RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

#15 Troy vs #2 Texas A&M - 3/22/21
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » NCAA Women's Basketball - Game Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 6565



Back to top
PostPosted: 03/22/21 7:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rebecca Lobo came out and said that it was a back court violation. No hesitation.



_________________
"The biggest antidote to his poison is the vote.” — Nancy Pelosi

"Our democracy is designed to speak truth to power." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

"If this guy can be Senator, you can do anything." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 62934
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/22/21 7:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tally24 wrote:
BamaEd wrote:
Renee did a great job staying professional while trying to contain the competitive player in her to come for that bad call.


That's what I was going to ask. Not about Renee, specifically, but if you could tell the announcers felt a type of way about the call. Or, if they acted like ESPN robots.


Montgomery immediately questioned the uncalled over-and-back



_________________
The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
huskiemaniac



Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 767
Location: NE CT


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/22/21 8:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Holy shit..Mr Blair and the Aggies can ease up on the "no respect" bs.

What a hideous display of officiating.

On the over and back- just so I'm clear, is there any "possession" angle that may preclude what looked like an obvious violation. IOW, the A&M player who dribbled once was not in clear possession of the ball at that moment. Does that even matter?

My thought is that it doesn't, but I want to be sure.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 62934
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/22/21 8:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rule 12.4

A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in their backcourt (with
any part of their body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball came from
the frontcourt while that player’s team was in team control and that player or
their teammate was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.



_________________
The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 56933



Back to top
PostPosted: 03/22/21 8:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They didn’t control it, did they?



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 62934
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/22/21 9:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
They didn’t control it, did they?


On an inbound pass the ball is in their team control



_________________
The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 4824
Location: Carson City


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/22/21 9:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

huskiemaniac wrote:
Holy shit..Mr Blair and the Aggies can ease up on the "no respect" bs.

What a hideous display of officiating.

On the over and back- just so I'm clear, is there any "possession" angle that may preclude what looked like an obvious violation. IOW, the A&M player who dribbled once was not in clear possession of the ball at that moment. Does that even matter?

My thought is that it doesn't, but I want to be sure.


The referee did signal that he saw the ball as being bobbled and therefore not controlled. The problem is that even if you accept that the initial touching did not constitute control the second touch was clearly a dribble while she was still in the front court.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 62934
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/22/21 9:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/DougFeinberg/status/1374181744442757121

Quote:
Pool statement: “This was an extremely close play. The officials judged that control of the basketball was not gained until the Texas A&M player was in the backcourt. It was as close as they come. No camera or person had a better angle on the play than the official,” Penny Davis.



_________________
The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 16252
Location: Queens


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/22/21 9:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Rebecca Lobo came out and said that it was a back court violation. No hesitation.


Did you see the play? I'm always curious what people who officiate/have officiated have to say about controversial calls. Y'all have a point of view the rest of us don't.



_________________
"The plan is insane. You are insane… I'll need some pants."
myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 28890



Back to top
PostPosted: 03/22/21 11:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In HS ball, where I reffed, that was clearly an over and back. From out of bounds the ball can be thrown into the backcourt, which is done all the time. But the player receiving the ball must be all the way in the backcourt, then dribble back into the front court. I've seen over and back called repeatedly on way less egregious plays. It is often called if the offensive player has the ball poked away in the front court by a defensive player, when the offensive player then even touches the ball before it goes over the half court line.

Amd as Pilight says, the team taking the ball out of bounds has it in their control.

OTOH: My coach always said to never put yourself in a situation where a bad ref call can lose you the game. Easier said than done of course. In this case, it's not certain that Troy would have scored. It's more likely A&M would still have won and we wouldn't be looking at this one bad call under a microscope.

Landers agreed with the call...but then we know he is an SEC shill.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 6886
Location: Heisenberg


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/23/21 1:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Rule 12.4

A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in their backcourt (with
any part of their body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball came from
the frontcourt while that player’s team was in team control and that player or
their teammate was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.


The call would be correct under the rule if the scenario is interpreted this way:

-- TAMU had team control when the ball was in the hands of the inbounder (Wells).

-- TAMU lost team control when #3 couldn't grab the inbounds pass and the ball bounced off her hands into the backcourt.

-- Hence, neither team had control of the ball when it entered the backcourt, and

-- either team could grab control in the back court without it being an over-and-back violation.

-- #3 legally took control of the ball in the backcourt, began dribbling, and got fouled.
WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 10556
Location: Dallas , Texas


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/23/21 8:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31117767/troy-women-basketball-coach-chanda-rigby-says-missed-call-cost-no-15-seed-trojans-historic-upset


Quote:
Troy coach Chanda Rigby said a missed call late in an 84-80 loss Monday to No. 2 seed Texas A&M cost the No. 15 seed Trojans a shot at a historic upset in the NCAA women's basketball tournament.



_________________
3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 6565



Back to top
PostPosted: 03/23/21 8:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
Rebecca Lobo came out and said that it was a back court violation. No hesitation.


Did you see the play? I'm always curious what people who officiate/have officiated have to say about controversial calls. Y'all have a point of view the rest of us don't.


I was fixing supper at the time (I know, I know, but I wasn't expecting them to re-start so soon and it had been a long time since lunch.) I did see one replay. I'd like to see it again, but I thought that she did have control in the front court. Kind of like a football receiver that makes that 'purposeful' move after the catch and before the fumble, I thought that she made a 'purposeful' dribble that took her and the ball into the backcourt. I'd say a violation.



_________________
"The biggest antidote to his poison is the vote.” — Nancy Pelosi

"Our democracy is designed to speak truth to power." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

"If this guy can be Senator, you can do anything." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Tally24



Joined: 14 Feb 2012
Posts: 2452
Location: Baton Rouge


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/23/21 9:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
Rebecca Lobo came out and said that it was a back court violation. No hesitation.


Did you see the play? I'm always curious what people who officiate/have officiated have to say about controversial calls. Y'all have a point of view the rest of us don't.


I was fixing supper at the time (I know, I know, but I wasn't expecting them to re-start so soon and it had been a long time since lunch.) I did see one replay. I'd like to see it again, but I thought that she did have control in the front court. Kind of like a football receiver that makes that 'purposeful' move after the catch and before the fumble, I thought that she made a 'purposeful' dribble that took her and the ball into the backcourt. I'd say a violation.


Here's a link to the replay. I thought it was an obvious over and back call after seeing it.

https://twitter.com/spencernusbaum_/status/1374154776640950278?s=20
RavenDog



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 6191



Back to top
PostPosted: 03/23/21 9:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The over and back along with the two other bad calls late in the game definitely benefited the Aggies. Too bad, those trojans played their asses off.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 56933



Back to top
PostPosted: 03/23/21 9:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
They didn’t control it, did they?


On an inbound pass the ball is in their team control


They’re allowed to throw it into the backcourt on the inbound pass. You’re reasoning would make that a violation. The ball deflected off the player’s hand so it wasn’t controlled establishing possession until it was dribbled just past the half court line.

The ref was standing right on the half court line staring at the play. I have to assume he knows the rules better than the fans and game commentators.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
undersized_post



Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 960
Location: midwest/indiana/iowa


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/23/21 10:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:

I thought that she did have control in the front court. Kind of like a football receiver that makes that 'purposeful' move after the catch and before the fumble, I thought that she made a 'purposeful' dribble that took her and the ball into the backcourt. I'd say a violation.


Exactly. After an initial deflection (which is already enough for most refs to call a backcourt violation), the A&M player began a controlled dribble while her feet where still in the front court. Then went into the backcourt. A clear violation.


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 6377
Location: Shenandoah Valley


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/23/21 11:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:

I thought that she did have control in the front court. Kind of like a football receiver that makes that 'purposeful' move after the catch and before the fumble, I thought that she made a 'purposeful' dribble that took her and the ball into the backcourt. I'd say a violation.


Exactly. After an initial deflection (which is already enough for most refs to call a backcourt violation), the A&M player began a controlled dribble while her feet where still in the front court. Then went into the backcourt. A clear violation.


Yup. They even replayed it. And there were some other "questionable" calls against Troy too. It's like the refs decided TAMU should win. Really appalling. Troy clearly played better in this game.



_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 6886
Location: Heisenberg


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/23/21 3:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
I'd like to see it again, but I thought that she did have control in the front court. Kind of like a football receiver that makes that 'purposeful' move after the catch and before the fumble, I thought that she made a 'purposeful' dribble that took her and the ball into the backcourt. I'd say a violation.


I think that's the issue--whether, when the inbound pass deflected off #3's hands, that was the beginning of a purposeful dribble by her or a loss of control by her. I think it was a loss of control because the ball just seemed to bounce off her outstretched two hands, and hence it was a correct call by the refs, but a very close and judgment call.
mzonefan



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 3970
Location: Ann Arbor, MI


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/23/21 3:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lobo’s follow-up today on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rebeccalobo/status/1374375213933105164?s=21


BamaEd



Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 606
Location: United States


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/23/21 4:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mzonefan wrote:
Lobo’s follow-up today on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rebeccalobo/status/1374375213933105164?s=21


I agree with Rebecca and it sounds like most folks do. I hate that it wasn't reviewable. I agree also that there were a few questionable calls in that last 90 seconds. Do I think Troy would have absolutely won? Dunno, but they should have been the ones deciding it, not the refs.


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 4591



Back to top
PostPosted: 03/23/21 4:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:

I thought that she did have control in the front court. Kind of like a football receiver that makes that 'purposeful' move after the catch and before the fumble, I thought that she made a 'purposeful' dribble that took her and the ball into the backcourt. I'd say a violation.


Exactly. After an initial deflection (which is already enough for most refs to call a backcourt violation), the A&M player began a controlled dribble while her feet where still in the front court. Then went into the backcourt. A clear violation.


Yup. They even replayed it. And there were some other "questionable" calls against Troy too. It's like the refs decided TAMU should win. Really appalling. Troy clearly played better in this game.


It would be interesting to know if there is any NCAA structure to review officials' performances? It might be that games that are upsets get looked at more closely and if so there may be an unconscious motivation among refs to have the favorite win.
If the NCAA is consistent in the way they handle the planning they have hired some numbscull and his equipment is 2 VHS players.


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 6377
Location: Shenandoah Valley


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/23/21 6:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:

I thought that she did have control in the front court. Kind of like a football receiver that makes that 'purposeful' move after the catch and before the fumble, I thought that she made a 'purposeful' dribble that took her and the ball into the backcourt. I'd say a violation.


Exactly. After an initial deflection (which is already enough for most refs to call a backcourt violation), the A&M player began a controlled dribble while her feet where still in the front court. Then went into the backcourt. A clear violation.


Yup. They even replayed it. And there were some other "questionable" calls against Troy too. It's like the refs decided TAMU should win. Really appalling. Troy clearly played better in this game.


It would be interesting to know if there is any NCAA structure to review officials' performances? It might be that games that are upsets get looked at more closely and if so there may be an unconscious motivation among refs to have the favorite win.
If the NCAA is consistent in the way they handle the planning they have hired some numbscull and his equipment is 2 VHS players.


There should be. And I guarantee you if there is it will be on the men's side. (feeling snarky about this.) I'm beginning to wonder if they hired some of these guys out of the CAA.



_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » NCAA Women's Basketball - Game Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin