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PUmatty
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okstateguy
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 Posted: 03/17/21 9:40 am ::: |
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After all the rumors coming out of the program the past 6 years from former players, the alleged favoring of her son over more seasoned assistant coaches, and the on court results the past few years, it wouldn't surprise me if the AD helped push her in this decision so he wouldn't have to fire a local legend.
All that speculation said, in her prime she was a force. Could coach big or small, slower or fast paced. Not sure when the disconnect happened, but she had a heckuva run.
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PUmatty
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| Posted: 03/17/21 9:44 am ::: |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
After all the rumors coming out of the program the past 6 years from former players, the alleged favoring of her son over more seasoned assistant coaches, and the on court results the past few years, it wouldn't surprise me if the AD helped push her in this decision so he wouldn't have to fire a local legend.
All that speculation said, in her prime she was a force. Could coach big or small, slower or fast paced. Not sure when the disconnect happened, but she had a heckuva run. |
I have to think so too. She is very young to "retire" (56), though she has made a lot of money.
I wonder if we will see her somewhere in two or three years?
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/17/21 10:57 am ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| okstateguy wrote: |
After all the rumors coming out of the program the past 6 years from former players, the alleged favoring of her son over more seasoned assistant coaches, and the on court results the past few years, it wouldn't surprise me if the AD helped push her in this decision so he wouldn't have to fire a local legend.
All that speculation said, in her prime she was a force. Could coach big or small, slower or fast paced. Not sure when the disconnect happened, but she had a heckuva run. |
I have to think so too. She is very young to "retire" (56), though she has made a lot of money.
I wonder if we will see her somewhere in two or three years? |
I thought so too, until one of our most knowledgeable posters on here, Camrncrz told me that "she is under contract until 2024, with an annual salary of $1.33 minion. Buyout would gave been huge."
Maybe she did just wanted to retire. Who wouldn't want to retire at 56? I know I would.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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SDHoops
Joined: 09 Nov 2007
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| Posted: 03/17/21 11:37 am ::: |
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| She definitely had one of the best decades for a college coach, regardless of gender, during the 2000-2010 decade. After that is seemed like the program was in a slow decline and never recovered..it didn't help that Dungee left and revived an Arkansas program into a contender. I'm sure pressure mounted after the racial insensitivity she was accused of as well. Props to her for her accomplishments including former WBCA Prez..hope the next coach will get the program back to Big 12 relevancy
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WNBA 09
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| Posted: 03/17/21 11:57 am ::: |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
After all the rumors coming out of the program the past 6 years from former players, the alleged favoring of her son over more seasoned assistant coaches, and the on court results the past few years, it wouldn't surprise me if the AD helped push her in this decision so he wouldn't have to fire a local legend.
All that speculation said, in her prime she was a force. Could coach big or small, slower or fast paced. Not sure when the disconnect happened, but she had a heckuva run. |
X_______ Thanks Sheri !! You gave us some great years in WCBB . The ladder not so much but with Stacey Dales , The Paris Twins , Laneisha Caufield , D Rob . You are certified !!
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bucks4now
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
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| Posted: 03/17/21 12:51 pm ::: |
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I enjoyed watching her teams.
I would think that some of the decline goes hand and hand with the hire of Kim Mulkey.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/17/21 2:41 pm ::: |
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| bucks4now wrote: |
I enjoyed watching her teams.
I would think that some of the decline goes hand and hand with the hire of Kim Mulkey. |
Not really. Coale started at Oklahoma five years before Baylor started at Mulkey. She got to her first NCAA tournament one whole year before Mulkey did, and led Oklahoma to two Final Fours after Baylor won their first title.
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okstateguy
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| Posted: 03/17/21 5:16 pm ::: |
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| bucks4now wrote: |
I enjoyed watching her teams.
I would think that some of the decline goes hand and hand with the hire of Kim Mulkey. |
Her downfall started once the Budke/Blair/Mulkey fast paced, athleticism focus took over the Texas Tech/K-State/Iowa State fundamentals focus in Big 12 play. Once she lost her ability to recruit the athletic players, which she was able to initially, the teams that did passed her up.
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 03/17/21 9:50 pm ::: |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
| bucks4now wrote: |
I enjoyed watching her teams.
I would think that some of the decline goes hand and hand with the hire of Kim Mulkey. |
Her downfall started once the Budke/Blair/Mulkey fast paced, athleticism focus took over the Texas Tech/K-State/Iowa State fundamentals focus in Big 12 play. Once she lost her ability to recruit the athletic players, which she was able to initially, the teams that did passed her up. |
If you look at the teams she had with a superstar (Stacey Dales, Courtney Paris, Danielle Robinson) she was great. She never did better than middling with teams with average talent. She also had the benefit of the Big 12 being a mess outside of Baylor for a while there. They had back-to-back seasons finishing tied for 2nd and 3rd and lost 7 and 8 conference games those seasons, respectively. Her inability to recruit star talent has really exposed her in-game coaching flaws over the last few years. I don't dislike her, but I'm not so surprised to see her getting a little nudge out the door.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/17/21 10:12 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| She is very young to "retire" (56) |
After 25 years as a state employee she might be eligible for a pension
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PUmatty
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| Posted: 03/17/21 10:35 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| She is very young to "retire" (56) |
After 25 years as a state employee she might be eligible for a pension |
Regardless of pension, she has made a fortune.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 03/17/21 11:13 pm ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
| Her inability to recruit star talent (and) has really exposed her in-game coaching flaws over the last few years. I don't dislike her, but I'm not so surprised to see her getting a little nudge out the door. |
I can't put those 2 ideas together: I never saw many "coaching flaws" in the many seasons I followed them closely. She could coach a box o' rocks to a winning season with good talent, mediocre talent, or stellar talent. She made the best of what she had. Remember just recently, she had her rag-tag freshmen class playing UConn in OK, leading them by 10 at the end of the third quarter.
Her "inability to recruit star talent" is a more recent thing -- she obviously drew some top tier talent there. But that definitely waned. And the other odd thing was that, while she WAS getting some big names, they started transferring out -- Nicole Kornet, Chelsea Dungee, Shaina Pellington, Nancy Mulkey -- I believe there was some nefarious dynamic happening that didn't come out in the wash completely, and it kind of sealed her fate in the mediocrity range.
Frankly, I want to believe that Sherri has always had a higher-than-average level of integrity. (I know one exception I'd heard of through Hoopsmom here was a bit heartbreaking for a player who transferred out of OK to SD). But I believe Sherry doesn't have a terminal ego, where she'd claw back til they had to drag her out: she recognizes the magnitude of what she's accomplished, realizes it only going to wane from this point onward, so leave while you're still remembered fondly. God Bless her for this graciousness.
And yeah....she's young enough that she could contribute significantly in various avenues for this game we love.
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021
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| Posted: 03/18/21 10:06 am ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| Her inability to recruit star talent (and) has really exposed her in-game coaching flaws over the last few years. I don't dislike her, but I'm not so surprised to see her getting a little nudge out the door. |
I can't put those 2 ideas together: I never saw many "coaching flaws" in the many seasons I followed them closely. She could coach a box o' rocks to a winning season with good talent, mediocre talent, or stellar talent. She made the best of what she had. Remember just recently, she had her rag-tag freshmen class playing UConn in OK, leading them by 10 at the end of the third quarter.
Her "inability to recruit star talent" is a more recent thing -- she obviously drew some top tier talent there. But that definitely waned. And the other odd thing was that, while she WAS getting some big names, they started transferring out -- Nicole Kornet, Chelsea Dungee, Shaina Pellington, Nancy Mulkey -- I believe there was some nefarious dynamic happening that didn't come out in the wash completely, and it kind of sealed her fate in the mediocrity range.
Frankly, I want to believe that Sherri has always had a higher-than-average level of integrity. (I know one exception I'd heard of through Hoopsmom here was a bit heartbreaking for a player who transferred out of OK to SD). But I believe Sherry doesn't have a terminal ego, where she'd claw back til they had to drag her out: she recognizes the magnitude of what she's accomplished, realizes it only going to wane from this point onward, so leave while you're still remembered fondly. God Bless her for this graciousness.
And yeah....she's young enough that she could contribute significantly in various avenues for this game we love. |
About the time the player who transferred to SD decomitted from OK State to sign with OU, Chaunte Embry(who was considered one of he top recruits in the 2021 class at the time) also decomitted from OK State. At the time, an assistant coach went on a radio program and basically said in the case of Embry, that another program's coaches had made some false insinuations about OK State. I remember there being a lot of speculation at this time that the opposing program who did so might be OU.
I can't really speak in absolutes because none of us are there 24/7 to know the entire truth, but I have checked the past 24 hours, and have only been able to find 4 current players who have commented on the instagram post, made an instagram post, or tweeted/retweeted about the announcement. Liz Scott commented thank you coach on instagram, Madi Williams retweeted a post her mom made. 2 others just retweeted it. I could just be missing the massive outpour of love from the current roster. Haven't seen any recent transfers make note about it. Her "glory days" players are commenting in depth. That alone makes me wonder if:
a) a lot of the accusations that have come out these past couple of years are true, or
b)if the administration felt like she just wasn't going to have success with this current crops of kids, and the ones coming up.
If b) it wouldn't surprise me if she was handed another position within the university.
If everything I written about can be explained with an obvious answer, then I hope she enjoys the retirement she wanted and deserves
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okstateguy
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| Posted: 03/18/21 10:23 am ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
| okstateguy wrote: |
| bucks4now wrote: |
I enjoyed watching her teams.
I would think that some of the decline goes hand and hand with the hire of Kim Mulkey. |
Her downfall started once the Budke/Blair/Mulkey fast paced, athleticism focus took over the Texas Tech/K-State/Iowa State fundamentals focus in Big 12 play. Once she lost her ability to recruit the athletic players, which she was able to initially, the teams that did passed her up. |
If you look at the teams she had with a superstar (Stacey Dales, Courtney Paris, Danielle Robinson) she was great. She never did better than middling with teams with average talent. She also had the benefit of the Big 12 being a mess outside of Baylor for a while there. They had back-to-back seasons finishing tied for 2nd and 3rd and lost 7 and 8 conference games those seasons, respectively. Her inability to recruit star talent has really exposed her in-game coaching flaws over the last few years. I don't dislike her, but I'm not so surprised to see her getting a little nudge out the door. |
She's had a few top 30 recruits during this time period. The issue with 99% of them? They don't have enough speed or athleticism to be really successful in the Big 12, even in it's current weak state. She's had more Top 100 recruits than about 6 of the Big 12 teams over the past 8 recruiting classes(which covers the period at hand). Yes, many of those transferred out, but that was also the same with OK State and their Top 100 recruits during this time period.
In a league that began evolving during her prime, she initially got the recruits to compete. When the league went physical, "beat you with athletes, she brought in her D-Rob, Amanda Thompson types. But after a few seasons of that, she reverted back to players with average athleticism, who just can't really hang with most of the Big 12 talent. Madi Williams and the Tot girl are the only ones that come to mind that broke this mold.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 03/18/21 12:04 pm ::: |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
| In a league that began evolving during her prime, she initially got the recruits to compete. |
That's the odd part: she DID have considerable success, being at or near the top of the Big12, when it WAS stronger. That alone should have helped recruit elite talent, but it didn't translate to that. Yet, she DID do quite well with kids that weren't really Big Star material: Gioya Carter, Whitney Hand, Nicole Griffin, Morgan Hook, Vionnise Pierre-Louis, Kaylon Williams, Carly Rothlisberger, Amanda Thompson, etc.
Lots of factors, many of which we'll never know fully, play into this kind of dynamic. Maybe it's just an inevitability for some coaches....kinda like Jim Foster, or Andy Landers: Time earned in the spotlight wanes to mediocrity, eventually. Exit, stage left.
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robertoclementeforever
Joined: 18 Dec 2020
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| Posted: 03/18/21 2:49 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| Her inability to recruit star talent (and) has really exposed her in-game coaching flaws over the last few years. I don't dislike her, but I'm not so surprised to see her getting a little nudge out the door. |
I can't put those 2 ideas together: I never saw many "coaching flaws" in the many seasons I followed them closely. She could coach a box o' rocks to a winning season with good talent, mediocre talent, or stellar talent. She made the best of what she had. Remember just recently, she had her rag-tag freshmen class playing UConn in OK, leading them by 10 at the end of the third quarter.
Her "inability to recruit star talent" is a more recent thing -- she obviously drew some top tier talent there. But that definitely waned. And the other odd thing was that, while she WAS getting some big names, they started transferring out -- Nicole Kornet, Chelsea Dungee, Shaina Pellington, Nancy Mulkey -- I believe there was some nefarious dynamic happening that didn't come out in the wash completely, and it kind of sealed her fate in the mediocrity range.
Frankly, I want to believe that Sherri has always had a higher-than-average level of integrity. (I know one exception I'd heard of through Hoopsmom here was a bit heartbreaking for a player who transferred out of OK to SD). But I believe Sherry doesn't have a terminal ego, where she'd claw back til they had to drag her out: she recognizes the magnitude of what she's accomplished, realizes it only going to wane from this point onward, so leave while you're still remembered fondly. God Bless her for this graciousness.
And yeah....she's young enough that she could contribute significantly in various avenues for this game we love. |
I have also followed Sherri's career and quite frankly she owes her rise to prominence to Geno's mentorship. Sherri's coaching abilities are mediocre at best. Despite her Program's run, she was never an Elite Coach. Unable to win a NC with the Paris sisters and Robinson at the point. Mulkey, Geno, Muffit, Blair and Vanderveer but to name a few would have created a national powerhouse with that talent.
Geno gave Sherri national exposure. He recommended Sherri to USA basketball as one of his assistants when other more deserving coaches were available. Oklahoma became a staple of UConn's out of conference scheduling and enjoyed virtual exclusivity after the Tennessee rivalry ceased. Oklahoma had more national exposure than any other Program besides Tenn and Notre Dame.
However, unlike Tenn or Notre Dame, Oklahoma was never able to mount a competitive effort against the Huskies. Blowouts of 30-40 points were the norm. The relationship became unsustainable and Coale, while cementing her position at Oklahoma, had other issues with Conference foes like Baylor and Texas to contend with.
There have been credible reporting of issues related to racism and nepotism against Coale. Without discounting these matters, I would argue that the Program had run its course with a Coach that had reached her Peter Principle. Good looks can only carry you so far without an elite coaching skill set.
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Howee
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ClayK
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| Posted: 03/18/21 5:46 pm ::: |
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Sherri Coale saved, apparently, Oklahoma's program, and won lots of games when she had good players.
But for whatever reason, her recruiting fell off, and with it, her success.
Just one more bit of evidence for the theory that successful college coaching is recruiting, recruiting, recruiting, recruiting, some Xs and Os, and then more recruiting.
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021
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| Posted: 03/18/21 10:10 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| okstateguy wrote: |
| In a league that began evolving during her prime, she initially got the recruits to compete. |
That's the odd part: she DID have considerable success, being at or near the top of the Big12, when it WAS stronger. That alone should have helped recruit elite talent, but it didn't translate to that. Yet, she DID do quite well with kids that weren't really Big Star material: Gioya Carter, Whitney Hand, Nicole Griffin, Morgan Hook, Vionnise Pierre-Louis, Kaylon Williams, Carly Rothlisberger, Amanda Thompson, etc.
Lots of factors, many of which we'll never know fully, play into this kind of dynamic. Maybe it's just an inevitability for some coaches....kinda like Jim Foster, or Andy Landers: Time earned in the spotlight wanes to mediocrity, eventually. Exit, stage left. |
I think the Landers comparison is very fair. Similar situation by all appearances. I wonder if all the success, but no strong pro players outside of prime D-Rob affected recruiting in the past 8-10 years.
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okstateguy
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| Posted: 03/18/21 10:11 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| okstateguy wrote: |
| In a league that began evolving during her prime, she initially got the recruits to compete. |
That's the odd part: she DID have considerable success, being at or near the top of the Big12, when it WAS stronger. That alone should have helped recruit elite talent, but it didn't translate to that. Yet, she DID do quite well with kids that weren't really Big Star material: Gioya Carter, Whitney Hand, Nicole Griffin, Morgan Hook, Vionnise Pierre-Louis, Kaylon Williams, Carly Rothlisberger, Amanda Thompson, etc.
Lots of factors, many of which we'll never know fully, play into this kind of dynamic. Maybe it's just an inevitability for some coaches....kinda like Jim Foster, or Andy Landers: Time earned in the spotlight wanes to mediocrity, eventually. Exit, stage left. |
I think the Landers comparison is very fair. Similar situation by all appearances. I wonder if all the success, but no strong pro players outside of prime D-Rob affected recruiting in the past 8-10 years.
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robertoclementeforever
Joined: 18 Dec 2020
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| Posted: 03/19/21 2:15 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| robertoclementeforever wrote: |
| I have also followed Sherri's career and quite frankly she owes her rise to prominence to Geno's mentorship. Sherri's coaching abilities are mediocre at best. Despite her Program's run, she was never an Elite Coach. |
 Clearly you never followed TOO closely. That she's already in The Hall of Fame would indicate that MANY others might disagree with that.
| robertoclementeforever wrote: |
| Oklahoma was never able to mount a competitive effort against the Huskies. |
This illustrates your level of observational skills, I'm afraid. You clearly missed the last meeting, when Sherri's Freshman Ragtags led UConn by 10 at the end of 3 quarters. They didn't win, but she had 'em on the ropes.
| robertoclementeforever wrote: |
| Geno gave Sherri national exposure. He recommended Sherri to USA basketball as one of his assistants when other more deserving coaches were available. |
Yes, of COURSE....she was just a dumb blonde who Geno 'created' into a coach.  Spoken as a true UConn-centric mind. |
Well now, Howee the Canard. You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine. While it's true that I am new to this Board, I will not subscribe to nor tolerate hazing or shaming in any form or fashion. So take your pejorative "UConn-centric mind" comment and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. I am, have always been, and will forever be, a BUCKEYE. I have a soft spot for Vanderveer and Foster but I believe the Stats are incontrovertible that Geno is the GOAT in the Women's Game. Geography is not relevant to that fact.
I never stated that Sherri Coale was a dumb blond. That's your inference. If I believed it, I would have said so. My primary statement was simply that I didn't consider Sherri an Elite Coach and I qualified it by naming those Coaches I consider to be Elite and whom I believed would have won NC's with Sherri's talent. I don't care if she's in the HOF. So is Chris Dailey and she's never been a HC. The HOF has its own agenda and goals. Sherri went from a HS in Norman to OK. She never paid her dues in the traditional sense. I don't have a problem with that presuming some organic demonstration that would warrant such a leap of faith and consideration but this is, IMO, more an example of prophesy fulfilling. The Red Sea parted for her and Geno went out of his way to mentor her and she jumped all over it. I know of no other similar example in my 30+ years of following WCBB in addition to my personal knowledge of this matter. Ergo, the foundation for my assertion of the Peter Principle at work here. Incidentally, UConn is 13-0 against Oklahoma. The first win came 12/29/1999 with UConn winning +16 and the most recent on 12/22/2019 with a +44. The tight game at Norman you reference as some moral victory was a nine point loss and indicative of nothing except another loss that evolved into a greater loss the next time they played a year later.
Howee, I totally get your UConn animus. Your Duckies got creamed by UConn by 44 pts on 12/31/2012; by 46 pts on 11/20/2013 and by 38 pts on 3/27/2017. On 02/03/2020, just as you were able to turn the corner with a win over the worst UConn Team since 1992, the Pandemic wiped out your dream of a NC. Sabrina and Ruthie were never able to bring home the bacon. It's a tough break. Unfortunately for you, it won't be getting any easier for your Duckies. Fudd is coming to Storrs along with the Top recruiting class in the Universe. And guess what? Paige has another year of eligibility. As you know, my Buckeyes aren't eligible for the dance this year as per NCAA mandate but I like our chances in the B1G next year and will be satisfied with a Conference Championship and a wins over MD, Michigan and Iowa. In the meantime, I guess I will be rooting for the Team down the road from my country home in the Last Green Valley.
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Howee
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PlayBally'all
Joined: 17 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 03/19/21 4:06 pm ::: |
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| Sometimes, actually more times than not, coaches simply run out of gas at some point. It happens in every sport. Steve Spurrier, former Florida and South Carolina coach, compared it to a pastor going to a new church. When he/she begins the energy is at a high level. Those that are the best gain momentum and achieve a lot of their goals. However, at some point, the congregation, just like the supporters of a team, begin to get bored with what they have heard for so long. Coaches, likewise, fall into patterns and begin going thru the motions with less and less energy. Sometimes a move helps the coach and the program.
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