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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12528
Location: Dallas , Texas
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 Posted: 10/05/21 4:10 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| There's not a whole lot the team can really do to Williams now. She's a free agent. |
If anything they let Carter walk and hope they can get their all star back give her some maturity classes. Courtney the Baller versus Courtney the Celebrity. Its Lori Anne 2.0 All over again , next she will be sitting in the stands watching the dream play. Well i actually see that being Chennedy before Courtney W tbh.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18029
Location: Queens
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| Posted: 10/05/21 4:16 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
Okay.....I don't follow the wnba too closely until playoff time, so I've missed some of the Dream's Drama. Never been a Dream fan anyway, but yeah, ANY team's negative drama is harmful to the league.
The above article re: Carter/Williams certainly does not reflect well on Courtney, especially given the past history with the Sun, and now the public altercation.
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| Following the game, Carter approached Williams about playing time and suggested she wanted to fight her teammate, sources told Nusbaum. Williams, who reportedly got into an altercation in 2018 with then-Sun teammate Alex Bentley, made it clear she didn’t want to fight and removed herself from the situation. |
Even Plenette Pierson kept her *nastiness* on the court.  |
But on the other hand, the general consensus from Connecticut is that Bentley started that altercation, which would make sense since the Sun sent Bentley off to Atlanta (also, anecdotally, Bentley's family used to show up and make a spectacle of themselves at Liberty games, so I am inclined to believe the apple didn't fall far from the tree). The JWS article indicates Carter started that confrontation and Williams tried not to fight her. The most recent thing to surface is reportedly a case of self-defense. The question *I'm* asking myself is whether Williams is an instigator with a phenomenal ability to deflect blame, or if she accidentally pissed off a witch and got saddled with a jackassery magnet.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24349
Location: London
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| Posted: 10/05/21 4:22 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| There's not a whole lot the team can really do to Williams now. She's a free agent. |
A free agent they might well core. Unless teams are really scared off by the drama that frequently seems to surround her, there'll be plenty of teams willing to pay her the max. |
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 5376
Location: Chocolate Paradise
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| Posted: 10/05/21 6:17 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| There's not a whole lot the team can really do to Williams now. She's a free agent. |
There is one thing they can do. Do not resign her. Say goodbye.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 10/05/21 6:23 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| There's not a whole lot the team can really do to Williams now. She's a free agent. |
A free agent they might well core. |
Yep. I think J-Spoon has suggested the same. Core her & try to trade her for whatever you can get. Even if it’s unsuccessful, the core will expire and she’d be free to sign herself out of town anyway. Just don’t re-sign her. Perceived baggage aside, building a whole team around an undersized SG (who’s a star but imo is not & will never be a superstar) just doesn’t seem feasible. Plus, you know she won’t accept anything less than max after she was willing to leave a title contender for a less-than-mediocre team just because that team was willing to pay her more.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6796
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| Posted: 10/05/21 6:38 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| There's not a whole lot the team can really do to Williams now. She's a free agent. |
A free agent they might well core. |
Yep. I think J-Spoon has suggested the same. Core her & try to trade her for whatever you can get. Even if it’s unsuccessful, the core will expire and she’d be free to sign herself out of town anyway. Just don’t re-sign her. Perceived baggage aside, building a whole team around an undersized SG (who’s a star but imo is not & will never be a superstar) just doesn’t seem feasible. Plus, you know she won’t accept anything less than max after she was willing to leave a title contender for a less-than-mediocre team just because that team was willing to pay her more. |
I could be wrong but this situation makes coring her a little trickier.
I believe to core a player you have to offer them a one year max contract. Once you do that it is only the player who can decide not to sign it. Meaning that if Atlanta cored Williams and could not trade her they would have to pay her the one year max and have her on the roster unless she refused to sign. It is probably worth the risk as someone should still be willing to trade for her but if they didn't Atlanta would have no choice but to keep her.
This is actually why I asked is their a possibility that Atl could let Williams walk and trade Carter? I doubt they would want to give up that much talent but it is one way out from under this image problem and in theory they could still get a top pick in this lottery and would have tons of cap space to over pay some free agents with.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 10/05/21 6:53 pm ::: |
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OK I just thought of the perfect PR move
New Atlanta Dream coach MAYA MOORE
I am only half joking
I was thinking one way to change the image would have the next coach be a beloved/respected X-player my original thoughts were T-Spoon, Leslie, Cooper, McWilliams-Franklin but who could bring about a more positive narrative than Maya Moore. (Might not have the best results on the floor but one step at a time).
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 10/05/21 7:05 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
OK I just thought of the perfect PR move
New Atlanta Dream coach MAYA MOORE
I am only half joking
I was thinking one way to change the image would have the next coach be a beloved/respected X-player my original thoughts were T-Spoon, Leslie, Cooper, McWilliams-Franklin but who could bring about a more positive narrative than Maya Moore. (Might not have the best results on the floor but one step at a time). |
I'm sure there is much, if any, love for most of those player in Atlanta in 2021. Hiring Moore would be a bit like the Sparks hiring Fisher - getting someone with great accomplishments as a player, but lacking in WNBA coaching experience. We've seen how that has turned out.
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StevenHW
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 10983
Location: Sacramento, California
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| Posted: 10/05/21 7:20 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
OK I just thought of the perfect PR move
New Atlanta Dream coach MAYA MOORE
I am only half joking
I was thinking one way to change the image would have the next coach be a beloved/respected X-player my original thoughts were T-Spoon, Leslie, Cooper, McWilliams-Franklin but who could bring about a more positive narrative than Maya Moore. (Might not have the best results on the floor but one step at a time). |
Or Teresa Edwards? She's from Georgia, and at least she has some coaching experience.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 10/05/21 7:31 pm ::: |
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Yeah I realize hiring a coach with no experience isn’t the best for wins
I am purely thinking about changing the narrative
I like the Teresa Edwards idea as well
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 785
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| Posted: 10/05/21 8:29 pm ::: |
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| According to a Megdal tweet neither Williams or Bradford will be re signed.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 10/05/21 8:55 pm ::: |
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| StevenHW wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
OK I just thought of the perfect PR move
New Atlanta Dream coach MAYA MOORE
I am only half joking
I was thinking one way to change the image would have the next coach be a beloved/respected X-player my original thoughts were T-Spoon, Leslie, Cooper, McWilliams-Franklin but who could bring about a more positive narrative than Maya Moore. (Might not have the best results on the floor but one step at a time). |
Or Teresa Edwards? She's from Georgia, and at least she has some coaching experience. |
She already washed out as a Dream assistant (and elsewhere IIRC.)
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BamaEd
Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 855
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10/05/21 9:09 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| StevenHW wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
OK I just thought of the perfect PR move
New Atlanta Dream coach MAYA MOORE
I am only half joking
I was thinking one way to change the image would have the next coach be a beloved/respected X-player my original thoughts were T-Spoon, Leslie, Cooper, McWilliams-Franklin but who could bring about a more positive narrative than Maya Moore. (Might not have the best results on the floor but one step at a time). |
Or Teresa Edwards? She's from Georgia, and at least she has some coaching experience. |
She already washed out as a Dream assistant (and elsewhere IIRC.) |
Maybe keep it in the family and get Joni Taylor to be the coach and work with her husband? Joni was one of my favorite players at Alabama and she's done great at UGA. Maybe the grind of recruiting is too much for her.
Or get Andy Landers in to coach for a year or two?
Just thinking out loud.
If the tweet about CWill and Bradford is true, that doesn't necessarily mean Carter is in the clear, but it does clear a path for a return. I wonder if they will try to re-sign Hayes or if she would want to chase a ring. So much to wonder.
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dreamfan11
Joined: 11 Oct 2017
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| Posted: 10/05/21 9:48 pm ::: |
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| I really have nothing to say. It is a sad state. But yes, I do still believe the new "ownership" made a lot of missteps. Canning the GM, then letting the coach walk (more to the story than meets the eye) who had an amazing CC relationship, and all the dominos that fell because of these decisions have made them a joke. The season was promising but because of all the changes - even in the system and style of play (Coach Mike was different than Coach Darius who were both different than Coach Nicki), the season was lost. If the rumors are true and both CW and CB are not welcomed back, that does not guarantee CC a position - she may not want to be back. For her to hold out is nothing since they denied her a half-season of salary already so I am sure the Dream are not on the top of her list. Her agent could demand a trade and there will be interest because of her talent. Will she become like Holdsclaw? Or, can she turn it around? Who is the GM? Who is the coach? Will the "ownership" still call the moves/trades/draft or let actual basketball people make decisions?
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dreamfan11
Joined: 11 Oct 2017
Posts: 80
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| Posted: 10/05/21 9:48 pm ::: |
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| I really have nothing to say. It is a sad state. But yes, I do still believe the new "ownership" made a lot of missteps. Canning the GM, then letting the coach walk (more to the story than meets the eye) who had an amazing CC relationship, and all the dominos that fell because of these decisions have made them a joke. The season was promising but because of all the changes - even in the system and style of play (Coach Mike was different than Coach Darius who were both different than Coach Nicki), the season was lost. If the rumors are true and both CW and CB are not welcomed back, that does not guarantee CC a position - she may not want to be back. For her to hold out is nothing since they denied her a half-season of salary already so I am sure the Dream are not on the top of her list. Her agent could demand a trade and there will be interest because of her talent. Will she become like Holdsclaw? Or, can she turn it around? Who is the GM? Who is the coach? Will the "ownership" still call the moves/trades/draft or let actual basketball people make decisions?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66900
Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 10/05/21 9:51 pm ::: |
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| Interestingly, Chennedy Carter has the same agent as Courtney Williams. So does Tip Hayes.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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Location: Chocolate Paradise
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| Posted: 10/05/21 10:17 pm ::: |
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| This off season for the Dream will be very interesting.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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Location: London
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| Posted: 10/06/21 3:52 am ::: |
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| bballjunkie wrote: |
| According to a Megdal tweet neither Williams or Bradford will be re signed. |
Another sign of a team without a GM (or a coherent idea of what the hell they're doing)? Seems counter-productive to building a decent team to simply release your best player and the only success story you had in 2021 for nothing. |
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 16464
Location: Holland
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| Posted: 10/06/21 4:59 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| bballjunkie wrote: |
| According to a Megdal tweet neither Williams or Bradford will be re signed. |
Another sign of a team without a GM (or a coherent idea of what the hell they're doing)? Seems counter-productive to building a decent team to simply release your best player and the only success story you had in 2021 for nothing. |
Or they want to make a fresh start and send a message..
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24349
Location: London
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| Posted: 10/06/21 5:10 am ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
| bballjunkie wrote: |
| According to a Megdal tweet neither Williams or Bradford will be re signed. |
Another sign of a team without a GM (or a coherent idea of what the hell they're doing)? Seems counter-productive to building a decent team to simply release your best player and the only success story you had in 2021 for nothing. |
Or they want to make a fresh start and send a message.. |
That's fine. Use your assets and improve the team. Hell, here's a crazy idea - hire a GM to actually do these things and run the place. Good luck improving the team from a fresh start given the shambles they've been and when your only meaningful asset is the player you suspended for over half the season... |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 10/06/21 9:39 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Interestingly, Chennedy Carter has the same agent as Courtney Williams. So does Tip Hayes. |
Apparently Carter switched agents at some point this year. so she's not with the same one as the others.
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dreamfan11
Joined: 11 Oct 2017
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| Posted: 10/06/21 10:25 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
| bballjunkie wrote: |
| According to a Megdal tweet neither Williams or Bradford will be re signed. |
Another sign of a team without a GM (or a coherent idea of what the hell they're doing)? Seems counter-productive to building a decent team to simply release your best player and the only success story you had in 2021 for nothing. |
Or they want to make a fresh start and send a message.. |
That's fine. Use your assets and improve the team. Hell, here's a crazy idea - hire a GM to actually do these things and run the place. Good luck improving the team from a fresh start given the shambles they've been and when your only meaningful asset is the player you suspended for over half the season... |
Make a fresh start? IF they kept the old GM, there would be continuity. IF they held onto the coach, CC would be on the roster and likely in the playoffs. IF they knew how to run the team, they would not have told the staff who to draft. IF they want a successful team, they would let the new coach and GM figure out staffing - who to keep, trade, or other. Telling two players they are not coming back is pure out STUPID. There is no trade value for them whatsoever. You could have cored CW and CB was reserved - both could have been used to make the team better via trade - even for draft picks. DUH. What a group led by pretend owner Renee and pretend President/owner Suzy, and true 100% owner Larry who knows nothing about managing basketball - just a very wealthy fan.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 10/06/21 11:36 am ::: |
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| dreamfan11 wrote: |
| Make a fresh start? IF they kept the old GM, there would be continuity. IF they held onto the coach, CC would be on the roster and likely in the playoffs. IF they knew how to run the team, they would not have told the staff who to draft. IF they want a successful team, they would let the new coach and GM figure out staffing - who to keep, trade, or other. Telling two players they are not coming back is pure out STUPID... |
That is a rather bold statement, considering that Nikki Collen never coached the Dream to within 4 games of a winning record, without McCoughtry. I mean, even the Liberty had to win twelve games, to make the playoffs.
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myrtle
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 10/06/21 5:41 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
Carter
McDonald
Hayes maybe (core her?)
Hawkins
Billings
Parker
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If Carter wasn’t getting paid all that time she was suspended, I wouldn’t want to come back. But if they were paying her, I suppose things could work out since CWill seemed to be a part of the problem.
It loosens up logjams and makes decisions a little easier.
Carter/McDonald
Hayes/Sims?
(#1 pick Howard)
Billings/(#2 pick Smith, #3 pick Hillmon, or #4 pick Austin)
Parker/(Take Cunane instead?)
Plus there should be a handful of decent vets that want to get paid more than the minimum other teams would be offering.
The return of McCoughtry?
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