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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 07/29/21 11:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
purduefanatic wrote:
Michael wrote:
NO, no no no..... the money maker for the Big Ten is the BTN, that is why it makes more and distributes more money to each of its schools than any other conference, including the SEC. Explain to me how Iowa St makes the Big Ten more money compared to OkSt, WVU, KU, and certainly A&M. The fact that A&M would make MORE money going to the Big Ten and once again be able to tell UTexas to go to hell is a massive plus for them.


As it stands today, the Big Ten doles out more money to each school. With Texas & Oklahoma, the SEC will get a huge increase in their TV deal, which is way under market value today, and will easily surpass the Big Ten. With that increase, the SEC is going to be in a very strong position to go after the football powers, such as Clemson, Florida State, Ohio State, Michigan, etc. Texas A&M isn't stupid and realizes the massive payday that awaits the SEC in a few years when they can negotiate a new deal.

And as far as the Big XII submitting the letter to ESPN, I love it. They have been at the root and forefront of so many moves in the past that I love the fact they are finally getting called out on it. I have no doubts that they are behind the OU/Texas move and helped to facilitate those talks. They have rights to the SEC as well as to the AAC, which is why they are trying to get some of the remaining Big XII schools to join that league to give it more value. I really can't stand ESPN and try not to watch or click anything associated with them but it's hard at times.


And if A&M brought all the cable subscribers in Texas that $2 a month to the Big Ten, how many millions a month would that bring in? The SEC may well double their football TV deal with ESPN after this move, but that only brings them even with the Big Ten.... If the Big adds two more schools/states, they will easily still outdistance the SEC in revenue produced even if one of them isn't Texas, but adding a Texas school would be HUGE in terms on additional revenue.


Exactly. I would hope the B10 is at least on the phone finding out just how made A&M actually is.


purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 07/29/21 11:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
purduefanatic wrote:
Michael wrote:
NO, no no no..... the money maker for the Big Ten is the BTN, that is why it makes more and distributes more money to each of its schools than any other conference, including the SEC. Explain to me how Iowa St makes the Big Ten more money compared to OkSt, WVU, KU, and certainly A&M. The fact that A&M would make MORE money going to the Big Ten and once again be able to tell UTexas to go to hell is a massive plus for them.


As it stands today, the Big Ten doles out more money to each school. With Texas & Oklahoma, the SEC will get a huge increase in their TV deal, which is way under market value today, and will easily surpass the Big Ten. With that increase, the SEC is going to be in a very strong position to go after the football powers, such as Clemson, Florida State, Ohio State, Michigan, etc. Texas A&M isn't stupid and realizes the massive payday that awaits the SEC in a few years when they can negotiate a new deal.

And as far as the Big XII submitting the letter to ESPN, I love it. They have been at the root and forefront of so many moves in the past that I love the fact they are finally getting called out on it. I have no doubts that they are behind the OU/Texas move and helped to facilitate those talks. They have rights to the SEC as well as to the AAC, which is why they are trying to get some of the remaining Big XII schools to join that league to give it more value. I really can't stand ESPN and try not to watch or click anything associated with them but it's hard at times.


And if A&M brought all the cable subscribers in Texas that $2 a month to the Big Ten, how many millions a month would that bring in? The SEC may well double their football TV deal with ESPN after this move, but that only brings them even with the Big Ten.... If the Big adds two more schools/states, they will easily still outdistance the SEC in revenue produced even if one of them isn't Texas, but adding a Texas school would be HUGE in terms on additional revenue.


SEC set to make more than the NCAA:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2021/07/26/college-football-if-sec-expands-could-match-ncaa-1-3-billion-revenue/5377990001/


PickledGinger



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PostPosted: 07/29/21 1:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For someone who has a negative amount of interest or knowledge of football, would someone please explain to me what AAU is?



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undersized_post



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PostPosted: 07/29/21 2:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:
For someone who has a negative amount of interest or knowledge of football, would someone please explain to me what AAU is?

I feel your disdain for football. Very Happy But AAU actually doesn't have anything to do with football. It stands for Association of American Universities. Member universities have to meet certain academic and research standards to maintain their affiliation. AAU membership has historically been a sort of a pre-req for schools wishing to join the Big Ten. But recently Nebraska lost their AAU status so no it's not entirely clear if the Big Ten is going to stick to that requirement moving forward.


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 07/29/21 2:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:
PickledGinger wrote:
For someone who has a negative amount of interest or knowledge of football, would someone please explain to me what AAU is?

I feel your disdain for football. Very Happy But AAU actually doesn't have anything to do with football. It stands for Association of American Universities. Member universities have to meet certain academic and research standards to maintain their affiliation. AAU membership has historically been a sort of a pre-req for schools wishing to join the Big Ten. But recently Nebraska lost their AAU status so no it's not entirely clear if the Big Ten is going to stick to that requirement moving forward.


Nebraska lost their membership right at the same time they were joining the B10, so all of the planning and arrangements happened while they were AAU members.

It was also kind of bullshit that they were kicked out. There was a change in the criteria how grant funding is counted, with the AAU changing to not count research grants from the USDA in its research metrics. Further the affiliated medical school quit counting because it is technically considered a different campus in the U of Nebraska system. Without those two changes, Nebraska would still be in the AAU.

Syracuse left at the same time, also because they would not longer qualify after changes in research funding metrics.

Leadership of Nebraska have gone on the record saying that they would not have been considered for membership in the B10 had they not been in the AAU at the time of the negotiations.

The organization is primary focused on research and doctoral education / research training. More information, and a list of members, is here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities


purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 07/29/21 5:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The SEC, as expected, formally invited the Texas Longhorns and the Oklahoma Sooners to join their conference. Both schools have meetings scheduled for the morning and could officially accept by the end of the day tomorrow.

I think this officially puts the Big XII on the clock. Are they still an exciting enough conference for schools like Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, Memphis, etc to consider? How committed are the rest of the current members given the loss of revenue that is headed their way in the next few years? Is that lower value still more than what the Mountain West, AAC can offer to the remaining members?

Lots of questions still...


eibln



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PostPosted: 07/30/21 2:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yes I might be ignoring A&M’s dislike for Texas. But again, I don’t think they will bolt from the SEC. The money wouldn’t be the same anywhere else unless they came to the Big Ten which is unlikely.

The Big Ten has tried to add more states, yes, but, adding Iowa State would be beneficial to the conference especially too Iowa because it could open a non-conference game for the Hawkeyes. As well as, bring in more money to the conference. And yes, competitiveness in football will and likely is a top 5 priority in the Big Ten considering that’s the money maker.

The Big Ten never approached Oklahoma State. OSU approached the Big Ten and never got a straight forward answer. And the Big Ten was angry after Nebraska wasn’t a AAU school after joining. Being an AAU school is a top priority.

No the Big Ten may not dissolve but it is very possible that they will get left behind in most conference realignment discussions in the future if they refuse any teams here.[/quote]

NO, no no no..... the money maker for the Big Ten is the BTN, that is why it makes more and distributes more money to each of its schools than any other conference, including the SEC. Explain to me how Iowa St makes the Big Ten more money compared to OkSt, WVU, KU, and certainly A&M. The fact that A&M would make MORE money going to the Big Ten and once again be able to tell UTexas to go to hell is a massive plus for them.[/quote]


I never said that the Big Ten Network wasn’t the Big Tens money maker. I’m not sure where you thought I said that the network wasn’t. I never said Iowa State makes more money than any of those schools. I was stating that they make more money in football that Kansas. But the overall ISU athletic department revenue is less than those schools you listed. My point is Iowa State makes more sense for the conference and would be a great addition in terms of competitiveness to the conference.

I would also like to point out again that reports suggest the Big Ten is not interested in non AAU schools. Which would remove several Big 12 schools from the mix. The Big Ten is trying to push Nebraska back into the AAU. Also, West Virginia is gonna go to the ACC, there is mutual interest between the two parties, so count them out.

Also, as previously stated, Texas A&M is not leaving the SEC. I don’t get why everyone assumed they might want to. Yes, they don’t like Texas but still, they are better off in the same conference. According to ESPN, Texas A&M’s board of regents voted 8-1 to direct the President to vote in favor of extending invites to Oklahoma and Texas. Basically stating that this is what is best for the student athletes and the SEC.
Here is the article: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31907675/texas-board-says-expansion-right-path-directs-president-approve-extending-invites-texas-oklahoma

Doesn’t look like A&M is too upset and doesn’t appear that they are leaving the conference.

Also don’t be surprised when the SEC starts pushing out more money than any other conference when this all said and done. Again the Big Ten is losing the race if they don’t choose to expand.

My picks for expansion would be:
Iowa State
Kansas
Oklahoma State
Pittsburgh
Boston College
Virginia
Baylor
Notre Dame (which won’t ever happen)
Oregon (would be fun)

I would also like to say that I am all for adding non-AAU schools, as you can see from my list of expansion picks above with Oklahoma State on it. But as it looks right now is the Big Ten isn’t interested in non-AAU schools. That decision falls on to Kevin Warren and the presidents of the universities, and they never seem to ask the athletic departments for their opinions unless it’s Ohio State.


eibln



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PostPosted: 07/30/21 2:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yes I might be ignoring A&M’s dislike for Texas. But again, I don’t think they will bolt from the SEC. The money wouldn’t be the same anywhere else unless they came to the Big Ten which is unlikely.

The Big Ten has tried to add more states, yes, but, adding Iowa State would be beneficial to the conference especially too Iowa because it could open a non-conference game for the Hawkeyes. As well as, bring in more money to the conference. And yes, competitiveness in football will and likely is a top 5 priority in the Big Ten considering that’s the money maker.

The Big Ten never approached Oklahoma State. OSU approached the Big Ten and never got a straight forward answer. And the Big Ten was angry after Nebraska wasn’t a AAU school after joining. Being an AAU school is a top priority.

No the Big Ten may not dissolve but it is very possible that they will get left behind in most conference realignment discussions in the future if they refuse any teams here.[/quote]

NO, no no no..... the money maker for the Big Ten is the BTN, that is why it makes more and distributes more money to each of its schools than any other conference, including the SEC. Explain to me how Iowa St makes the Big Ten more money compared to OkSt, WVU, KU, and certainly A&M. The fact that A&M would make MORE money going to the Big Ten and once again be able to tell UTexas to go to hell is a massive plus for them.[/quote]


I never said that the Big Ten Network wasn’t the Big Tens money maker. I’m not sure where you thought I said that the network wasn’t. I never said Iowa State makes more money than any of those schools. I was stating that they make more money in football that Kansas. But the overall ISU athletic department revenue is less than those schools you listed. My point is Iowa State makes more sense for the conference and would be a great addition in terms of competitiveness to the conference.

I would also like to point out again that reports suggest the Big Ten is not interested in non AAU schools. Which would remove several Big 12 schools from the mix. The Big Ten is trying to push Nebraska back into the AAU. Also, West Virginia is gonna go to the ACC, there is mutual interest between the two parties, so count them out.

Also, as previously stated, Texas A&M is not leaving the SEC. I don’t get why everyone assumed they might want to. Yes, they don’t like Texas but still, they are better off in the same conference. According to ESPN, Texas A&M’s board of regents voted 8-1 to direct the President to vote in favor of extending invites to Oklahoma and Texas. Basically stating that this is what is best for the student athletes and the SEC.
Here is the article: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31907675/texas-board-says-expansion-right-path-directs-president-approve-extending-invites-texas-oklahoma

Doesn’t look like A&M is too upset and doesn’t appear that they are leaving the conference.

Also don’t be surprised when the SEC starts pushing out more money than any other conference when this all said and done. Again the Big Ten is losing the race if they don’t choose to expand.

My picks for expansion would be:
Iowa State
Kansas
Oklahoma State
Pittsburgh
Boston College
Virginia
Baylor
Notre Dame (which won’t ever happen)
Oregon (would be fun)

I would also like to say that I am all for adding non-AAU schools, as you can see from my list of expansion picks above with Oklahoma State on it. But as it looks right now is the Big Ten isn’t interested in non-AAU schools. That decision falls on to Kevin Warren and the presidents of the universities, and they never seem to ask the athletic departments for their opinions unless it’s Ohio State.


eibln



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PostPosted: 07/30/21 2:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sorry it posted weirdly. Not sure what happened.


Howee



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PostPosted: 07/30/21 10:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

eibln wrote:
Sorry it posted weirdly. Not sure what happened.

THIS set normal Rebkell functions all awry:

eibln wrote:
Again the Big Ten is losing the race if they don’t choose to expand.

My picks for expansion would be:
Iowa State
Kansas
Oklahoma State
Pittsburgh
Boston College
Virginia
Baylor
Notre Dame (which won’t ever happen)

Oregon (would be fun)


Laughing Laughing Laughing



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purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 07/30/21 12:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

eibln wrote:
My picks for expansion would be:
Iowa State
Kansas
Oklahoma State
Pittsburgh
Boston College
Virginia
Baylor
Notre Dame (which won’t ever happen)
Oregon (would be fun)

I would also like to say that I am all for adding non-AAU schools, as you can see from my list of expansion picks above with Oklahoma State on it. But as it looks right now is the Big Ten isn’t interested in non-AAU schools. That decision falls on to Kevin Warren and the presidents of the universities, and they never seem to ask the athletic departments for their opinions unless it’s Ohio State.


You lost me at Baylor. There is no way in hell that school should be affiliated with the Big Ten. Surprised there is no mention of North Carolina or Georgia Tech. If raiding the ACC is the play here, those would be 2 of the 3 (along with Virginia) that I think should be targeted.

I would be a proponent of Oklahoma State. I feel like they would give the Big Ten another top tier athletic department from the fan base, to the facilities to the athletic programs.

Seeing as we are throwing out out preferences, I would love to see the Big Ten get to 20 teams as I fear the SEC is in the process of getting bigger after the addition of Texas/Oklahoma. I would be happy if the Big Ten could add the following:

Virginia
North Carolina
Georgia Tech
Iowa State
Kansas
Oklahoma State

I'm assuming Texas A&M isn't in play as I doubt they will move. But if they were open to it, replace Iowa State with A&M. That would be a pretty formidable conference. My apologies to fans of ACC teams. I feel like it could become a tug of war for the 2 conferences.


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PostPosted: 07/30/21 4:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

At what point is a conference so large that it is essentially two conferences with a scheduling partnership?

(as a Big East fan I'm mostly just pointing and laughing, but also maybe trying to telepathically convince Kansas to come be Creighton's travel partner)



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purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 07/31/21 9:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
At what point is a conference so large that it is essentially two conferences with a scheduling partnership?

(as a Big East fan I'm mostly just pointing and laughing, but also maybe trying to telepathically convince Kansas to come be Creighton's travel partner)


The Big Ten had approached the Pac-12 back when alignment went crazy in 2010ish about doing a scheduling partnership. It appears as though that is back on the table and that the Pac-12 is open to it now. I wonder if they aren't worried about losing some key members. This will be interesting because both leagues have new commissioners and Warren of the Big Ten already botched the covid football decision last fall and then when he did say football was on, he made it conference only, which totally caught the other P5 commissioners off guard. Hopefully he has learned from his mistakes. If not, the Big Ten might be ripe for the picking by the SEC and you can kiss Ohio State & Michigan good bye. Warren has a lot of work to do to show the members of the league that he can lead the conference.


TechDawgMc



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PostPosted: 08/02/21 4:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Apparently, FSU and Clemson have reached out to the SEC. If they move, the next step would be for the SEC to reach for OSU and Michigan. The Big 10 will almost have to try to work an alliance with the PAC if they want to survive as a major player. Otherwise, the SEC is going to become a super league.


Queenie



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PostPosted: 08/03/21 7:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

oh, ew, Michigan, please maintain some standards



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PostPosted: 08/03/21 11:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TechDawgMc wrote:
Apparently, FSU and Clemson have reached out to the SEC. If they move, the next step would be for the SEC to reach for OSU and Michigan. The Big 10 will almost have to try to work an alliance with the PAC if they want to survive as a major player. Otherwise, the SEC is going to become a super league.


Ewww. ugh, Clemson? Dabo Swine in the SEC? Oh, sorry, wrong sport. But ugh anyway because I cannot abide that man. However, Clemson would be an easy win for most SEC WBB teams, except maybe Florida. FSU, however, would be a worthy addition and opponent.



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PostPosted: 08/03/21 2:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

purduefanatic wrote:
Queenie wrote:
At what point is a conference so large that it is essentially two conferences with a scheduling partnership?

(as a Big East fan I'm mostly just pointing and laughing, but also maybe trying to telepathically convince Kansas to come be Creighton's travel partner)


The Big Ten had approached the Pac-12 back when alignment went crazy in 2010ish about doing a scheduling partnership. It appears as though that is back on the table and that the Pac-12 is open to it now. I wonder if they aren't worried about losing some key members. This will be interesting because both leagues have new commissioners and Warren of the Big Ten already botched the covid football decision last fall and then when he did say football was on, he made it conference only, which totally caught the other P5 commissioners off guard. Hopefully he has learned from his mistakes. If not, the Big Ten might be ripe for the picking by the SEC and you can kiss Ohio State & Michigan good bye. Warren has a lot of work to do to show the members of the league that he can lead the conference.


No school is leaving the Big Ten, in addition to being the top currently money making athletic conference, the academic arm of the conference brings in over a couple billion dollars a year in research grants shared out to member universities. (This was the biggest stumbling block for Notre Dame, they don't have the research capabilities to be part of that and wanted in on that pot of money without qualifying for it)...... The SEC would have to almost double the Big Ten in revenue athletically to make it a money winning proposition to leave the Big Ten to the SEC.......



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PostPosted: 08/04/21 12:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pac 12 and the Big 12 have scheduled meetings.



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PostPosted: 08/04/21 12:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pac 12 and the Big 12 have scheduled meetings.



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PostPosted: 08/13/21 11:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sources -- Pac-12, Big Ten, ACC discussing formation of alliance, likely around scheduling

Quote:
[Pac-12 commissioner] Kliavkoff also met last week with Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby, whose league is reeling from the impending departures of Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC.

Sources said the Big 12 is not currently included in discussions surrounding an alliance with other Power 5 conferences.



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okstateguy



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PostPosted: 08/14/21 2:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Sources -- Pac-12, Big Ten, ACC discussing formation of alliance, likely around scheduling

Quote:
[Pac-12 commissioner] Kliavkoff also met last week with Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby, whose league is reeling from the impending departures of Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC.

Sources said the Big 12 is not currently included in discussions surrounding an alliance with other Power 5 conferences.


The meeting between Big 12 and PAC probably established some foundational pieces moving forward. A full merger was probably taken off the table, a scheduling merger was most likely deemed insufficient to solve either of their financial issues. The 12 team PAC then could go into discussions with the 14 team conferences of ACC and B1G knowing more intimate details of the Big 12 situation, and could discuss their own further expansion in detail to see what would strengthen a scheduling alliance .

My best guess is one of two things will happen:
1)The PAC adds two Big 12 schools to equal the 14 that of the B1G and ACC
2)The Big 12/PAC meeting reached an idea to divide most of the Big 12 among the 3 conferences to get them to 16.

My guess is, if that is the case, OK State and Texas Tech are the two choices. Both have been linked to the PAC in the past, both are taking strides to improve their academic standing. OK State I believe has the higher tv viewership for football of the remaining schools, and of course the strongest tradition, but both are developing deep athletic departments.

WVU could have a silver lining in the sense that the ACC could choose to drop Boston College and add WVU to help cut travel costs for the other conferences(traditional rivalries with Pitt, Louisville, Syracuse, and the Virginia schools should exceed the viewership of any such games with Boston College).

Kansas:their overall athletic department isn't in good shape, and their football program is arguably the worst in the P5.

TCU/Baylor: being religious schools looking for P5 conference in 2021 might not be their friend(and I believe they have two of the lower tv viewerships for football among the remaining schools).

Kansas State: not known for academics, not really a standout athletically, not the strongest tradition, and don't really standout in tv viewership when in relation with others.



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PostPosted: 08/14/21 7:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One of the Marquette bloggers has steadily been beating the drum that Kansas should join the Big East if the Big XII dissolves, and I can see the fit. Strong men's basketball program, a natural travel partner for Creighton (well, more natural than anyone else in the conference, since the last time we had travel buddies Creighton's partner was Providence), the ability to have a not-terrible WBB program if they actually work at it, someone for UConn to play football with sometimes while the rest of the conference giggles into their sleeves. I'm personally not thrilled with large schools that have football, but I guess that's a thing since we let UConn back in (still not happy about that).



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PostPosted: 08/15/21 11:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

maybe the Kansas schools join the Mtn. West.
and TCU used to be in the Mtn. West, so perhaps go back.


okstateguy



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PostPosted: 08/18/21 1:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Zach Miller of medium.com(would post link but it was massive in size). His exact description of his ranking is below, as well as the ranking of the remaining Big 12 and PAC schools. Not sure the accuracy of these rankings, and don't really have the time to sit and do the research and averages.

"Once again, I ranked every Power 5 team, plus Notre Dame and the eight schools most popularly mentioned as Big 12 expansion candidates: Boise State, BYU, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, SMU, UCF and USF.

The numbers next to each school indicate the average number of viewers per week from 2015–19. Streaming numbers are included when available.
Conference championship games and bowl games are not included in these numbers. Games that were not nationally televised count as a zero, unless streaming data was available."

16. Southern Cal (1.98M)
19. Oklahoma State (1.64M)
24. TCU (1.495M)

25. Stanford (1.43M)
26. Oregon (1.34M)
28. Washington (1.32M)
30. West Virginia (1.27M)
32. UCLA (1.25M)
35. Baylor (1.12M)
37. Texas Tech (921K)
38. Washington State (909K)
40. Utah (856K)
44. Iowa State (747K)
45. California (730K)
48. Arizona State (695K)
51. Kansas State (682K)
56. Colorado (610K)
60. Arizona (561K)
70. Kansas (346K)
71. Oregon State (295K)

For what it's worth, it seems like the PAC should be very much looking into OK State and TCU to strengthen their brand, and open up the chance for their teams to gain one or two more games in the CST to try to boost ratings.

TCU is not governed by the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ, but the denomination itself affirms LGBTQ+ and women to membership and ordination into ministry, is very moderate on the issue of abortion, and are viewed as liberals or heretics by a vast majority of evangelical Christians. So they are very much in a different situation than Baylor and BYU.



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PostPosted: 08/20/21 2:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

okstateguy wrote:
For what it's worth, it seems like the PAC should be very much looking into OK State and TCU to strengthen their brand, and open up the chance for their teams to gain one or two more games in the CST to try to boost ratings.

TCU is not governed by the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ, but the denomination itself affirms LGBTQ+ and women to membership and ordination into ministry, is very moderate on the issue of abortion, and are viewed as liberals or heretics by a vast majority of evangelical Christians. So they are very much in a different situation than Baylor and BYU.


Very interesting about TCU. Thanks for sharing that! I suppose I have a better opinion on them now…



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