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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013 Posts: 525
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Posted: 06/21/21 7:35 pm ::: |
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Upsets happen. The idea is to field the best team possible; I just don't see where replacing any of these players with a currently injured Neka makes the team better. Remember, for all her well deserved accomplishments, Neka, with several injuries, was not very good in both 2019 and 2020.
Leaving Parker off in 2016 was the biggest controversy that I remember (Dev loads up in her tweets), but you know who took Parker's spot?....Stewart.
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mercfan
Joined: 08 May 2013 Posts: 1910
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Posted: 06/21/21 7:37 pm ::: |
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miller40 wrote: |
mercfan wrote: |
I'm a big Nneka fan so it's obviously disappointing. More so because I think she is an excellent ambassador of the game. Unfortunately, it's just the most dominant position in the game at the moment. The forwards on team USA are considerably "better" than the group of guards. If Stewart or Wilson couldn't make it due to injury, she would be in. You can't even reposition because Fowles, Griner and Charles are arguably 3 of the 4 best U.S. centers ever if we're talking pure talent. It's just the way the cookie crumbles. I do have sympathy though and thought Chiney's piece was spot on.
FWIW Staley's comments do heavily imply that the injury was a major part of her omission and it seems like a lot of facts regarding decision making conversations have not been revealed.
I don't really care about term limits per say. It just doesn't matter to me if players are still arguably the best in their role. Playing international competition and excelling is more difficult than some of ya'll make it out to be. You can't just throw a bunch of 22 year olds on the court and call it a day at this level. Players like Bird and Taurasi have just made it look easy over the last 20 years. |
Ogwumike’s sister/s and her agent have all confirmed she will be just as healthy and ready to play by Olympics as Taurasi.
Dev Peters has a lot of info on USAWBB in this thread, it is worth a look:
https://twitter.com/mspeters14/status/1407099988388286466?s=21
It includes mention of there being separate activities for UConn and non-UConn Team USA members in London 2012. |
Right and I get that. However Taurasi and Nneka are not competing for a spot. She is competing with three healthy elite forwards.
Staley, the head coach literally said
"I mean, if we had to make a decision a month from now ... I'm sure she would be healthy. I know this is one of the things that she wanted to do. She came to every training camp, she's been a great voice in our training camp and our practices. We're definitely going to miss Nneka."
All I am implying is that this wasn't a "put names in a hat and only pick who we like". A lot goes in to this and finding a 12 person roster is NEVER going to come without anger. Someone or multiple people will always get the short end.
This doesn't happen in the NBA because the best players choose to skip the olympics. Otherwise we would be discussing Curry vs Lillard vs Paul vs Irving vs Westbrook non stop on social. The bottom line is that there are not enough spots for everyone to make the team.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67096 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 06/21/21 7:37 pm ::: |
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LibFan25 wrote: |
Next Olympics will be the one to watch, Bird and taurasi will finally hang it up and let others shine for once. In Jesus name. Amen |
I heard this five years ago...
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 06/21/21 7:37 pm ::: |
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I'm interested in the team 'pairings'
so Washington
Ariel Atkins and Tina Charles
Seattle
Sue Bird. Jewell Loyd, Breanna Stewart
Minny:
Napheesa Collier
Sylvia Fowles
Phoenix:NY
Brittney Griner
Skylar Diggins-Smith
Diana Taurasi
Vegas:
Chelsea Gray
A'ja Wilson
no Chicago, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Indiana, Connecticut, Dallas, or NY
Basically you only get the call if you're a known name. Might as well have some random NBA commentators make the selections.
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mercfan
Joined: 08 May 2013 Posts: 1910
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Posted: 06/21/21 7:42 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
I'm interested in the team 'pairings'
so Washington
Ariel Atkins and Tina Charles
Seattle
Sue Bird. Jewell Loyd, Breanna Stewart
Minny:
Napheesa Collier
Sylvia Fowles
Phoenix:NY
Brittney Griner
Skylar Diggins-Smith
Diana Taurasi
Vegas:
Chelsea Gray
A'ja Wilson
no Chicago, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Indiana, Connecticut, Dallas, or NY
Basically you only get the call if you're a known name. Might as well have some random NBA commentators make the selections. |
Usually to be a known name you have to be....the best.
I am confused as to where this gets confusing to people. I am not a Seattle fan and Sue Bird is objectively the best pg in the game. She should be on the team. If Simone Biles is the best gymnast for the next 50 years, she should be on the team if she wants to be. That's what this event is.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67096 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 06/21/21 7:50 pm ::: |
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Luuuc wrote: |
Term limits are a silly bandaid for a problem that can be instantly fixed just by selecting players on merit. You shouldn't have to impose some arbitrary limit purely to avoid having to tell someone "Sorry but your value to this basketball team is no longer top-12 level"
As we've said for years, the USA could pick a best 12, leave them at home, send the next-best 12, and still comfortably win gold, so that leaves the selectors free to do whatever they want and still say "We won. This vindicates everything we have done." and get away with having an obviously flawed system.
A small & petty part of me is happy because there's about to be players with more golds than LLL, but it's clearly a bad system right now. |
You sound like you wouldn't be upset if the Opals had a Sue Bird caliber PG who wanted to play in five (or more) Olympics
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63917
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Posted: 06/21/21 7:57 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
LibFan25 wrote: |
Next Olympics will be the one to watch, Bird and taurasi will finally hang it up and let others shine for once. In Jesus name. Amen |
I heard this five years ago... |
And the next one is only three short years away.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63917
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Posted: 06/21/21 8:03 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
Luuuc wrote: |
Term limits are a silly bandaid for a problem that can be instantly fixed just by selecting players on merit. You shouldn't have to impose some arbitrary limit purely to avoid having to tell someone "Sorry but your value to this basketball team is no longer top-12 level"
As we've said for years, the USA could pick a best 12, leave them at home, send the next-best 12, and still comfortably win gold, so that leaves the selectors free to do whatever they want and still say "We won. This vindicates everything we have done." and get away with having an obviously flawed system.
A small & petty part of me is happy because there's about to be players with more golds than LLL, but it's clearly a bad system right now. |
You sound like you wouldn't be upset if the Opals had a Sue Bird caliber PG who wanted to play in five (or more) Olympics |
Somebody like Kristi Harrower?
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67096 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 06/21/21 8:12 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
Luuuc wrote: |
Term limits are a silly bandaid for a problem that can be instantly fixed just by selecting players on merit. You shouldn't have to impose some arbitrary limit purely to avoid having to tell someone "Sorry but your value to this basketball team is no longer top-12 level"
As we've said for years, the USA could pick a best 12, leave them at home, send the next-best 12, and still comfortably win gold, so that leaves the selectors free to do whatever they want and still say "We won. This vindicates everything we have done." and get away with having an obviously flawed system.
A small & petty part of me is happy because there's about to be players with more golds than LLL, but it's clearly a bad system right now. |
You sound like you wouldn't be upset if the Opals had a Sue Bird caliber PG who wanted to play in five (or more) Olympics |
Somebody like Kristi Harrower? |
Harrower isn't even in Bird's ballpark
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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miller40
Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 1334
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Posted: 06/21/21 8:23 pm ::: |
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mercfan wrote: |
miller40 wrote: |
mercfan wrote: |
I'm a big Nneka fan so it's obviously disappointing. More so because I think she is an excellent ambassador of the game. Unfortunately, it's just the most dominant position in the game at the moment. The forwards on team USA are considerably "better" than the group of guards. If Stewart or Wilson couldn't make it due to injury, she would be in. You can't even reposition because Fowles, Griner and Charles are arguably 3 of the 4 best U.S. centers ever if we're talking pure talent. It's just the way the cookie crumbles. I do have sympathy though and thought Chiney's piece was spot on.
FWIW Staley's comments do heavily imply that the injury was a major part of her omission and it seems like a lot of facts regarding decision making conversations have not been revealed.
I don't really care about term limits per say. It just doesn't matter to me if players are still arguably the best in their role. Playing international competition and excelling is more difficult than some of ya'll make it out to be. You can't just throw a bunch of 22 year olds on the court and call it a day at this level. Players like Bird and Taurasi have just made it look easy over the last 20 years. |
Ogwumike’s sister/s and her agent have all confirmed she will be just as healthy and ready to play by Olympics as Taurasi.
Dev Peters has a lot of info on USAWBB in this thread, it is worth a look:
https://twitter.com/mspeters14/status/1407099988388286466?s=21
It includes mention of there being separate activities for UConn and non-UConn Team USA members in London 2012. |
Right and I get that. However Taurasi and Nneka are not competing for a spot. She is competing with three healthy elite forwards.
Staley, the head coach literally said
"I mean, if we had to make a decision a month from now ... I'm sure she would be healthy. I know this is one of the things that she wanted to do. She came to every training camp, she's been a great voice in our training camp and our practices. We're definitely going to miss Nneka."
All I am implying is that this wasn't a "put names in a hat and only pick who we like". A lot goes in to this and finding a 12 person roster is NEVER going to come without anger. Someone or multiple people will always get the short end.
This doesn't happen in the NBA because the best players choose to skip the olympics. Otherwise we would be discussing Curry vs Lillard vs Paul vs Irving vs Westbrook non stop on social. The bottom line is that there are not enough spots for everyone to make the team. |
Right and I get that. However Taurasi and Nneka are not competing for a spot. She is competing with three healthy elite forwards.
Are you suggesting there weren’t healthy elite wings in the pool to compete against Taurasi?
Anyway, I wasn’t suggesting they were fighting for the same spot, and don’t think I came anywhere near suggesting that. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of one being sidelined due to an injury while one wasn’t, when they both have similar recovery timeframes. You even said Staley hinted at injury being the deciding factor. My point is, why is it the deciding factor for some but not others? That question isn’t dependent on which position they play.
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Hoops9092
Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 1640
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Posted: 06/21/21 8:27 pm ::: |
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Wow. Dev Peters' twitter is spot on
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mercfan
Joined: 08 May 2013 Posts: 1910
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Posted: 06/21/21 8:38 pm ::: |
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miller40 wrote: |
mercfan wrote: |
miller40 wrote: |
mercfan wrote: |
I'm a big Nneka fan so it's obviously disappointing. More so because I think she is an excellent ambassador of the game. Unfortunately, it's just the most dominant position in the game at the moment. The forwards on team USA are considerably "better" than the group of guards. If Stewart or Wilson couldn't make it due to injury, she would be in. You can't even reposition because Fowles, Griner and Charles are arguably 3 of the 4 best U.S. centers ever if we're talking pure talent. It's just the way the cookie crumbles. I do have sympathy though and thought Chiney's piece was spot on.
FWIW Staley's comments do heavily imply that the injury was a major part of her omission and it seems like a lot of facts regarding decision making conversations have not been revealed.
I don't really care about term limits per say. It just doesn't matter to me if players are still arguably the best in their role. Playing international competition and excelling is more difficult than some of ya'll make it out to be. You can't just throw a bunch of 22 year olds on the court and call it a day at this level. Players like Bird and Taurasi have just made it look easy over the last 20 years. |
Ogwumike’s sister/s and her agent have all confirmed she will be just as healthy and ready to play by Olympics as Taurasi.
Dev Peters has a lot of info on USAWBB in this thread, it is worth a look:
https://twitter.com/mspeters14/status/1407099988388286466?s=21
It includes mention of there being separate activities for UConn and non-UConn Team USA members in London 2012. |
Right and I get that. However Taurasi and Nneka are not competing for a spot. She is competing with three healthy elite forwards.
Staley, the head coach literally said
"I mean, if we had to make a decision a month from now ... I'm sure she would be healthy. I know this is one of the things that she wanted to do. She came to every training camp, she's been a great voice in our training camp and our practices. We're definitely going to miss Nneka."
All I am implying is that this wasn't a "put names in a hat and only pick who we like". A lot goes in to this and finding a 12 person roster is NEVER going to come without anger. Someone or multiple people will always get the short end.
This doesn't happen in the NBA because the best players choose to skip the olympics. Otherwise we would be discussing Curry vs Lillard vs Paul vs Irving vs Westbrook non stop on social. The bottom line is that there are not enough spots for everyone to make the team. |
Right and I get that. However Taurasi and Nneka are not competing for a spot. She is competing with three healthy elite forwards.
Are you suggesting there weren’t healthy elite wings in the pool to compete against Taurasi?
Anyway, I wasn’t suggesting they were fighting for the same spot, and don’t think I came anywhere near suggesting that. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of one being sidelined due to an injury while one wasn’t, when they both have similar recovery timeframes. You even said Staley hinted at injury being the deciding factor. My point is, why is it the deciding factor for some but not others? That question isn’t dependent on which position they play. |
Right but it is dependent on other factors, Taurasi is not competing with two MVP level wings, who are both above her in the ranks for an Olympic spot. If there were two individuals at the shooting guard position who were at the level of Stewart and Wilson, Taurasi would have been left off. But the closest you can get is Arike, Courtney Williams, Tiffany Hayes, and Jackie Young. There just isn't a plethora of talent in that spot. Bonner is better than Williams, Hayes and Young and we aren't even talking about her because that position is that deep. There's plenty of elite forwards that did not make the roster. Notice that we aren't talking about guard snubs, like at all? Hell there's only 3 outstanding pg's in the entire league and two of them are on the team.
It's not always a conspiracy.
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21958
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Posted: 06/21/21 8:55 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
Luuuc wrote: |
Term limits are a silly bandaid for a problem that can be instantly fixed just by selecting players on merit. You shouldn't have to impose some arbitrary limit purely to avoid having to tell someone "Sorry but your value to this basketball team is no longer top-12 level"
As we've said for years, the USA could pick a best 12, leave them at home, send the next-best 12, and still comfortably win gold, so that leaves the selectors free to do whatever they want and still say "We won. This vindicates everything we have done." and get away with having an obviously flawed system.
A small & petty part of me is happy because there's about to be players with more golds than LLL, but it's clearly a bad system right now. |
You sound like you wouldn't be upset if the Opals had a Sue Bird caliber PG who wanted to play in five (or more) Olympics |
Indeed. Bird still absolutely deserves a spot IMO. If I was picking Team USA she's one of the easiest inclusions.
mercfan wrote: |
Right because that is elite olympic level competition. The Opals have like 9 WNBA players on their roster, one of which dominated at Stanford. One of which is a perennial all-star. Two won the WNBA title last season.
Cambage, Whitcomb and Mitchell would have a field day. |
Whitcomb will not be having any field days in the near future.
USA Basketball aren't the only ones involved with questionable selections.
And ours actually matter because they impact our medal prospects instead of just whether we win gold by 20 points or by 19 points.
_________________ Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
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mercfan
Joined: 08 May 2013 Posts: 1910
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Posted: 06/21/21 9:01 pm ::: |
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Luuuc wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
Luuuc wrote: |
Term limits are a silly bandaid for a problem that can be instantly fixed just by selecting players on merit. You shouldn't have to impose some arbitrary limit purely to avoid having to tell someone "Sorry but your value to this basketball team is no longer top-12 level"
As we've said for years, the USA could pick a best 12, leave them at home, send the next-best 12, and still comfortably win gold, so that leaves the selectors free to do whatever they want and still say "We won. This vindicates everything we have done." and get away with having an obviously flawed system.
A small & petty part of me is happy because there's about to be players with more golds than LLL, but it's clearly a bad system right now. |
You sound like you wouldn't be upset if the Opals had a Sue Bird caliber PG who wanted to play in five (or more) Olympics |
Indeed. Bird still absolutely deserves a spot IMO. If I was picking Team USA she's one of the easiest inclusions.
mercfan wrote: |
Right because that is elite olympic level competition. The Opals have like 9 WNBA players on their roster, one of which dominated at Stanford. One of which is a perennial all-star. Two won the WNBA title last season.
Cambage, Whitcomb and Mitchell would have a field day. |
Whitcomb will not be having any field days in the near future.
USA Basketball aren't the only ones involved with questionable selections.
And ours actually matter because they impact our medal prospects instead of just whether we win gold by 20 points or by 19 points. |
Damn. I did not catch that Whitcomb didn't make the Opals Oly roster.
Sheesh.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6827
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Posted: 06/21/21 9:10 pm ::: |
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I think Nneka got screwed and I think Dev summed it up well.
It is one thing if you are not a top player or you skipped camps but Nneka is a top player and has done everything she could over the last few seasons to be on the team including being a part of that group of 8 the last year and a half that seemed pretty much guaraunteed to make the final team.
I don't think her injury is enough to keep her off the squad as the 12th player. Even if their were six posts there would still be enough flexibility to not have to worry about line ups.
I do not believe Charles got her spot I believe Atkins did (and to a lesser extent Collier) you can definitely make arguments as I am sure the committee has that you need more balance but
You could run this line up out and do fine
Bird/Gray
Taurasi/Diggins-Smith/Loyd
Stewart/Collier
Wilson/Charles/Ogwumike
Griner/Fowles
it looks a little unbalanced but in truth you can play at the
1 Bird/Gray/Diggins-Smith/Taurasi/Loyd
2 Taurasi/Diggins-Smith/Gray/Loyd/Bird
3 Stewart/Collier/Taurasi/Gray/Loyd (Maybe even Ogwumike or Charles so while you are shallow of traditional 3s there is still plenty of coverage)
4. Wilson/Stewart/Charles/Ogwumike
5. Griner/Fowles/Charles/Ogwumike
I am not saying Atkins doesn't deserve her spot (or Collier) I just think they were the last two in and the argument that Nneka wasn't taken so we could have more balance when even with 6 posts there still seems like there is ample coverage at all positions
Last edited by J-Spoon on 06/21/21 9:15 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6827
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Posted: 06/21/21 9:13 pm ::: |
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So how about this for 24
Gray/Ionescu/Buekers
Loyd/Ogunbowale
Collier/Deshields
Stewart/N. Ogwumike
Wilson/Griner/Boston
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013 Posts: 525
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Posted: 06/21/21 9:31 pm ::: |
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J-Spoon wrote: |
I think Nneka got screwed and I think Dev summed it up well.
It is one thing if you are not a top player or you skipped camps but Nneka is a top player and has done everything she could over the last few seasons to be on the team including being a part of that group of 8 the last year and a half that seemed pretty much guaraunteed to make the final team.
I don't think her injury is enough to keep her off the squad as the 12th player. Even if their were six posts there would still be enough flexibility to not have to worry about line ups.
I do not believe Charles got her spot I believe Atkins did (and to a lesser extent Collier) you can definitely make arguments as I am sure the committee has that you need more balance but
You could run this line up out and do fine
Bird/Gray
Taurasi/Diggins-Smith/Loyd
Stewart/Collier
Wilson/Charles/Ogwumike
Griner/Fowles
it looks a little unbalanced but in truth you can play at the
1 Bird/Gray/Diggins-Smith/Taurasi/Loyd
2 Taurasi/Diggins-Smith/Gray/Loyd/Bird
3 Stewart/Collier/Taurasi/Gray/Loyd (Maybe even Ogwumike or Charles so while you are shallow of traditional 3s there is still plenty of coverage)
4. Wilson/Stewart/Charles/Ogwumike
5. Griner/Fowles/Charles/Ogwumike
I am not saying Atkins doesn't deserve her spot (or Collier) I just think they were the last two in and the argument that Nneka wasn't taken so we could have more balance when even with 6 posts there still seems like there is ample coverage at all positions |
No way replacing anyone on the currently named roster with an injured Neka makes for a better team. Neka has had a wonderful career, but how would she improve this roster? The other bigs are just better players. Remember also that Neka, unlike Collier, has very little perimeter skills. In filling a USA roster, redundancy is important. You want backups in case injuries happen. Players like Atkins, Collier and Diggy would be next woman up. In Neka's case, she would only be third or fourth woman option should another big go down. Actually, this last line summarizes why she is not on team.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6827
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Posted: 06/21/21 9:49 pm ::: |
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canadaball wrote: |
J-Spoon wrote: |
I think Nneka got screwed and I think Dev summed it up well.
It is one thing if you are not a top player or you skipped camps but Nneka is a top player and has done everything she could over the last few seasons to be on the team including being a part of that group of 8 the last year and a half that seemed pretty much guaraunteed to make the final team.
I don't think her injury is enough to keep her off the squad as the 12th player. Even if their were six posts there would still be enough flexibility to not have to worry about line ups.
I do not believe Charles got her spot I believe Atkins did (and to a lesser extent Collier) you can definitely make arguments as I am sure the committee has that you need more balance but
You could run this line up out and do fine
Bird/Gray
Taurasi/Diggins-Smith/Loyd
Stewart/Collier
Wilson/Charles/Ogwumike
Griner/Fowles
it looks a little unbalanced but in truth you can play at the
1 Bird/Gray/Diggins-Smith/Taurasi/Loyd
2 Taurasi/Diggins-Smith/Gray/Loyd/Bird
3 Stewart/Collier/Taurasi/Gray/Loyd (Maybe even Ogwumike or Charles so while you are shallow of traditional 3s there is still plenty of coverage)
4. Wilson/Stewart/Charles/Ogwumike
5. Griner/Fowles/Charles/Ogwumike
I am not saying Atkins doesn't deserve her spot (or Collier) I just think they were the last two in and the argument that Nneka wasn't taken so we could have more balance when even with 6 posts there still seems like there is ample coverage at all positions |
No way replacing anyone on the currently named roster with an injured Neka makes for a better team. Neka has had a wonderful career, but how would she improve this roster? The other bigs are just better players. Remember also that Neka, unlike Collier, has very little perimeter skills. In filling a USA roster, redundancy is important. You want backups in case injuries happen. Players like Atkins, Collier and Diggy would be next woman up. In Neka's case, she would only be third or fourth woman option should another big go down. Actually, this last line summarizes why she is not on team. |
I am not actually arguing it would make for a better team
maybe I am arguing that it wouldn't make the team any worse to have her on it over Atkins or Collier
I am definitely saying that there is a dues element to making the team and that Ogwumike paid those dues as much as a person could.
I used my positional chart to basically show that putting Ogwumike in over Atkins or Collier makes very little difference to the over all depth chart.
in theory if Bird and Taurasi are both healthy there is plenty of coverage behind them with Loyd/Diggins-Smith and Gray. Stewart play the SF spot over-seas and again with Stewart and Collier (or Atkins if Collier is left off) as well as Gray, Loyd and Taurasi and maybe even Charles being able to play the 3 there is more than enough coverage on a 12 person roster to take Ogwumike over Collier or Atkins. I agree that Atkins gives you a little more depth at the guard spot asnd so Bird and Taurasi won't have to play as much but it isn't hard when the team is also based on politics, loyalty and paying dues for me to convince myself that Ogwumike should have made it ahead of them.
I understand your point and don't even disagree with it but that doesn't stop me from think Nneka got screwed and that if Nneka was DT or Bird (both of whom I love and I have argued in the past have every right to make the team as long as they want) she would have been given her spot regardless of injury status. The games are still a month away and her injury just isn't that serious.
again love DT and Bird but if the team is so worried about the minutes behind them that they feel the need to bring 4 other guards that is a little worrisome in and of itself. In short we now have six players who are predominately 1/2s I am sure we could have done with one less and had 6 player who are predominantly 4/5s instead without having any impact on the over all quality of play or potential fro Gold for Team USA
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67096 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 06/21/21 10:00 pm ::: |
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People keep talking about Ogwumike's MVP like it was last season or even a typical season of hers. She was MVP five years ago. Only one of the top five in 2016 MVP voting is on the roster despite all of them being American. And that season was way out of context for her. She had career highs in almost every category. She hasn't been within 250 votes of MVP in any season since and never got more than token votes before that.
Nneka's a good player, but this choice is nowhere near the same as Geno's petty treatment of Candace Parker last time around.
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 06/21/21 10:07 pm ::: |
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Birdy is on the team because she is still playing at an extraordinary high level.
I think it's safe to say there are few questions about including Bird, Stewie, and A'ja . Neither Fowles nor Griner are as good as they used to be but they are the best to fill the big center role.
I like Collier but I would take Ogwumike over her. Collier is young and has opportunity in the future.
Tina is having a superb season but in general, if you use the same reasoning as used for Taurasi (ie the past 10 years), Nneka would win hands down.
Anybody else named can be questioned as well.
Taurasi was already showing her age in the couple of games she played this year. She's on the team based on ancient history. I could easily replace her with Laney, Bonner or C.Williams for instance.
Gray is not having a stellar season but I'm glad they have her for 'new' blood. I think Skylar is pretty over-rated as well. There are quite a few players as good as her IMO.
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mercfan
Joined: 08 May 2013 Posts: 1910
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Posted: 06/21/21 10:28 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
Birdy is on the team because she is still playing at an extraordinary high level.
I think it's safe to say there are few questions about including Bird, Stewie, and A'ja . Neither Fowles nor Griner are as good as they used to be but they are the best to fill the big center role.
I like Collier but I would take Ogwumike over her. Collier is young and has opportunity in the future.
Tina is having a superb season but in general, if you use the same reasoning as used for Taurasi (ie the past 10 years), Nneka would win hands down.
Anybody else named can be questioned as well.
Taurasi was already showing her age in the couple of games she played this year. She's on the team based on ancient history. I could easily replace her with Laney, Bonner or C.Williams for instance.
Gray is not having a stellar season but I'm glad they have her for 'new' blood. I think Skylar is pretty over-rated as well. There are quite a few players as good as her IMO. |
There are always going to be questions because someone is ALWAYS going to be left off. There are 12 spots and 30 players who deserve it.
In regards to Taurasi, does last year count as ancient? She was 5th in the WNBA in scoring (2nd amongst guards) and 9th in assists playing off the ball. She had 28 points and 9 assists in the final game of the season, including two 4 point plays down the stretch. Serious GOAT stuff. I understand that I come off as a fan, and there is truth to that, but it seems like the wbb community is acting like she can't even walk anymore just because she is taking what is likely precautionary time off for the Olympics.
I am with you in that I would not bat an eye if Nneka was included over Collier. That is where I'd be willing to dabble in some debate. However, it's moot because I couldn't muster up a true argument for including one over the other which goes back to the difficulty in putting this whole team together.
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mercfan
Joined: 08 May 2013 Posts: 1910
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Posted: 06/21/21 10:29 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
People keep talking about Ogwumike's MVP like it was last season or even a typical season of hers. She was MVP five years ago. Only one of the top five in 2016 MVP voting is on the roster despite all of them being American. And that season was way out of context for her. She had career highs in almost every category. She hasn't been within 250 votes of MVP in any season since and never got more than token votes before that.
Nneka's a good player, but this choice is nowhere near the same as Geno's petty treatment of Candace Parker last time around. |
This. It is phrased on social media as if she won the MVP like last week lol.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24406 Location: London
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Posted: 06/21/21 11:10 pm ::: |
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The weird part is that Nneka did all the stuff that normally gets rewarded in these scenarios. In the past the 'surprise' picks have usually been put down to loyalty to USA Basketball, showing up for camps and stuff like that. Nneka did all of that. She was in that 'pool' of players staying home that they started three years ago, she doesn't play overseas, she's been at all the warm-up/training camps, she's played in two World Cups. This is the stuff that normally gets you in.
In some ways, I think USA Basketball have actually done the 'brave' thing here. The move that causes no controversy, outside of the absolute die-hards who'd bitch about there being no true wings on the roster, would be to take Nneka over Atkins. You're not going to get three-page diatribes from Atkins's sister about how she's been robbed of a spot, and her being left out would've been tossed in with players like DeShields and Copper not making it. But they've decided the roster would be better with Atkins than Ogwumike, so gone with that and damn the consequences.
If you think all that historical loyalty stuff should count and be applied to who goes to the Olympics, then maybe Nneka got screwed. But if not, it's actually a fairly bold pick. |
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013 Posts: 525
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Posted: 06/22/21 12:14 am ::: |
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This roster lacks 3's. yes, Stew played small forward at the Worlds (winning MVP), but that is not her natural position, and unless they go with a 3 guard lineup, there is no one like Angel or Maya this year. Neka could, of course, never fill that role. For this reason Collier (or DeShields) was a no brainer to make the team. Collier seems quite comfortable playing away from the basket, and her size and athleticism could kill teams off the bench.I know USA has overwhelming talent, but going with an unbalanced roster makes no sense.
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