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huskiemaniac



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 7:47 am    ::: Quentin Hillsman accused/has resigned/hired in Spain/Not!! Reply Reply with quote

https://theathletic.com/news/syracuse-coach-quentin-hillsman-accused-of-improper-behavior-bullying-sources/MyKYogDUD3t7


"Syracuse women's basketball coach Quentin Hillsman has shown a pattern of inappropriate behavior — including unwanted physical contact as well as threatening and bullying players — that has contributed to the program's high transfer rate in recent years, according to interviews with former players and staff."


https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/special-investigation-whats-causing-mass-exodus-from/id1478448344?i=1000527225446




Last edited by huskiemaniac on 09/09/21 7:29 am; edited 3 times in total
undersized_post



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 10:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Gross. Fire him, if true.

Tiana Mangakahia's response:

"It’s sad when you don’t get what you want (minutes/contracts after college) you accuse others of things to make them look bad. If only I exposed some of my teammates for how they treated me once I was diagnosed with Cancer. Confused "


Stormeo



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:
Gross. Fire him, if true.

Tiana Mangakahia's response:

"It’s sad when you don’t get what you want (minutes/contracts after college) you accuse others of things to make them look bad. If only I exposed some of my teammates for how they treated me once I was diagnosed with Cancer. Confused "


Ayo, what the fuck. Shocked I don't... I don't know if I wanna know what that even means.



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huskiemaniac



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 12:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
Gross. Fire him, if true.

Tiana Mangakahia's response:

"It’s sad when you don’t get what you want (minutes/contracts after college) you accuse others of things to make them look bad. If only I exposed some of my teammates for how they treated me once I was diagnosed with Cancer. Confused "


Ayo, what the fuck. Shocked I don't... I don't know if I wanna know what that even means.


To me it means she and Hillsman have a good relationship and she's trying to help him.


lynxmania



Joined: 18 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: 06/29/21 12:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
Gross. Fire him, if true.

Tiana Mangakahia's response:

"It’s sad when you don’t get what you want (minutes/contracts after college) you accuse others of things to make them look bad. If only I exposed some of my teammates for how they treated me once I was diagnosed with Cancer. Confused "


Ayo, what the fuck. Shocked I don't... I don't know if I wanna know what that even means.


I hope that it isn’t her trying to smear some of her teammates and their experiences. Cuz that would be gross.


PG4ever



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 12:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm withholding judgment until the investigation is completed. Probably the majority of today's coaches could be accused of "verbal abuse." "Unwanted physical contact" could mean grabbing a player's arm or pulling on her jersey to get her attention. It could also mean the alleged kissing on the forehead, which if true, would be inappropriate IMO. "Refusing players' requests for water after running punishing sprints" could mean that players had a water break before the sprints and then Hillsman required them to do the sprints before another water break (appropriate IMO) or it could mean that he never allowed the players to have water during the entire workout (inappropriate IMO). Have an impartial investigation and go from there. If there was a pattern of inappropriate behavior and the university ignored students then both Hillsman and the university should face consequences.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 1:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PG4ever wrote:
I'm withholding judgment until the investigation is completed. Probably the majority of today's coaches could be accused of "verbal abuse." "Unwanted physical contact" could mean grabbing a player's arm or pulling on her jersey to get her attention. It could also mean the alleged kissing on the forehead, which if true, would be inappropriate IMO. "Refusing players' requests for water after running punishing sprints" could mean that players had a water break before the sprints and then Hillsman required them to do the sprints before another water break (appropriate IMO) or it could mean that he never allowed the players to have water during the entire workout (inappropriate IMO). Have an impartial investigation and go from there. If there was a pattern of inappropriate behavior and the university ignored students then both Hillsman and the university should face consequences.


What you said.



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undersized_post



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PG4ever wrote:
I'm withholding judgment until the investigation is completed. Probably the majority of today's coaches could be accused of "verbal abuse." "Unwanted physical contact" could mean grabbing a player's arm or pulling on her jersey to get her attention. It could also mean the alleged kissing on the forehead, which if true, would be inappropriate IMO. "Refusing players' requests for water after running punishing sprints" could mean that players had a water break before the sprints and then Hillsman required them to do the sprints before another water break (appropriate IMO) or it could mean that he never allowed the players to have water during the entire workout (inappropriate IMO). Have an impartial investigation and go from there. If there was a pattern of inappropriate behavior and the university ignored students then both Hillsman and the university should face consequences.


I agree with all you say here, but for me, you didn't address the most troubling accusation: "One player also said she felt violated when Hillsman wrapped his arms around her from behind and put his hands near her pelvic region, before brushing it off as a joke. Two others witnessed the incident." (I'm quoting from the Athletic article in the OP.)

Plus, what do y'all think about hiring the assistant formerly accused of sexual harassment? The assistant was Ronnie Enoch, described here as a longtime friend of Hillsman. So beyond the alleged sexual harrassment, which should already be disqualifying IMO, it's also nepotism.


huskiemaniac



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 2:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe if it were only 1 or 2 players...but based solely on the numbers, I'm inclined to believe the accusations.

When a couple of star ex-players sort of come to his defense, mostly by ragging on the transfers, I'm reminded of rich white guys' reaction to systemic police brutality/murder of blacks..."I've never had a problem with police. If [the victim] had simply complied..."


NoDakSt



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 3:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
Gross. Fire him, if true.

Tiana Mangakahia's response:

"It’s sad when you don’t get what you want (minutes/contracts after college) you accuse others of things to make them look bad. If only I exposed some of my teammates for how they treated me once I was diagnosed with Cancer. Confused "


Ayo, what the fuck. Shocked I don't... I don't know if I wanna know what that even means.



The Post Standard has a story today (behind the paywall) where Allegedly some players in the locker room accused Tiana have milking the cancer diagnosis for attention.

https://www.syracuse.com/orangewomen/2021/06/tiana-mangakahia-some-ex-syracuse-teammates-accused-me-of-milking-cancer-comeback-for-glory.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 3:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Because it's so conceivable that someone can milk any additional benefit out of chemotherapy, bilateral mastectomies, and reconstructive surgery. Sheesh. Some of those teammates apparently objected to her missing 6 am practices while she was undergoing chemo.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 3:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Because it's so conceivable that someone can milk any additional benefit out of chemotherapy, bilateral mastectomies, and reconstructive surgery. Sheesh. Some of those teammates apparently objected to her missing 6 am practices while she was undergoing chemo.


Probably those same teammates making the accusations .



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NoDakSt



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 4:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Because it's so conceivable that someone can milk any additional benefit out of chemotherapy, bilateral mastectomies, and reconstructive surgery. Sheesh. Some of those teammates apparently objected to her missing 6 am practices while she was undergoing chemo.


Probably those same teammates making the accusations .


Which doesn’t necessarily make those accusations less true. There was definitely something messy with Syracuse women’s basketball. A lot of it is culture related In terms of not bringing in the Right Personnel to create successful program. That falls on the Coach. Then there’s some pretty egregious concerns about specific behavior that is very unjustifiable if there be any truth to it.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 4:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NoDakSt wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Because it's so conceivable that someone can milk any additional benefit out of chemotherapy, bilateral mastectomies, and reconstructive surgery. Sheesh. Some of those teammates apparently objected to her missing 6 am practices while she was undergoing chemo.


Probably those same teammates making the accusations .


Which doesn’t necessarily make those accusations less true. There was definitely something messy with Syracuse women’s basketball. A lot of it is culture related In terms of not bringing in the Right Personnel to create successful program. That falls on the Coach. Then there’s some pretty egregious concerns about specific behavior that is very unjustifiable if there be any truth to it.


A certain board has been practically calling for an accusation since the transfers began , now someone has spoke up and were suppose to believe their intent with no substantial evidence besides WOM ? If true FIRE HIM , but it just seems to coincidental for me tbh .



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 5:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I can't read the paywall stories.

Has any player actually stepped forward to file a formal or legal complaint against Hillsman, or are all these froufrou "facts" flowing from a media story dug up from anonymous sources?

Has Hillsman ever been accused of improper behavior before?

How many transfers has Hillsman had per year before this past Covid/easy-transfer year?

I'd like to know the answers to these questions, in addition to awaiting the results of any investigation performed by Syracuse, before acting like a judge, jury or executioner.
FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 5:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

He was accused of inappropriate behavior back in 2011, investigated, and cleared. Read the article to the end.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/SPORTS/usaedition/2011-01-28-colshort28_ST_U.htm


Queenie



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 5:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This has all the earmarks of something that is going to get ugly, nasty, and brutal in a hurry.

FWIW I would not be surprised if there were some substance to at least some of the rumors; there were rumors of him being sleazy in the transfer game back when Syracuse was in the Big East. But I would also not be surprised if he genuinely didn't mean anything by some of the physical contact, because my impression of him is that he has all the self-awareness of a small cashew.



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huskiemaniac



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 6:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
This has all the earmarks of something that is going to get ugly, nasty, and brutal in a hurry.

FWIW I would not be surprised if there were some substance to at least some of the rumors; there were rumors of him being sleazy in the transfer game back when Syracuse was in the Big East. But I would also not be surprised if he genuinely didn't mean anything by some of the physical contact, because my impression of him is that he has all the self-awareness of a small cashew.


Imo, QH is a good recruiter, pedestrian XO coach, lame personality.

Syracuse would do well to part ways and avoid a Duke scenario.




Last edited by huskiemaniac on 06/29/21 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
PG4ever



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 7:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="undersized_post"]
PG4ever wrote:
I'm withholding judgment until the investigation is completed. Probably the majority of today's coaches could be accused of "verbal abuse." "Unwanted physical contact" could mean grabbing a player's arm or pulling on her jersey to get her attention. It could also mean the alleged kissing on the forehead, which if true, would be inappropriate IMO. "Refusing players' requests for water after running punishing sprints" could mean that players had a water break before the sprints and then Hillsman required them to do the sprints before another water break (appropriate IMO) or it could mean that he never allowed the players to have water during the entire workout (inappropriate IMO). Have an impartial investigation and go from there. If there was a pattern of inappropriate behavior and the university ignored students then both Hillsman and the university should face consequences.


[quote] I agree with all you say here, but for me, you didn't address the most troubling accusation: "One player also said she felt violated when Hillsman wrapped his arms around her from behind and put his hands near her pelvic region, before brushing it off as a joke. Two others witnessed the incident." (I'm quoting from the Athletic article in the OP.)[quote]


If that happened as alleged, it's inexcusable. I'm not trying to excuse Hillsman. If he's a perp, he's a perp. I'm just saying that, depending on context, these incidents could be interpreted in different ways. For example, if the players were on the court and Hillsman was coaching and put his hands on a player's waist area to move them into a particular position, that could be construed as inappropriate behavior. The reporter said that two others witnessed the incident. Hopefully they'll be interviewed as well and can corroborate the allegations and it won't be a he said-she said situation. Today I was watching an old recording of Vic Schaefer's press conference and there are some highlights that show him at one point talking to a player as she comes off the court; he's close to her face and presses his cheek against her (#24 Danberry) face. Here's the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH0k3CpTu28. Somewhere around the 11:32 mark. Is that inappropriate? I don't think Schaefer meant any harm but that might have made that player feel uncomfortable. The case against Hillsman may end up being cut and dry against him but it's not always cut and dry.


undersized_post



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 9:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PG4ever wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
PG4ever wrote:
I'm withholding judgment until the investigation is completed. Probably the majority of today's coaches could be accused of "verbal abuse." "Unwanted physical contact" could mean grabbing a player's arm or pulling on her jersey to get her attention. It could also mean the alleged kissing on the forehead, which if true, would be inappropriate IMO. "Refusing players' requests for water after running punishing sprints" could mean that players had a water break before the sprints and then Hillsman required them to do the sprints before another water break (appropriate IMO) or it could mean that he never allowed the players to have water during the entire workout (inappropriate IMO). Have an impartial investigation and go from there. If there was a pattern of inappropriate behavior and the university ignored students then both Hillsman and the university should face consequences.


I agree with all you say here, but for me, you didn't address the most troubling accusation: "One player also said she felt violated when Hillsman wrapped his arms around her from behind and put his hands near her pelvic region, before brushing it off as a joke. Two others witnessed the incident." (I'm quoting from the Athletic article in the OP.)



If that happened as alleged, it's inexcusable. I'm not trying to excuse Hillsman. If he's a perp, he's a perp. I'm just saying that, depending on context, these incidents could be interpreted in different ways. For example, if the players were on the court and Hillsman was coaching and put his hands on a player's waist area to move them into a particular position, that could be construed as inappropriate behavior. The reporter said that two others witnessed the incident. Hopefully they'll be interviewed as well and can corroborate the allegations and it won't be a he said-she said situation. Today I was watching an old recording of Vic Schaefer's press conference and there are some highlights that show him at one point talking to a player as she comes off the court; he's close to her face and presses his cheek against her (#24 Danberry) face. Here's the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH0k3CpTu28. Somewhere around the 11:32 mark. Is that inappropriate? I don't think Schaefer meant any harm but that might have made that player feel uncomfortable. The case against Hillsman may end up being cut and dry against him but it's not always cut and dry.

Fair enough, and well said.


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PostPosted: 06/29/21 10:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Most unfortunate, if even 50% true. Many of those things are subjective (i.e., the Vic or Quentin's 'physical contact', etc.)

I'd bet DeLisha Milton-Jones might have tales to tell. Or not.

GOTTA admit, tho....all those transfers are mighty suspicious.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/30/21 10:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The reality of coaching girls and women is that male coaches must, like Caesar's wife, be above suspicion.

I'm super cautious. I won't talk to a girl unless someone else can see us. I will not give a girl a ride home unless there's someone else in the car. I don't even have their cell phone numbers, and if I need to get info out to the team, I ask one of the girls to do so on the girls-only group text.

Some people, male and female, are touchy-feely people, with no ill intent, and it's very hard for them to coach in this atmosphere. Perception, right now, can easily lead to action.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 06/30/21 10:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was watching a Syracuse game this year and Emily Engstler got the ball with the 1st half ending and hit a half court shot. She was running off the court and Hillmon wanted to congratulate her or something and not sure if he was verbally trying to stop her first and she was trying to avoid him, but he grabbed her by the arm to stop her and didn't let go right away. After seeing the look on her face I wasn't surprised she transferred.


Tally24



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PostPosted: 06/30/21 7:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
The reality of coaching girls and women is that male coaches must, like Caesar's wife, be above suspicion.

I'm super cautious. I won't talk to a girl unless someone else can see us. I will not give a girl a ride home unless there's someone else in the car. I don't even have their cell phone numbers, and if I need to get info out to the team, I ask one of the girls to do so on the girls-only group text.

Some people, male and female, are touchy-feely people, with no ill intent, and it's very hard for them to coach in this atmosphere. Perception, right now, can easily lead to action.


RT. I coach my dad's high school during their summer league, and I am above and beyond careful...even to the point of not wanting to show them how to set a screen. I think it's important to just constantly assume that what you may think is a harmless teaching of fundementals, moving a girl to a spot and showing her how to cross her arms over her chest, could be triggering, unwelcome, etc. from the girl. I always, always make sure to have former players help me coach so that they can do those things. You are right, you have to be even more cautious than cautious at every level. This is all to say, Q should know better and I hope that a full-scale investigation is conducted with transparency and thoroughness.
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PostPosted: 07/01/21 3:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
The reality of coaching girls and women is that male coaches must, like Caesar's wife, be above suspicion.

I'm super cautious. I won't talk to a girl unless someone else can see us. I will not give a girl a ride home unless there's someone else in the car. I don't even have their cell phone numbers, and if I need to get info out to the team, I ask one of the girls to do so on the girls-only group text.

Some people, male and female, are touchy-feely people, with no ill intent, and it's very hard for them to coach in this atmosphere. Perception, right now, can easily lead to action.


Sounds like excellent advice.


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