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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67491 Location: Where the action is
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24484 Location: London
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Posted: 05/12/21 7:25 pm ::: |
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I'm still really struggling with the format of this thing. Not to understand it, but to see the point. It's not a 'Cup'. Not in the way they want to sell it to you, as if it's just like the ones all the players are used to from Europe and/or from soccer. Cup competitions are separate entities. You don't just arbitrarily say "well a bunch of these league games are going to count for the cup as well" and then play a final. That's a nonsense, and destroys all the drama and interest that you would typically have in a cup. You get shocks and upsets in cups, and sometimes teams win them that would have no chance in a league.
There's only one actual cup game in this entire 61-game 'cup' competition. |
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RI_Sun_Fan
Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Posts: 858
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Posted: 05/12/21 7:59 pm ::: |
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I think what the league is trying to do is set up another meaningful game. I guess the point is to have the best team in the East to play the best team in the West now that the league has gone to one table for playoff seeding.
I am surprised that have announced the cup game will be played in Phoenix. I don't know how many people will attend if Phoenix isn't in the game.
Also I'm sure the league is hoping that a team's season isn't ruined by injury playing in this extra game.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16516 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 05/13/21 9:25 am ::: |
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I said it before and I will say it again, this is about the stupidest fucking thing I have ever heard.
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Milks26
Joined: 25 Mar 2021 Posts: 832
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011 Posts: 10697 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: 05/13/21 9:58 am ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
I said it before and I will say it again, this is about the stupidest fucking thing I have ever heard. |
X_______
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4707
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Posted: 05/13/21 10:00 am ::: |
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Imo this isn’t the right year for the League to start it up. I get that it’s the 25th Anniversary season, but the year is still too abnormal. Wish it could’ve been implemented starting next year.
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 4312
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Posted: 05/14/21 12:00 am ::: |
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Richyyy wrote: |
I'm still really struggling with the format of this thing. Not to understand it, but to see the point. It's not a 'Cup'. Not in the way they want to sell it to you, as if it's just like the ones all the players are used to from Europe and/or from soccer. Cup competitions are separate entities. You don't just arbitrarily say "well a bunch of these league games are going to count for the cup as well" and then play a final. That's a nonsense, and destroys all the drama and interest that you would typically have in a cup. You get shocks and upsets in cups, and sometimes teams win them that would have no chance in a league.
There's only one actual cup game in this entire 61-game 'cup' competition. |
I get that Americans only have the typical soccer cup format in mind, but since Adam Silver clearly borrowed from the more common of the European basketball cup models when the NBA first proposed theirs, I wonder why they did not say that. It might just be a pride thing about not borrowing ideas from other basketball leagues as the play-in tournament may have incorporated the "twice-to-beat" format from the league in the Philippines.
I am not sure how many teams would need to qualify from regular season results to make it feel like the European basketball model. Poland's women's cup has the top five first division teams, but that's almost half the league usually. The originally proposed four for the WNBA seems like a good start, but even eight in the NBA seems small. |
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011 Posts: 10697 Location: Minnesota
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 64255
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Posted: 05/16/21 5:59 pm ::: |
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Failure on her part. Take some time to read about how she could increase her income by about 50%. They have a 2-0 lead in the East now.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011 Posts: 10697 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: 05/16/21 6:16 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
Failure on her part. Take some time to read about how she could increase her income by about 50%. They have a 2-0 lead in the East now. |
You mean to say that the players should be informed of this "cup" just like we were about this? Why read a press release when the league should be informing the players about this...it's fail on the league. No questions about it.
When a face of the league publicly says she doesn't know or get it, it's not well thought out.
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 4312
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Posted: 05/17/21 12:13 am ::: |
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lynxmania wrote: |
Shades wrote: |
Failure on her part. Take some time to read about how she could increase her income by about 50%. They have a 2-0 lead in the East now. |
You mean to say that the players should be informed of this "cup" just like we were about this? Why read a press release when the league should be informing the players about this...it's fail on the league. No questions about it.
When a face of the league publicly says she doesn't know or get it, it's not well thought out. |
I have heard some pretty interesting rules questions raised by athletes over the years.
It is a slightly modified format, but players who have been in Spain, Italy, Poland, Hungary, and to some extent Turkey should have at least a basic understanding about how this would work even though the WNBA is using select games instead of the entire first half of the regular season as qualification. Players who have never experienced it would definitely be confused though. I look forward to when the NBA adopts a similar format for their cup. |
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 05/17/21 1:29 am ::: |
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I think the main focus for most players is just getting off to a good start and gelling with their teammates. For so many, their priority is basic stuff like making the team or getting back from overseas and trying to fit in. Even if someone knows about the Commissioner's Cup, it's probably an abstraction right now. For instance, Layshia Clarendon is a VP in the union. I bet she understands it. However, given that Clarendon had a bad first game and didn't even get off the bench for game two, that's probably weighing on her mind more than grabbing two Commissioner Cup wins. If I were Layshia, I'd be concerned about my future in the league.
Maybe later in the season, when getting into the Cup playoff looks more like a reality, then players will be more motivated by the money. But for now, I think they're just worried about playing well for the sake of playing well.
_________________ You can always do something else.
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010 Posts: 16467 Location: Holland
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Posted: 05/17/21 4:21 am ::: |
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At the end of the day players can win some extra money so that's a step in the right direction.
1st place: 375.000
Runner-up: 125.000
MVP: extra 5.000
It's a start!
_________________ "Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 05/17/21 7:50 am ::: |
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Michelle89 wrote: |
At the end of the day players can win some extra money so that's a step in the right direction.
1st place: 375.000
Runner-up: 125.000
MVP: extra 5.000
It's a start! |
Assuming the money is paid out equally to every player on the sqaud, the end of bench players on good teams could find this pretty interesting.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24484 Location: London
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Posted: 05/17/21 9:23 am ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
Michelle89 wrote: |
At the end of the day players can win some extra money so that's a step in the right direction.
1st place: 375.000
Runner-up: 125.000
MVP: extra 5.000
It's a start! |
Assuming the money is paid out equally to every player on the sqaud, the end of bench players on good teams could find this pretty interesting. |
But does, for example, Joyner Holmes get a cut if New York make the Final? She played in a Commissioner's Cup game! As far as I know they've not told us a lot about the finer details of stuff like that. Including tie-breakers, which in two leagues where teams only play ten games are fairly likely to come into play (and two tied teams are fairly likely to be 1-1 head-to-head). It'll be great when they decide a finalist for this exciting tournament with a super-dramatic toss of a coin. |
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11403
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Posted: 05/17/21 9:33 am ::: |
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No doubt this is pretty dumb this year ...
First, though, it gets more money to the players (at least some of them), so I'm sure the union went for it.
Second, with things like this, it's often difficult to get them started in a format everyone can agree on, so year one can look like the dog's dinner. Presumably, they will tweak it over time, and maybe in a few years it will make a little more sense.
Basically, this is a baby step to give the players more money and give the league some marketing and a good TV game. What it will look like -- or if it will even exist -- five years from now will very likely be different.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24484 Location: London
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Posted: 05/17/21 9:51 am ::: |
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There are a million ways to 'give the players more money', though. And this is all going to go to a pretty small segment of them.
I understand that they've tried to come up with a format that doesn't have to mess with the schedule much and has an extended running time for them to sell it, but it's just drama-less until the very closing stages. I can see people starting to pay attention once everyone's played about 8 games that count towards it, and we have standings that mean something, but otherwise it's just a load of regular season games that they've decided to shunt into sub-standings. Are players and/or fans meant to care slightly more if they're facing someone in-conference because the game also counts as a Commissioner's Cup game? If you want to have a cup, have an actual cup. |
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 05/17/21 10:29 am ::: |
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They do have "standings" for the CC, and an explanation of it all. I guess it is not that complicated, but the format itself is just kind of strange. This might have helped a team like the 2010-2013 Dream or the Liberty a few years back that could win in the East, and might be able to pull and upset in a one game championship game against one of the West powerhouse teams.
https://www.wnba.com/wnba-commissioners-cup-leaderboard/
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 4312
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Posted: 05/23/21 5:00 pm ::: |
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Now the NBA is planning their own version so we can look forward to more confusion in the basketball world. No mention that it could be similar to the cups in European basketball though.
Once there is more scheduling flexibility, they should consider having all the relevant regular season games in the same time period to minimize confusion. They could schedule six inter-conference games first so that teams can get in rhythm and then play the ten intra-conference games. |
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24484 Location: London
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Posted: 05/23/21 6:00 pm ::: |
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awhom111 wrote: |
Now the NBA is planning their own version so we can look forward to more confusion in the basketball world. No mention that it could be similar to the cups in European basketball though.
Once there is more scheduling flexibility, they should consider having all the relevant regular season games in the same time period to minimize confusion. They could schedule six inter-conference games first so that teams can get in rhythm and then play the ten intra-conference games. |
I think the main thing we need is at least one more knock-out round. It's not like the 'group' stage is particularly complicated if you actually listen to how it works. It's just not particularly interesting. Give us games there's a reason to get excited about. |
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norwester
Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 6375 Location: Seattle
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Posted: 05/24/21 1:30 pm ::: |
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Richyyy wrote: |
Randy wrote: |
Michelle89 wrote: |
At the end of the day players can win some extra money so that's a step in the right direction.
1st place: 375.000
Runner-up: 125.000
MVP: extra 5.000
It's a start! |
Assuming the money is paid out equally to every player on the sqaud, the end of bench players on good teams could find this pretty interesting. |
But does, for example, Joyner Holmes get a cut if New York make the Final? She played in a Commissioner's Cup game! As far as I know they've not told us a lot about the finer details of stuff like that. Including tie-breakers, which in two leagues where teams only play ten games are fairly likely to come into play (and two tied teams are fairly likely to be 1-1 head-to-head). It'll be great when they decide a finalist for this exciting tournament with a super-dramatic toss of a coin. |
I’m interested in this point. Have you worked some data sets (like the standings in previous seasons) to test how likely it is to end in a tie? I’d be curious about that if someone with the stats had some time to take a look. Overall, while there may be some questions about the execution, I’m with those who think this is a creative way to maintain conference rivalries, generate storylines, and get the players a chance to win some extra money.
_________________ Don't you know the plural of "anecdote" is "data"?
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12793 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 4171
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Posted: 06/02/21 12:42 pm ::: |
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This and I'm assuming at some point they will name a Top 25 @25.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12793 Location: Dallas , Texas
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