| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
huskiemaniac
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 1049
Location: NE CT
Back to top |
|
undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 2864
Back to top |
|
Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
Back to top |
|
huskiemaniac
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 1049
Location: NE CT
Back to top |
|
lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 10697
Location: Minnesota
Back to top |
|
PG4ever
Joined: 14 May 2020
Posts: 426
Back to top |
 Posted: 06/29/21 12:47 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
| I'm withholding judgment until the investigation is completed. Probably the majority of today's coaches could be accused of "verbal abuse." "Unwanted physical contact" could mean grabbing a player's arm or pulling on her jersey to get her attention. It could also mean the alleged kissing on the forehead, which if true, would be inappropriate IMO. "Refusing players' requests for water after running punishing sprints" could mean that players had a water break before the sprints and then Hillsman required them to do the sprints before another water break (appropriate IMO) or it could mean that he never allowed the players to have water during the entire workout (inappropriate IMO). Have an impartial investigation and go from there. If there was a pattern of inappropriate behavior and the university ignored students then both Hillsman and the university should face consequences.
|
|
summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7819
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/29/21 1:22 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| PG4ever wrote: |
| I'm withholding judgment until the investigation is completed. Probably the majority of today's coaches could be accused of "verbal abuse." "Unwanted physical contact" could mean grabbing a player's arm or pulling on her jersey to get her attention. It could also mean the alleged kissing on the forehead, which if true, would be inappropriate IMO. "Refusing players' requests for water after running punishing sprints" could mean that players had a water break before the sprints and then Hillsman required them to do the sprints before another water break (appropriate IMO) or it could mean that he never allowed the players to have water during the entire workout (inappropriate IMO). Have an impartial investigation and go from there. If there was a pattern of inappropriate behavior and the university ignored students then both Hillsman and the university should face consequences. |
What you said.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
|
|
undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 2864
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/29/21 1:42 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| PG4ever wrote: |
| I'm withholding judgment until the investigation is completed. Probably the majority of today's coaches could be accused of "verbal abuse." "Unwanted physical contact" could mean grabbing a player's arm or pulling on her jersey to get her attention. It could also mean the alleged kissing on the forehead, which if true, would be inappropriate IMO. "Refusing players' requests for water after running punishing sprints" could mean that players had a water break before the sprints and then Hillsman required them to do the sprints before another water break (appropriate IMO) or it could mean that he never allowed the players to have water during the entire workout (inappropriate IMO). Have an impartial investigation and go from there. If there was a pattern of inappropriate behavior and the university ignored students then both Hillsman and the university should face consequences. |
I agree with all you say here, but for me, you didn't address the most troubling accusation: "One player also said she felt violated when Hillsman wrapped his arms around her from behind and put his hands near her pelvic region, before brushing it off as a joke. Two others witnessed the incident." (I'm quoting from the Athletic article in the OP.)
Plus, what do y'all think about hiring the assistant formerly accused of sexual harassment? The assistant was Ronnie Enoch, described here as a longtime friend of Hillsman. So beyond the alleged sexual harrassment, which should already be disqualifying IMO, it's also nepotism.
|
|
huskiemaniac
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 1049
Location: NE CT
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/29/21 2:14 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Maybe if it were only 1 or 2 players...but based solely on the numbers, I'm inclined to believe the accusations.
When a couple of star ex-players sort of come to his defense, mostly by ragging on the transfers, I'm reminded of rich white guys' reaction to systemic police brutality/murder of blacks..."I've never had a problem with police. If [the victim] had simply complied..."
|
|
NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 4929
Back to top |
|
FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3510
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/29/21 3:35 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Because it's so conceivable that someone can milk any additional benefit out of chemotherapy, bilateral mastectomies, and reconstructive surgery. Sheesh. Some of those teammates apparently objected to her missing 6 am practices while she was undergoing chemo.
|
|
WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12528
Location: Dallas , Texas
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/29/21 3:44 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Because it's so conceivable that someone can milk any additional benefit out of chemotherapy, bilateral mastectomies, and reconstructive surgery. Sheesh. Some of those teammates apparently objected to her missing 6 am practices while she was undergoing chemo. |
Probably those same teammates making the accusations .
_________________
3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
|
|
NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 4929
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/29/21 4:00 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Because it's so conceivable that someone can milk any additional benefit out of chemotherapy, bilateral mastectomies, and reconstructive surgery. Sheesh. Some of those teammates apparently objected to her missing 6 am practices while she was undergoing chemo. |
Probably those same teammates making the accusations . |
Which doesn’t necessarily make those accusations less true. There was definitely something messy with Syracuse women’s basketball. A lot of it is culture related In terms of not bringing in the Right Personnel to create successful program. That falls on the Coach. Then there’s some pretty egregious concerns about specific behavior that is very unjustifiable if there be any truth to it.
|
|
WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12528
Location: Dallas , Texas
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/29/21 4:13 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| NoDakSt wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Because it's so conceivable that someone can milk any additional benefit out of chemotherapy, bilateral mastectomies, and reconstructive surgery. Sheesh. Some of those teammates apparently objected to her missing 6 am practices while she was undergoing chemo. |
Probably those same teammates making the accusations . |
Which doesn’t necessarily make those accusations less true. There was definitely something messy with Syracuse women’s basketball. A lot of it is culture related In terms of not bringing in the Right Personnel to create successful program. That falls on the Coach. Then there’s some pretty egregious concerns about specific behavior that is very unjustifiable if there be any truth to it. |
A certain board has been practically calling for an accusation since the transfers began , now someone has spoke up and were suppose to believe their intent with no substantial evidence besides WOM ? If true FIRE HIM , but it just seems to coincidental for me tbh .
_________________
3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
|
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8225
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/29/21 5:09 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I can't read the paywall stories.
Has any player actually stepped forward to file a formal or legal complaint against Hillsman, or are all these froufrou "facts" flowing from a media story dug up from anonymous sources?
Has Hillsman ever been accused of improper behavior before?
How many transfers has Hillsman had per year before this past Covid/easy-transfer year?
I'd like to know the answers to these questions, in addition to awaiting the results of any investigation performed by Syracuse, before acting like a judge, jury or executioner. |
|
FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3510
Back to top |
|
Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18029
Location: Queens
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/29/21 5:37 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
This has all the earmarks of something that is going to get ugly, nasty, and brutal in a hurry.
FWIW I would not be surprised if there were some substance to at least some of the rumors; there were rumors of him being sleazy in the transfer game back when Syracuse was in the Big East. But I would also not be surprised if he genuinely didn't mean anything by some of the physical contact, because my impression of him is that he has all the self-awareness of a small cashew.
_________________
Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
|
|
huskiemaniac
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 1049
Location: NE CT
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/29/21 6:04 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Queenie wrote: |
This has all the earmarks of something that is going to get ugly, nasty, and brutal in a hurry.
FWIW I would not be surprised if there were some substance to at least some of the rumors; there were rumors of him being sleazy in the transfer game back when Syracuse was in the Big East. But I would also not be surprised if he genuinely didn't mean anything by some of the physical contact, because my impression of him is that he has all the self-awareness of a small cashew. |
Imo, QH is a good recruiter, pedestrian XO coach, lame personality.
Syracuse would do well to part ways and avoid a Duke scenario.
Last edited by huskiemaniac on 06/29/21 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
PG4ever
Joined: 14 May 2020
Posts: 426
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/29/21 7:22 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
[quote="undersized_post"]
| PG4ever wrote: |
| I'm withholding judgment until the investigation is completed. Probably the majority of today's coaches could be accused of "verbal abuse." "Unwanted physical contact" could mean grabbing a player's arm or pulling on her jersey to get her attention. It could also mean the alleged kissing on the forehead, which if true, would be inappropriate IMO. "Refusing players' requests for water after running punishing sprints" could mean that players had a water break before the sprints and then Hillsman required them to do the sprints before another water break (appropriate IMO) or it could mean that he never allowed the players to have water during the entire workout (inappropriate IMO). Have an impartial investigation and go from there. If there was a pattern of inappropriate behavior and the university ignored students then both Hillsman and the university should face consequences. |
[quote] I agree with all you say here, but for me, you didn't address the most troubling accusation: "One player also said she felt violated when Hillsman wrapped his arms around her from behind and put his hands near her pelvic region, before brushing it off as a joke. Two others witnessed the incident." (I'm quoting from the Athletic article in the OP.)[quote]
If that happened as alleged, it's inexcusable. I'm not trying to excuse Hillsman. If he's a perp, he's a perp. I'm just saying that, depending on context, these incidents could be interpreted in different ways. For example, if the players were on the court and Hillsman was coaching and put his hands on a player's waist area to move them into a particular position, that could be construed as inappropriate behavior. The reporter said that two others witnessed the incident. Hopefully they'll be interviewed as well and can corroborate the allegations and it won't be a he said-she said situation. Today I was watching an old recording of Vic Schaefer's press conference and there are some highlights that show him at one point talking to a player as she comes off the court; he's close to her face and presses his cheek against her (#24 Danberry) face. Here's the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH0k3CpTu28. Somewhere around the 11:32 mark. Is that inappropriate? I don't think Schaefer meant any harm but that might have made that player feel uncomfortable. The case against Hillsman may end up being cut and dry against him but it's not always cut and dry.
|
|
undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 2864
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/29/21 9:53 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| PG4ever wrote: |
| undersized_post wrote: |
| PG4ever wrote: |
| I'm withholding judgment until the investigation is completed. Probably the majority of today's coaches could be accused of "verbal abuse." "Unwanted physical contact" could mean grabbing a player's arm or pulling on her jersey to get her attention. It could also mean the alleged kissing on the forehead, which if true, would be inappropriate IMO. "Refusing players' requests for water after running punishing sprints" could mean that players had a water break before the sprints and then Hillsman required them to do the sprints before another water break (appropriate IMO) or it could mean that he never allowed the players to have water during the entire workout (inappropriate IMO). Have an impartial investigation and go from there. If there was a pattern of inappropriate behavior and the university ignored students then both Hillsman and the university should face consequences. |
I agree with all you say here, but for me, you didn't address the most troubling accusation: "One player also said she felt violated when Hillsman wrapped his arms around her from behind and put his hands near her pelvic region, before brushing it off as a joke. Two others witnessed the incident." (I'm quoting from the Athletic article in the OP.) |
If that happened as alleged, it's inexcusable. I'm not trying to excuse Hillsman. If he's a perp, he's a perp. I'm just saying that, depending on context, these incidents could be interpreted in different ways. For example, if the players were on the court and Hillsman was coaching and put his hands on a player's waist area to move them into a particular position, that could be construed as inappropriate behavior. The reporter said that two others witnessed the incident. Hopefully they'll be interviewed as well and can corroborate the allegations and it won't be a he said-she said situation. Today I was watching an old recording of Vic Schaefer's press conference and there are some highlights that show him at one point talking to a player as she comes off the court; he's close to her face and presses his cheek against her (#24 Danberry) face. Here's the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH0k3CpTu28. Somewhere around the 11:32 mark. Is that inappropriate? I don't think Schaefer meant any harm but that might have made that player feel uncomfortable. The case against Hillsman may end up being cut and dry against him but it's not always cut and dry. |
Fair enough, and well said.
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15730
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/29/21 10:51 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Most unfortunate, if even 50% true. Many of those things are subjective (i.e., the Vic or Quentin's 'physical contact', etc.)
I'd bet DeLisha Milton-Jones might have tales to tell. Or not.
GOTTA admit, tho....all those transfers are mighty suspicious.
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11135
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/30/21 10:07 am ::: |
Reply |
|
The reality of coaching girls and women is that male coaches must, like Caesar's wife, be above suspicion.
I'm super cautious. I won't talk to a girl unless someone else can see us. I will not give a girl a ride home unless there's someone else in the car. I don't even have their cell phone numbers, and if I need to get info out to the team, I ask one of the girls to do so on the girls-only group text.
Some people, male and female, are touchy-feely people, with no ill intent, and it's very hard for them to coach in this atmosphere. Perception, right now, can easily lead to action.
_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9604
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/30/21 10:28 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| I was watching a Syracuse game this year and Emily Engstler got the ball with the 1st half ending and hit a half court shot. She was running off the court and Hillmon wanted to congratulate her or something and not sure if he was verbally trying to stop her first and she was trying to avoid him, but he grabbed her by the arm to stop her and didn't let go right away. After seeing the look on her face I wasn't surprised she transferred.
|
|
Tally24
Joined: 14 Feb 2012
Posts: 2709
Location: Baton Rouge
Back to top |
| Posted: 06/30/21 7:01 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ClayK wrote: |
The reality of coaching girls and women is that male coaches must, like Caesar's wife, be above suspicion.
I'm super cautious. I won't talk to a girl unless someone else can see us. I will not give a girl a ride home unless there's someone else in the car. I don't even have their cell phone numbers, and if I need to get info out to the team, I ask one of the girls to do so on the girls-only group text.
Some people, male and female, are touchy-feely people, with no ill intent, and it's very hard for them to coach in this atmosphere. Perception, right now, can easily lead to action. |
RT. I coach my dad's high school during their summer league, and I am above and beyond careful...even to the point of not wanting to show them how to set a screen. I think it's important to just constantly assume that what you may think is a harmless teaching of fundementals, moving a girl to a spot and showing her how to cross her arms over her chest, could be triggering, unwelcome, etc. from the girl. I always, always make sure to have former players help me coach so that they can do those things. You are right, you have to be even more cautious than cautious at every level. This is all to say, Q should know better and I hope that a full-scale investigation is conducted with transparency and thoroughness. |
|
Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 1274
Back to top |
| Posted: 07/01/21 3:08 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ClayK wrote: |
The reality of coaching girls and women is that male coaches must, like Caesar's wife, be above suspicion.
I'm super cautious. I won't talk to a girl unless someone else can see us. I will not give a girl a ride home unless there's someone else in the car. I don't even have their cell phone numbers, and if I need to get info out to the team, I ask one of the girls to do so on the girls-only group text.
Some people, male and female, are touchy-feely people, with no ill intent, and it's very hard for them to coach in this atmosphere. Perception, right now, can easily lead to action. |
Sounds like excellent advice.
|
|
|
|
"
I don't... I don't know if I wanna know what that even means.