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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 03/19/21 9:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yea to these companies for seeing a need, filling it and getting great pub!!!! Dick's, Orangetheory and Tonal are mentioned.

Come on NCAA. Don't hook your mulligan into the water too!
Quote:
The equipment hasn't been sent yet, Christian said, because the NCAA first needs to approve the move, but truckloads of equipment are ready to be sent out.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaw/2021/03/19/companies-send-equipment-womens-ncaa-tournament/4773339001/



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 03/19/21 10:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here is an article from the Washington Post by Sally Jenkins:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/03/19/ncaa-womens-basketball-unequal/


Marquette Fan



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PostPosted: 03/20/21 8:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A letter from Dawn Staley:

https://twitter.com/dawnstaley/status/1373064039211876358

And Staley brought up the NCAA March Madness Twitter account that is for Men's Basketball. I didn't care for the tweet they had on International Women's Day:

https://twitter.com/marchmadness/status/1369050753072062464

Why not just talk about Women's Sports on International Women's Day - why does men's basketball need to be brought into it?


undersized_post



Joined: 01 Mar 2021
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PostPosted: 03/20/21 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/sportsiren/status/1373282930026496001?s=21

Additional weights have been brought in.

Re: Marquette fan... ya wow, I didn’t see that tweet before but I don’t like it either.


pilight



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PostPosted: 03/20/21 10:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder if these companies would have been so generous with donations had there not been a media outrage.

A cynical person with more belief in the NCAA's deviousness than I have might think this was done intentionally to get stuff free that they otherwise would have had to pay for.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 03/20/21 11:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
Here is an article from the Washington Post by Sally Jenkins:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/03/19/ncaa-womens-basketball-unequal/


fabulous article. I can personally attest to a lot of the history part. It made me laugh...and cry.


Marquette Fan



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PostPosted: 03/20/21 12:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Muffet McGraw's thoughts - https://twitter.com/MuffetMcGraw/status/1373321930485473287


Marquette Fan



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PostPosted: 03/20/21 12:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:

Re: Marquette fan... ya wow, I didn’t see that tweet before but I don’t like it either.


And then there was Burger King's tweet on International Women's Day (not sports releated but still pretty bad):

They tweeted out - “Women belong in the kitchen.”

More context behind it -

https://theticker.org/3352/opinions/burger-kings-absurd-national-womens-day-tweet-crossed-the-line/


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 03/20/21 1:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hoopsmom wrote:
purduefanatic wrote:
I would think that teams would all agree that if something needed to be trimmed due to space, a weight room would be the first to go over practice courts, meeting space, team meal space, social distancing space, etc.

Lifting weights isn't part of the "NCAA Tournament experience" so I'm not sure what point Coach Taylor is trying to make there. I highly doubt any of the teams that lose prior to the Sweet 16 are going to be upset or feel they were slighted because they didn't have a huge weight lifting area. Again, there isn't really a ton of lifting that is going to go on right now leading into the first & second round games. Now, with a few days between the end of the second round and the beginning of the Sweet 16, that is a time where a team would get a good lift in, just like what we would do upon return to campus before departing for the Sweet 16.


In a typical year, the teams are not brought to one site 6 days before they play. They get there 2 days before. So yes, they are missing out on some major lift time. I just hope we don’t see ACL‘s and other devastating injuries that often occur when players don’t get the strength and weight bearing exercise that they need to maintain their fitness prior to a game.


Can you cite historical or comparative longitudinal medical studies to support this fear?

You know, there was a very long period of historical time when basketball players did no weight lifting at all -- not in high school, not in college -- other than the weight bearing and aerobic bodily exercise that flows naturally from the constant running, cutting and jumping in the many hours of basketball practice and play that players engage in almost every day. I wonder if there are any credible studies that show there were more "ACL's and other devastating injuries" in those days. I never heard of an ACL injury to a famous (or unfamous) basketball player until Bernard King in 1985, which was in the new weight lifting era.

I think it's ambiguous as to whether basketball players benefit from, or are harmed by, heavy barbell sessions with removable weights, benches, racks and spotters. Many believe lightweight exercises with dumbbells, core exercises, calisthenics such as lunges and planks, balance exercises, stretches, and resistance training regimens with elastic bands and plyometrics are much safer and just as effective. There is no reason why a team can't bring this kind of simple equipment to a tournament on their own.

Even if a team did no weight training for a few days before a tournament game, a season's worth of exercise training fitness wouldn't suddenly disappear. Heavy weight training even for sport lifters and body builders is not recommended for every day, and most athletes take various training breaks during sport seasons.

As an aside, there is even ambiguity about the benefits of stretching. I have heard Geno Auriemma say that he never had an ACL tear on his teams until after they started stretching exercises sometime in the '90's. That's not scientific proof of anything, but it's something that ought to be researched better.

My personal experience with 40 years of weight lifting is that, assuming you're not doing it just to build showy muscles as many macho guys are, you are more likely to be injured by unbalanced "artificial" muscle development caused by heavy weight lifting than by the natural muscle training that flows from the practice of the given sport at issue plus some light weight training and calisthenics.
undersized_post



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PostPosted: 03/20/21 2:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Hoopsmom wrote:
purduefanatic wrote:
I would think that teams would all agree that if something needed to be trimmed due to space, a weight room would be the first to go over practice courts, meeting space, team meal space, social distancing space, etc.

Lifting weights isn't part of the "NCAA Tournament experience" so I'm not sure what point Coach Taylor is trying to make there. I highly doubt any of the teams that lose prior to the Sweet 16 are going to be upset or feel they were slighted because they didn't have a huge weight lifting area. Again, there isn't really a ton of lifting that is going to go on right now leading into the first & second round games. Now, with a few days between the end of the second round and the beginning of the Sweet 16, that is a time where a team would get a good lift in, just like what we would do upon return to campus before departing for the Sweet 16.


In a typical year, the teams are not brought to one site 6 days before they play. They get there 2 days before. So yes, they are missing out on some major lift time. I just hope we don’t see ACL‘s and other devastating injuries that often occur when players don’t get the strength and weight bearing exercise that they need to maintain their fitness prior to a game.


Can you cite historical or comparative longitudinal medical studies to support this fear?

You know, there was a very long period of historical time when basketball players did no weight lifting at all -- not in high school, not in college -- other than the weight bearing and aerobic bodily exercise that flows naturally from the constant running, cutting and jumping in the many hours of basketball practice and play that players engage in almost every day. I wonder if there are any credible studies that show there were more "ACL's and other devastating injuries" in those days. I never heard of an ACL injury to a famous (or unfamous) basketball player until Bernard King in 1985, which was in the new weight lifting era.

I think it's ambiguous as to whether basketball players benefit from, or are harmed by, heavy barbell sessions with removable weights, benches, racks and spotters. Many believe lightweight exercises with dumbbells, core exercises, calisthenics such as lunges and planks, balance exercises, stretches, and resistance training regimens with elastic bands and plyometrics are much safer and just as effective. There is no reason why a team can't bring this kind of simple equipment to a tournament on their own.

Even if a team did no weight training for a few days before a tournament game, a season's worth of exercise training fitness wouldn't suddenly disappear. Heavy weight training even for sport lifters and body builders is not recommended for every day, and most athletes take various training breaks during sport seasons.

As an aside, there is even ambiguity about the benefits of stretching. I have heard Geno Auriemma say that he never had an ACL tear on his teams until after they started stretching exercises sometime in the '90's. That's not scientific proof of anything, but it's something that ought to be researched better.

My personal experience with 40 years of weight lifting is that, assuming you're not doing it just to build showy muscles as many macho guys are, you are more likely to be injured by unbalanced "artificial" muscle development caused by heavy weight lifting than by the natural muscle training that flows from the practice of the given sport at issue plus some light weight training and calisthenics.


Ok, great, sure, yeah, whatever. But this is all beside the point, which is the gender inequity of it all.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 03/20/21 3:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Hoopsmom wrote:
purduefanatic wrote:
I would think that teams would all agree that if something needed to be trimmed due to space, a weight room would be the first to go over practice courts, meeting space, team meal space, social distancing space, etc.

Lifting weights isn't part of the "NCAA Tournament experience" so I'm not sure what point Coach Taylor is trying to make there. I highly doubt any of the teams that lose prior to the Sweet 16 are going to be upset or feel they were slighted because they didn't have a huge weight lifting area. Again, there isn't really a ton of lifting that is going to go on right now leading into the first & second round games. Now, with a few days between the end of the second round and the beginning of the Sweet 16, that is a time where a team would get a good lift in, just like what we would do upon return to campus before departing for the Sweet 16.


In a typical year, the teams are not brought to one site 6 days before they play. They get there 2 days before. So yes, they are missing out on some major lift time. I just hope we don’t see ACL‘s and other devastating injuries that often occur when players don’t get the strength and weight bearing exercise that they need to maintain their fitness prior to a game.


Can you cite historical or comparative longitudinal medical studies to support this fear?

You know, there was a very long period of historical time when basketball players did no weight lifting at all -- not in high school, not in college -- other than the weight bearing and aerobic bodily exercise that flows naturally from the constant running, cutting and jumping in the many hours of basketball practice and play that players engage in almost every day. I wonder if there are any credible studies that show there were more "ACL's and other devastating injuries" in those days. I never heard of an ACL injury to a famous (or unfamous) basketball player until Bernard King in 1985, which was in the new weight lifting era.

I think it's ambiguous as to whether basketball players benefit from, or are harmed by, heavy barbell sessions with removable weights, benches, racks and spotters. Many believe lightweight exercises with dumbbells, core exercises, calisthenics such as lunges and planks, balance exercises, stretches, and resistance training regimens with elastic bands and plyometrics are much safer and just as effective. There is no reason why a team can't bring this kind of simple equipment to a tournament on their own.

Even if a team did no weight training for a few days before a tournament game, a season's worth of exercise training fitness wouldn't suddenly disappear. Heavy weight training even for sport lifters and body builders is not recommended for every day, and most athletes take various training breaks during sport seasons.

As an aside, there is even ambiguity about the benefits of stretching. I have heard Geno Auriemma say that he never had an ACL tear on his teams until after they started stretching exercises sometime in the '90's. That's not scientific proof of anything, but it's something that ought to be researched better.

My personal experience with 40 years of weight lifting is that, assuming you're not doing it just to build showy muscles as many macho guys are, you are more likely to be injured by unbalanced "artificial" muscle development caused by heavy weight lifting than by the natural muscle training that flows from the practice of the given sport at issue plus some light weight training and calisthenics.


Ok, great, sure, yeah, whatever. But this is all beside the point, which is the gender inequity of it all.


If neither gender really needs heavy weight training setups for a few days, then what's the sense in outrage about who has unnecessary what?

On the other hand, if weight training is for some reason physiologically necessary, then it makes biological sense that males would need much heavier weight equipment than women.

On the third hand, which may not be applicable in this Covid year, if the men's tourney produces far more revenue than the women's, why shouldn't it have more amenities?

On the final hand, the men are not competing against the women, so the supposed "inequity" is not giving the men any sort of inter-gender advantage. An actual inequity would be for the NCAA to provide equipment for the SEC women's teams but not the ACC women's teams.

Give the women the same heavy equipment as the men if it makes folks feel better. Seems easy. But it won't make a whit of difference to the play in the women's tournament. And I'd like to see video from a 24 hour camera in the women's weight room to see how much the heavy weights are actually used by the approximately 668 players in the 64 team field.
snichols



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PostPosted: 03/20/21 3:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The men got a setup that would be more than sufficient for an offseason strengthening program. The women got a few leftover dumbbells and some yoga mats.

I’m a 58 year old woman, and I need heavier weights than that, and I do compound lifts and need a squat rack and barbells and plates. Lifting heaving keeps my knee with the reconstructed ACL stable and healthy. Can I make do with dumbbells no heavier than 30 lbs for a few weeks? Sure, but so could a man. (And I lift heavier than many men I know.)

The NCAA says in so many ways large and small that women are an afterthought, and we should be grateful for the crumbs left over. I’m sick of it.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 03/20/21 4:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

yep. I'm an old fart and I regularly lift to keep the muscles around the knees healthy to keep stability on an old knee injury. Any of these young women who have had knee injuries should be doing the same, and I would be surprised if they aren't. You don't need a huge amount of gym equipment for that purpose but I'm guessing every person has their own routine and needs. The set of lightweight dumbbells and a yoga mat is really degrading...and perhaps even dangerous.


pilight



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PostPosted: 03/20/21 5:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe the coaches and players know what they need better than you do



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undersized_post



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PostPosted: 03/20/21 5:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's about so much more than the weights. But keep rambling if it makes you feel better.


Luuuc
#NATC


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PostPosted: 03/20/21 8:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
I wonder if these companies would have been so generous with donations had there not been a media outrage.

A cynical person with more belief in the NCAA's deviousness than I have might think this was done intentionally to get stuff free that they otherwise would have had to pay for.

I'd think that plenty of companies would embrace the opportunity to be heroic in that situation - that situation of course including the vital component of not just national but international publicity. Even down here it was on the front page of one of the most popular online news sites.
As for the NCAA, I don't give them credit for being that sneaky. (Even if it was intentional, it was probably still a net fail for all the bad blood it created) Far more likely IMO is that a few dudes in charge thought it would be hilarious to do what they did, and shared a good laugh with each other when the setup was complete.



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 03/21/21 9:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tara's take on this.

Quote:
"I feel betrayed by the NCAA," VanDerveer, who has led the Cardinal to two national championships, said in the statement. "I call on University Presidents and Conference Commissioners to demand accountability. Who made these decisions and why?

"Women athletes and coaches are done waiting, not just for upgrades of a weight room, but for equity in every facet of life. Seeing men's health valued at a higher level than that of women, as evidenced by different testing protocols at both tournaments, is disheartening.

"This cannot continue to be business as usual. There are necessary changes that need to be made."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaw/2021/03/20/tara-vanderveer-stanford-ncaa-blatant-sexism/4788106001/



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pilight



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PostPosted: 03/21/21 10:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/Russ_Steinberg/status/1373839445087113218

Quote:
The NCAA's digital media hub, available to media members working remotely, has press conference transcripts and a slew of game photos for the men's tournament.

Neither is available for the women's tournament until the Sweet 16.



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undersized_post



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PostPosted: 03/21/21 11:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Re: pilight^ it just never ends, does it? Evil or Very Mad

In this press conference from Saturday, Iowa head coach Lisa Bluder is asked about the bubble disparities. She gives a gracious response about the difficulty in planning this tournament and praising the things done well, and also says some inspiring things about women being in support of women making their voices heard. <3 But she also implies there has been some favoritism shown towards certain women's teams:

Quote:
"Some teams are getting treated better than others. And those teams are not sticking up for everybody else. I think we have to look out for ALL the teams, ALL the women's teams, not just "Oh my team's being treated OK so I'm not gonna worry about everybody else." As women leaders, we have to make sure that all teams are treated the same, and treated well."


Any idea what she she might be alluding to here?

For reference, the press conference link is below, and her comments on the bubble begin at 6:40 and lasts about a minute.

https://youtu.be/udOMdp_invI?t=400


Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 03/21/21 11:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:
Re: pilight^ it just never ends, does it? Evil or Very Mad

In this press conference from Saturday, Iowa head coach Lisa Bluder is asked about the bubble disparities. She gives a gracious response about the difficulty in planning this tournament and praising the things done well, and also says some inspiring things about women being in support of women making their voices heard. <3 But she also implies there has been some favoritism shown towards certain women's teams:

Quote:
"Some teams are getting treated better than others. And those teams are not sticking up for everybody else. I think we have to look out for ALL the teams, ALL the women's teams, not just "Oh my team's being treated OK so I'm not gonna worry about everybody else." As women leaders, we have to make sure that all teams are treated the same, and treated well."


Any idea what she she might be alluding to here?


For reference, the press conference link is below, and her comments on the bubble begin at 6:40 and lasts about a minute.

https://youtu.be/udOMdp_invI?t=400


Could be practice/weight room times, meal times (I know that it's boxed meals, but do the players get to choose what they want? or do teams that pick up or are delivered later just get what's left?), COVID testing times, locker room/hotel amenities, meeting rooms, access to training room equipment (whirlpools, massage tables, etc) who got sent to Austin and who stayed in SA. I'm sure that there are a lot of other possibilities, but it's late and I just watched 12 hours of basketball. Smile



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undersized_post



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PostPosted: 03/22/21 4:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Has anyone else noticed the differences in the floors between the men's courts and women's courts? For the men's games they brought in official NCAA branded floors, but the women are just playing on whatever court was in the area already. For example, the Texas State floor that Gonzaga is playing on has a bunch of extra ugly lines marking the volleyball court.


Stormeo



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PostPosted: 03/22/21 5:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:
Has anyone else noticed the differences in the floors between the men's courts and women's courts? For the men's games they brought in official NCAA branded floors, but the women are just playing on whatever court was in the area already. For example, the Texas State floor that Gonzaga is playing on has a bunch of extra ugly lines marking the volleyball court.


Funny you should mention the differences between the floors...

https://twitter.com/mollyhc/status/1374046039573983232

Quote:
The NCAA initially told WSJ that women's bball leaders "chose" not to use the March Madness brand. After WSJ reached out to a former official, NCAA admitted that was inaccurate.

Turns out WBB execs asked at least once to use the brand and were rejected.



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undersized_post



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PostPosted: 03/22/21 5:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
Has anyone else noticed the differences in the floors between the men's courts and women's courts? For the men's games they brought in official NCAA branded floors, but the women are just playing on whatever court was in the area already. For example, the Texas State floor that Gonzaga is playing on has a bunch of extra ugly lines marking the volleyball court.


Funny you should mention the differences between the floors...

https://twitter.com/mollyhc/status/1374046039573983232

Quote:
The NCAA initially told WSJ that women's bball leaders "chose" not to use the March Madness brand. After WSJ reached out to a former official, NCAA admitted that was inaccurate.

Turns out WBB execs asked at least once to use the brand and were rejected.


Wow---this is worse than I imagined Crying or Very sad

It's the national tournament---so why is there a freakin texas longhorn mascot on the floor??? Rolling Eyes

Volleyball uses the NCAA brand floors for their tournament, FWIW.


Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 03/22/21 7:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm thinking that the NCAA had better really come through next year for the women. Would they dare not to?



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Marquette Fan



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PostPosted: 03/22/21 7:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
I'm thinking that the NCAA had better really come through next year for the women. Would they dare not to?


This is the NCAA we are talking about - I'm not expecting things to be any better next year - just expecting more lame excuses if anyone calls them out on things.


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