RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

New York Liberty 2021
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 30, 31, 32 ... 67, 68, 69  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6772



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 2:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I understand your point

I agree that the fans wouldn't care,

but I think the new owners would care. Of course it was a management initiative. Why would new management want the team mascot named after the old arena? Maybe if Maddie's name was Libby, Rover or Scorch they would have left it alone but it was Maddie, named after the old arena, run by the old owners, of course the new owners are going to want to change it. They didn't do it for the fans, they did it for themselves, their branding and their egos.

The fact that they changed it to something kind of lame is a separate conversation. OTOH the mascot is definitely geared towards the kids who come I doubt they are going to get caught up in the symbolic meanings. Either they will think it is cute and enjoy it and buy some Ellie merchandise. or they will think it is silly and pay it no mind.

And as you said it is not like the feelings of the fans on whether or not to come to games hinges on the mascot, so I am sure a few weeks from now no one will really care too much about Maddie moving on and Ellie shooting t-shirt cannons into the crowd.


Luuuc
#NATC


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21893



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 8:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I get that some people like tradition just for tradition's sake, but I must say I'm surprised that Bob is among those objecting to cutting ties with the MSG era and all of its unpleasant baggage.



_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63548



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 9:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
And as you said it is not like the feelings of the fans on whether or not to come to games hinges on the mascot, so I am sure a few weeks from now no one will really care too much about Maddie moving on and Ellie shooting t-shirt cannons into the crowd.


Your thought process probably matches that of the front office people who made this decision based on similar assumptions about how fans will feel about this new mascot. The smart thing probably would have been to send out some feelers to fans on the matter. I think they would have gotten enough strong negative feedback that they would have went another direction. It’s kind of a callous ‘if you don’t like it you’ll get used to it’ attitude.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 12:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
I get that some people like tradition just for tradition's sake, but I must say I'm surprised that Bob is among those objecting to cutting ties with the MSG era and all of its unpleasant baggage.


Wow, Luuuc, this is absolutely fascinating.

I admit that I am not so devoted to RebKell that I read every thread of discussion here. So if I am not aware of various things you've posted, Luuuc, please correct me wherever it's relevant.

I have NO memory of you taking a strong position on any of the following, whether on this New York Liberty thread or on other threads:

1. The New York Liberty being owned for a very long while by the sickening James Dolan, whom I like to call Hideous Lord Jimmy.

2. Hideous Lord Jimmy hiring sexual harasser Isiah Thomas as our team's president and trying to make him an owner.

3. The strong stand of the WNBA players against former owner She Who Will Not Be Named.

4. The "Say Her Name: Breonna Taylor" unprecedented year-long campaign by WNBA players.

5. The leadership and success of WNBA players in helping get Raphael Warnock into the U.S. Senate.

My positions on all five of these subjects are well known. I don't recall any comments from you, Luuuc, on these matters. But perhaps I missed them or perhaps my memory is faulty. So please enlighten me and everyone.

As for the New York Liberty changing mascots, you seem to be accusing me of inconsistency, a double standard, perhaps hypocrisy, because I "object" to this move. Luuuc: your reading is downright sloppy. Please review what I wrote on page 30 of this thread. I do NOT "object" to this move, though I feel it's a mistake. Please note that I wrote these words: "I'm not one who cares much about team mascots."

To be even more direct, Luuuc: I am THRILLED that Hideous Lord Jimmy and sexual harasser Isiah are gone from the New York Liberty. Do I feel it was essential to evict Maddie because of her connection to that ugly past regime? No. Do I "object" to dumping Maddie? No. Do I think it was a mistake? Yes.

I eagerly await YOUR views, Luuuc, on every issue I've mentioned above.



_________________
Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1824



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 1:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Relax. It's not that serious. This Liberty thread is wild.


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 1:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
Relax. It's not that serious. This Liberty thread is wild.

Going off on tangents is our secret for piling up pages. That's why our thread is always longer than everyone else. Shhhh! Wink


Not to pile on Luuuc, whom I like, but just to clarify: I object to replacing Maddie but it is unrelated to tradition. For one thing, I don’t even see why sports franchises need a mascot -- just like I don’t see why we have to play the national anthem before sporting events. I’d be fine dispensing with both. And a few years ago, I loved the change when New York switched to sea foam green uniforms. I’ve always been partial to pastels, and I also like just about any shade of color in the blue-green family.

The reason I object to replacing Maddie is because he’s a darn good mascot. If you’re going to have one, being cute and funny is exactly what you want. I think Maddie is one of the best if not the very best mascot out there. This is primarily an argument about quality. The fact that he’s been around a long time is only a secondary reason. As for the change’s justification – that Maddie is named after Madison Square Garden – that’s something I didn’t even know. I just found out a couple of months ago when Myles Erhlich said he was going to write an article about it. I’ve been a diehard Liberty fan since 2006, and at least a casual fan since 1997. If I wasn’t aware, I’m sure most average fans didn’t know either. But now that I’m aware, it’s not like I look at Maddie and think to myself, “Well there’s a symbol of Madison Square Garden. How I long for the old regime!” Maddie has a personality and identity of his own. MSG does not come to mind at all.



_________________
You can always do something else.
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66732
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 1:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So it's ok to have a mascot directly linked to the previous owner that everybody hates but it's not ok to have a mascot that sort of resembles another mascot of an organization that some people hate?



_________________
Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 2:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
So it's ok to have a mascot directly linked to the previous owner that everybody hates but it's not ok to have a mascot that sort of resembles another mascot of an organization that some people hate?


Come on, you know that's an oversimplifications. Again, in my mind, Maddie isn't tethered to MSG or Dolan. And I truly believe most fans don't make that connection either. It's the team itself that conjures up memories of MSG and Dolan. That's because of all the times the Liberty had to relocate and all the times we worried about them folding. So, if management really wanted to remove memories of MSG, they should have gone for a name change. I'd be fine with that -- assuming they came up with a goood name -- because I've never liked the moniker Liberty for a sports team.

As far as the elephant thing goes, how many times do I have to explain that it was simply a snarky comment? What do you think this emoticon Twisted Evil indicates? I'm pretty demonstrative when I'm serious -- you would get a long post, not a one-liner. As I also explained, it's the Liberty who are promoting themselves as activists. They're choosing to thrust themselves into politics... at least when it's convenient. They are at the forefront of talking about BLM and justice, but Joe Tsai suddenly defends the government when it comes to discussing Hong Kong. Look, I know the difference between those situations -- I'm not disagreeing with his behavior. I'm only pointing out that when you decide to step into the political area, you'd better be ready for greater scrutiny. Expect to be held to a higher standard. So yes, poking fun at them for what I view as an obvious gaffe is very much justified, If people disagree, well fine. But I'm not the one dragging the Liberty into politics.



_________________
You can always do something else.
root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 4:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For those who were asking, the Liberty are now selling single game tickets -- including for the home opener.

https://liberty.wnba.com/tickets/



_________________
You can always do something else.
Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18009
Location: Queens


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 5:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
Relax. It's not that serious. This Liberty thread is wild.


We've been like this for over 300 years, sir.

John Adams wrote:
“At their entertainments there is no conversation that is agreeable; there is no modesty, no attention to one another. They talk very loud, very fast, and altogether. If they ask you a question, before you can utter three words of your answer they will break out upon you again and talk away.”



_________________
All your Rebecca are belong to the Liberty.

(now with spelling variations)
Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18009
Location: Queens


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 5:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
So it's ok to have a mascot directly linked to the previous owner that everybody hates but it's not ok to have a mascot that sort of resembles another mascot of an organization that some people hate?


I admit to being surprised that people didn't connect the name Maddie to Madison Square Garden. Where did they think the name came from, sports talk radio? I've always assumed we were going to lose Maddie with the move; I'm just disappointed at the lack of forethought that went into Maddie's replacement.



_________________
All your Rebecca are belong to the Liberty.

(now with spelling variations)
johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1824



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 5:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
For those who were asking, the Liberty are now selling single game tickets -- including for the home opener.

https://liberty.wnba.com/tickets/


I only see the home opener. The rest on Ticketmaster are away games.


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 6:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
root_thing wrote:
For those who were asking, the Liberty are now selling single game tickets -- including for the home opener.

https://liberty.wnba.com/tickets/


I only see the home opener. The rest on Ticketmaster are away games.


You're right, I got faked out. The button/link name says "Single Tickets" and there are dates listed. Since I'm a STH, I only glanced at them. Maybe the team is waiting to receive official guidance on allowable attendance before making the other games available. The Nets are increasing to 25% on May 19th, but the Liberty start on the 14th. I believe the Nets are currently at 10%. Our rep said the Liberty are planning for 15%, but it might be for just the lower bowl. That leaves them at less than 10% for the whole arena.



_________________
You can always do something else.
root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 8:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:

I admit to being surprised that people didn't connect the name Maddie to Madison Square Garden. Where did they think the name came from, sports talk radio?


Why did we have to think anything? I never asked why is the mascot a dog? People in power do arbitrary things. Why did we have a mascot at all? The Knicks didn't have a mascot. When George Steinbrenner first bought the Yankees, he installed a clown as mid-inning entertainment. Then in 1979, there was an aborted attempt at a mascot. Dumb ideas from a powerful person. Now the Liberty are going to have an elephant based on Barnum's Brooklyn Bridge stunt, but named after Ellis Island. Does that make a lot of sense? Is it really better than suggestions from sports talk radio?



_________________
You can always do something else.
Luuuc
#NATC


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21893



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 8:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Wow, Luuuc, this is absolutely fascinating.

I admit that I am not so devoted to RebKell that I read every thread of discussion here. So if I am not aware of various things you've posted, Luuuc, please correct me wherever it's relevant.

I have NO memory of you taking a strong position on any of the following, whether on this New York Liberty thread or on other threads:

1. The New York Liberty being owned for a very long while by the sickening James Dolan, whom I like to call Hideous Lord Jimmy.

2. Hideous Lord Jimmy hiring sexual harasser Isiah Thomas as our team's president and trying to make him an owner.

3. The strong stand of the WNBA players against former owner She Who Will Not Be Named.

4. The "Say Her Name: Breonna Taylor" unprecedented year-long campaign by WNBA players.

5. The leadership and success of WNBA players in helping get Raphael Warnock into the U.S. Senate.

My positions on all five of these subjects are well known. I don't recall any comments from you, Luuuc, on these matters. But perhaps I missed them or perhaps my memory is faulty. So please enlighten me and everyone.

I wouldn't expect you to remember every opinion from every poster about every issue. I sure as hell don't. I've chipped in comments over the years on all 5 of the above. Obviously it was the Liberty-related ones I was alluding to with my previous post.
But just FYI I'm extremely pleased that the team has new ownership. In the NBA it has been kinda funny to me that the Knicks have been a running joke for so long. That franchise being a basket case doesn't put that league in jeopardy so I feel that way without any guilt.
The WNBA is a lot more fragile (and frankly, a lot more important to me personally) so I don't want it to have any basket case teams, let alone in the biggest markets. And more to the point although they've never been my #1 team I've had a soft spot for the Libs since virtually year 1. (so I'm slightly surprised you've never noticed me in NY threads).

Anyway on this particular topic, I really don't think a change of mascot is going to make a tangible negative difference to the franchise's fortunes. I think most people agree that this is not the most pressing issue right now.
So to me, breaking that link to the past is worth it, even though the link is a weak one. If I owned the team I would have done the same thing, because I think the symbolism matters more than whatever the consequences are of changing species of animal costume.
Even as only a partial Lib fan on the opposite side of the globe, I've been excited about the ownership change and everything that comes with it (and everything it leaves behind!), and therefore I've also been vicariously frustrated by how long it has taken for this fresh start to come to fruition. So I can only imagine what it has been like for actual local hard core fans.

Bob Lamm wrote:
As for the New York Liberty changing mascots, you seem to be accusing me of inconsistency, a double standard, perhaps hypocrisy, because I "object" to this move. Luuuc: your reading is downright sloppy

I think you might be reading just a little extra into my meaning on that one than what I intended.
I just assumed, extremely incorrectly, that you of all people here would enthusiastically support the cutting of another string to the HLJ era. But I'm really not accusing you of anything other than having a larger connection with Maddie than I expected, which is not at the death penalty end of the scale in my books. I don't believe that people who enjoy the antics of a person in a dog costume are sexual harassment excusers, just as I don't believe that people who dig Ellie should be on the FBI's watch list for insurrection.



_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
Luuuc
#NATC


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21893



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 8:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
Relax. It's not that serious. This Liberty thread is wild.

Going off on tangents is our secret for piling up pages. That's why our thread is always longer than everyone else. Shhhh! Wink

It ain't that wild. This forum has mellowed out to the point where it seems wild.

root_thing wrote:
Not to pile on Luuuc, whom I like, but just to clarify: I object to replacing Maddie but it is unrelated to tradition. For one thing, I don’t even see why sports franchises need a mascot -- just like I don’t see why we have to play the national anthem before sporting events. I’d be fine dispensing with both. And a few years ago, I loved the change when New York switched to sea foam green uniforms. I’ve always been partial to pastels, and I also like just about any shade of color in the blue-green family.

The reason I object to replacing Maddie is because he’s a darn good mascot. If you’re going to have one, being cute and funny is exactly what you want. I think Maddie is one of the best if not the very best mascot out there. This is primarily an argument about quality. The fact that he’s been around a long time is only a secondary reason. As for the change’s justification – that Maddie is named after Madison Square Garden – that’s something I didn’t even know. I just found out a couple of months ago when Myles Erhlich said he was going to write an article about it. I’ve been a diehard Liberty fan since 2006, and at least a casual fan since 1997. If I wasn’t aware, I’m sure most average fans didn’t know either. But now that I’m aware, it’s not like I look at Maddie and think to myself, “Well there’s a symbol of Madison Square Garden. How I long for the old regime!” Maddie has a personality and identity of his own. MSG does not come to mind at all.

Well if it's a battle of quality, then it seems only fair to give Ellie a chance to perform before declaring her (?) the inferior of the two.
I'll concede that Ellie starts the season at #2 on the power rankings based on having a name that is ... less than inspiring.



_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24320
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 9:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Well if it's a battle of quality, then it seems only fair to give Ellie a chance to perform before declaring her (?)...

They have apparently officially stated that Ellie is female, yes.



_________________
Independent WNBA coverage: http://www.wnbalien.com/
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 10:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My final post on this, Luuuc.

No comment from you on the strong stand of WNBA players against She Who Will Not Be Named. No comment from you on the players' "Say Her Name: Breonna Taylor" campaign. No comment from you on the players' leadership and activism to get Raphael Warnock into the U.S. Senate.

But once again you've distorted my position on the mascot issue. Why it's important for you to do this is way beyond me. For the THIRD time in this thread, I'll say: "I'm not one who cares much about team mascots."



_________________
Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
Lib Fan



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 4593
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/07/21 10:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OK Maddie or Ellie ..... Maddie

Now lets go to getting STH's Ticket info with the first
game less than a week away



_________________
Lets Go Liberty
Brooklyn 2021
Bring Back Maddie!
Luuuc
#NATC


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21893



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/08/21 12:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
My final post on this, Luuuc.
No comment from you on the strong stand of WNBA players against She Who Will Not Be Named. No comment from you on the players' "Say Her Name: Breonna Taylor" campaign. No comment from you on the players' leadership and activism to get Raphael Warnock into the U.S. Senate.

I've made numerous comments on those things in their respective threads, which you're welcome to revisit. This thread isn't really the place though.

Bob Lamm wrote:
But once again you've distorted my position on the mascot issue. Why it's important for you to do this is way beyond me. For the THIRD time in this thread, I'll say: "I'm not one who cares much about team mascots."

I'm not even commenting on your position. Whichever direction you lean an infinitesimally miniscule amount in, I had guessed that it would be the other one. That's it.



_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18009
Location: Queens


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/08/21 8:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib Fan wrote:
OK Maddie or Ellie ..... Maddie

Now lets go to getting STH's Ticket info with the first
game less than a week away


Yeah, apparently there's a major problem with them wanting to go to e-tickets and a big chunk of the STH base not having smartphones. And then there's the testing requirement and whether or not being vaccinated overrides that requirement. And now you've got Cuomo and deBlasio in a race to see who can reopen more of the city faster and thus screwing up the carefully planned logistics.



_________________
All your Rebecca are belong to the Liberty.

(now with spelling variations)
willtalk



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 1088
Location: NorCal


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/08/21 10:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

if they are going to have a mascot named Elli after Ellis Island lhey might as well have her dressed like the Statue of Liberty torch and all. I mean they are named the Liberty. so like USC's Traveler, she could circle the arena sith burning torch each time the team takes the lead while they play My country Tis of thee. . with emphasis on Sweet land of Liberty.



_________________
No one one is ever as good as their best game, nor as bad as their worst.
Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/08/21 11:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lady Liberty might look a bit too much like this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goddess_of_Democracy_(Hong_Kong)


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63548



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/09/21 12:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ionescu/Clarendon
Whitcomb/JJones/Durr
Laney
Allen/Onyenwere/Willoughby
Howard/Stokes



$890,137 Six guaranteed salaries
. 123,820 Two injury salaries
. 200,319 Three keeper salaries
$1,214,276 Total for eleven players

$1,339,000 2021 salary cap
$1,214,276 Salary for above players
. .$124,724 Remaining available salary
. . .$61,543 Salary for DiDi Richards
. . $63,181 Remaining available salary

So it seem like there’s enough space (assuming no unseen odds & ends) to cut Willoughby with pay and add another player at $63,181 or under. It’s not like somebody is gonna swoop up Willoughby (unless maybe they’re allowed to swoop her up and suspend her), and you can just invite her back to camp next year. This would give you 11 players.

Either that or just use the $124,724 for a more expensive player and go with ten players.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14097



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/09/21 1:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When is the last possible date Howard is playing overseas?



_________________
The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 30, 31, 32 ... 67, 68, 69  Next
Page 31 of 69

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin