relevant.


By "pushing the vaccine", I take it you're referring to Operation Warp Speed, which is legit. But then, after his "Big Lie" debacle consumed his brain cells, he CERTAINLY did not "push the vaccine" in a PR way. Yet another fine example of how his egotistical pathology overruled any intelligent responses. And yes, the bleach thing is hardly relevant any more.



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FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 09/04/21 11:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
tfan wrote:
So I would think the blame for someone drinking bleach because they heard Trump said to do it - if we can find a report of someone saying they did that - shouldn't be placed on Trump, but on the anti-Trump talking heads.

You DO make some fantastical contortions of logic, once you set your mind to it.Laughing We could also assert another contortion of logic: perhaps we'd have had FAR MORE ingestion of bleach, if it hadn't been for the Talking Heads giving their Public Service warning against such stupidity. THEY saved us from even deadlier consequences. Wink

FrozenLVFan wrote:
As soon as Trump hires just one smart advisor, they'll point out that his pushing the vaccine program into high gear probably saved at least half a million American lives in 2021 (and could have saved hundreds of thousands more if it weren't for the anti-vaxxers). The whole bleach ingestion question pales in comparison and even our left-wing media are going to have a hard time making it seem relevant.


By "pushing the vaccine", I take it you're referring to Operation Warp Speed, which is legit. But then, after his "Big Lie" debacle consumed his brain cells, he CERTAINLY did not "push the vaccine" in a PR way. Yet another fine example of how his egotistical pathology overruled any intelligent responses. And yes, the bleach thing is hardly relevant any more.


I would submit that the choice of "Warp Speed" as the name of the vaccine project was one of the worst COVID-related mistakes he made, giving the anti-vaxxers the opportunity to shout the vaccines were concocted too quickly and untested. A name like "Crowning Achievement" or something similar celebrating 30 years of research into mRNA vaccines may have swayed the undecided into getting the vaccines and saved a lot of lives.


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21045



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PostPosted: 09/04/21 12:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
tfan wrote:
So I would think the blame for someone drinking bleach because they heard Trump said to do it - if we can find a report of someone saying they did that - shouldn't be placed on Trump, but on the anti-Trump talking heads.

You DO make some fantastical contortions of logic, once you set your mind to it.Laughing We could also assert another contortion of logic: perhaps we'd have had FAR MORE ingestion of bleach, if it hadn't been for the Talking Heads giving their Public Service warning against such stupidity. THEY saved us from even deadlier consequences. Wink

FrozenLVFan wrote:
As soon as Trump hires just one smart advisor, they'll point out that his pushing the vaccine program into high gear probably saved at least half a million American lives in 2021 (and could have saved hundreds of thousands more if it weren't for the anti-vaxxers). The whole bleach ingestion question pales in comparison and even our left-wing media are going to have a hard time making it seem relevant.


By "pushing the vaccine", I take it you're referring to Operation Warp Speed, which is legit. But then, after his "Big Lie" debacle consumed his brain cells, he CERTAINLY did not "push the vaccine" in a PR way. Yet another fine example of how his egotistical pathology overruled any intelligent responses. And yes, the bleach thing is hardly relevant any more.


For Christ’s sake I think I agree with you. There’s one thing that really stands out about Trump and that is that when this country was going through the absolute worst of the pandemic, he was completely disengaged from any of it and had gone absolutely burn it all down bonkers over the election. And you know what’s funny, the media doesn’t really tie those two things together or rarely does in their criticisms.

It’s almost like the disengaged part is okay with them. Distraction and disengagement. These are big important features on our political landscape and meta like there’s a lot of inherent reasons why you don’t hear much about them.

We could probably see this at work even here if we cared to. And I haven’t done this so it’s a great opportunity to prove me wrong if I am wrong. But someone do a search here on Area 51 for the word ‘bleach’ and count the times in the last year and a half it was used here. And then do another search for the word ‘opioids.’



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Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/04/21 1:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
tfan wrote:
So I would think the blame for someone drinking bleach because they heard Trump said to do it - if we can find a report of someone saying they did that - shouldn't be placed on Trump, but on the anti-Trump talking heads.

You DO make some fantastical contortions of logic, once you set your mind to it.Laughing We could also assert another contortion of logic: perhaps we'd have had FAR MORE ingestion of bleach, if it hadn't been for the Talking Heads giving their Public Service warning against such stupidity. THEY saved us from even deadlier consequences. Wink


Okay the simpatico is finito. Howee. Howee. Wowee. If you TRULY even GAVE ONE BIT OF CRAP about people who would drink bleach, and aren't just using it as a very very worn out tired and now useless to the point of obsolescence political cudgel, I'd effen drink bleach myself.



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Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 09/04/21 7:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
tfan wrote:
So I would think the blame for someone drinking bleach because they heard Trump said to do it - if we can find a report of someone saying they did that - shouldn't be placed on Trump, but on the anti-Trump talking heads.


You DO make some fantastical contortions of logic, once you set your mind to it.Laughing We could also assert another contortion of logic: perhaps we'd have had FAR MORE ingestion of bleach, if it hadn't been for the Talking Heads giving their Public Service warning against such stupidity. THEY saved us from even deadlier consequences. Wink


Trump did not tell people to drink bleach (or any other liquid). He didn't tell people, including doctors, to do anything. He wondered if, "perhaps" it could be done. Your talking heads claimed he told them to drink bleach. They repeatedly lied, uncorrected by any host, on national TV. You and others will claim people are blindly and loyally following Trump. Given this characterization of "Trumpers", calling many people lying on national TV about what Trump said they should do a "Public Service warning" seems like it could be labeled a fantastical contortion of logic.

I haven't seen one reference to a named person who we know drank bleach or disinfectant (let alone died) because of anything Trump said. Or even the more likely, what talking heads lied about him saying. We have a comparison of two local 18 hour periods with no statements of how much those 18 hour periods typically vary. And 4% of respondents to a poll. A poll in which the result could be used to make the most hated president in modern history look bad, encouraging false answers. And I don't see "because Trump said so" as a poll question/result. People know that bleach and a few disinfectants will kill the virus as they were told to use it to clean surfaces. They could decide to drink disinfectant or use a "diluted solution of bleach as a mouthwash" without Trump having speculated about its use in a medical setting. And that apparently happened to some extent: "Calls to poison centers for exposure to cleaning and disinfectant supplies had already increased before Trump's comments, according to a report from April."


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15691
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 09/04/21 11:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Trump did not tell people to drink bleach (or any other liquid). He didn't tell people, including doctors, to do anything. He wondered if, "perhaps" it could be done.


His style is never to SAY, "That businesswoman is a swindling bitch". Rather, he says, "I dunno....I've heard she's unscrupulus in her dealings, and some have even called her a bitch. I dunno...." He says it all, but in a twisted way that can't be pinned on him in a direct way. You've fallen for that technique of his in his example. "....by injection inside...." is a motivating, inspirational suggestion. To more than one person who did it. And that's too many.

His direct quote:
Quote:
"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."


What he said was HIGHLY UNinformed to the point of stupid, and given his Jim Jones hold on his followers, even HE could have knew there'd be some of The Deplorables who'd try it, if HE thought it was a good idea.

No idea why you're so hung up on this screeching faux pas of his, when so many others since then have made it a distant, laughable memory. I'm done with this m'self. Cool



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