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ClayK



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PostPosted: 05/04/21 4:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Milks26 wrote:
Hopefully the new asst is a former player of the 'W'


Just out of curiosity, why would a former player be better than a non-former player? Coaching and playing are two different skills ...



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 05/04/21 4:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

maybe the other one is her long lost cousin Laughing


myrtle



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PostPosted: 05/04/21 4:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Milks26 wrote:
Hopefully the new asst is a former player of the 'W'


Just out of curiosity, why would a former player be better than a non-former player? Coaching and playing are two different skills ...


I agree. But at the same time I think the right ex-player can develop a closer rapport with the team members, which can be an invaluable aspect of the process, especially when the other two coaches are older males. JMO. I guess you could hire someone to specifically do that without calling them an assistant but I think its helpful to have them with the authority of an AC.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/04/21 4:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
maybe the other one is her long lost cousin Laughing


They do kinda look similar. Smile



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PostPosted: 05/04/21 5:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Milks26 wrote:
Hopefully the new asst is a former player of the 'W'


Just out of curiosity, why would a former player be better than a non-former player? Coaching and playing are two different skills ...


I agree. But at the same time I think the right ex-player can develop a closer rapport with the team members, which can be an invaluable aspect of the process, especially when the other two coaches are older males. JMO. I guess you could hire someone to specifically do that without calling them an assistant but I think its helpful to have them with the authority of an AC.

Also, there are only so many coaching opportunities to go around, especially in the pros. A group that's predominantly black and female still struggle to get their foot in the door, which then leads to a smaller group that might develop elite skills in that job, and then a lot of old white men continuing to dominate jobs. If you're going to give someone a chance when it's a crapshoot - which it often is with the hiring of a second- or third-assistant - why not someone from an often-marginalised group that could help build the legacy of the league/game?



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dreamfan11



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PostPosted: 05/04/21 7:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
myrtle wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Milks26 wrote:
Hopefully the new asst is a former player of the 'W'


Just out of curiosity, why would a former player be better than a non-former player? Coaching and playing are two different skills ...


I agree. But at the same time I think the right ex-player can develop a closer rapport with the team members, which can be an invaluable aspect of the process, especially when the other two coaches are older males. JMO. I guess you could hire someone to specifically do that without calling them an assistant but I think its helpful to have them with the authority of an AC.

Also, there are only so many coaching opportunities to go around, especially in the pros. A group that's predominantly black and female still struggle to get their foot in the door, which then leads to a smaller group that might develop elite skills in that job, and then a lot of old white men continuing to dominate jobs. If you're going to give someone a chance when it's a crapshoot - which it often is with the hiring of a second- or third-assistant - why not someone from an often-marginalised group that could help build the legacy of the league/game?


I wonder if Renee has built a rapport with the team yet? Seems like she and the ownership group is a failure. Atlanta remains a joke in the W.


Milks26



Joined: 25 Mar 2021
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PostPosted: 05/04/21 8:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Milks26 wrote:
Hopefully the new asst is a former player of the 'W'


Just out of curiosity, why would a former player be better than a non-former player? Coaching and playing are two different skills ...


True. But, what's wrong with hiring someone who's qualified and actually played the game? Goes back to having those opportunities.



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RI_Sun_Fan



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PostPosted: 05/04/21 9:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Former Dream player Alison Bales for Dream HC, she would give almost all the players someone to look up to


mannman



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PostPosted: 05/04/21 11:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's a crazy idea, but why not see if Maya Moore is interested. She certainly has the pedigree, if she wants to.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 05/05/21 9:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Obviously the league needs to hire black women as coaches -- but I don't see why that pool should be artificially narrowed in the slightest to favor former WNBA players.

Can former WNBA players be excellent coaches? Of course. Can former overseas players be excellent coaches? Yes. Can former college players be excellent coaches? Yes.

Such jobs should go to the best qualified black female coaching candidate, I would think, not the best qualified black female coaching candidate who was also born with the physical gifts to play in the WNBA.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 05/05/21 10:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The available evidence does not support the notion that former players make great head coaches.

Let's look at the former players who have been head coaches...

Teresa Edwards went 2-21 trying to clean up after the Nolan Richardson debacle in Tulsa

Vickie Johnson went 8-26 in one season with the moribund SASS

Katie Smith went 17-51 in two disastrous seasons with the Liberty

Taj McWilliams went 1-2 in mop up duty after Fred Williams got canned in Dallas

Jen Gillom got the Lynx job on short notice when Don Zierden quit four days before the 2009 season. she wasn't retained but the Sparks snapped her up and she was there for a season and change. Overall record 31-47.

Jenny Boucek had a couple of decent seasons in Sacramento after John Whisenant retired. She later had a less successful run in Seattle. Overall record 76-99.

Cynthia Cooper was inexplicably fired after a good start to her second season in Phoenix brought her overall record to 19-23.

Suzie McConnell-Serio had a couple of decent seasons in Minnesota before the Katie Smith trade. She did less well afterwards to finish with an overall record of 58-67.

Nancy Lieberman led the expansion Shock to a surprising 17-13 mark in 1998. The team's record declined in each of her two subsequent seasons and she finished with an overall mark of 46-48.

Longtime Sparks GM Penny Toler took to the bench to finish out the 2014 season after Carol Ross was fired. She went 6-6.

Stephanie White had one good season and one mediocre one for Indiana before going to Vanderbilt. She is 37-31 overall.

Sandy Brondello has been the most successful former player turned coach. After one lost season in San Antonio she took over the Mercury following Corey Gaines' uneven tenure. Under her leadership they've been a perennial contender and won the title in 2014. She's 145-115 overall.

12 former players have gotten head coaching jobs. Only two have winning records. Even if you ignore Edwards, McWilliams, and Toler and their interim only stints the track record for former players isn't good. There's certainly no indication that they're inherently superior to coaches who didn't play at that level.



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Last edited by pilight on 05/05/21 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total
WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 05/05/21 11:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Coop coached Sacramento ? Or You mean Phoenix ? Heck you could mean Sacramento lol I oddly trust your history above mines Laughing Laughing Laughing



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Iluvacc



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PostPosted: 05/05/21 11:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Coop coached Sacramento ? Or You mean Phoenix ? Heck you could mean Sacramento lol I oddly trust your history above mines Laughing Laughing Laughing



Facts Laughing


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 05/05/21 1:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Iluvacc wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Coop coached Sacramento ? Or You mean Phoenix ? Heck you could mean Sacramento lol I oddly trust your history above mines Laughing Laughing Laughing



Facts Laughing

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pilight



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PostPosted: 05/05/21 2:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Coop coached Sacramento ? Or You mean Phoenix ? Heck you could mean Sacramento lol I oddly trust your history above mines Laughing Laughing Laughing


In this case you were right. I changed it.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 05/05/21 5:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
The available evidence does not support the notion that former players make great head coaches.

Let's look at the former players who have been head coaches...

Teresa Edwards went 2-21 trying to clean up after the Nolan Richardson debacle in Tulsa

Vickie Johnson went 8-26 in one season with the moribund SASS

Katie Smith went 17-51 in two disastrous seasons with the Liberty

Taj McWilliams went 1-2 in mop up duty after Fred Williams got canned in Dallas

Jen Gillom got the Lynx job on short notice when Don Zierden quit four days before the 2009 season. she wasn't retained but the Sparks snapped her up and she was there for a season and change. Overall record 31-47.

Jenny Boucek had a couple of decent seasons in Sacramento after John Whisenant retired. She later had a less successful run in Seattle. Overall record 76-99.

Cynthia Cooper was inexplicably fired after a good start to her second season in Phoenix brought her overall record to 19-23.

Suzie McConnell-Serio had a couple of decent seasons in Minnesota before the Katie Smith trade. She did less well afterwards to finish with an overall record of 58-67.

Nancy Lieberman led the expansion Shock to a surprising 17-13 mark in 1998. The team's record declined in each of her two subsequent seasons and she finished with an overall mark of 46-48.

Longtime Sparks GM Penny Toler took to the bench to finish out the 2014 season after Carol Ross was fired. She went 6-6.

Stephanie White had one good season and one mediocre one for Indiana before going to Vanderbilt. She is 37-31 overall.

Sandy Brondello has been the most successful former player turned coach. After one lost season in San Antonio she took over the Mercury following Corey Gaines' uneven tenure. Under her leadership they've been a perennial contender and won the title in 2014. She's 145-115 overall.

12 former players have gotten head coaching jobs. Only two have winning records. Even if you ignore Edwards, McWilliams, and Toler and their interim only stints the track record for former players isn't good. There's certainly no indication that they're inherently superior to coaches who didn't play at that level.


Excellent analysis, that raises another interesting question. Based on nothing but my intuition it seems like ultimately most coaches fail and get fired sooner or later (or get lucky and find a better job, only to ultimately get fired from that). It would be interesting to compare w/l record and total games coached for all WNBA coaches over time and see if there is a difference between former WNBA players who became coaches and coahces who never played in the WNBA. Most coaches probably played at least at some point in their lives so it should be limited to former WNBA players who became WNBA coaches (which may not be the case for everyone you listed). For every Cheryl Reeve there are probably multiple failures: Trudy Lacey's, Nolan Richardson, Amber Stocks, etc.

This might tell whether coaching is just a "crap shoot" as someone once said, or not.


pilight



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PostPosted: 05/05/21 5:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

About 30% of the coaches who have been head coaches in the W have winning records (26 out of 83).

The median coach in winning percentage is Fred Williams at .461. Among the former players, five are above that and seven are below.

Brondello is 30 games over .500. Only seven coaches in league history are that far over (Brondello, Chancellor, M Cooper, Laimbeer, Reeve, Thibault, Whisenant).



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 05/05/21 7:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ch. Parker was such a HUGE pickup for this team. They will be fun to watch. Today it's kind of a platoon system which will likely tighten up but they will have a good solid bench.


Randy



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PostPosted: 05/05/21 8:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
About 30% of the coaches who have been head coaches in the W have winning records (26 out of 83).

The median coach in winning percentage is Fred Williams at .461. Among the former players, five are above that and seven are below.

Brondello is 30 games over .500. Only seven coaches in league history are that far over (Brondello, Chancellor, M Cooper, Laimbeer, Reeve, Thibault, Whisenant).


Great stuff! Looks like 70% of all WNBA coaches have losing records. Looking at the records maybe the Dream should hire Cooper as the next HC..... Smile


pilight



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PostPosted: 05/05/21 8:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
pilight wrote:
About 30% of the coaches who have been head coaches in the W have winning records (26 out of 83).

The median coach in winning percentage is Fred Williams at .461. Among the former players, five are above that and seven are below.

Brondello is 30 games over .500. Only seven coaches in league history are that far over (Brondello, Chancellor, M Cooper, Laimbeer, Reeve, Thibault, Whisenant).


Great stuff! Looks like 70% of all WNBA coaches have losing records. Looking at the records maybe the Dream should hire Cooper as the next HC..... Smile


There are five exactly at .500, so it's about 62% under.



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lethalweapon3



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PostPosted: 05/07/21 6:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Petersen and Taylor will do fine with this crew.

Is there an issue with Bally's finalizing the regional TV schedules? I checked some of the other WNBA clubs with Bally's RSNs and their dates aren't set yet, either.

Also, can someone direct me to the Commissioner's Cup designated games? I consulted the WNBA Changemaker. who I am often told is my friend, but to no avail.

~lw3


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PostPosted: 05/08/21 3:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/B4qLwPZzNec" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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BamaEd



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PostPosted: 05/10/21 4:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://dream.wnba.com/news/all-black-female-broadcast-team-to-call-dream-home-games/

"Every Atlanta Dream home game will be called by an all-female broadcast team this season, as LaChina Robinson, Tabitha Turner and Angel Gray all return to the organization. They comprise the first all-Black, all-female broadcast group in the Dream’s history."

"The Atlanta Dream’s regional broadcast schedule will be announced in the coming days."


dreamfan11



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PostPosted: 05/10/21 7:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Good - just what Renee wanted - but lost their CFO in the process, they Dir of Ticket Sales, and a sales rep - more on the way. Is Renee running the day-too-day as promised? If so, there is a rebellion. Lots of people leaving. The team president lives in Boston - kind of tough to have a handle on things when you run another business every day in another state. But at least we have a broadcast team that is all women. It's always about the headlines - "first at this, first at that" - how about just put a good show together - I am not watching because of who is calling the game! No one to sell tickets, but TV should be awesome.


BamaEd



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PostPosted: 05/11/21 8:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dreamfan11 wrote:
Good - just what Renee wanted - but lost their CFO in the process, they Dir of Ticket Sales, and a sales rep - more on the way. Is Renee running the day-too-day as promised? If so, there is a rebellion. Lots of people leaving. The team president lives in Boston - kind of tough to have a handle on things when you run another business every day in another state. But at least we have a broadcast team that is all women. It's always about the headlines - "first at this, first at that" - how about just put a good show together - I am not watching because of who is calling the game! No one to sell tickets, but TV should be awesome.


Seems like there is some front office stuff/drama/upset from some longtime fans and maybe STHs that I am not privy to. But I have seen that you don't seem to be a fan of the new main owners or Renee in particular. I know with new ownership could come some front office changes. Sometimes this is done for the sake of change, sometimes needed, sometimes to try to start up a change. Hopefully it's all for the best in the end. I think it may still be a bit too early to see what all the change will entail. But if there is more tea to tell, I will definitely defer to you!

As for the broadcast team, I am super glad to see LaChina back calling the Dream games. I like her so much more on the Dream telecasts because ESPN makes you be a little too extra at times. They didn't announce yet where the games will air, but I'm hoping they will be back on Bally Sports South/Bally Sports Southeast (formerly the Fox Sports named ones).


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