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okstateguy



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PostPosted: 07/22/21 10:11 pm    ::: Will the Big 12 survive? Reply Reply with quote

With the news of OU and Texas contacting the SEC for membership leaking, neither side not actually denying it, and a meeting of Big 12 leaders, what are your opinions on the future of the Big 12? Do you see:

1. Big 12 adding 2-4 teams and attempting to create a network
2. OU and Texas leave and Big 12 recruits 2-4 other schools to form a lesser conference
3. All but 1 team(likely Baylor or TCU) is absorbed into other P5 conferences
4. Any other option you can think of

If options 2-4, where would you like to see certain teams land? I would personally like to see my Pokes land in the Big 10 if it folds or OU and Texas leave



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PostPosted: 07/22/21 10:35 pm    ::: Re: Will the Big 12 survive? Reply Reply with quote

okstateguy wrote:
With the news of OU and Texas contacting the SEC for membership leaking, neither side not actually denying it, and a meeting of Big 12 leaders, what are your opinions on the future of the Big 12? Do you see:

1. Big 12 adding 2-4 teams and attempting to create a network
2. OU and Texas leave and Big 12 recruits 2-4 other schools to form a lesser conference
3. All but 1 team(likely Baylor or TCU) is absorbed into other P5 conferences
4. Any other option you can think of

If options 2-4, where would you like to see certain teams land? I would personally like to see my Pokes land in the Big 10 if it folds or OU and Texas leave


I think if OU & Texas leave, the Big XII is in a heap of trouble, especially financially. I don't care if you bring in Houston, BYU, Memphis, Cincinnati, Central Florida, South Florida or whoever else but it just won't command the same money without the 2 big names.

If those 2 do move to the SEC, I have a feeling the Big 10 would look to add 2 more to keep pace. If they do, I would think the 2 AAU members of the league, Iowa State and Kansas would be the ones to get invites. Iowa State has a pretty solid MBB program while the football program has made amazing strides and is in the top 10. Kansas has one of the worst football programs in the country while their basketball program is one of the best. However, I don't know if Iowa would approve of that or not. Clearly Florida doesn't want Florida State in the SEC and I wonder if the same thought process applies to the Hawkeyes as well. If Iowa State is a no go because of Iowa, I'm not sure what happens then.

I firmly believe this is all going to be a re-positioning of sorts to capitalize on the NIL and moving away from the NCAA. It wouldn't surprise me if the P5 turns into the P4 or possibly even the P3.

But, to answer your question, I really don't see how the Big XII remains a viable P5 league without those 2 schools. There just aren't schools out there that can be added IMO to maintain that level across the board.


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PostPosted: 07/22/21 10:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

All good questions, but I'm afraid they're moot. These decisions will be made based on football revenue and women's sports won't even enter into the discussion.


okstateguy



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PostPosted: 07/22/21 11:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've seen several suggest that we are headed for 4 16 team conferences more geographically located to maximize deals and the NIL. If that's the case, we are most likely going to see several P5 teams get the axe.

Vanderbilt, Mizzou, Rutgers, Northwestern, Colorado, Utah, Boston College, Wake Forest, TCU, Baylor, and Kansas State are all in possible risks of sliding down in this scenario.

Cincinatti and UCF could definitely sneak their way into one of these conferences.



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 7:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

okstateguy wrote:
I've seen several suggest that we are headed for 4 16 team conferences more geographically located to maximize deals and the NIL. If that's the case, we are most likely going to see several P5 teams get the axe.

Vanderbilt, Mizzou, Rutgers, Northwestern, Colorado, Utah, Boston College, Wake Forest, TCU, Baylor, and Kansas State are all in possible risks of sliding down in this scenario.

Cincinatti and UCF could definitely sneak their way into one of these conferences.


Not knowing much about this, could you explain the reasoning behind how having "four 16 team conferences more geographically located" would "maximize deals and the NIL"? Or link me to an article?


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PostPosted: 07/23/21 8:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/kbohls/status/1418553992691466245

Quote:
Prominent Big 12 source tells the American-Statesman the Texas-OU move to the SEC is almost done. "They've been working on this for a minimum of 6 months, and the A&M leadership was left out of discussions and wasn't told about it." Move could become official in a week.


Sounds like it's essentially a done deal. If so, I wonder when it would take effect. Funny that Vic Schaefer would end up right back in the SEC. And I wouldn't envy the job Jennie Baranczyk has ahead of her at OU-- not only a new school but potentially a new and even more difficult conference.


purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 8:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One thing I have heard at a few schools is some concern over loss of marketing revenue, i.e. the boosters and businesses will not give (or give as much) to the athletic departments but will start giving that money to individual players and/or teams. For the P5, that money can be in the tens of millions depending on the school.

In the post-NIL world, those programs are going to look to replace those funds with TV deals and trying to figure out how to maximize that. The people I have talked to feel that a break from the NCAA (possibly just P5 football) is most likely, esp with the NIL rules now in place and the direction everything is headed.

It looks like a "closing of the ranks" may take place sooner rather than later.

Now, none of this could come to fruition, but the OK/Texas move would certainly seem to be a move to solidify themselves amongst a group of schools in the SEC that will certainly be at the forefront of any change that does take place.

Of course, all of this is coming at a time where pretty much all schools are still trying to recover from the loss of funds due to covid over the past year and a half.


mred



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 9:09 am    ::: Re: Will the Big 12 survive? Reply Reply with quote

purduefanatic wrote:
However, I don't know if Iowa would approve of that or not. Clearly Florida doesn't want Florida State in the SEC and I wonder if the same thought process applies to the Hawkeyes as well. If Iowa State is a no go because of Iowa, I'm not sure what happens then.


I'm not sure who has ultimate authority to vote yes/no on these sorts of things, but it might be relevant that the three public universities in Iowa (Iowa, Iowa State, Northern Iowa) are all essentially one system -- they are governed by a single board of regents overseeing all three.


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PostPosted: 07/23/21 9:27 am    ::: Re: Will the Big 12 survive? Reply Reply with quote

mred wrote:
purduefanatic wrote:
However, I don't know if Iowa would approve of that or not. Clearly Florida doesn't want Florida State in the SEC and I wonder if the same thought process applies to the Hawkeyes as well. If Iowa State is a no go because of Iowa, I'm not sure what happens then.


I'm not sure who has ultimate authority to vote yes/no on these sorts of things, but it might be relevant that the three public universities in Iowa (Iowa, Iowa State, Northern Iowa) are all essentially one system -- they are governed by a single board of regents overseeing all three.


Hmmm, I had no idea that was the case and I have no idea if that would play into it or not. Course, I suppose the Big Ten could do what the SEC has appeared to do and go behind the back of a member school that would outright disapprove.

Thank you for that tidbit of information. Very interesting to know.


okstateguy



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 11:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:
okstateguy wrote:
I've seen several suggest that we are headed for 4 16 team conferences more geographically located to maximize deals and the NIL. If that's the case, we are most likely going to see several P5 teams get the axe.

Vanderbilt, Mizzou, Rutgers, Northwestern, Colorado, Utah, Boston College, Wake Forest, TCU, Baylor, and Kansas State are all in possible risks of sliding down in this scenario.

Cincinatti and UCF could definitely sneak their way into one of these conferences.


Not knowing much about this, could you explain the reasoning behind how having "four 16 team conferences more geographically located" would "maximize deals and the NIL"? Or link me to an article?


The basis behind it being that football would seek to separate into two tiers. The top tier would be the 4 16 team conferences. Basically being the conferences would play out, they would have a playoff or just championship game, and then the winners of the conferences would play in a 4 team playoff for the championship(or some variation of this). I've seen several mention, I read an article but I'd have to go back to find it. Basically it would give the conferences more leverage than the NCAA, and basically shift the power to them. NCAA has already hinted NIL is first step in reducing role of NCAA, realignment will probably end up being it's undoing or complete restructuring



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 11:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:
https://twitter.com/kbohls/status/1418553992691466245

Quote:
Prominent Big 12 source tells the American-Statesman the Texas-OU move to the SEC is almost done. "They've been working on this for a minimum of 6 months, and the A&M leadership was left out of discussions and wasn't told about it." Move could become official in a week.


Sounds like it's essentially a done deal. If so, I wonder when it would take effect. Funny that Vic Schaefer would end up right back in the SEC. And I wouldn't envy the job Jennie Baranczyk has ahead of her at OU-- not only a new school but potentially a new and even more difficult conference.


That was one of my first thoughts.



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 11:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:
https://twitter.com/kbohls/status/1418553992691466245

Quote:
Prominent Big 12 source tells the American-Statesman the Texas-OU move to the SEC is almost done. "They've been working on this for a minimum of 6 months, and the A&M leadership was left out of discussions and wasn't told about it." Move could become official in a week.


Sounds like it's essentially a done deal. If so, I wonder when it would take effect. Funny that Vic Schaefer would end up right back in the SEC. And I wouldn't envy the job Jennie Baranczyk has ahead of her at OU-- not only a new school but potentially a new and even more difficult conference.


That was one of my first thoughts.



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 11:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I personally see TCU and Baylor both getting left behind in realignment. Don't believe the Pac-12 would take them, and the SEC or Big 10 wouldn't want them. Conference USA, AAC, or Mountain West seems more likely for those 2, which I assume means that Baylor follows the path of LA Tech and ODU into obscurity.



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 12:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I suspect the SEC will find the same thing the WAC did when it expanded to 16 teams in the mid 90's. Too much travel, too many lost traditional rivalries, and ultimately not enough money when you split a slightly bigger pie 16 ways.



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 12:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Even more evidence that things are looking official:
https://247sports.com/college/texas/LongFormArticle/Texas-Longhorns-Oklahoma-Sooners-leave-Big-12-join-SEC-conference-realignment-Texas-OU-football-Texas-AM-168151146/#168151146_5

So if the Power 5 as we know it were to be become a Power 4 of four 16-team conferences and break away from the NCAA, what would that look like for sports like women's basketball? Would there still be non-conference games with mid majors? Would the post season tournament only include the top finishers from the major conferences? So many questions


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PostPosted: 07/23/21 1:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
I suspect the SEC will find the same thing the WAC did when it expanded to 16 teams in the mid 90's. Too much travel, too many lost traditional rivalries, and ultimately not enough money when you split a slightly bigger pie 16 ways.


Except the SEC will have exponentially more money to spread around than the WAC. The TV rights that the SEC will be able to get for just football with this powerhouse conference will be absolutely ridiculous. When you add Texas & Oklahoma to Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Florida, Auburn, Tennessee, Texas A&M, etc, you have roughly half of the Top 20 programs in the country. I highly doubt money will be an issue anytime soon.


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PostPosted: 07/23/21 2:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

purduefanatic wrote:
pilight wrote:
I suspect the SEC will find the same thing the WAC did when it expanded to 16 teams in the mid 90's. Too much travel, too many lost traditional rivalries, and ultimately not enough money when you split a slightly bigger pie 16 ways.


Except the SEC will have exponentially more money to spread around than the WAC. The TV rights that the SEC will be able to get for just football with this powerhouse conference will be absolutely ridiculous. When you add Texas & Oklahoma to Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Florida, Auburn, Tennessee, Texas A&M, etc, you have roughly half of the Top 20 programs in the country. I highly doubt money will be an issue anytime soon.


They're not going to get as much as they expect, especially if Texas proposes to keep most of its games on Longhorn Network.



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okstateguy



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 2:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
purduefanatic wrote:
pilight wrote:
I suspect the SEC will find the same thing the WAC did when it expanded to 16 teams in the mid 90's. Too much travel, too many lost traditional rivalries, and ultimately not enough money when you split a slightly bigger pie 16 ways.


Except the SEC will have exponentially more money to spread around than the WAC. The TV rights that the SEC will be able to get for just football with this powerhouse conference will be absolutely ridiculous. When you add Texas & Oklahoma to Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Florida, Auburn, Tennessee, Texas A&M, etc, you have roughly half of the Top 20 programs in the country. I highly doubt money will be an issue anytime soon.


They're not going to get as much as they expect, especially if Texas proposes to keep most of its games on Longhorn Network.


Texas has allegedly stated(I'd say rumors at this point) they would be open to ending the LHN. They appear all in on the SEC.



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 2:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

okstateguy wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
https://twitter.com/kbohls/status/1418553992691466245

Quote:
Prominent Big 12 source tells the American-Statesman the Texas-OU move to the SEC is almost done. "They've been working on this for a minimum of 6 months, and the A&M leadership was left out of discussions and wasn't told about it." Move could become official in a week.


Sounds like it's essentially a done deal. If so, I wonder when it would take effect. Funny that Vic Schaefer would end up right back in the SEC. And I wouldn't envy the job Jennie Baranczyk has ahead of her at OU-- not only a new school but potentially a new and even more difficult conference.


That was one of my first thoughts.


My understanding is that the move is ONLY for football. They don't really want to move for other sports. There are schools in the SEC that will kick their a**es in basketball (men's AND women's), baseball, and softball, to name a few, not to mention some so-called "minor" sports. Oklahoma may have an edge in men's gymnastics, but LSU and UGA will give them a fight on the women's side. And let's not bring up track and field, or swimming and diving. They only want in for football because they think they can beat Bama. Not so fast, boys.



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okstateguy



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 3:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:
Even more evidence that things are looking official:
https://247sports.com/college/texas/LongFormArticle/Texas-Longhorns-Oklahoma-Sooners-leave-Big-12-join-SEC-conference-realignment-Texas-OU-football-Texas-AM-168151146/#168151146_5

So if the Power 5 as we know it were to be become a Power 4 of four 16-team conferences and break away from the NCAA, what would that look like for sports like women's basketball? Would there still be non-conference games with mid majors? Would the post season tournament only include the top finishers from the major conferences? So many questions


From the way it seems, the 4 conference system appears more geared to football at this point. I could see them creating a sub-division of lower conferences in football, than having more traditional post-seasons for other sports. But it could be scrapped altogether as well. Hard to see much sense in all this chaos.



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 3:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
okstateguy wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
https://twitter.com/kbohls/status/1418553992691466245

Quote:
Prominent Big 12 source tells the American-Statesman the Texas-OU move to the SEC is almost done. "They've been working on this for a minimum of 6 months, and the A&M leadership was left out of discussions and wasn't told about it." Move could become official in a week.


Sounds like it's essentially a done deal. If so, I wonder when it would take effect. Funny that Vic Schaefer would end up right back in the SEC. And I wouldn't envy the job Jennie Baranczyk has ahead of her at OU-- not only a new school but potentially a new and even more difficult conference.


That was one of my first thoughts.



My understanding is that the move is ONLY for football. They don't really want to move for other sports. There are schools in the SEC that will kick their a**es in basketball (men's AND women's), baseball, and softball, to name a few, not to mention some so-called "minor" sports. Oklahoma may have an edge in men's gymnastics, but LSU and UGA will give them a fight on the women's side. And let's not bring up track and field, or swimming and diving. They only want in for football because they think they can beat Bama. Not so fast, boys.


Appears to be all sports. If it was for football alone, they would have joined the league's emergency meeting on contingency plans moving forward. They both declined. Kansas allegedly already has a meeting with the Big 10, Texas Tech, TCU, and another school has already contacted the Pac 12. Seems all but certain that it's been relayed to the rest of the Big 12 that it's a complete exit, and it's happening.



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 5:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

okstateguy wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
okstateguy wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
https://twitter.com/kbohls/status/1418553992691466245

Quote:
Prominent Big 12 source tells the American-Statesman the Texas-OU move to the SEC is almost done. "They've been working on this for a minimum of 6 months, and the A&M leadership was left out of discussions and wasn't told about it." Move could become official in a week.


Sounds like it's essentially a done deal. If so, I wonder when it would take effect. Funny that Vic Schaefer would end up right back in the SEC. And I wouldn't envy the job Jennie Baranczyk has ahead of her at OU-- not only a new school but potentially a new and even more difficult conference.


That was one of my first thoughts.



My understanding is that the move is ONLY for football. They don't really want to move for other sports. There are schools in the SEC that will kick their a**es in basketball (men's AND women's), baseball, and softball, to name a few, not to mention some so-called "minor" sports. Oklahoma may have an edge in men's gymnastics, but LSU and UGA will give them a fight on the women's side. And let's not bring up track and field, or swimming and diving. They only want in for football because they think they can beat Bama. Not so fast, boys.


Appears to be all sports. If it was for football alone, they would have joined the league's emergency meeting on contingency plans moving forward. They both declined. Kansas allegedly already has a meeting with the Big 10, Texas Tech, TCU, and another school has already contacted the Pac 12. Seems all but certain that it's been relayed to the rest of the Big 12 that it's a complete exit, and it's happening.


That is not what I read in Knoxville media this morning. Tennessee is cool to the idea.



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 5:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

okstateguy wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
okstateguy wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
https://twitter.com/kbohls/status/1418553992691466245

Quote:
Prominent Big 12 source tells the American-Statesman the Texas-OU move to the SEC is almost done. "They've been working on this for a minimum of 6 months, and the A&M leadership was left out of discussions and wasn't told about it." Move could become official in a week.


Sounds like it's essentially a done deal. If so, I wonder when it would take effect. Funny that Vic Schaefer would end up right back in the SEC. And I wouldn't envy the job Jennie Baranczyk has ahead of her at OU-- not only a new school but potentially a new and even more difficult conference.


That was one of my first thoughts.



My understanding is that the move is ONLY for football. They don't really want to move for other sports. There are schools in the SEC that will kick their a**es in basketball (men's AND women's), baseball, and softball, to name a few, not to mention some so-called "minor" sports. Oklahoma may have an edge in men's gymnastics, but LSU and UGA will give them a fight on the women's side. And let's not bring up track and field, or swimming and diving. They only want in for football because they think they can beat Bama. Not so fast, boys.


Appears to be all sports. If it was for football alone, they would have joined the league's emergency meeting on contingency plans moving forward. They both declined. Kansas allegedly already has a meeting with the Big 10, Texas Tech, TCU, and another school has already contacted the Pac 12. Seems all but certain that it's been relayed to the rest of the Big 12 that it's a complete exit, and it's happening.


That is not what I read in Knoxville media this morning. Tennessee is cool to the idea.



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 6:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
okstateguy wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
okstateguy wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
https://twitter.com/kbohls/status/1418553992691466245

Quote:
Prominent Big 12 source tells the American-Statesman the Texas-OU move to the SEC is almost done. "They've been working on this for a minimum of 6 months, and the A&M leadership was left out of discussions and wasn't told about it." Move could become official in a week.


Sounds like it's essentially a done deal. If so, I wonder when it would take effect. Funny that Vic Schaefer would end up right back in the SEC. And I wouldn't envy the job Jennie Baranczyk has ahead of her at OU-- not only a new school but potentially a new and even more difficult conference.



That was one of my first thoughts.



My understanding is that the move is ONLY for football. They don't really want to move for other sports. There are schools in the SEC that will kick their a**es in basketball (men's AND women's), baseball, and softball, to name a few, not to mention some so-called "minor" sports. Oklahoma may have an edge in men's gymnastics, but LSU and UGA will give them a fight on the women's side. And let's not bring up track and field, or swimming and diving. They only want in for football because they think they can beat Bama. Not so fast, boys.


Appears to be all sports. If it was for football alone, they would have joined the league's emergency meeting on contingency plans moving forward. They both declined. Kansas allegedly already has a meeting with the Big 10, Texas Tech, TCU, and another school has already contacted the Pac 12. Seems all but certain that it's been relayed to the rest of the Big 12 that it's a complete exit, and it's happening.


That is not what I read in Knoxville media this morning. Tennessee is cool to the idea.


Everything in Big 12 country is saying they've been in discussions for potentially a year, and that TAMU was kept out of the loop. Based on the reaction of the Big 12 schools, they know the Big 12 is over, and most likely before 2025. If Texas and OU get denied for the SEC(personally don't see the SEC schools leaving all those future earnings on the table that would come with their brands), I see them hopping over to the PAC 12 with Texas Tech and OK State. I'd love to keep hearing the SEC country coverage as opposed to Big 12 coverage. Seems like a complete mess, just don't know if it's by design or not lol



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PostPosted: 07/23/21 6:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
okstateguy wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
okstateguy wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
https://twitter.com/kbohls/status/1418553992691466245

Quote:
Prominent Big 12 source tells the American-Statesman the Texas-OU move to the SEC is almost done. "They've been working on this for a minimum of 6 months, and the A&M leadership was left out of discussions and wasn't told about it." Move could become official in a week.


Sounds like it's essentially a done deal. If so, I wonder when it would take effect. Funny that Vic Schaefer would end up right back in the SEC. And I wouldn't envy the job Jennie Baranczyk has ahead of her at OU-- not only a new school but potentially a new and even more difficult conference.



That was one of my first thoughts.



My understanding is that the move is ONLY for football. They don't really want to move for other sports. There are schools in the SEC that will kick their a**es in basketball (men's AND women's), baseball, and softball, to name a few, not to mention some so-called "minor" sports. Oklahoma may have an edge in men's gymnastics, but LSU and UGA will give them a fight on the women's side. And let's not bring up track and field, or swimming and diving. They only want in for football because they think they can beat Bama. Not so fast, boys.


Appears to be all sports. If it was for football alone, they would have joined the league's emergency meeting on contingency plans moving forward. They both declined. Kansas allegedly already has a meeting with the Big 10, Texas Tech, TCU, and another school has already contacted the Pac 12. Seems all but certain that it's been relayed to the rest of the Big 12 that it's a complete exit, and it's happening.


That is not what I read in Knoxville media this morning. Tennessee is cool to the idea.


Everything in Big 12 country is saying they've been in discussions for potentially a year, and that TAMU was kept out of the loop. Based on the reaction of the Big 12 schools, they know the Big 12 is over, and most likely before 2025. If Texas and OU get denied for the SEC(personally don't see the SEC schools leaving all those future earnings on the table that would come with their brands), I see them hopping over to the PAC 12 with Texas Tech and OK State. I'd love to keep hearing the SEC country coverage as opposed to Big 12 coverage. Seems like a complete mess, just don't know if it's by design or not lol



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