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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11225
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Posted: 08/02/12 11:28 am ::: Women's basketball: Guard play |
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From Australia to Croatia to China, it just doesn't seem that there are very many quality guards in the Olympics. Sure, some have looked good, but that's because, I think, they're playing against other ineffective guards.
Horakova, Mandir, Dumerc, Harrower, etc., all seem like they would struggle in the WNBA because of lack of quickness. They're smart and skilled, and would probably be fine offensively, but they lack athleticism and explosiveness even when compared to someone like Temeka Johnson, say, or Lindsay Harding, or pick your favorite.
It's not that the United States is blindingly quick on the perimeter either, but if that is the perceived weakness of Bird and Whalen, the other national teams are ill-equipped to exploit it.
Now, I'm not saying that Dumerc and Horakova, for example, couldn't play in the WNBA -- I'm sure they could, but they wouldn't be stars, and might not even be starters.
And I think the strong play of Angel McCoughtry is further proof, as she is simply a level above the perimeter players in London in terms of size, speed and explosiveness.
I'm surprised by this, really, as there's no obvious reason that there should be a shortage of perimeter players, and most likely it's just the cyclical nature of talent. But watching these Olympics, it's hard to locate a team that has the guard play -- three-point shooting, defense, ability to penetrate -- that's good enough to beat the U.S. The chances of any basketball upset at any level usually depend on the underdog having good guards, but I don't see that here.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010 Posts: 16467 Location: Holland
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Posted: 08/02/12 11:58 am ::: |
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I think Birsel Varderli (PG of Turkey, Fenerbahce) could play in the WNBA. She and Zoll have been solid in the Euroleague the past few seasons and she has been playing well in the Olympics. I wouldnt mind her backing up Bird for the Storm.
p.s Horakova, Harrower are done. Mandir is not good enough. And i think its too late for Dumerc to come over
_________________ "Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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D-hoops
Joined: 05 Jun 2006 Posts: 46
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Posted: 08/02/12 12:24 pm ::: |
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Michelle89 wrote: |
I think Birsel Varderli (PG of Turkey, Fenerbahce) could play in the WNBA. She and Zoll have been solid in the Euroleague the past few seasons and she has been playing well in the Olympics. I wouldnt mind her backing up Bird for the Storm.
p.s Horakova, Harrower are done. Mandir is not good enough. And i think its too late for Dumerc to come over |
Mandir is 34 years old and recently had a child, I believe that in her prime she could have been a solid WNBA contributor. Though American players are typically quicker and stronger, Mandir and other European counterparts seem to be much better shooters and have a higher and more tactical basketball IQ.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11225
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Posted: 08/02/12 1:08 pm ::: |
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Just to make it clear: I'm not saying that Varderli, etc., couldn't play in the WNBA. I just don't know if they are of the caliber that would improve the league.
Or, to put it another way, so far, it would be hard for me to agree with the claim there are several European guards who would elevate the league if they played in the WNBA. I think their experience and skills could make them solid backups, but they couldn't anchor an expansion team or turn a non-playoff team into a contender.
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Colerr
Joined: 16 Mar 2012 Posts: 569 Location: Missouri
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Posted: 08/02/12 1:44 pm ::: |
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I've been impressed with Miao of China, she's averaging 7.7 APG, and she had a double-double against Croatia with 17 points & 10 assists. Looking forward to seeing what she does against Turkey & USA.
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Joe Foss
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 4066
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Posted: 08/02/12 2:20 pm ::: |
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I've been impressed with the quickness of France's Emilie Gomis, who's averaging 14.7 ppg so far. 28 years old, 5'10", but rather light at 135 lbs. She's listed as a G/F. Looks like she could give the US guards trouble with her ability to penetrate. She had very brief experience with the Liberty in 2006, appearing in only 2 games totalling 15 minutes.
Speaking of guard play, did anyone anticipate the problems in shooting the 3-ball the US has had? Sue Bird is leading the way, but is only shooting 27%. Taurasi is at 20%. I didn't expect those numbers from this group.
On the other hand, Becky Hammon is shooting 10% from 3. So it could be worse.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11225
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Posted: 08/02/12 2:52 pm ::: |
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Gomis and Miao both played in the league, with less than spectacular results.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63947
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Posted: 08/02/12 3:03 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
Gomis and Miao both played in the league, with less than spectacular results. |
Who else could you say that about but is highly touted now?
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11225
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Posted: 08/02/12 3:31 pm ::: |
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Becky Hammon, obviously, but the vast majority of players who don't show well in their first go-round do so because they're not good enough to contribute regularly.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010 Posts: 16467 Location: Holland
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Posted: 08/02/12 4:40 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
Just to make it clear: I'm not saying that Varderli, etc., couldn't play in the WNBA. I just don't know if they are of the caliber that would improve the league.
Or, to put it another way, so far, it would be hard for me to agree with the claim there are several European guards who would elevate the league if they played in the WNBA. I think their experience and skills could make them solid backups, but they couldn't anchor an expansion team or turn a non-playoff team into a contender. |
I agree there is not a lot of starting material out there right now. Though i believe if Anete Jekabsone Zogota and Torrens would be healthy they both could be starting for the Sun IMO. They are better then Green, McCray etc.
And i really think Torrens with a couple of WNBA seasons under her belt could be a solid starter with maybe even allstar potential. But with her ACL injury you never know how she will recover
_________________ "Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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RP
Joined: 17 Jul 2010 Posts: 1299
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Posted: 08/02/12 7:34 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
Becky Hammon, obviously, but the vast majority of players who don't show well in their first go-round do so because they're not good enough to contribute regularly. |
Few to the extent of Hammon -- whose increase from 2.7 points per game as a rookie to a peak of 19.5 may very well be the highest in league history -- but there are plenty of players who had a shaky transition and later became more than serviceable. But I'm fairly certain Shades isn't speaking of Hammon or anyone else who's never been out of the league and is actually agreeing with you.
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bullsky
Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 20310
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Posted: 08/02/12 9:08 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
Gomis and Miao both played in the league, with less than spectacular results. |
In Gomis's defense, she's a completely different player now. Miao is the exact same player.
_________________ "Don't do something until you get it right, do it until you can't do it wrong."
- Geno Auriemma
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63947
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Posted: 08/02/12 9:18 pm ::: |
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RP wrote: |
But I'm fairly certain Shades isn't speaking of Hammon or anyone else who's never been out of the league and is actually agreeing with you. |
I wasn't speaking of Hammon but I had someone in mind.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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SDHoops
Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 1183
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Posted: 08/03/12 2:14 am ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
RP wrote: |
But I'm fairly certain Shades isn't speaking of Hammon or anyone else who's never been out of the league and is actually agreeing with you. |
I wasn't speaking of Hammon but I had someone in mind. |
De Souza? Not a guard but she didn't have a good go around her first time in the league but came back to be a key part in making Atlanta a contender the past few years.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67139 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 08/03/12 6:55 am ::: |
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I have not seen a guard in these Games who isn't already in the league that would be an upgrade over Ivory Latta, to pick a middling WNBA guard.
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010 Posts: 16467 Location: Holland
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Posted: 08/03/12 6:58 am ::: |
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I think i would take Danilochkina over Leilani Mitchell though
_________________ "Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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p_d_swanson
Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 9713
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Posted: 08/03/12 7:40 am ::: |
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Based on her current form, Korstin seems primed for a return to the desert...
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jaye
Joined: 12 Sep 2007 Posts: 6723 Location: Georgia
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Posted: 08/03/12 8:59 am ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
I have not seen a guard in these Games who isn't already in the league that would be an upgrade over Ivory Latta, to pick a middling WNBA guard. |
nonsense....
_________________ sammy can ball....
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010 Posts: 16467 Location: Holland
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24409 Location: London
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Posted: 08/03/12 9:57 am ::: |
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Michelle89 wrote: |
p_d_swanson wrote: |
Based on her current form, Korstin seems primed for a return to the desert... |
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And here I was thinking a downgrade from Andrea Riley was virtually impossible... |
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JohnyK
Joined: 28 Jul 2009 Posts: 3411 Location: EU
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Posted: 08/03/12 11:15 am ::: |
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Cute thread, but, honestly, most of the top international (talking mainly about Europeans) players don't give a fuck about WNBA, they'd rather play for their NT and rest for a month or two or take the summer off altogether. |
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p_d_swanson
Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 9713
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Posted: 08/03/12 11:22 am ::: |
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JohnyK wrote: |
Cute thread, but, honestly, most of the top international (talking mainly about Europeans) players don't give a fuck about WNBA, they'd rather play for their NT and rest for a month or two or take the summer off altogether. |
So it's win-win!
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JohnyK
Joined: 28 Jul 2009 Posts: 3411 Location: EU
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Posted: 08/03/12 11:30 am ::: |
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p_d_swanson wrote: |
JohnyK wrote: |
Cute thread, but, honestly, most of the top international (talking mainly about Europeans) players don't give a fuck about WNBA, they'd rather play for their NT and rest for a month or two or take the summer off altogether. |
So it's win-win! |
Yup! |
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vanyogan
Joined: 09 Aug 2005 Posts: 9673
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Posted: 08/03/12 1:10 pm ::: |
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SDHoops wrote: |
Shades wrote: |
RP wrote: |
But I'm fairly certain Shades isn't speaking of Hammon or anyone else who's never been out of the league and is actually agreeing with you. |
I wasn't speaking of Hammon but I had someone in mind. |
De Souza? Not a guard but she didn't have a good go around her first time in the league but came back to be a key part in making Atlanta a contender the past few years. |
DeSouza [drafted by] [Sparks], she [played] well for the Sun. Most big posts don't start as a rookie, not even the good ones, I think she was taken in the expansion draft by Atlanta.
Well, I messed that up, the first time she got big playing time was with Atlanta I guess, but she was effective off the bench for the Sun. |
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jap
Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 7957
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Posted: 08/03/12 2:08 pm ::: |
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SDHoops wrote: |
Shades wrote: |
RP wrote: |
But I'm fairly certain Shades isn't speaking of Hammon or anyone else who's never been out of the league and is actually agreeing with you. |
I wasn't speaking of Hammon but I had someone in mind. |
De Souza? Not a guard but she didn't have a good go around her first time in the league but came back to be a key part in making Atlanta a contender the past few years. |
De Souza was backing up Lisa Leslie: she couldn't get on the floor.
_________________ Regards,
J A P
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