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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 08/18/21 5:41 pm    ::: Afghanistan Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
We've been at war there the entire time this board has existed. Today is the first time you've ever mentioned Afghanistan.


Maybe we should have because the US and Afghanistan are both in deep shit now. Our withdrawal of troops has precipitated a huge security, humanitarian, and diplomacy crisis.

Yesterday it was revealed that Biden hadn't called any of our European allies about this fiasco, and of course Europe is in a turmoil since they're going to bear the brunt of the refugee influx. He finally called Johnson yesterday and Merkel today. But he continues to say about this withdrawal, "I still don't think it was a failure." He has agreed to extend his deadline for removing troops to allow them to evacuate American citizens but that doesn't include our Afghan allies.

Anyone who believes the Taliban's statements about treating women more humanely is naive in the extreme. They're currently shooting protesters.

In the meantime, over a hundred terrorist groups have reportedly entered Afghanistan, primarily with Al-Qaeda affiliations. Think about that, and think about the US population, which is currently very fragile, trying to deal with a terrorist attack in the coming months. A bunch of terrorists could probably hijack a plane and no one would notice because the passengers were already fighting with the flight attendants.


pilight



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PostPosted: 08/18/21 7:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ultimately the Afghani "leadership" is to blame for the Taliban's quick retaking of the country. The US left them with a significant advantage in manpower and equipment, twenty years of training, and control of all the major cities. Maintaining a hold over the country shouldn't have been that difficult.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 08/18/21 8:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
A bunch of terrorists could probably hijack a plane and no one would notice because the passengers were already fighting with the flight attendants.

I'd rate that as a wee bit hyperbolic. (....for instance, where are they gonna get their Covid vaccine IDs? Razz) But really, I don't think that's the most immediate danger; I'm still more concerned about our local domestic terrorists.

pilight wrote:
Ultimately the Afghani "leadership" is to blame for the Taliban's quick retaking of the country. The US left them with a significant advantage in manpower and equipment, twenty years of training, and control of all the major cities. Maintaining a hold over the country shouldn't have been that difficult.


All true. But I'd also like an explanation as to why THEIR NEXT-DOOR 'NEIGHBORS' (e.g., Iran and Pakistan)haven't been more helpful with interventions over the years; they may all be majority Muslim countries, but there is justifiable cause for concern in both those countries over Afghanistan's success or failure.

Yes, Afghanistan's future humanitarian and human rights problems are most disturbing to us who are fed this news stream. But from a contextual viewpoint, are they any more dire or tragic than what's happening (now!) in Ethiopia, Yemen, China (Uyghurs), Burma, etc., etc.?



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 08/19/21 12:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pakistan has been very helpful in Afghanistan...helpful to the Taliban, that is. Their goal has been to prevent an Afghani alliance with India and to ally with the Taliban against ISIS. The Taliban have promised Iran not to allow anti-Iranian Saudi bases in Afghanistan. So Pakistan and Iran have been busy getting just what they wanted, and it wasn't democracy for their neighbor.
https://time.com/6091251/afghanistan-taliban-takeover-pakistan/

And yes, other parts of the world are in trouble too, but to my knowledge the US hasn't precipitated any of those situations.


Howee



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PostPosted: 08/19/21 12:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:

And yes, other parts of the world are in trouble too, but to my knowledge the US hasn't precipitated any of those situations.


I'm not so sure it's fair to say America has "precipitated" the current situation; Afghanistan has long been called the "Graveyard of Empires". We're clearly the last to be left holding the bag here, but I see it as we were merely the last to try....and fail, like all the others. We had no role in ushering radical Islam into that place, and it's radical Islam that is Afghanistan's biggest problem.



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Stonington_QB



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PostPosted: 08/19/21 11:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We did NOT leave the Afghani military with a significant advantage. In fact, we did everything possible to ensure their failure. We left them without offering one iota of assistance. The Afghani military collapsed because the United States removed all logistical support.

The government asked Biden if they could wait until winter to pull out because the Taliban does not fight in the winter. The answer was, "No, we're leaving now." Then, they asked, "OK, well can you at least support us in maintaining our planes and helicopters?" Biden's response? No. Instead, we had a Zoom meeting to help resolve maintenance issues with the equipment. In addition to that, we also removed all support from contractors in maintaining their fleet.

This administration DELIBERATELY screwed the Afghani people. Why? Well, I suspect China has influence over Joe Biden because they most likely have some very damaging dirt on him. Why would China want to be in Afghanistan? Simple: Afghanistan has the world's largest supply of lithium. Afghanistan is also a part of their road and bridge initiative. There are many other reasons, including strengthening their ability to invade India.

We didn't just betray Afghanistan. We betrayed ALL of our allies in the region. We also left at least 5,000 Americans behind. Some reports say that number is closer to 15,000. In comparison, we lost 3,000 people on 9/11. We also lost a similar number during the Iraq war, in which our news media gleefully reported the casualties on an hourly basis.

Also important to note that this insurrection was headed by a man who was detained in Guantanamo Bay, but was released by then President Obama. For whatever reason, we have multiple pages about January 6th on this board, but no one wants to talk about a real insurrection, with real consequences for our nation. We have not even begun to measure how bad this will be for us. But we will find out.




Last edited by Stonington_QB on 08/19/21 11:53 am; edited 2 times in total
FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 08/19/21 3:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
We did NOT leave the Afghani military with a significant advantage. In fact, we did everything possible to ensure their failure. We left them without offering one iota of assistance. The Afghani military collapsed because the United States removed all logistical support.

The government asked Biden if they could wait until winter to pull out because the Taliban does not fight in the winter. The answer was, "No, we're leaving now." Then, they asked, "OK, well can you at least support us in maintaining our planes and helicopters?" Biden's response? No. Instead, we had a Zoom meeting to help resolve maintenance issues with the equipment. In addition to that, we also removed all support from contractors in maintaining their fleet.

This administration DELIBERATELY screwed the Afghani people. Why? Well, I suspect China has influence over Joe Biden because they most likely have some very damaging dirt on him. Why would China want to be in Afghanistan? Simple: Afghanistan has the world's largest supply of lithium. Afghanistan is also a part of their road and bridge initiative. There are many other reasons, including strengthening their ability to invade India.

We didn't just betray Afghanistan. We betrayed ALL of our allies in the region. We also left at least 5,000 Americans behind. Some reports say that number is closer to 15,000. In comparison, we lost 3,000 people on 9/11. We also lost a similar number during the Iraq war, in which our news media gleefully reported the casualties on an hourly basis.

Also important to note that this insurrection was headed by a man who was detained in Guantanamo Bay, but was released by then President Obama. For whatever reason, we have multiple pages about January 6th on this board, but no one wants to talk about a real insurrection, with real consequences for our nation. We have not even begun to measure how bad this will be for us. But we will find out.


Biden is digging himself a big hole. Milley and Austin told the WSJ they had both warned Biden this fiasco would happen, and in that pitiful interview with Stephanopoulos, Biden says he doesn't "recall" it. Then he went on to deny that the intelligence community had predicted this outcome. Neither the CIA or DNI have gone on record yet regarding their specific reports, but both indicated to the NYT that their assessments had been "sober." A lot of our Afghan allies are going to die because they can't get out, and our NATO allies are angry.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-wanted-to-leave-afghanistan-he-knew-the-risks-11629214842?mod=itp_wsj&ru=yahoo&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/full-transcript-abc-news-george-stephanopoulos-interview-president/story?id=79535643
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/17/us/politics/afghanistan-biden-administration.html
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pentagon-british-paratroopers-afghanistan-kabul-airport
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/19/politics/biden-senators-siv-letter/index.html
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-allies-trust-us-waning-confidence




Last edited by FrozenLVFan on 08/19/21 3:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
Howee



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PostPosted: 08/19/21 3:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
We did NOT leave the Afghani military with a significant advantage. In fact, we did everything possible to ensure their failure. We left them without offering one iota of assistance. The Afghani military collapsed because the United States removed all logistical support.

The government asked Biden if they could wait until winter to pull out because the Taliban does not fight in the winter. The answer was, "No, we're leaving now." Then, they asked, "OK, well can you at least support us in maintaining our planes and helicopters?" Biden's response? No. Instead, we had a Zoom meeting to help resolve maintenance issues with the equipment. In addition to that, we also removed all support from contractors in maintaining their fleet.

This administration DELIBERATELY screwed the Afghani people. Why? Well, I suspect China has influence over Joe Biden because they most likely have some very damaging dirt on him. Why would China want to be in Afghanistan? Simple: Afghanistan has the world's largest supply of lithium. Afghanistan is also a part of their road and bridge initiative. There are many other reasons, including strengthening their ability to invade India.

We didn't just betray Afghanistan. We betrayed ALL of our allies in the region. We also left at least 5,000 Americans behind. Some reports say that number is closer to 15,000. In comparison, we lost 3,000 people on 9/11. We also lost a similar number during the Iraq war, in which our news media gleefully reported the casualties on an hourly basis.

Also important to note that this insurrection was headed by a man who was detained in Guantanamo Bay, but was released by then President Obama. For whatever reason, we have multiple pages about January 6th on this board, but no one wants to talk about a real insurrection, with real consequences for our nation. We have not even begun to measure how bad this will be for us. But we will find out.


Until you show your sources that corroborate these allegations, it's all just opinionated bullshit. [Alex Jones, MTG, Matt Gaetz, and QAnon don't count as legitimate sources Razz]

And never forget: *your* Pretty Boy, who ran on doing this same thing, but never mustered the balls to do it.

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Biden is digging himself a big hole.

The Debate will rage on. Until it doesn't.
Quote:
Biden does have his defenders, however. In the eyes of some experts, any version of a U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan — whether it happened next month or next decade — would have ultimately led to the Taliban sweeping back into power. They argue that the U.S. had 20 years of evidence that nation-building efforts were a clear failure and that no amount of time, money or military assistance could overcome the fundamental issues — on both the U.S. and Afghan sides — that made the Afghan government unable to stand on its own.



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Last edited by Howee on 08/19/21 8:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 08/19/21 4:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
We did NOT leave the Afghani military with a significant advantage. In fact, we did everything possible to ensure their failure. We left them without offering one iota of assistance. The Afghani military collapsed because the United States removed all logistical support.

The government asked Biden if they could wait until winter to pull out because the Taliban does not fight in the winter. The answer was, "No, we're leaving now." Then, they asked, "OK, well can you at least support us in maintaining our planes and helicopters?" Biden's response? No. Instead, we had a Zoom meeting to help resolve maintenance issues with the equipment. In addition to that, we also removed all support from contractors in maintaining their fleet.

This administration DELIBERATELY screwed the Afghani people. Why? Well, I suspect China has influence over Joe Biden because they most likely have some very damaging dirt on him. Why would China want to be in Afghanistan? Simple: Afghanistan has the world's largest supply of lithium. Afghanistan is also a part of their road and bridge initiative. There are many other reasons, including strengthening their ability to invade India.

We didn't just betray Afghanistan. We betrayed ALL of our allies in the region. We also left at least 5,000 Americans behind. Some reports say that number is closer to 15,000. In comparison, we lost 3,000 people on 9/11. We also lost a similar number during the Iraq war, in which our news media gleefully reported the casualties on an hourly basis.

Also important to note that this insurrection was headed by a man who was detained in Guantanamo Bay, but was released by then President Obama. For whatever reason, we have multiple pages about January 6th on this board, but no one wants to talk about a real insurrection, with real consequences for our nation. We have not even begun to measure how bad this will be for us. But we will find out.


Until you show your sources that corroborate these allegations, it's all just opinionated bullshit. [Alex Jones, MTG, Matt Gaetz, and QAnon don't count]

And never forget: *your* Pretty Boy, who ran on doing this same thing, but never mustered the balls to do it.

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Biden is digging himself a big hole.

The Debate will rage on. Until it doesn't.
Quote:
Biden does have his defenders, however. In the eyes of some experts, any version of a U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan — whether it happened next month or next decade — would have ultimately led to the Taliban sweeping back into power. They argue that the U.S. had 20 years of evidence that nation-building efforts were a clear failure and that no amount of time, money or military assistance could overcome the fundamental issues — on both the U.S. and Afghan sides — that made the Afghan government unable to stand on its own.


I think there are two issues...one is the decision to withdraw our troops or not, and the other is logistical. The first is debatable. We had 2500 troops there and no deaths for well over a year, and the status quo was one hell of a lot better than where we are now or where the country will be in 3 months or 3 years. We clearly failed on the latter. We had inadequate provisions for getting American citizens to the airport, and inadequate identification and processing of the Afghanis who need to be evacuated as well. The time line was not realistic. We've lost planes, arms, drones, and other supplies. Logistical failure.


pilight



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PostPosted: 08/20/21 5:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The sad fact is you will not find one instance in the history of mankind where an occupying army completely withdraws from a war it has effectively lost, and there is no chaos. There is always chaos, and there are always huge numbers of people left behind who fought/aided that same army. It is unavoidable, and is not the fault of the military leadership. The media is full of Monday morning QB's from right to left, but none of them have a reasonable alternative plan for what's happening there.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 08/20/21 6:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
The sad fact is you will not find one instance in the history of mankind where an occupying army completely withdraws from a war it has effectively lost, and there is no chaos. There is always chaos, and there are always huge numbers of people left behind who fought/aided that same army. It is unavoidable, and is not the fault of the military leadership. The media is full of Monday morning QB's from right to left, but none of them have a reasonable alternative plan for what's happening there.


You're right, this was NOT the fault of our military leadership. Unless our military and embassy staff are all liars, they warned the White House that this was going to happen and that we needed to start our evacuation of US and Afghani allies months ago. The UK tried to talk us out of this plan. Biden is clueless. Today he said he had no idea that our citizens couldn't get to the airport. Europe is now rethinking a NATO in which the decision of one moron can cause a catastrophe.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/20/opinions/afghanistan-united-states-global-consequences-andelman/index.html


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PostPosted: 08/20/21 11:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I found this piece reveals one of the deepest, darkest things I've heard yet about how this situation could never begin to *heal* Afghanistan. It's about 8 minutes of enlightenment that I believe ALL Americans should have in their knowledge base as they try to judge the current state of affairs.

It offers no easy solutions to the current problem, but it certainly does shed light on one of the most relevant reasons the situation could never really end well: Corruption in the Afghani government, aided and abetted by Americans.

Quote:
In simple terms, why would a population take risks to fight the Taliban on behalf of a government that is treating them almost as badly as the Taliban do?

So, Afghan government officials would shake people down at every interaction. The massive international funding that was arriving in the country was being siphoned off or captured by government officials and their cronies.

And from Afghans' perspective, it almost looked like the United States was in favor of this system, because our officials were always seen partnering with these venal Afghan leaders. And no matter how much the population complained, they really couldn't get us to address the serious — the issues seriously.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 08/21/21 8:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Govt officials in a third world country helped themselves to international funds? Shocking. And I told you about Pakistan's support of the Taliban earlier.

I guess I shouldn't find it shocking that Biden continues to lie to the American public, claiming al-Qaeda is gone from Afghanistan when a UN report only 2 months ago said differently. https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/20/politics/fact-check-al-qaeda-gone-afghanistan-biden/index.html

How many Afghani women would choose living under the Taliban to living under corrupt govt officials?


Howee



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PostPosted: 08/21/21 11:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Govt officials in a third world country helped themselves to international funds? Shocking. And I told you about Pakistan's support of the Taliban earlier.

Reasons for (and the history of) Pakistan's involvement were more clearly explained in that piece than I'd ever heard before. Now, the corruption? Yes, we all know it goes on around the globe. But I'd say this is a special kind of Evil, considering it has been going on unchecked ever since Bush propped up Karzi, on through to Ghani, who flew off with millions. AND....it's continued on cuz we're too busy to be bothered. But if it's all a big ol' Open Secret, I certainly don't recall ever seeing it highlighted by any journalistic efforts. And, according to the video, local Afghanis DID try to expose this evil, to no avail. To me, this backdrop would create a whole new depth of grief to anyone who lost a loved one over there.

FrozenLVFan wrote:
I guess I shouldn't find it shocking that Biden continues to lie to the American public [/b], claiming al-Qaeda is gone from Afghanistan when a UN report only 2 months ago said differently. https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/20/politics/fact-check-al-qaeda-gone-afghanistan-biden/index.html

No, you shouldn't: it's American Politics, after all. Razz This 'numbness' to dishonesty is a by-product of decades of lies, despite fact-checkers and other exposures.

FrozenLVFan wrote:
How many Afghani women would choose living under the Taliban to living under corrupt govt officials?

Welcome to Hell. You get to pick: Door #1, or Door #2. Twisted Evil



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 08/21/21 1:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Govt officials in a third world country helped themselves to international funds? Shocking. And I told you about Pakistan's support of the Taliban earlier.

Reasons for (and the history of) Pakistan's involvement were more clearly explained in that piece than I'd ever heard before. Now, the corruption? Yes, we all know it goes on around the globe. But I'd say this is a special kind of Evil, considering it has been going on unchecked ever since Bush propped up Karzi, on through to Ghani, who flew off with millions. AND....it's continued on cuz we're too busy to be bothered. But if it's all a big ol' Open Secret, I certainly don't recall ever seeing it highlighted by any journalistic efforts. And, according to the video, local Afghanis DID try to expose this evil, to no avail. To me, this backdrop would create a whole new depth of grief to anyone who lost a loved one over there.


Open Secret?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Afghanistan

Howee wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
How many Afghani women would choose living under the Taliban to living under corrupt govt officials?

Welcome to Hell. You get to pick: Door #1, or Door #2. Twisted Evil


The women have already chosen, and they overwhelmingly picked the door without the Taliban.


Howee



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PostPosted: 08/21/21 2:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Howee wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Govt officials in a third world country helped themselves to international funds? Shocking. And I told you about Pakistan's support of the Taliban earlier.

Reasons for (and the history of) Pakistan's involvement were more clearly explained in that piece than I'd ever heard before. Now, the corruption? Yes, we all know it goes on around the globe. But I'd say this is a special kind of Evil, considering it has been going on unchecked ever since Bush propped up Karzi, on through to Ghani, who flew off with millions. AND....it's continued on cuz we're too busy to be bothered. But if it's all a big ol' Open Secret, I certainly don't recall ever seeing it highlighted by any journalistic efforts. And, according to the video, local Afghanis DID try to expose this evil, to no avail. To me, this backdrop would create a whole new depth of grief to anyone who lost a loved one over there.


Open Secret?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Afghanistan


Well...."open" in that Wiki has even catalogued it, but "secret" as in 'Let's just not talk about it". Again, it may not be shocking, but it IS particularly Evil, imo, when it's been going on at the expense of US/NATO blood. HOW WAS THIS OVERLOOKED BY 3 ADMINISTRATIONS? It also explains so much about how this wasted money did so little to bolster up Afghanistan for its own independence, and how/why it fell so quickly.



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Stonington_QB



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PostPosted: 08/23/21 1:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/us-secretary-state-antony-blinken-mistakens-ashraf-ghani-hamid-karzai-interview-slip-up-watch-1844299-2021-08-23

The world is now laughing (or shaking their heads in disbelief) at this administration once again after Sec. Blinken tells the press he was just on the phone with "President Karzai."


Howee



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PostPosted: 08/23/21 3:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

After researching THIS:
Howee wrote:
I found this piece reveals one of the deepest, darkest things I've heard yet about how this situation could never begin to *heal* Afghanistan.

....and reviewing Hilary's prescient interview from 2010,

I utterly AND totally recant THIS:
Howee wrote:
We had no role in ushering radical Islam into that place, and it's radical Islam that is Afghanistan's biggest problem.


Tell me again....WHY can't we declare our government to be full of self-serving, greedy bastards? Evil or Very Mad



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PostPosted: 08/23/21 3:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And that lying POS continues to cover his ass.

Quote:
President Joe Biden said Sunday that "a number of changes" had been made in Kabul to ease the ability of Americans and Afghan allies to flee the country amid emerging threats, and admitted there are discussions about extending the August 31 deadline for US troops to leave Afghanistan.

"We have made a number of changes, including extending access around the airport and the safe zone," Biden said, speaking from the White House. While he said he didn't "want to get into the details," he said, more of the people who need to get out are getting out.

"We are working diligently to make sure we've increased the ability to get them out," Biden said. Gate operations were changed, for example, along with "a whole range of things."

But an administration official [Sullivan] told CNN later Sunday that the US military operations at the airport in Kabul have not changed or expanded.


Per CNN, who still has a number of reporters on the ground, the gates are closed, no more Afghanis are being allowed in, at least officially, as it appears some who are known to the US military are being pulled inside, US citizens have been told not to come to the airport and military are going out to try to retrieve them. Families of Afghani journalists and interpreters who are on the Taliban's kill list have been trying to get to the airport but have been beaten back by the Taliban with whips. Latest estimates are a few thousand Americans and 100,000 Afghanis who want to get out.

Quote:
"August 31 is the deadline announced by them. The US must adhere to removing troops from Afghanistan by this date. Otherwise, it will be a clear violation," Taliban Spokesman Sohail Shaheen told CNN on Monday. He said that if there was a delay, "our leadership will take proper and necessary decisions."

After that date, Shaheen said those who wanted to leave "can do so through usual way of using commercial flights and having proper documents like passports and visas."

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/afghanistan-news-taliban-withdrawal-08-23-21/index.html?tab=Evacuations

Biden has to face the G7 tomorrow.


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PostPosted: 08/23/21 6:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:

....and reviewing Hilary's prescient interview from 2010,


Speaking of..

Mrs. Clinton has been using Charter planes to help evacuate Afghan women.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/19/business/afghanistan-news.html

Which puts Republicans in an interesting spot..do we praise Clinton..or go back to siding with Trump (meaning siding with Biden).. Laughing Laughing



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PostPosted: 08/25/21 2:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
We did NOT leave the Afghani military with a significant advantage. In fact, we did everything possible to ensure their failure. We left them without offering one iota of assistance. The Afghani military collapsed because the United States removed all logistical support.

The government asked Biden if they could wait until winter to pull out because the Taliban does not fight in the winter. The answer was, "No, we're leaving now." Then, they asked, "OK, well can you at least support us in maintaining our planes and helicopters?" Biden's response? No. Instead, we had a Zoom meeting to help resolve maintenance issues with the equipment. In addition to that, we also removed all support from contractors in maintaining their fleet.

This administration DELIBERATELY screwed the Afghani people. Why? Well, I suspect China has influence over Joe Biden because they most likely have some very damaging dirt on him. Why would China want to be in Afghanistan? Simple: Afghanistan has the world's largest supply of lithium. Afghanistan is also a part of their road and bridge initiative. There are many other reasons, including strengthening their ability to invade India.

We didn't just betray Afghanistan. We betrayed ALL of our allies in the region. We also left at least 5,000 Americans behind. Some reports say that number is closer to 15,000. In comparison, we lost 3,000 people on 9/11. We also lost a similar number during the Iraq war, in which our news media gleefully reported the casualties on an hourly basis.

Also important to note that this insurrection was headed by a man who was detained in Guantanamo Bay, but was released by then President Obama. For whatever reason, we have multiple pages about January 6th on this board, but no one wants to talk about a real insurrection, with real consequences for our nation. We have not even begun to measure how bad this will be for us. But we will find out.


Very little of this is based on truth. To say we did not leave the Afghani military with a significant advantage. We built the Afghani military into a some 300K strong force, with modern weaponry and a solid air capacity that the Taliban never had and will never have. But the culture of the people there made US efforts from the beginning a futile waste of time and US tax dollars. It did not matter if we pulled out in 2002 or 2003, in 2022, 2032, or 2082. Unless we engaged in a full-out war to destroy the Taliban and much of the tribal regimes that spawned it, what we're seeing now would have happened any of those times. Guaranteed.

My only grievance to how we're doing this is that the planning and prep for the pull-out could have been done better, and with greater organization. Leave the US forces there in full - if anything, add to the 2,500-some forces that Trump whittled it down to by the time Biden took over the White House. Then with strong military presence there, start moving the American and Afghani friendlies out of harm's way first. Get the civilians out first. Then be left with only military assets which would better hold back the Taliban from closing in. Better respond to any Taliban atrocities as they take back the country.

Remove or destroy all US assets left on the ground. The problem with this is, everyone is trying to place blame on Biden for all the US-made weaponry and assets falling into Taliban hands, but the vast majority of those assets were the Afghani military's assets, not the United States' own equipment.

But I have been watching those videos made by the US Army during their joint training of Afghani forces to hold bases and coordinate defenses and assaults on ISIS insurgencies. I have looked in the bloodshot, glassed-over eyes of the Afghani common soldier totally hopped up on opium, slowly trying to fill sand bags like zombies because they couldn't do much more. The nightly defections of the Afghani troops, who return home to their families to defend them there instead of staying with the armed forces. The common Afghani civilian had zero trust in the US-propped up government, as well did the common Afghanistan soldier. The government administrators looked out for only their own self interests, as did the United States too.

The entire operation was a propped up cardboard nation that would only stand as long as the United States wished to forever shoulder the burden, at the expense of tax payers who care little about the tiny country. We already had our Vietnam: Afghanistan was supposed to be Soviet Russia's Vietnam, and it played a HUGE role in the collapse of the Soviet Bloc. The longer we stay there, the longer it serves as some albatross slung over our necks, weighing our nation down....


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3510



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PostPosted: 08/25/21 7:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Conway Gamecock wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
We did NOT leave the Afghani military with a significant advantage. In fact, we did everything possible to ensure their failure. We left them without offering one iota of assistance. The Afghani military collapsed because the United States removed all logistical support.

The government asked Biden if they could wait until winter to pull out because the Taliban does not fight in the winter. The answer was, "No, we're leaving now." Then, they asked, "OK, well can you at least support us in maintaining our planes and helicopters?" Biden's response? No. Instead, we had a Zoom meeting to help resolve maintenance issues with the equipment. In addition to that, we also removed all support from contractors in maintaining their fleet.

This administration DELIBERATELY screwed the Afghani people. Why? Well, I suspect China has influence over Joe Biden because they most likely have some very damaging dirt on him. Why would China want to be in Afghanistan? Simple: Afghanistan has the world's largest supply of lithium. Afghanistan is also a part of their road and bridge initiative. There are many other reasons, including strengthening their ability to invade India.

We didn't just betray Afghanistan. We betrayed ALL of our allies in the region. We also left at least 5,000 Americans behind. Some reports say that number is closer to 15,000. In comparison, we lost 3,000 people on 9/11. We also lost a similar number during the Iraq war, in which our news media gleefully reported the casualties on an hourly basis.

Also important to note that this insurrection was headed by a man who was detained in Guantanamo Bay, but was released by then President Obama. For whatever reason, we have multiple pages about January 6th on this board, but no one wants to talk about a real insurrection, with real consequences for our nation. We have not even begun to measure how bad this will be for us. But we will find out.


Very little of this is based on truth. To say we did not leave the Afghani military with a significant advantage. We built the Afghani military into a some 300K strong force, with modern weaponry and a solid air capacity that the Taliban never had and will never have. But the culture of the people there made US efforts from the beginning a futile waste of time and US tax dollars. It did not matter if we pulled out in 2002 or 2003, in 2022, 2032, or 2082. Unless we engaged in a full-out war to destroy the Taliban and much of the tribal regimes that spawned it, what we're seeing now would have happened any of those times. Guaranteed.

My only grievance to how we're doing this is that the planning and prep for the pull-out could have been done better, and with greater organization. Leave the US forces there in full - if anything, add to the 2,500-some forces that Trump whittled it down to by the time Biden took over the White House. Then with strong military presence there, start moving the American and Afghani friendlies out of harm's way first. Get the civilians out first. Then be left with only military assets which would better hold back the Taliban from closing in. Better respond to any Taliban atrocities as they take back the country.

Remove or destroy all US assets left on the ground. The problem with this is, everyone is trying to place blame on Biden for all the US-made weaponry and assets falling into Taliban hands, but the vast majority of those assets were the Afghani military's assets, not the United States' own equipment.

But I have been watching those videos made by the US Army during their joint training of Afghani forces to hold bases and coordinate defenses and assaults on ISIS insurgencies. I have looked in the bloodshot, glassed-over eyes of the Afghani common soldier totally hopped up on opium, slowly trying to fill sand bags like zombies because they couldn't do much more. The nightly defections of the Afghani troops, who return home to their families to defend them there instead of staying with the armed forces. The common Afghani civilian had zero trust in the US-propped up government, as well did the common Afghanistan soldier. The government administrators looked out for only their own self interests, as did the United States too.

The entire operation was a propped up cardboard nation that would only stand as long as the United States wished to forever shoulder the burden, at the expense of tax payers who care little about the tiny country. We already had our Vietnam: Afghanistan was supposed to be Soviet Russia's Vietnam, and it played a HUGE role in the collapse of the Soviet Bloc. The longer we stay there, the longer it serves as some albatross slung over our necks, weighing our nation down....


One thing that we were kind enough to leave behind is a biometric database of Afghan national security forces including their fingerprints and iris scans, as well as extensive records of Afghans employed by the US along with a computer trail of whom we paid and for what. The Taliban is undoubtedly finding these items very useful in making up their kill lists.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 08/26/21 4:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Eight-plus hours later, 12 dead and 15 injured Americans, and our fearless leader still hasn't bothered to speak to the American public. Disgraceful.


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8834



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PostPosted: 08/26/21 4:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Eight-plus hours later, 12 dead and 15 injured Americans, and our fearless leader still hasn't bothered to speak to the American public. Disgraceful.


Rolling Eyes



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FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 08/26/21 6:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

At least he sounded awake tonight.

We're getting out of a stable situation in Afghanistan because we've been there too long, where we had 5K troops (less than our coalition allies) with the Taliban largely subdued. Now he's committed us to "hunting down" ISIS-K, who just wreaked more havoc on our military in one day than the Taliban has in 2 years, and this hunting operation is going to happen after we've left most of our Afghani intel assets to be executed by the Taliban. That was a nice sound bite.


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