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2022 WNBA Mock Draft
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Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 06/08/21 12:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So long as users can’t create their own mock drafts on Lines like we could back when the site was Draftsite, the mock draft process is substantially less fun. There’s zero fan engagement.



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undersized_post



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PostPosted: 06/08/21 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Can Naz Hillmon play SF? Shocked


toad455



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PostPosted: 06/08/21 12:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
So long as users can’t create their own mock drafts on Lines like we could back when the site was Draftsite, the mock draft process is substantially less fun. There’s zero fan engagement.


I agree. It's a shame they didn't include that when they bought Draftsite. I'm hanging on to doing it for now, but not sure if it'll be for much longer.



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PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 06/08/21 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:
Can Naz Hillmon play SF? Shocked


Definitely not.


Stormeo



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PostPosted: 06/08/21 2:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That said, the Lines mock is pretty good, other than Hillmon being listed as a SF rather than a PF or even a C as those above have said. For the Storm, though we very well might take a guard, I’d be very surprised if we went with someone like Hayes, given her... family’s reputation (and possibly hers as well). She seems like she wouldn’t fit into our team culture. Embarassed



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/08/21 2:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This does not look a good draft. Some nice players, but there's no superstar here, no immediate difference-maker, no must-see player.

The steady drain of talent from basketball to volleyball is taking its toll.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 06/08/21 3:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
This does not look a good draft. Some nice players, but there's no superstar here, no immediate difference-maker, no must-see player.

The steady drain of talent from basketball to volleyball is taking its toll.


Clay beats his drum!


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: 06/08/21 3:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
ClayK wrote:
This does not look a good draft. Some nice players, but there's no superstar here, no immediate difference-maker, no must-see player.

The steady drain of talent from basketball to volleyball is taking its toll.


Clay beats his drum!


This was decided 12 months ago though Laughing Laughing Laughing



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undersized_post



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PostPosted: 06/08/21 3:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
This does not look a good draft. Some nice players, but there's no superstar here, no immediate difference-maker, no must-see player.

The steady drain of talent from basketball to volleyball is taking its toll.


Honest question.. how often do you see these types of players straight out of college anyway?

Am I naive to think Rhyne Howard, NaLyssa Smith, and Shakira Austin will contribute a lot right away?


Milks26



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PostPosted: 06/08/21 3:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
This does not look a good draft. Some nice players, but there's no superstar here, no immediate difference-maker, no must-see player.

The steady drain of talent from basketball to volleyball is taking its toll.


No, this is a good class. 2021 was the shi**y one!



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PostPosted: 06/08/21 3:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:
ClayK wrote:
This does not look a good draft. Some nice players, but there's no superstar here, no immediate difference-maker, no must-see player.

The steady drain of talent from basketball to volleyball is taking its toll.


Honest question.. how often do you see these types of players straight out of college anyway?

Am I naive to think Rhyne Howard, NaLyssa Smith, and Shakira Austin will contribute a lot right away?


Nope not Naive at all , Ask yourself if either of those 3 would have been in this draft would they NOT have been chosen #1 regardless of team need ? Cool Cool



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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/08/21 4:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
This does not look a good draft. Some nice players, but there's no superstar here, no immediate difference-maker, no must-see player.


That's more about the maturity of the league than anything else. You don't see NBA rookies making huge immediate impacts either. It's been over 20 years since a rookie made an All NBA team.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/09/21 9:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I like NaLyssa Smith -- I think she'll be a good player. Rhyne Howard reminds of Victoria Vivians, who I thought would be good but isn't (so far).

Austin could be good as well.

But do you see a superstar in that trio?

(One reason I beat my drum about volleyball is that no one who could do anything about it seems to notice or care. The toxic culture of youth basketball is killing women's basketball, but the response is a shrug ...)



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/09/21 9:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

All due respect, you probably weren't too excited a couple of years ago either about players that weren't even going to go in the lottery. Like Arike Ogunbowale and Napheesa Collier. These players emerge. They don't always have to be dead cert superstars coming out of school.



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PostPosted: 06/09/21 10:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I like NaLyssa Smith -- I think she'll be a good player. Rhyne Howard reminds of Victoria Vivians, who I thought would be good but isn't (so far).

Austin could be good as well.

But do you see a superstar in that trio?

(One reason I beat my drum about volleyball is that no one who could do anything about it seems to notice or care. The toxic culture of youth basketball is killing women's basketball, but the response is a shrug ...)



Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Sorry , but this part ruined this entire post for me .



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 06/09/21 10:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I like NaLyssa Smith -- I think she'll be a good player. Rhyne Howard reminds of Victoria Vivians, who I thought would be good but isn't (so far).


I think that is pretty unfair toward Vivians. She had a quite good rookie season, especially for a player drafted where she was. Then she missed almost all of her 2nd and 3rd seasons with injury. She is basically playing for the first time in two years, and is coming off of multiple major knee injuries.


Milks26



Joined: 25 Mar 2021
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PostPosted: 06/09/21 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I like NaLyssa Smith -- I think she'll be a good player. Rhyne Howard reminds of Victoria Vivians, who I thought would be good but isn't (so far).


I think that is pretty unfair toward Vivians. She had a quite good rookie season, especially for a player drafted where she was. Then she missed almost all of her 2nd and 3rd seasons with injury. She is basically playing for the first time in two years, and is coming off of multiple major knee injuries.


Hell yeah, that's unfair of Vivians. She can play. But, as you said injuries have held her back. Season is early give her time.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/09/21 10:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I like NaLyssa Smith -- I think she'll be a good player. Rhyne Howard reminds of Victoria Vivians, who I thought would be good but isn't (so far).


I think that is pretty unfair toward Vivians. She had a quite good rookie season, especially for a player drafted where she was. Then she missed almost all of her 2nd and 3rd seasons with injury. She is basically playing for the first time in two years, and is coming off of multiple major knee injuries.


I still have hopes for Vivians, for reasons you mention.

Napheesa Collier is a very good player, no question. I'm not as sold on Arike, but her knack for the big moment is great for the league. But the first four chosen were Jackie Young, Asia Durr, Teaira McCowan and Katie Lou Samuelson.

Of those six, three years on, we have some pretty good players, but it doesn't seem to me that the 2019 draft has a marquee player at this point, though there's obviously still time. Collier is the best so far, but how many casual women's basketball fans know her name or who she plays for?



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 06/09/21 10:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I like NaLyssa Smith -- I think she'll be a good player. Rhyne Howard reminds of Victoria Vivians, who I thought would be good but isn't (so far).


I think that is pretty unfair toward Vivians. She had a quite good rookie season, especially for a player drafted where she was. Then she missed almost all of her 2nd and 3rd seasons with injury. She is basically playing for the first time in two years, and is coming off of multiple major knee injuries.


I still have hopes for Vivians, for reasons you mention.

Napheesa Collier is a very good player, no question. I'm not as sold on Arike, but her knack for the big moment is great for the league. But the first four chosen were Jackie Young, Asia Durr, Teaira McCowan and Katie Lou Samuelson.

Of those six, three years on, we have some pretty good players, but it doesn't seem to me that the 2019 draft has a marquee player at this point, though there's obviously still time. Collier is the best so far, but how many casual women's basketball fans know her name or who she plays for?


I feel like you are really moving goalposts and letting some personal biases cloud whatever argument you are making.

You say 2019 has no marquee player - Last year, Ogunbowale led the whole league in scoring. Here's a list of the other players who have done that. Any others you want to suggest don't count as marquee players?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Women%27s_National_Basketball_Association_season_scoring_leaders

Collier doesn't count because you have decided some category of fan apparently doesn't know who she is. That's a very different question than how good a player is or how good a draft is, but you know that already.

And finally, why just focus on 2019? Plenty of drafts have had no players as good as the top players in 2019. 2003 was a bad draft - did that mean that talent was gone? 2007 was a bad draft - did that mean that there was no more talent in girls basketball?

It's clear you have an agenda and one argument about volleyball. At this point, it's also clear everything looks like a nail when you just have the one hammer.


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 06/09/21 11:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As pilight pointed out in the original discussion, there are plenty of good athletes to go around to fill all sports. The question is what makes a star basketball player? Yes talent is important, but ultimately the factor that separates greatness from mediocrity is desire. Does a player love the game? Are they supremely competitive? Are they willing to work endlessly? Almost by definition, someone who is easily diverted from basketball because her BFF is playing volleyball or her parents push her in another direction is someone who is not going to cut it. And in that article I posted last time, the kids who chose volleyball were giving reasons like they had an aversion to physical contact or they thought it was cool that volleyball allowed them to wear ribbons in their hair. I was only half-kidding when I referred to them as dainty germophobes. I think it’s highly unlikely that those kinds of personalities will make it into the final 144 of the WNBA, much less be stars. On the other hand, will the loss of large numbers of these girls devastate high school basketball? Yes, when you have thousands (millions?) of roster spots to fill it’s definitely going to hurt. Similarly, but to a lesser extent, it could significantly hurt college programs --especially at the lower levels. But will this have a ripple effect on the WNBA? I seriously doubt it.

Let’s look at some examples of top prospects who failed in the WNBA. Jennifer Hamson is someone who was both a great college basketball player and a great volleyball player. In the end, she was nothing more than marginal in the WNBA. But it isn’t only about volleyball being a distraction. Any lack of commitment can hurt. So, let’s look at three other examples: Imani McGee-Stafford, Toni Young, and Kalani Brown. If you read her interviews, IMS always appeared more interested in reading, writing, and poetry slams than basketball. I don’t think people were that surprised when she retired early. Toni Young was still trying out for the Olympics as a high jumper even after she’d been exclusively playing basketball in college. That seemed to be her real dream accomplishment. Young also complained whenever she was living outside of Oklahoma. Anyone who can’t adjust to being away from home for long periods is ill-suited for a life in pro basketball. Kalani Brown probably had every advantage a basketball player could have. Her father was a successful NBA player, so she probably got all the best coaching, access to training facilities, gear, etc. Brown also played for a first class college program at Baylor, winning a national championship along the way. She was a 6-7 highly touted, high profile prospect. And yet, Kalani didn’t succeed -- largely because she wasn’t motivated enough to stay in shape. She’s still young enough for a comeback, but Brown will need to show more dedication. All of these players would have been a great loss to their high school and college programs had they not participated in basketball. However, they were not a great loss to the WNBA.



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PostPosted: 06/09/21 11:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The other thing that separates stars from the rest, to be perfectly honest, is just who's left at the top. If the top 10 players in the league today had never picked up a basketball in their lives, the next ten below them would be bigger stars. I continue to feel like we as fans/viewers would recalibrate what we see as 'good' or 'great' fairly easily if presented with a slightly different or even 'lesser' product (we could argue over whether it actually would be any lesser). We'll find and elevate stars, especially if they became the key players on top teams because other top players weren't there to elevate other teams.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 06/09/21 1:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think there’s also an equilibrium effect. If the league expanded and you had a slight dilution in the offensive talent, you would also have a slight dilution in defensive talent. They would offset each other so that scoring would remain more or less the same. As fans, we wouldn’t notice a conspicuous drop in the overall level of performance. Yes, the expansion teams would probably be bad, but someone always has to be at the bottom. Even when the NHL only had 6 teams, two were considered bad.



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PostPosted: 06/09/21 2:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Absolutely. You might have fewer quality scorers who can finish through contact at the rim, but you'd also have fewer elite rim protectors. Or defenses might rotate that split-second slower, so shooters would be very slightly more open, and therefore keep percentages similar. Even if they didn't, how much are 99% of spectators going to care if 31% from three is 'good' rather than 35%?

Of course, everything is increments. On some level, if your product decreases in quality, the interest is likely to decrease as well. I just don't think the impending doom is anything like as serious or impending as ClayK often seems to.

Hey, hang on, am I the optimist in a scenario for once? What's going on?



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Skyfan22



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PostPosted: 06/09/21 2:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
ClayK wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I like NaLyssa Smith -- I think she'll be a good player. Rhyne Howard reminds of Victoria Vivians, who I thought would be good but isn't (so far).


I think that is pretty unfair toward Vivians. She had a quite good rookie season, especially for a player drafted where she was. Then she missed almost all of her 2nd and 3rd seasons with injury. She is basically playing for the first time in two years, and is coming off of multiple major knee injuries.


I still have hopes for Vivians, for reasons you mention.

Napheesa Collier is a very good player, no question. I'm not as sold on Arike, but her knack for the big moment is great for the league. But the first four chosen were Jackie Young, Asia Durr, Teaira McCowan and Katie Lou Samuelson.

Of those six, three years on, we have some pretty good players, but it doesn't seem to me that the 2019 draft has a marquee player at this point, though there's obviously still time. Collier is the best so far, but how many casual women's basketball fans know her name or who she plays for?


I feel like you are really moving goalposts and letting some personal biases cloud whatever argument you are making.

You say 2019 has no marquee player - Last year, Ogunbowale led the whole league in scoring. Here's a list of the other players who have done that. Any others you want to suggest don't count as marquee players?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Women%27s_National_Basketball_Association_season_scoring_leaders

Collier doesn't count because you have decided some category of fan apparently doesn't know who she is. That's a very different question than how good a player is or how good a draft is, but you know that already.

And finally, why just focus on 2019? Plenty of drafts have had no players as good as the top players in 2019. 2003 was a bad draft - did that mean that talent was gone? 2007 was a bad draft - did that mean that there was no more talent in girls basketball?

It's clear you have an agenda and one argument about volleyball. At this point, it's also clear everything looks like a nail when you just have the one hammer.


Thanks for the immediate response to Clay’s post. Total homer but was getting all worked up. Would like to add that Arike and Mabrey are the clear leaders of a team that just took down established star laden teams on the road in Seattle and Phoenix. Additionally if you’re looking for name recognition I do believe that Arike is pretty well known. Many Dallas friends and acquaintances that know my family’s penchant ask without solicitation about the Wings and call out Arike. Granted, we hang with a lot of basketball parents, but they are all parents of boys playing ball. It’s frustrating that year 3 Arike is still getting slighted by alleged basketball enthusiasts


ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/09/21 5:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You know, I certainly could be wrong. I have been wrong many times before, and will be again.

To me, there is a difference between a very good player and a star. Arike Ogumbowale is a very good player; so is Napheesa Collier.

Elena Delle Donne is much closer to being a star than either of them. Brittney Griner is a star, even though she may not be as good as Ogunbowale or Collier.

Again, I could be wrong on this.

A star transcends the sport, in a way, and has an identity that lots of people can connect with, even those not intimately involved with the sport.

Maya Moore was a star. Diana Taurasi is a star.

Kelsey Plum is not a star. Odyssey Sims is not a star. Kayla McBride is not a star.

Sabrina Ionescu is a star, deserved or not, but if she doesn't put up elite numbers, she won't be for long.

A'ja Wilson might be a star. Breanna Stewart should be a star, and maybe she is. Not sure.

I repeat, I could be wrong.

In 2013-14, the National Federation of High Schools participation:

Girls' basketball: 433,344
Volleyball: 429,634

2018-19:

Girls' basketball: 399,067
Volleyball: 452,808

1997-98

Girls' basketball: 454,000
Volleyball: 373,219

So why am I apparently the only one who finds this concerning?

Or maybe all those girls who are now choosing volleyball are losers, and only the good ones still play basketball?



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