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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 06/06/21 8:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Facebook will no longer remove posts that suggest the coronavirus was man made. And I have to say, call me an idiot, but until recently I had NO IDEA that Facebook or Twitter was removing user comments or tweets that supported or suggested the possibility of a lab leak. And I guess I never really gave it that much thought even in the last few weeks when I first heard about it as the possibility of a lab leak has become more openly discussed. But seeing an actual statement by Facebook that admits to that being their policy prior to this moment makes it very real for me and I have to say… WHAT THE FUCK?

They were actually doing this? While millions were dying and millions more had their lives all but destroyed free people were not able to exchange their thoughts and concerns about how this might have come to pass? I find that to be incredibly problematic. Wow. And now it turns out that it could have actually happened the very way that free people may have wanted to explore conversationally on social media but would have and did find themselves either censored or even banned from the platforms?

How in the fuck did we end up with this world we’re living in? After the 20th century’s horrors, the warnings of Orwell and countless others? The Hunger Games? WHAT THE FUCK?!?


Jimmy Dore did a video on the censorship/bans. In January some high up French official and German Chancellor Angela Merkel both criticized twitter for banning Trump. And Bernie Sanders had a statement which criticized it but in his softball way - he was not comfortable with it.

They have been using "danger" or "danger to the community" as reasons for censorship, but I don't know what term they used to censor the lab leak posts. If the lab leak theory was tied in with a claim that Trump (not the NIH/Fauci as appears to have happened) had gone around government rules and secretly funded the lab (Wuhangate) I think they would still be up.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8571



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PostPosted: 07/02/21 9:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:

In fairness, Fauci's sole job is necessarily tunnel-visioned -- namely, to give conservative advice on minimizing infectious diseases, and not to factor in harms to the economy, business, mental health or education, or effects on non-infectious diseases. It's the job of executive branch politicians to weigh all these competing factors in Covid and other emergencies. But the executive branches have so defaulted and deferred to Fauci and left so much public communication to him, that his tunnel vision pronouncements -- so often contradictory because there is no empirical science behind most of them -- have become profoundly divisive political footballs.


I agree that Fauci should not add economic issues to his equivocating meanderings, but he (and others of his ilk) all argued that you can't ban travel (inter and intra). I don't see that as anything but an economic statement and in one presentation the presenter explicitly said: 'it would be too harmful economically" after saying you couldn't ban travel. The other option is to use military personnel and bases to quarantine travelers before allowing them back into society. And I assume that is also considered 'too expensive". But both methods would be "following the science" regarding blocking the transmission of an infectious respiratory disease that only spreads from place to place when people travel. Fauci also had this weird thing where he didn't think people should stop their normal activities until the disease was widespread locally. He told a weekend morning show on February 29th 2020 that people should still go to restaurants and malls because the virus was not yet widespread enough for restrictions.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8571



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PostPosted: 07/02/21 9:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
There are two issues related to Covid-19 virus origin.

The first is whether the origin was a "natural" one, jumping from bats to humans in a wet meat market in Wuhan, China, or whether it was a man-made virus that leaked from a laboratory.


When the scientists involved in lab shenanigans said it wasn't man-made to cover their asses, the press decided to use that as debunking that it came from a lab, since Trump had said it came from a lab. But it can be a natural bat virus - taken from bats out in the wild and brought into a lab, or on bats brought into the lab - and still infect lab workers.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8571



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PostPosted: 07/02/21 10:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Viral "gain of function" studies in viruses are very important in the development of new pharmaceuticals, especially vaccines. Adenoviruses have been altered to make them more effective in delivering antigens to human cells and then to stimulate an immune response, and they are being used currently to develop vaccines for everything from HIV to TB to Ebola. Modified adenoviruses were also used to make the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine for COVID. Besides vaccines, they're apparently used to deliver chemotherapy to cancer cells although I am not familiar with any of the specifics. Banning GoF work would be disastrous.


I am referring to this specific research done in the Wuhan lab:

Quote:
In the current debate around SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, gain of function has a much narrower meaning related to a virus becoming easier to move between humans, or becoming more lethal in humans. It is important to remember, though, that the term "gain of function" by itself covers much more than this type of research.


FrozenLVFan wrote:
Workers in BioSafety Level-4 (BSL-4) labs, where the most dangerous viruses are studied, have not only "space suits" but also airlocks, complicated airflow and air filtration systems, and decontamination protocols. However, shit happens.


Nicholas Wade had a dimmer view:

Quote:
The Wuhan Institute of Virology had a new BSL4 lab, but its state of readiness considerably alarmed the State Department inspectors who visited it from the Beijing embassy in 2018. “The new lab has a serious shortage of appropriately trained technicians and investigators needed to safely operate this high-containment laboratory,” the inspectors wrote in a cable of 19 January 2018.

The real problem, however, was not the unsafe state of the Wuhan BSL4 lab but the fact that virologists worldwide don’t like working in BSL4 conditions. You have to wear a space suit, do operations in closed cabinets and accept that everything will take twice as long. So the rules assigning each kind of virus to a given safety level were laxer than some might think was prudent.


FrozenLVFan wrote:
Wildlife markets exist throughout Africa and SE Asia and are used as a food resource by millions of people, not just "a small and isolated population group".


I didn't say that they were used by "just a small and isolated population group". Here is what I said:

Quote:
It seems it would need to be a small and isolated population group that would currently require eating wild animals to survive, and living like that would probably not even have markets.


My issue isn't whether people are eating wild animals. It is whether they need to eat wild animals since we should do as much as possible to prevent zoonotic pandemic events. Although we still get zoonotic events from farm animals (Bird flu, Swine flu) so people could always counter that if we ban wildlife consumption we need to also ban farm animal consumption.


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