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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 8973
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Posted: 03/22/21 7:56 pm ::: |
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Rebecca Lobo came out and said that it was a back court violation. No hesitation.
_________________ "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67051 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 03/22/21 7:57 pm ::: |
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Tally24 wrote: |
BamaEd wrote: |
Renee did a great job staying professional while trying to contain the competitive player in her to come for that bad call. |
That's what I was going to ask. Not about Renee, specifically, but if you could tell the announcers felt a type of way about the call. Or, if they acted like ESPN robots. |
Montgomery immediately questioned the uncalled over-and-back
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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huskiemaniac
Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 1050 Location: NE CT
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Posted: 03/22/21 8:44 pm ::: |
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Holy shit..Mr Blair and the Aggies can ease up on the "no respect" bs.
What a hideous display of officiating.
On the over and back- just so I'm clear, is there any "possession" angle that may preclude what looked like an obvious violation. IOW, the A&M player who dribbled once was not in clear possession of the ball at that moment. Does that even matter?
My thought is that it doesn't, but I want to be sure.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67051 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 03/22/21 8:56 pm ::: |
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Rule 12.4
A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in their backcourt (with
any part of their body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball came from
the frontcourt while that player’s team was in team control and that player or
their teammate was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63869
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Posted: 03/22/21 8:59 pm ::: |
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They didn’t control it, did they?
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67051 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 03/22/21 9:01 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
They didn’t control it, did they? |
On an inbound pass the ball is in their team control
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5167 Location: Carson City
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Posted: 03/22/21 9:07 pm ::: |
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huskiemaniac wrote: |
Holy shit..Mr Blair and the Aggies can ease up on the "no respect" bs.
What a hideous display of officiating.
On the over and back- just so I'm clear, is there any "possession" angle that may preclude what looked like an obvious violation. IOW, the A&M player who dribbled once was not in clear possession of the ball at that moment. Does that even matter?
My thought is that it doesn't, but I want to be sure. |
The referee did signal that he saw the ball as being bobbled and therefore not controlled. The problem is that even if you accept that the initial touching did not constitute control the second touch was clearly a dribble while she was still in the front court.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67051 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 03/22/21 9:45 pm ::: |
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https://twitter.com/DougFeinberg/status/1374181744442757121
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Pool statement: “This was an extremely close play. The officials judged that control of the basketball was not gained until the Texas A&M player was in the backcourt. It was as close as they come. No camera or person had a better angle on the play than the official,” Penny Davis. |
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18055 Location: Queens
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Posted: 03/22/21 9:47 pm ::: |
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Ex-Ref wrote: |
Rebecca Lobo came out and said that it was a back court violation. No hesitation. |
Did you see the play? I'm always curious what people who officiate/have officiated have to say about controversial calls. Y'all have a point of view the rest of us don't.
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 03/22/21 11:12 pm ::: |
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In HS ball, where I reffed, that was clearly an over and back. From out of bounds the ball can be thrown into the backcourt, which is done all the time. But the player receiving the ball must be all the way in the backcourt, then dribble back into the front court. I've seen over and back called repeatedly on way less egregious plays. It is often called if the offensive player has the ball poked away in the front court by a defensive player, when the offensive player then even touches the ball before it goes over the half court line.
Amd as Pilight says, the team taking the ball out of bounds has it in their control.
OTOH: My coach always said to never put yourself in a situation where a bad ref call can lose you the game. Easier said than done of course. In this case, it's not certain that Troy would have scored. It's more likely A&M would still have won and we wouldn't be looking at this one bad call under a microscope.
Landers agreed with the call...but then we know he is an SEC shill.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8248 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 03/23/21 1:36 am ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
Rule 12.4
A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in their backcourt (with
any part of their body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball came from
the frontcourt while that player’s team was in team control and that player or
their teammate was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt. |
The call would be correct under the rule if the scenario is interpreted this way:
-- TAMU had team control when the ball was in the hands of the inbounder (Wells).
-- TAMU lost team control when #3 couldn't grab the inbounds pass and the ball bounced off her hands into the backcourt.
-- Hence, neither team had control of the ball when it entered the backcourt, and
-- either team could grab control in the back court without it being an over-and-back violation.
-- #3 legally took control of the ball in the backcourt, began dribbling, and got fouled. |
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12569 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 8973
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Posted: 03/23/21 8:26 am ::: |
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Queenie wrote: |
Ex-Ref wrote: |
Rebecca Lobo came out and said that it was a back court violation. No hesitation. |
Did you see the play? I'm always curious what people who officiate/have officiated have to say about controversial calls. Y'all have a point of view the rest of us don't. |
I was fixing supper at the time (I know, I know, but I wasn't expecting them to re-start so soon and it had been a long time since lunch.) I did see one replay. I'd like to see it again, but I thought that she did have control in the front court. Kind of like a football receiver that makes that 'purposeful' move after the catch and before the fumble, I thought that she made a 'purposeful' dribble that took her and the ball into the backcourt. I'd say a violation.
_________________ "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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Tally24
Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Posts: 2709 Location: Baton Rouge
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Posted: 03/23/21 9:17 am ::: |
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Ex-Ref wrote: |
Queenie wrote: |
Ex-Ref wrote: |
Rebecca Lobo came out and said that it was a back court violation. No hesitation. |
Did you see the play? I'm always curious what people who officiate/have officiated have to say about controversial calls. Y'all have a point of view the rest of us don't. |
I was fixing supper at the time (I know, I know, but I wasn't expecting them to re-start so soon and it had been a long time since lunch.) I did see one replay. I'd like to see it again, but I thought that she did have control in the front court. Kind of like a football receiver that makes that 'purposeful' move after the catch and before the fumble, I thought that she made a 'purposeful' dribble that took her and the ball into the backcourt. I'd say a violation. |
Here's a link to the replay. I thought it was an obvious over and back call after seeing it.
https://twitter.com/spencernusbaum_/status/1374154776640950278?s=20 |
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Posts: 6885 Location: Home
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Posted: 03/23/21 9:45 am ::: |
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The over and back along with the two other bad calls late in the game definitely benefited the Aggies. Too bad, those trojans played their asses off.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63869
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Posted: 03/23/21 9:55 am ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
Shades wrote: |
They didn’t control it, did they? |
On an inbound pass the ball is in their team control |
They’re allowed to throw it into the backcourt on the inbound pass. You’re reasoning would make that a violation. The ball deflected off the player’s hand so it wasn’t controlled establishing possession until it was dribbled just past the half court line.
The ref was standing right on the half court line staring at the play. I have to assume he knows the rules better than the fans and game commentators.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021 Posts: 2864
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Posted: 03/23/21 10:23 am ::: |
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Ex-Ref wrote: |
I thought that she did have control in the front court. Kind of like a football receiver that makes that 'purposeful' move after the catch and before the fumble, I thought that she made a 'purposeful' dribble that took her and the ball into the backcourt. I'd say a violation. |
Exactly. After an initial deflection (which is already enough for most refs to call a backcourt violation), the A&M player began a controlled dribble while her feet where still in the front court. Then went into the backcourt. A clear violation.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7860 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 03/23/21 11:01 am ::: |
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undersized_post wrote: |
Ex-Ref wrote: |
I thought that she did have control in the front court. Kind of like a football receiver that makes that 'purposeful' move after the catch and before the fumble, I thought that she made a 'purposeful' dribble that took her and the ball into the backcourt. I'd say a violation. |
Exactly. After an initial deflection (which is already enough for most refs to call a backcourt violation), the A&M player began a controlled dribble while her feet where still in the front court. Then went into the backcourt. A clear violation. |
Yup. They even replayed it. And there were some other "questionable" calls against Troy too. It's like the refs decided TAMU should win. Really appalling. Troy clearly played better in this game.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8248 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 03/23/21 3:28 pm ::: |
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Ex-Ref wrote: |
I'd like to see it again, but I thought that she did have control in the front court. Kind of like a football receiver that makes that 'purposeful' move after the catch and before the fumble, I thought that she made a 'purposeful' dribble that took her and the ball into the backcourt. I'd say a violation. |
I think that's the issue--whether, when the inbound pass deflected off #3's hands, that was the beginning of a purposeful dribble by her or a loss of control by her. I think it was a loss of control because the ball just seemed to bounce off her outstretched two hands, and hence it was a correct call by the refs, but a very close and judgment call. |
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 4878 Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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BamaEd
Joined: 11 May 2014 Posts: 859 Location: United States
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Posted: 03/23/21 4:20 pm ::: |
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I agree with Rebecca and it sounds like most folks do. I hate that it wasn't reviewable. I agree also that there were a few questionable calls in that last 90 seconds. Do I think Troy would have absolutely won? Dunno, but they should have been the ones deciding it, not the refs.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012 Posts: 5424
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Posted: 03/23/21 4:37 pm ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
undersized_post wrote: |
Ex-Ref wrote: |
I thought that she did have control in the front court. Kind of like a football receiver that makes that 'purposeful' move after the catch and before the fumble, I thought that she made a 'purposeful' dribble that took her and the ball into the backcourt. I'd say a violation. |
Exactly. After an initial deflection (which is already enough for most refs to call a backcourt violation), the A&M player began a controlled dribble while her feet where still in the front court. Then went into the backcourt. A clear violation. |
Yup. They even replayed it. And there were some other "questionable" calls against Troy too. It's like the refs decided TAMU should win. Really appalling. Troy clearly played better in this game. |
It would be interesting to know if there is any NCAA structure to review officials' performances? It might be that games that are upsets get looked at more closely and if so there may be an unconscious motivation among refs to have the favorite win.
If the NCAA is consistent in the way they handle the planning they have hired some numbscull and his equipment is 2 VHS players.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7860 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 03/23/21 6:31 pm ::: |
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linkster wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
undersized_post wrote: |
Ex-Ref wrote: |
I thought that she did have control in the front court. Kind of like a football receiver that makes that 'purposeful' move after the catch and before the fumble, I thought that she made a 'purposeful' dribble that took her and the ball into the backcourt. I'd say a violation. |
Exactly. After an initial deflection (which is already enough for most refs to call a backcourt violation), the A&M player began a controlled dribble while her feet where still in the front court. Then went into the backcourt. A clear violation. |
Yup. They even replayed it. And there were some other "questionable" calls against Troy too. It's like the refs decided TAMU should win. Really appalling. Troy clearly played better in this game. |
It would be interesting to know if there is any NCAA structure to review officials' performances? It might be that games that are upsets get looked at more closely and if so there may be an unconscious motivation among refs to have the favorite win.
If the NCAA is consistent in the way they handle the planning they have hired some numbscull and his equipment is 2 VHS players. |
There should be. And I guarantee you if there is it will be on the men's side. (feeling snarky about this.) I'm beginning to wonder if they hired some of these guys out of the CAA.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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