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Baylor 2021-2022
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ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 05/04/21 7:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NoDakSt wrote:
Egbo, Smith, Bickle.and transfer Jordan Lewis are among those who have at least initially indicated they are in support of this hire. If these players stick around it’s a good nucleus for at least one more year.


If I were those players, I would stay-Collen certainly has the chops to make them WNBA ready.


Stormeo



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PostPosted: 05/04/21 10:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NoDakSt wrote:
Egbo, Smith, Bickle, and transfer Jordan Lewis are among those who have at least initially indicated they are in support of this hire. If these players stick around it’s a good nucleus for at least one more year.


It's interesting as these three at least were teammates with Kalani Brown during Brown's senior season. Brown of course has been on the Atlanta Dream since early 2020, so was coached by Collen last year. I'm sure they've reached out to her for her thoughts on/potential approval of Collen.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 05/04/21 2:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If players are interested in a WNBA career -- and that's the group Baylor recruits from -- this makes sense. If Collen and her staff can recruit, she should be fine there. Xs and Os don't mean much if you've got the soldiers ...



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RavenDog



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PostPosted: 05/06/21 1:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The question becomes, "Can she teach?"

Top HS players who are focused on the WNBA go to a basketball program
where they can learn to become a better player and become more skilled and knowledgable of the game. I don't think these type of players chose to attend or transferred into Baylor because of the school. They went to Baylor because of Kim Mulkey.

Teaching, coaching recruiting etc. etc. is long hours of hard work and responsibility and IMO is considerable more involved and stressful than coaching at the professional level. Professional players come to the league with education and training and are expected to be pretty much ready and coachable at the pro level.

Going backwards is always hard to do for many reasons which I won't bore you with but add on taking over from a legend and it's quite a challenge.

I'm guessing it will take a few years to cool down due to the already created and currently thriving pipeline of players, but Baylor will no longer be the dominant basketball program it once was unless Cullen can produce on her own and bring home the bacon.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 05/06/21 2:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sadly, top HS players usually think they're already great and don't need to improve.

Fundamentals are not a strong point of elite young players, male or female, and most don't take them seriously until absolutely forced to -- and sometimes not even then.

That said, Collen can speak from direct experience to those elite players about what they need to do to succeed in the WNBA. More of it is mental than physical, but either way, the player has to be willing to listen.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 05/06/21 3:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
That said, Collen can speak from direct experience to those elite players about what they need to do to succeed in the WNBA. More of it is mental than physical, but either way, the player has to be willing to listen.

I've thought that, too; having coached in a pro setting ought to help Collen. PLAYING as a pro should help, too. Dawn S. is a good example. Maybe even Adia. And then, I remember: Tina T., Steph W., Lindsay W., Sheryl S., Cynthia C., etc. Shocked There are so MANY factors in the equation, and pro experience seems to be one of the lesser ones.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 05/06/21 4:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
If players are interested in a WNBA career -- and that's the group Baylor recruits from -- this makes sense. If Collen and her staff can recruit, she should be fine there. Xs and Os don't mean much if you've got the soldiers ...


That's fine to say, but what are the examples of WNBA coaches who have then been successful college coaches? As a Purdue grad, Peck and White come quickly to mind, and neither were able to even come close to leveraging that WNBA knowledge into college success. Susie McConnell was fired from Pittsburgh. Van Chancellor was OK at LSU, but steadily declined as Chatman's players graduated. Michael and Cynthia Cooper combined to make one NCAA tournament in 8 years at USC.


RavenDog



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PostPosted: 05/08/21 8:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[b]
ClayK wrote:
Sadly, top HS players usually think they're already great and don't need to improve.[/b]

Disagree, IMO Today, this is just an old sage/excuse of maybe older/unsuccessful coaches and they really don't apply significantly with today's top prospects. No longer do/can top prospects take needed improvements lightly or for granted. Competition now is vastly superior for aspiring players in all sports than they were a decade or more ago. Top players today enjoy access to advice from top coaches players through USA, MAMBA, college and professional coaches and players and most take full advantage of it. With the advent of electronics, phones, computers and the internet, advice and information is readily and abundantly available.

[b]Fundamentals are not a strong point of elite young players, male or female, and most don't take them seriously until absolutely forced to -- and sometimes not even then.[/b]

Disagree, today's top prospects know and realize to compete at the top levels they need to improve and need a good college coach and other advisers. I don't consider these top players apathetic, too arrogant or ignorant to not be aware of their needs for future. Just go down the list of the top WNBA Draft selections in the last five or so years and the vast majority were not blind to their needs and opportunities for education and training.. Again, the top prospects didn't choose Baylor, Connecticut, South Carolina etc. for their academics etc. They chose these schools because of Mulkey, Auriemma, and Staley their basketball programs.

That said, Collen can speak from direct experience to those elite players about what they need to do to succeed in the WNBA. More of it is mental than physical, but either way, the player has to be willing to listen.


Top players can get this information quite easily from their USA coaches, college coaches and they all have access to professional coaches and players. There are always a few non-listeners but the vast majority are usually well schooled and understanding of their needs. WNBA advice is everywhere and easily obtained from ex-players, ex-coaches, etc. In fact, it's probably harder not to get it. Ex-players and coaches are eager to help prospects and enjoy doing so. Cullen needs to provide a lot more to the basketball program than direct WNBA experience to be successful.

Times have changed and coaches excuses for their inabilities or non-successes with player performance don't carry the same weight they once did. Top players today are much more aware of and better schooled/educated by their pre-college coaches and other basketball advisers. Top prospects today keep in touch with each other, coaches and other intelligent basketball sources. Many top prospects today have a complete entourage of coaches, advisers and supporters before and after entering a college program.

JMO. And I do respect your opinions.




Last edited by RavenDog on 05/08/21 10:39 am; edited 4 times in total
ClayK



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PostPosted: 05/08/21 10:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That's a valid point, as there are a lot of people to talk to ...

But there is an advantage to having been a head coach because Nikki can say to a recruit "This what WNBA coaches look for. This is how a coach thinks about players. And the coach is the one who sets the roster and allocates minutes."

I'm not claiming that having coached in the WNBA is a net positive or negative for college coaching, only that Collen's recruiting pitch will be able to draw on her experience -- and it's all about recruiting.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 05/08/21 4:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Purely instinct but I think Collen will turn out to be a good hire.


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 05/09/21 12:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
That's a valid point, as there are a lot of people to talk to ...

But there is an advantage to having been a head coach because Nikki can say to a recruit "This what WNBA coaches look for. This is how a coach thinks about players. And the coach is the one who sets the roster and allocates minutes."

I'm not claiming that having coached in the WNBA is a net positive or negative for college coaching, only that Collen's recruiting pitch will be able to draw on her experience -- and it's all about recruiting.


Again, there is no evidence at all that this translates. In fact, there is a lot of evidence the other way.


okstateguy



Joined: 18 Feb 2021
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PostPosted: 05/09/21 1:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
That's a valid point, as there are a lot of people to talk to ...

But there is an advantage to having been a head coach because Nikki can say to a recruit "This what WNBA coaches look for. This is how a coach thinks about players. And the coach is the one who sets the roster and allocates minutes."

I'm not claiming that having coached in the WNBA is a net positive or negative for college coaching, only that Collen's recruiting pitch will be able to draw on her experience -- and it's all about recruiting.


The most accurate comparison to Collen would be Stephanie White. Both had 1 strong WNBA season led by a future HOFer. Both struggled outside of the year. White won a WNBA Championship. Looking at White's career, I don't see Collen getting too much of a boost because of her former employment. Baylor has a much fuller cupboard than Vandy did, but she's gotta make sure those players are still there come Fall.



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lynxmania



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PostPosted: 05/09/21 2:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

okstateguy wrote:
ClayK wrote:
That's a valid point, as there are a lot of people to talk to ...

But there is an advantage to having been a head coach because Nikki can say to a recruit "This what WNBA coaches look for. This is how a coach thinks about players. And the coach is the one who sets the roster and allocates minutes."

I'm not claiming that having coached in the WNBA is a net positive or negative for college coaching, only that Collen's recruiting pitch will be able to draw on her experience -- and it's all about recruiting.


The most accurate comparison to Collen would be Stephanie White. Both had 1 strong WNBA season led by a future HOFer. Both struggled outside of the year. White won a WNBA Championship. Looking at White's career, I don't see Collen getting too much of a boost because of her former employment. Baylor has a much fuller cupboard than Vandy did, but she's gotta make sure those players are still there come Fall.

Plus continue to recruit to the level that Mulkey did in the future.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 05/09/21 6:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't see Stephanie White as an avatar for Nicki Collen just because both spent a fraction of their lives as WNBA head coaches.

Prior to Vandy, White had zero experience as a college coach, a job in which the first three qualifications are recruiting, recruiting and recruiting. I don't believe White's spouse, Michelle Fletcher, is a basketball person.

Nicki Collen, in great contrast, was an assistant coach for 15 years at five good D1 colleges and is married to a guy who has been a very successful assistant and head coach for 33 years at seven good schools. The Collen duo has a ton of college recruiting experience in addition to training under numerous college coaches.
okstateguy



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PostPosted: 05/09/21 9:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stephanie White brought:

Carolyn Peck: Peck's two best post-season runs were both better than Tom Collen's best.

Joy Cheek: Who, if memory serves correct, came to Vanderbilt being heralded as a great recruiter during her stints at Duke and Ohio State.


Nikki Collen(so far) has brought:

Tom Collen: an almost 70 year old man who's peak came early in his head coaching career with a Sweet 16 run, and missed the tournament more than he made. Also, has he coached in college since he was dismissed from Arkansas?


Are they identical situations? Not by a long shot. But there's enough similarities for me to believe it's the closest plausible thing we've seen to compare. A big indicator to me at this point is how Collen completes her staff. If she hits that out of the park, given the talent level she's starting with, it will be extremely hard to mess up.



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NoDakSt



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PostPosted: 05/13/21 5:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maryam Dauda Has been granted her release from her LOI with Baylor. And Mike Neighbors Is tweeting his little piggy emoji. Suspect she might be staying home for a collegiate career.

She was Baylor’s only freshman coming into the program and after Egbo, Smith and Bickle, the LadyBears currently have no interior players.



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okstateguy



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PostPosted: 05/15/21 8:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

With Moon Ursin grad-transferring, Dauda flipping to Arkansas, and Gusters following Mulkey:

a. What are the chances all of Smith, Egbo, and Lewis stay?

b. Are there any big names currently in the portal Baylor might be able to sway?

c. Is there now a significant enough of a crack to consider the Big 12 officially up for grabs next year?



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undersized_post



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PostPosted: 05/15/21 10:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

okstateguy wrote:
With Moon Ursin grad-transferring, Dauda flipping to Arkansas, and Gusters following Mulkey:

a. What are the chances all of Smith, Egbo, and Lewis stay?

b. Are there any big names currently in the portal Baylor might be able to sway?

c. Is there now a significant enough of a crack to consider the Big 12 officially up for grabs next year?


I can't speak to your first two questions but I'd definitely say the Big 12 is up for grabs. Texas is only going to get better in the longterm, and ISU already beat Baylor twice over the last two seasons. It's more wide open than it ever has been IMO. I'm probably sleeping on some other programs as well but I admittedly don't watch the Big 12 as much.


okstateguy



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PostPosted: 05/15/21 11:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:
okstateguy wrote:
With Moon Ursin grad-transferring, Dauda flipping to Arkansas, and Gusters following Mulkey:

a. What are the chances all of Smith, Egbo, and Lewis stay?

b. Are there any big names currently in the portal Baylor might be able to sway?

c. Is there now a significant enough of a crack to consider the Big 12 officially up for grabs next year?


I can't speak to your first two questions but I'd definitely say the Big 12 is up for grabs. Texas is only going to get better in the longterm, and ISU already beat Baylor twice over the last two seasons. It's more wide open than it ever has been IMO. I'm probably sleeping on some other programs as well but I admittedly don't watch the Big 12 as much.


I truly think West Virginia could win the Big 12 next year. I currently don't see Baylor sliding past 3rd, but there are a few things that could affect that:

-If OU gains a decent inside threat, and improves on the boards
-If Collins slides into the 4 slot at OSU and improves her shooting
-If ISU can improve just enough defensively to make up for lack of size

ISU is the biggest threat to knock them out of the top 3, but my Cowgirls might pull it off with more consistent outside shooting. OU is just hard to figure out until we see them in action in the new system. But they could also very well push Texas out just as easy this year. I'm excited to see it play out, even if it'll be weird without Kim and Sherri on the sidelines.



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undersized_post



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PostPosted: 05/15/21 11:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Agree with you that Baylor dropping out of the top 3 would be a shock. Too much talent and experience (at least among the core) for that to happen. Nothings a done deal though.

I'm interested to see how 6'3'' center Beatriz Jordao will fit in at ISU (just transferred from South Florida). All they will really need to do is rebound and defend.

Showing my Iowa bias here, but I'm rooting for Jennie Baranczyk to succeed at OU.

I'm hoping to watch a few more WVU and OSU games this year.


awhom111



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PostPosted: 05/15/21 11:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Does anybody have any idea of what year Dauda was born? Nigeria rarely has youth national teams so there is no convenient FIBA page. I am always fascinated by high school players who could conceivably bypass college and go to the WNBA instead.
okstateguy



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PostPosted: 06/06/21 9:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

With the pickup of Asberry, Collen looks to be beginning her reshape of the roster. Up to 8 so far, but a lot of holes that definitely need urgent attention. Interesting to see what type of Wing players they bring in.

Guards:
Ja'Mee Asberry- 5'5"
Sarah Andrews- 5'6"
Jordan Lewis- 5"7"
Jaden Owens- 5"8"
Kamaria McDaniel- 5"10"

Posts:
Caitlin Bickle- 6'0"
Nalyssa Smith-6"2"
Queenie Egbo- 6"3"



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 09/03/21 10:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/darbyjobrown/status/1433920340506386435?s=20

Quote:
Just heard from a #Baylor spokesperson… the women’s basketball team is no longer going by the “Lady” Bears


Lmao so basically, Kim Mulkey is gone gone. Laughing



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willtalk



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PostPosted: 09/13/21 12:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
https://twitter.com/darbyjobrown/status/1433920340506386435?s=20

Quote:
Just heard from a #Baylor spokesperson… the women’s basketball team is no longer going by the “Lady” Bears


Lmao so basically, Kim Mulkey is gone gone. Laughing
Does that mean that they will begin recruiing men and talking them into passing as transgendera athetes? Rolling Eyes



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Tally24



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PostPosted: 09/13/21 3:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

willtalk wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
https://twitter.com/darbyjobrown/status/1433920340506386435?s=20

Quote:
Just heard from a #Baylor spokesperson… the women’s basketball team is no longer going by the “Lady” Bears


Lmao so basically, Kim Mulkey is gone gone. Laughing
Does that mean that they will begin recruiing men and talking them into passing as transgendera athetes? Rolling Eyes


Sorry, I can’t hear you over the sound of sliding all over that huge slippery slope.
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