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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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 Posted: 07/26/21 9:40 am ::: |
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| West Virginia makes more sense geographically for the B1G than OKState.
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TechDawgMc
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
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| Posted: 07/26/21 10:14 am ::: |
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Was listening to Dan Patrick this morning. He seemed convinced that the SEC is making a first step in a larger plan that might all happen quickly. The possibility of the SEC reaching out to FSU, Clemson, Michigan, Ohio St., USC and Washington -- ending up with a conference somewhere between 32 and 40 teams. It would be a college football version of the NFL, isolating the top teams.
That's broad speculation but it's not beyond the realm of possibility. It would basically kill the NCAA for top schools anyway. Not sure how it would impact other sports. Also would make me wonder if the SEC would eventually tell Vandy and S. Carolina that they are no longer needed (maybe not, though, since someone needs to lose games).
Can't say I buy it entirely, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 07/26/21 10:48 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| West Virginia makes more sense geographically for the B1G than OKState. |
I have heard they want in the ACC. That makes some sense as well as it would also renew their rivalry with Pitt.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 07/26/21 11:15 am ::: |
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| TechDawgMc wrote: |
Was listening to Dan Patrick this morning. He seemed convinced that the SEC is making a first step in a larger plan that might all happen quickly. The possibility of the SEC reaching out to FSU, Clemson, Michigan, Ohio St., USC and Washington -- ending up with a conference somewhere between 32 and 40 teams. It would be a college football version of the NFL, isolating the top teams.
That's broad speculation but it's not beyond the realm of possibility. It would basically kill the NCAA for top schools anyway. Not sure how it would impact other sports. Also would make me wonder if the SEC would eventually tell Vandy and S. Carolina that they are no longer needed (maybe not, though, since someone needs to lose games).
Can't say I buy it entirely, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. |
I also saw a report that they were reaching out to Michigan, Ohio State, Florida State and Clemson. I did not see anything about USC & Washington but nothing would surprise me nowadays. That would kill my interest in college football.
I'd like to see the Big Ten get aggressive at this point. It is clear that the SEC is trying to take over the world so they need to counter, and counter in a big way. I say go after Virginia, VA Tech, North Carolina, Iowa State, Oklahoma State and Texas A&M. I know Tech and OK State don't have AAU membership, but they do have pretty darn good athletic departments and that is pretty much all that seems to matter in this round of conference realignment.
Of course, I mention those 6 assuming Notre Dame is still off the table. If you can't get all those, I could also get on board with Kansas, Boston College, Pitt, Missouri.
Anyway, things are getting interesting again.
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purduefanatic
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 07/26/21 1:13 pm ::: Re: Will the Big 12 survive? |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
With the news of OU and Texas contacting the SEC for membership leaking, neither side not actually denying it, and a meeting of Big 12 leaders, what are your opinions on the future of the Big 12? Do you see:
1. Big 12 adding 2-4 teams and attempting to create a network
2. OU and Texas leave and Big 12 recruits 2-4 other schools to form a lesser conference
3. All but 1 team(likely Baylor or TCU) is absorbed into other P5 conferences
4. Any other option you can think of
If options 2-4, where would you like to see certain teams land? I would personally like to see my Pokes land in the Big 10 if it folds or OU and Texas leave |
To answer your question, no. I was thinking maybe they could add some schools to boost the value, but this right here makes me think that's impossible and a couple more bigger, key schools will be out the door in a matter of days/hours:
| Quote: |
In 2016, Iowa State athletic director Jamie Pollard made this prescient statement: "The Big 12 exists because we have Texas and Oklahoma in the room. If we take Texas and Oklahoma out of the room, we're the Mountain West Conference."
Those words hit like a sledgehammer today. As the SEC shocked the world by preparing to assume the 'Horns and Sooners, the Big 12 lost 50% to 75% of its value, several industry sources tell CBS Sports. Their TV contracts with ESPN and Fox contain language that allows the Big 12 networks to reduce payouts if there is a loss of membership.
"When you're losing two of the most visible programs, the network has the right to come and say, 'We're going to reduce the rights by X.'" one longtime, high-profile administrator said.
That means the Big 12 deal could drop from $37 million in annual revenue to as low as $9 million per school. Considering there aren't two schools available that come close to replacing the value of Texas and Oklahoma, the Big 12 is in troubled waters to say the least. |
Unfortunately, I think the days of the Big XII are numbered.
And as someone else mentioned, I have no doubt that Mulkey knew about this and that is what prompted the move to LSU. It all makes sense.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 07/26/21 2:43 pm ::: |
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| Its not Iowa per se that will keep Iowa State out, its that Iowa St brings in $0 new revenue for the Big Ten Network and is just another mouth to feed. IF the Big Ten adds two new programs, they will be in different states from each other and not inside the current Big Ten footprint. The Big Ten network contract with the cable companies puts BTN on basic cable for everyone in a state the Big Ten has a school in and get $2 per month fees for every user, even if they never watch the BTN....... Iowa St has begged for decades to get the Big Ten's attention and never have, and never will, the economics do not work for them. A&M might be in play since the SEC dealt them WAY dirty on this deal bringing Texas, and the Aggies might bolt the SEC out of spite over it.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 07/26/21 3:08 pm ::: |
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From the cbssports link:
| Quote: |
| "honor their existing ... agreements" through the 2024-25 term. |
Does that mean they might/will/must stay through that season? I read further in the article that even if they leave by 2022, they'd each owe Quatrillions of $$$ (which is what this is all about, anyway).
I know in recent years, the Big 12 has declined on the wbb scene, but there was a time, not so long ago, when they were at or near the top of the P5 conferences in that sport. Which matters to zero of the 'deciders'.
Was the Big12 ever a Top o' the Heap conference in football? I don't ever follow that sport.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16358
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| Posted: 07/26/21 3:15 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
From the cbssports link:
| Quote: |
| "honor their existing ... agreements" through the 2024-25 term. |
Does that mean they might/will/must stay through that season? I read further in the article that even if they leave by 2022, they'd each owe Quatrillions of $$$ (which is what this is all about, anyway).
I know in recent years, the Big 12 has declined on the wbb scene, but there was a time, not so long ago, when they were at or near the top of the P5 conferences in that sport. Which matters to zero of the 'deciders'.
Was the Big12 ever a Top o' the Heap conference in football? I don't ever follow that sport. |
There were times when they were very strong. Among current B12 teams, Oklahoma has 7 NCs, Texas has 4, and TCU has 1. Former members Nebraska, A&M, and Colorado account for 7 more NCs.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 07/26/21 3:37 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
From the cbssports link:
| Quote: |
| "honor their existing ... agreements" through the 2024-25 term. |
Does that mean they might/will/must stay through that season? I read further in the article that even if they leave by 2022, they'd each owe Quatrillions of $$$ (which is what this is all about, anyway). |
I don't think there is any way they are there through 2025. In fact, I'm not even sure the Big XII will even be around by then. I think that more members are going to announce their intentions to depart and it will cease to exist.
As PUMatty answered above, the conference used to be a powerhouse. In recent times, Oklahoma has been in the college football playoffs 4 of the 7 years of its' existence and they are still a player on the national level even though they haven't made it to the title game. No other Big XII program has ever made the playoffs.
College Football Playoff Appearances:
1. Alabama, Clemson - 6
2. Ohio State, Oklahoma - 4
3. Notre Dame - 2
4. Florida State, Oregon, Michigan State, Washington, Georgia, LSU - 1
Only 11 schools have reached the playoffs: 3 from the SEC, 2 from the Big Ten, 2 from the ACC, 2 from the Pac-12 (none since '16), 1 from the Big XII and 1 independent.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 07/26/21 5:03 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| TechDawgMc wrote: |
Was listening to Dan Patrick this morning. He seemed convinced that the SEC is making a first step in a larger plan that might all happen quickly. The possibility of the SEC reaching out to FSU, Clemson, Michigan, Ohio St., USC and Washington -- ending up with a conference somewhere between 32 and 40 teams. It would be a college football version of the NFL, isolating the top teams.
That's broad speculation but it's not beyond the realm of possibility. It would basically kill the NCAA for top schools anyway. Not sure how it would impact other sports. Also would make me wonder if the SEC would eventually tell Vandy and S. Carolina that they are no longer needed (maybe not, though, since someone needs to lose games).
Can't say I buy it entirely, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. |
I also saw a report that they were reaching out to Michigan, Ohio State, Florida State and Clemson. I did not see anything about USC & Washington but nothing would surprise me nowadays. That would kill my interest in college football.
I'd like to see the Big Ten get aggressive at this point. It is clear that the SEC is trying to take over the world so they need to counter, and counter in a big way. I say go after Virginia, VA Tech, North Carolina, Iowa State, Oklahoma State and Texas A&M. I know Tech and OK State don't have AAU membership, but they do have pretty darn good athletic departments and that is pretty much all that seems to matter in this round of conference realignment.
Of course, I mention those 6 assuming Notre Dame is still off the table. If you can't get all those, I could also get on board with Kansas, Boston College, Pitt, Missouri.
Anyway, things are getting interesting again. |
So let the SEC cherry-pick the B12, and then the Big Ten can gut the ACC? Ending with a P3?
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 07/26/21 6:12 pm ::: |
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If anyone learned anything in this pandemic, it's that more organizations should be geographically based - not less. Atlantic Coast should have teams with an Atlantic Coastline, same for Pacific Coast and the states should be continguous (not Florida in ACC but Ga, SC in SEC). Southeast is also fairly well delineated and could include southern teams on the Atlantic Coast. BIG would be for eastern landlocked states and MW for western landlocked states. In constructing conferences, all schools are in states contiguous to the others (obvious exceptions Hawaii and Alaska).
Also as one who benefits from an in state rivalry (Duke/UNC), it does not make sense (to me) to have natural school rivals in different conferences. Play up every natural rivalry - which are almost all geographically based.
Sounds like they're creating a new division, along with Divisions 1,2,3, we'd have Division P (powerhouse).
Of course, I don't follow any of the football/$$ conversations at all. The little bit I've read here makes no pandemic sense at all. And anyone who thinks this is the last pandemic just isn't paying attention.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16358
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| Posted: 07/27/21 10:45 am ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| If anyone learned anything in this pandemic, it's that more organizations should be geographically based - not less. Atlantic Coast should have teams with an Atlantic Coastline, same for Pacific Coast and the states should be continguous (not Florida in ACC but Ga, SC in SEC). Southeast is also fairly well delineated and could include southern teams on the Atlantic Coast. BIG would be for eastern landlocked states and MW for western landlocked states. In constructing conferences, all schools are in states contiguous to the others (obvious exceptions Hawaii and Alaska). |
Just one point that Georgia and SC are also part of the ACC (Clemson and Georgia Tech have entered the chat).
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 07/27/21 12:35 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| If anyone learned anything in this pandemic, it's that more organizations should be geographically based - not less. Atlantic Coast should have teams with an Atlantic Coastline, same for Pacific Coast and the states should be continguous (not Florida in ACC but Ga, SC in SEC). Southeast is also fairly well delineated and could include southern teams on the Atlantic Coast. BIG would be for eastern landlocked states and MW for western landlocked states. In constructing conferences, all schools are in states contiguous to the others (obvious exceptions Hawaii and Alaska). |
Just one point that Georgia and SC are also part of the ACC (Clemson and Georgia Tech have entered the chat). |
Wait, what? You are confusing the issue with itself.
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eibln
Joined: 26 Apr 2021
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| Posted: 07/28/21 4:28 am ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| Its not Iowa per se that will keep Iowa State out, its that Iowa St brings in $0 new revenue for the Big Ten Network and is just another mouth to feed. IF the Big Ten adds two new programs, they will be in different states from each other and not inside the current Big Ten footprint. The Big Ten network contract with the cable companies puts BTN on basic cable for everyone in a state the Big Ten has a school in and get $2 per month fees for every user, even if they never watch the BTN....... Iowa St has begged for decades to get the Big Ten's attention and never have, and never will, the economics do not work for them. A&M might be in play since the SEC dealt them WAY dirty on this deal bringing Texas, and the Aggies might bolt the SEC out of spite over it. |
Yes Texas A&M is upset at the SEC right now, but it likely won’t last long. The SEC will give the Aggies something to make up for all this. The SEC doesn’t want to lose Texas A&M. I don’t even think Texas A&M would leave the conference, especially voluntarily.
I would like to give a little insight to what I know regarding the Big Ten and what they are looking at doing right now. It is correct that Iowa State would likely bring in little to know revenue in terms of the Big Ten Network. But right now adding Iowa State especially in Football would a big win for the conference and Iowa State. This might finally bring some stable competition to the West of the Big Ten. The Big Ten will likely make good enough money to make bring in Iowa State worth it. It doesn’t seem like Iowa would be the ones to keep Iowa State from joining the conference, as it may be a win for the Hawkeyes if the Cyclones join the conference.
Kansas might be the biggest question. They haven’t competed in football in years, and the program has not brought in a ton of revenue. Kansas in basketball would be a fantastic addition to the toughest men’s basketball conference in the country. Outside of Basketball, there isn’t much of an upside to KU athletics and the State of Kansas really doesn’t bring in a whole lot of revenue in terms of TV.
Iowa State would likely be the first to make it into the Big Ten before Kansas. Out of what I have heard from friends in the Big Ten offices is that the Big Ten is looking at other teams outside of ISU and KU from the ACC and the PAC-12.
If the Big Ten does add any schools, they will likely have to be in AAU (American Association of Universities). So that would rule out Oklahoma State as well as most of the rest of the Big 12 outside of Kansas and Iowa State who are both in AAU.
Here is the main concerns if you are a fan of team in the Big Ten or just the conference in general. If the Big Ten doesn’t add any schools in this realignment cycle especially if they don’t choose to jump at any schools like Iowa State, Kansas, Pittsburgh or any PAC-12 school. The Big Ten will likely get left behind and may be the next conference to dissolve in the next 20 years. Failing to add any teams will likely make the Big Ten the smallest power conference with 14 teams when this all said and done. And that would be just terrible. It seems like most athletic departments in the Big Ten would like the idea of adding more teams (especially Ohio State). The issue is the big dogs who are ruining our beloved Big Ten. The main big dog being Kevin Warren the Big Ten commissioner. Warren does not seem well liked among a lot of the Big Ten athletic departments but he is buddy buddy with several of the university presidents. Warren is not experienced enough for the position he is in. He is making poor decisions that could likely run the conference into the ground. Who would of thought that Big Ten fans would be longing for the days of former commissioner Jim Delany, at least Delany could make sure the conference stays on course, and allow it to expand especially when he helped lead the last few big expansions for the Big Ten. Delany also would have been on board with playing football last fall and it wouldn’t have taken a fight from Ohio State just to play. Warren could cost the Big Ten any chance at expanding. Warren in my opinion should never have gotten the chance to be Big Ten commissioner let alone be the one making most of these decisions.
The Big Ten needs to expand if they don’t want to be the next to be left behind like the Big 12.
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eibln
Joined: 26 Apr 2021
Posts: 101
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| Posted: 07/28/21 4:28 am ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| Its not Iowa per se that will keep Iowa State out, its that Iowa St brings in $0 new revenue for the Big Ten Network and is just another mouth to feed. IF the Big Ten adds two new programs, they will be in different states from each other and not inside the current Big Ten footprint. The Big Ten network contract with the cable companies puts BTN on basic cable for everyone in a state the Big Ten has a school in and get $2 per month fees for every user, even if they never watch the BTN....... Iowa St has begged for decades to get the Big Ten's attention and never have, and never will, the economics do not work for them. A&M might be in play since the SEC dealt them WAY dirty on this deal bringing Texas, and the Aggies might bolt the SEC out of spite over it. |
Yes Texas A&M is upset at the SEC right now, but it likely won’t last long. The SEC will give the Aggies something to make up for all this. The SEC doesn’t want to lose Texas A&M. I don’t even think Texas A&M would leave the conference, especially voluntarily.
I would like to give a little insight to what I know regarding the Big Ten and what they are looking at doing right now. It is correct that Iowa State would likely bring in little to know revenue in terms of the Big Ten Network. But right now adding Iowa State especially in Football would a big win for the conference and Iowa State. This might finally bring some stable competition to the West of the Big Ten. The Big Ten will likely make good enough money to make bring in Iowa State worth it. It doesn’t seem like Iowa would be the ones to keep Iowa State from joining the conference, as it may be a win for the Hawkeyes if the Cyclones join the conference.
Kansas might be the biggest question. They haven’t competed in football in years, and the program has not brought in a ton of revenue. Kansas in basketball would be a fantastic addition to the toughest men’s basketball conference in the country. Outside of Basketball, there isn’t much of an upside to KU athletics and the State of Kansas really doesn’t bring in a whole lot of revenue in terms of TV.
Iowa State would likely be the first to make it into the Big Ten before Kansas. Out of what I have heard from friends in the Big Ten offices is that the Big Ten is looking at other teams outside of ISU and KU from the ACC and the PAC-12.
If the Big Ten does add any schools, they will likely have to be in AAU (American Association of Universities). So that would rule out Oklahoma State as well as most of the rest of the Big 12 outside of Kansas and Iowa State who are both in AAU.
Here is the main concerns if you are a fan of team in the Big Ten or just the conference in general. If the Big Ten doesn’t add any schools in this realignment cycle especially if they don’t choose to jump at any schools like Iowa State, Kansas, Pittsburgh or any PAC-12 school. The Big Ten will likely get left behind and may be the next conference to dissolve in the next 20 years. Failing to add any teams will likely make the Big Ten the smallest power conference with 14 teams when this all said and done. And that would be just terrible. It seems like most athletic departments in the Big Ten would like the idea of adding more teams (especially Ohio State). The issue is the big dogs who are ruining our beloved Big Ten. The main big dog being Kevin Warren the Big Ten commissioner. Warren does not seem well liked among a lot of the Big Ten athletic departments but he is buddy buddy with several of the university presidents. Warren is not experienced enough for the position he is in. He is making poor decisions that could likely run the conference into the ground. Who would of thought that Big Ten fans would be longing for the days of former commissioner Jim Delany, at least Delany could make sure the conference stays on course, and allow it to expand especially when he helped lead the last few big expansions for the Big Ten. Delany also would have been on board with playing football last fall and it wouldn’t have taken a fight from Ohio State just to play. Warren could cost the Big Ten any chance at expanding. Warren in my opinion should never have gotten the chance to be Big Ten commissioner let alone be the one making most of these decisions.
The Big Ten needs to expand if they don’t want to be the next to be left behind like the Big 12.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 602
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| Posted: 07/28/21 8:53 am ::: |
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| eibln wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| Its not Iowa per se that will keep Iowa State out, its that Iowa St brings in $0 new revenue for the Big Ten Network and is just another mouth to feed. IF the Big Ten adds two new programs, they will be in different states from each other and not inside the current Big Ten footprint. The Big Ten network contract with the cable companies puts BTN on basic cable for everyone in a state the Big Ten has a school in and get $2 per month fees for every user, even if they never watch the BTN....... Iowa St has begged for decades to get the Big Ten's attention and never have, and never will, the economics do not work for them. A&M might be in play since the SEC dealt them WAY dirty on this deal bringing Texas, and the Aggies might bolt the SEC out of spite over it. |
Yes Texas A&M is upset at the SEC right now, but it likely won’t last long. The SEC will give the Aggies something to make up for all this. The SEC doesn’t want to lose Texas A&M. I don’t even think Texas A&M would leave the conference, especially voluntarily.
I would like to give a little insight to what I know regarding the Big Ten and what they are looking at doing right now. It is correct that Iowa State would likely bring in little to know revenue in terms of the Big Ten Network. But right now adding Iowa State especially in Football would a big win for the conference and Iowa State. This might finally bring some stable competition to the West of the Big Ten. The Big Ten will likely make good enough money to make bring in Iowa State worth it. It doesn’t seem like Iowa would be the ones to keep Iowa State from joining the conference, as it may be a win for the Hawkeyes if the Cyclones join the conference.
Kansas might be the biggest question. They haven’t competed in football in years, and the program has not brought in a ton of revenue. Kansas in basketball would be a fantastic addition to the toughest men’s basketball conference in the country. Outside of Basketball, there isn’t much of an upside to KU athletics and the State of Kansas really doesn’t bring in a whole lot of revenue in terms of TV.
Iowa State would likely be the first to make it into the Big Ten before Kansas. Out of what I have heard from friends in the Big Ten offices is that the Big Ten is looking at other teams outside of ISU and KU from the ACC and the PAC-12.
If the Big Ten does add any schools, they will likely have to be in AAU (American Association of Universities). So that would rule out Oklahoma State as well as most of the rest of the Big 12 outside of Kansas and Iowa State who are both in AAU.
Here is the main concerns if you are a fan of team in the Big Ten or just the conference in general. If the Big Ten doesn’t add any schools in this realignment cycle especially if they don’t choose to jump at any schools like Iowa State, Kansas, Pittsburgh or any PAC-12 school. The Big Ten will likely get left behind and may be the next conference to dissolve in the next 20 years. Failing to add any teams will likely make the Big Ten the smallest power conference with 14 teams when this all said and done. And that would be just terrible. It seems like most athletic departments in the Big Ten would like the idea of adding more teams (especially Ohio State). The issue is the big dogs who are ruining our beloved Big Ten. The main big dog being Kevin Warren the Big Ten commissioner. Warren does not seem well liked among a lot of the Big Ten athletic departments but he is buddy buddy with several of the university presidents. Warren is not experienced enough for the position he is in. He is making poor decisions that could likely run the conference into the ground. Who would of thought that Big Ten fans would be longing for the days of former commissioner Jim Delany, at least Delany could make sure the conference stays on course, and allow it to expand especially when he helped lead the last few big expansions for the Big Ten. Delany also would have been on board with playing football last fall and it wouldn’t have taken a fight from Ohio State just to play. Warren could cost the Big Ten any chance at expanding. Warren in my opinion should never have gotten the chance to be Big Ten commissioner let alone be the one making most of these decisions.
The Big Ten needs to expand if they don’t want to be the next to be left behind like the Big 12. |
First, I think you are completely ignoring A&M's massive complex about all things UTexas and how much they truly loved getting out of the 12 and away from hated "big brother"....... I would not be the least bit surprised to see A&M bolt from the SEC for ANY other conference at this point, because obviously the SEC doesn't give a rats ass about them as a school to have done this for a year behind their backs. It would be like your wife telling you she has been cheating on you for a year, and now her bf(coincidentally your hs rival) is moving in with you guys and sharing your bed.......
Second, EVERY move the Big has made in expansion has been to add a new state. Iowa State brings nothing monetarily to the table, and football competitiveness is not in the top 5 reasons for expansion at least for the Big Ten.
Third, the Big Ten already approached OkSt, while ignoring the pleas once again from Iowa St and KU..... so obviously with Nebraska being dropped from the AAU there is precedence for having another non-AAU school or more in the conference. The only rub for the Big Ten remaining to overcome is the contiguous states conceit they have kept up to this point.
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Michael
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Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 1900
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| Posted: 07/28/21 9:42 am ::: |
Reply |
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| Howee wrote: |
From the cbssports link:
| Quote: |
| "honor their existing ... agreements" through the 2024-25 term. |
Does that mean they might/will/must stay through that season? I read further in the article that even if they leave by 2022, they'd each owe Quatrillions of $$$ (which is what this is all about, anyway).
I know in recent years, the Big 12 has declined on the wbb scene, but there was a time, not so long ago, when they were at or near the top of the P5 conferences in that sport. Which matters to zero of the 'deciders'.
Was the Big12 ever a Top o' the Heap conference in football? I don't ever follow that sport. |
The Big 12 grew out of what was formerly the Big 8 in 1996, when the Southwest Conference dissolved. Four Texas schools (Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, and Baylor) of the SWC joined the pre-existing 8 of the Big 8, and effectively the Big 8 Conference ceased to exist: The Big 12 doesn't claim the Big 8's history - they essentially "came to be" as a conference in 1996, even though all of the Big 8 initially moved into the Big 12.
Confusing? The Big Three in Football in the Big 8 were Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Missouri in regards of conference titles - although Mizzou never won a national title, the other two claimed 10 between them, with former member Colorado winning a lone title in 1990. But from the 1970s into the 1990s both Nebraska with Tom Osbourne and Oklahoma with Barry Switzer were regularly among the national title contenders in the nation.
When the Big 8 became the Big 12, Texas asserted it's dominance over the conference quickly. The Big 12 hasn't been around but for only 25 years, and Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas respectively have won one (1) national CFB championship each, in 1997, 2000, and 2005.
Colorado and Nebraska left the Big 12 in 2011 for the Pac 12 and B1G respectively, then A&M and Missouri left in 2012 for the SEC. They replaced the latter two schools with West Virginia and TCU, but beginning in 2012 the Big-12 has consisted of only ten (10) schools, but they can't call themselves the Big 10 for obvious reasons.....
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 07/28/21 12:49 pm ::: |
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| I don't think the Big Ten is really in any danger of going away considering the amount of revenue that they distribute to each school. However, I do agree that they need to be proactive and aggressive right now as it is pretty apparent that the SEC is going after schools they want. I do wonder if the ACC might be a little vulnerable right now as they are pretty far behind both the SEC and Big Ten when it comes to revenue distribution.
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eibln
Joined: 26 Apr 2021
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| Posted: 07/28/21 6:55 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| eibln wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| Its not Iowa per se that will keep Iowa State out, its that Iowa St brings in $0 new revenue for the Big Ten Network and is just another mouth to feed. IF the Big Ten adds two new programs, they will be in different states from each other and not inside the current Big Ten footprint. The Big Ten network contract with the cable companies puts BTN on basic cable for everyone in a state the Big Ten has a school in and get $2 per month fees for every user, even if they never watch the BTN....... Iowa St has begged for decades to get the Big Ten's attention and never have, and never will, the economics do not work for them. A&M might be in play since the SEC dealt them WAY dirty on this deal bringing Texas, and the Aggies might bolt the SEC out of spite over it. |
Yes Texas A&M is upset at the SEC right now, but it likely won’t last long. The SEC will give the Aggies something to make up for all this. The SEC doesn’t want to lose Texas A&M. I don’t even think Texas A&M would leave the conference, especially voluntarily.
I would like to give a little insight to what I know regarding the Big Ten and what they are looking at doing right now. It is correct that Iowa State would likely bring in little to know revenue in terms of the Big Ten Network. But right now adding Iowa State especially in Football would a big win for the conference and Iowa State. This might finally bring some stable competition to the West of the Big Ten. The Big Ten will likely make good enough money to make bring in Iowa State worth it. It doesn’t seem like Iowa would be the ones to keep Iowa State from joining the conference, as it may be a win for the Hawkeyes if the Cyclones join the conference.
Kansas might be the biggest question. They haven’t competed in football in years, and the program has not brought in a ton of revenue. Kansas in basketball would be a fantastic addition to the toughest men’s basketball conference in the country. Outside of Basketball, there isn’t much of an upside to KU athletics and the State of Kansas really doesn’t bring in a whole lot of revenue in terms of TV.
Iowa State would likely be the first to make it into the Big Ten before Kansas. Out of what I have heard from friends in the Big Ten offices is that the Big Ten is looking at other teams outside of ISU and KU from the ACC and the PAC-12.
If the Big Ten does add any schools, they will likely have to be in AAU (American Association of Universities). So that would rule out Oklahoma State as well as most of the rest of the Big 12 outside of Kansas and Iowa State who are both in AAU.
Here is the main concerns if you are a fan of team in the Big Ten or just the conference in general. If the Big Ten doesn’t add any schools in this realignment cycle especially if they don’t choose to jump at any schools like Iowa State, Kansas, Pittsburgh or any PAC-12 school. The Big Ten will likely get left behind and may be the next conference to dissolve in the next 20 years. Failing to add any teams will likely make the Big Ten the smallest power conference with 14 teams when this all said and done. And that would be just terrible. It seems like most athletic departments in the Big Ten would like the idea of adding more teams (especially Ohio State). The issue is the big dogs who are ruining our beloved Big Ten. The main big dog being Kevin Warren the Big Ten commissioner. Warren does not seem well liked among a lot of the Big Ten athletic departments but he is buddy buddy with several of the university presidents. Warren is not experienced enough for the position he is in. He is making poor decisions that could likely run the conference into the ground. Who would of thought that Big Ten fans would be longing for the days of former commissioner Jim Delany, at least Delany could make sure the conference stays on course, and allow it to expand especially when he helped lead the last few big expansions for the Big Ten. Delany also would have been on board with playing football last fall and it wouldn’t have taken a fight from Ohio State just to play. Warren could cost the Big Ten any chance at expanding. Warren in my opinion should never have gotten the chance to be Big Ten commissioner let alone be the one making most of these decisions.
The Big Ten needs to expand if they don’t want to be the next to be left behind like the Big 12. |
First, I think you are completely ignoring A&M's massive complex about all things UTexas and how much they truly loved getting out of the 12 and away from hated "big brother"....... I would not be the least bit surprised to see A&M bolt from the SEC for ANY other conference at this point, because obviously the SEC doesn't give a rats ass about them as a school to have done this for a year behind their backs. It would be like your wife telling you she has been cheating on you for a year, and now her bf(coincidentally your hs rival) is moving in with you guys and sharing your bed.......
Second, EVERY move the Big has made in expansion has been to add a new state. Iowa State brings nothing monetarily to the table, and football competitiveness is not in the top 5 reasons for expansion at least for the Big Ten.
Third, the Big Ten already approached OkSt, while ignoring the pleas once again from Iowa St and KU..... so obviously with Nebraska being dropped from the AAU there is precedence for having another non-AAU school or more in the conference. The only rub for the Big Ten remaining to overcome is the contiguous states conceit they have kept up to this point. |
Yes I might be ignoring A&M’s dislike for Texas. But again, I don’t think they will bolt from the SEC. The money wouldn’t be the same anywhere else unless they came to the Big Ten which is unlikely.
The Big Ten has tried to add more states, yes, but, adding Iowa State would be beneficial to the conference especially too Iowa because it could open a non-conference game for the Hawkeyes. As well as, bring in more money to the conference. And yes, competitiveness in football will and likely is a top 5 priority in the Big Ten considering that’s the money maker.
The Big Ten never approached Oklahoma State. OSU approached the Big Ten and never got a straight forward answer. And the Big Ten was angry after Nebraska wasn’t a AAU school after joining. Being an AAU school is a top priority.
No the Big Ten may not dissolve but it is very possible that they will get left behind in most conference realignment discussions in the future if they refuse any teams here.
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eibln
Joined: 26 Apr 2021
Posts: 101
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| Posted: 07/28/21 6:55 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Michael wrote: |
| eibln wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| Its not Iowa per se that will keep Iowa State out, its that Iowa St brings in $0 new revenue for the Big Ten Network and is just another mouth to feed. IF the Big Ten adds two new programs, they will be in different states from each other and not inside the current Big Ten footprint. The Big Ten network contract with the cable companies puts BTN on basic cable for everyone in a state the Big Ten has a school in and get $2 per month fees for every user, even if they never watch the BTN....... Iowa St has begged for decades to get the Big Ten's attention and never have, and never will, the economics do not work for them. A&M might be in play since the SEC dealt them WAY dirty on this deal bringing Texas, and the Aggies might bolt the SEC out of spite over it. |
Yes Texas A&M is upset at the SEC right now, but it likely won’t last long. The SEC will give the Aggies something to make up for all this. The SEC doesn’t want to lose Texas A&M. I don’t even think Texas A&M would leave the conference, especially voluntarily.
I would like to give a little insight to what I know regarding the Big Ten and what they are looking at doing right now. It is correct that Iowa State would likely bring in little to know revenue in terms of the Big Ten Network. But right now adding Iowa State especially in Football would a big win for the conference and Iowa State. This might finally bring some stable competition to the West of the Big Ten. The Big Ten will likely make good enough money to make bring in Iowa State worth it. It doesn’t seem like Iowa would be the ones to keep Iowa State from joining the conference, as it may be a win for the Hawkeyes if the Cyclones join the conference.
Kansas might be the biggest question. They haven’t competed in football in years, and the program has not brought in a ton of revenue. Kansas in basketball would be a fantastic addition to the toughest men’s basketball conference in the country. Outside of Basketball, there isn’t much of an upside to KU athletics and the State of Kansas really doesn’t bring in a whole lot of revenue in terms of TV.
Iowa State would likely be the first to make it into the Big Ten before Kansas. Out of what I have heard from friends in the Big Ten offices is that the Big Ten is looking at other teams outside of ISU and KU from the ACC and the PAC-12.
If the Big Ten does add any schools, they will likely have to be in AAU (American Association of Universities). So that would rule out Oklahoma State as well as most of the rest of the Big 12 outside of Kansas and Iowa State who are both in AAU.
Here is the main concerns if you are a fan of team in the Big Ten or just the conference in general. If the Big Ten doesn’t add any schools in this realignment cycle especially if they don’t choose to jump at any schools like Iowa State, Kansas, Pittsburgh or any PAC-12 school. The Big Ten will likely get left behind and may be the next conference to dissolve in the next 20 years. Failing to add any teams will likely make the Big Ten the smallest power conference with 14 teams when this all said and done. And that would be just terrible. It seems like most athletic departments in the Big Ten would like the idea of adding more teams (especially Ohio State). The issue is the big dogs who are ruining our beloved Big Ten. The main big dog being Kevin Warren the Big Ten commissioner. Warren does not seem well liked among a lot of the Big Ten athletic departments but he is buddy buddy with several of the university presidents. Warren is not experienced enough for the position he is in. He is making poor decisions that could likely run the conference into the ground. Who would of thought that Big Ten fans would be longing for the days of former commissioner Jim Delany, at least Delany could make sure the conference stays on course, and allow it to expand especially when he helped lead the last few big expansions for the Big Ten. Delany also would have been on board with playing football last fall and it wouldn’t have taken a fight from Ohio State just to play. Warren could cost the Big Ten any chance at expanding. Warren in my opinion should never have gotten the chance to be Big Ten commissioner let alone be the one making most of these decisions.
The Big Ten needs to expand if they don’t want to be the next to be left behind like the Big 12. |
First, I think you are completely ignoring A&M's massive complex about all things UTexas and how much they truly loved getting out of the 12 and away from hated "big brother"....... I would not be the least bit surprised to see A&M bolt from the SEC for ANY other conference at this point, because obviously the SEC doesn't give a rats ass about them as a school to have done this for a year behind their backs. It would be like your wife telling you she has been cheating on you for a year, and now her bf(coincidentally your hs rival) is moving in with you guys and sharing your bed.......
Second, EVERY move the Big has made in expansion has been to add a new state. Iowa State brings nothing monetarily to the table, and football competitiveness is not in the top 5 reasons for expansion at least for the Big Ten.
Third, the Big Ten already approached OkSt, while ignoring the pleas once again from Iowa St and KU..... so obviously with Nebraska being dropped from the AAU there is precedence for having another non-AAU school or more in the conference. The only rub for the Big Ten remaining to overcome is the contiguous states conceit they have kept up to this point. |
Yes I might be ignoring A&M’s dislike for Texas. But again, I don’t think they will bolt from the SEC. The money wouldn’t be the same anywhere else unless they came to the Big Ten which is unlikely.
The Big Ten has tried to add more states, yes, but, adding Iowa State would be beneficial to the conference especially too Iowa because it could open a non-conference game for the Hawkeyes. As well as, bring in more money to the conference. And yes, competitiveness in football will and likely is a top 5 priority in the Big Ten considering that’s the money maker.
The Big Ten never approached Oklahoma State. OSU approached the Big Ten and never got a straight forward answer. And the Big Ten was angry after Nebraska wasn’t a AAU school after joining. Being an AAU school is a top priority.
No the Big Ten may not dissolve but it is very possible that they will get left behind in most conference realignment discussions in the future if they refuse any teams here.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8947
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 602
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| Posted: 07/29/21 6:58 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| eibln wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| eibln wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| Its not Iowa per se that will keep Iowa State out, its that Iowa St brings in $0 new revenue for the Big Ten Network and is just another mouth to feed. IF the Big Ten adds two new programs, they will be in different states from each other and not inside the current Big Ten footprint. The Big Ten network contract with the cable companies puts BTN on basic cable for everyone in a state the Big Ten has a school in and get $2 per month fees for every user, even if they never watch the BTN....... Iowa St has begged for decades to get the Big Ten's attention and never have, and never will, the economics do not work for them. A&M might be in play since the SEC dealt them WAY dirty on this deal bringing Texas, and the Aggies might bolt the SEC out of spite over it. |
Yes Texas A&M is upset at the SEC right now, but it likely won’t last long. The SEC will give the Aggies something to make up for all this. The SEC doesn’t want to lose Texas A&M. I don’t even think Texas A&M would leave the conference, especially voluntarily.
I would like to give a little insight to what I know regarding the Big Ten and what they are looking at doing right now. It is correct that Iowa State would likely bring in little to know revenue in terms of the Big Ten Network. But right now adding Iowa State especially in Football would a big win for the conference and Iowa State. This might finally bring some stable competition to the West of the Big Ten. The Big Ten will likely make good enough money to make bring in Iowa State worth it. It doesn’t seem like Iowa would be the ones to keep Iowa State from joining the conference, as it may be a win for the Hawkeyes if the Cyclones join the conference.
Kansas might be the biggest question. They haven’t competed in football in years, and the program has not brought in a ton of revenue. Kansas in basketball would be a fantastic addition to the toughest men’s basketball conference in the country. Outside of Basketball, there isn’t much of an upside to KU athletics and the State of Kansas really doesn’t bring in a whole lot of revenue in terms of TV.
Iowa State would likely be the first to make it into the Big Ten before Kansas. Out of what I have heard from friends in the Big Ten offices is that the Big Ten is looking at other teams outside of ISU and KU from the ACC and the PAC-12.
If the Big Ten does add any schools, they will likely have to be in AAU (American Association of Universities). So that would rule out Oklahoma State as well as most of the rest of the Big 12 outside of Kansas and Iowa State who are both in AAU.
Here is the main concerns if you are a fan of team in the Big Ten or just the conference in general. If the Big Ten doesn’t add any schools in this realignment cycle especially if they don’t choose to jump at any schools like Iowa State, Kansas, Pittsburgh or any PAC-12 school. The Big Ten will likely get left behind and may be the next conference to dissolve in the next 20 years. Failing to add any teams will likely make the Big Ten the smallest power conference with 14 teams when this all said and done. And that would be just terrible. It seems like most athletic departments in the Big Ten would like the idea of adding more teams (especially Ohio State). The issue is the big dogs who are ruining our beloved Big Ten. The main big dog being Kevin Warren the Big Ten commissioner. Warren does not seem well liked among a lot of the Big Ten athletic departments but he is buddy buddy with several of the university presidents. Warren is not experienced enough for the position he is in. He is making poor decisions that could likely run the conference into the ground. Who would of thought that Big Ten fans would be longing for the days of former commissioner Jim Delany, at least Delany could make sure the conference stays on course, and allow it to expand especially when he helped lead the last few big expansions for the Big Ten. Delany also would have been on board with playing football last fall and it wouldn’t have taken a fight from Ohio State just to play. Warren could cost the Big Ten any chance at expanding. Warren in my opinion should never have gotten the chance to be Big Ten commissioner let alone be the one making most of these decisions.
The Big Ten needs to expand if they don’t want to be the next to be left behind like the Big 12. |
First, I think you are completely ignoring A&M's massive complex about all things UTexas and how much they truly loved getting out of the 12 and away from hated "big brother"....... I would not be the least bit surprised to see A&M bolt from the SEC for ANY other conference at this point, because obviously the SEC doesn't give a rats ass about them as a school to have done this for a year behind their backs. It would be like your wife telling you she has been cheating on you for a year, and now her bf(coincidentally your hs rival) is moving in with you guys and sharing your bed.......
Second, EVERY move the Big has made in expansion has been to add a new state. Iowa State brings nothing monetarily to the table, and football competitiveness is not in the top 5 reasons for expansion at least for the Big Ten.
Third, the Big Ten already approached OkSt, while ignoring the pleas once again from Iowa St and KU..... so obviously with Nebraska being dropped from the AAU there is precedence for having another non-AAU school or more in the conference. The only rub for the Big Ten remaining to overcome is the contiguous states conceit they have kept up to this point. |
Yes I might be ignoring A&M’s dislike for Texas. But again, I don’t think they will bolt from the SEC. The money wouldn’t be the same anywhere else unless they came to the Big Ten which is unlikely.
The Big Ten has tried to add more states, yes, but, adding Iowa State would be beneficial to the conference especially too Iowa because it could open a non-conference game for the Hawkeyes. As well as, bring in more money to the conference. And yes, competitiveness in football will and likely is a top 5 priority in the Big Ten considering that’s the money maker.
The Big Ten never approached Oklahoma State. OSU approached the Big Ten and never got a straight forward answer. And the Big Ten was angry after Nebraska wasn’t a AAU school after joining. Being an AAU school is a top priority.
No the Big Ten may not dissolve but it is very possible that they will get left behind in most conference realignment discussions in the future if they refuse any teams here. |
NO, no no no..... the money maker for the Big Ten is the BTN, that is why it makes more and distributes more money to each of its schools than any other conference, including the SEC. Explain to me how Iowa St makes the Big Ten more money compared to OkSt, WVU, KU, and certainly A&M. The fact that A&M would make MORE money going to the Big Ten and once again be able to tell UTexas to go to hell is a massive plus for them.
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Michael
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 07/29/21 10:44 am ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| NO, no no no..... the money maker for the Big Ten is the BTN, that is why it makes more and distributes more money to each of its schools than any other conference, including the SEC. Explain to me how Iowa St makes the Big Ten more money compared to OkSt, WVU, KU, and certainly A&M. The fact that A&M would make MORE money going to the Big Ten and once again be able to tell UTexas to go to hell is a massive plus for them. |
As it stands today, the Big Ten doles out more money to each school. With Texas & Oklahoma, the SEC will get a huge increase in their TV deal, which is way under market value today, and will easily surpass the Big Ten. With that increase, the SEC is going to be in a very strong position to go after the football powers, such as Clemson, Florida State, Ohio State, Michigan, etc. Texas A&M isn't stupid and realizes the massive payday that awaits the SEC in a few years when they can negotiate a new deal.
And as far as the Big XII submitting the letter to ESPN, I love it. They have been at the root and forefront of so many moves in the past that I love the fact they are finally getting called out on it. I have no doubts that they are behind the OU/Texas move and helped to facilitate those talks. They have rights to the SEC as well as to the AAC, which is why they are trying to get some of the remaining Big XII schools to join that league to give it more value. I really can't stand ESPN and try not to watch or click anything associated with them but it's hard at times.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 602
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| Posted: 07/29/21 11:36 am ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| NO, no no no..... the money maker for the Big Ten is the BTN, that is why it makes more and distributes more money to each of its schools than any other conference, including the SEC. Explain to me how Iowa St makes the Big Ten more money compared to OkSt, WVU, KU, and certainly A&M. The fact that A&M would make MORE money going to the Big Ten and once again be able to tell UTexas to go to hell is a massive plus for them. |
As it stands today, the Big Ten doles out more money to each school. With Texas & Oklahoma, the SEC will get a huge increase in their TV deal, which is way under market value today, and will easily surpass the Big Ten. With that increase, the SEC is going to be in a very strong position to go after the football powers, such as Clemson, Florida State, Ohio State, Michigan, etc. Texas A&M isn't stupid and realizes the massive payday that awaits the SEC in a few years when they can negotiate a new deal.
And as far as the Big XII submitting the letter to ESPN, I love it. They have been at the root and forefront of so many moves in the past that I love the fact they are finally getting called out on it. I have no doubts that they are behind the OU/Texas move and helped to facilitate those talks. They have rights to the SEC as well as to the AAC, which is why they are trying to get some of the remaining Big XII schools to join that league to give it more value. I really can't stand ESPN and try not to watch or click anything associated with them but it's hard at times. |
And if A&M brought all the cable subscribers in Texas that $2 a month to the Big Ten, how many millions a month would that bring in? The SEC may well double their football TV deal with ESPN after this move, but that only brings them even with the Big Ten.... If the Big adds two more schools/states, they will easily still outdistance the SEC in revenue produced even if one of them isn't Texas, but adding a Texas school would be HUGE in terms on additional revenue.
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Michael
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