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| Who Would Win Player of the Year today? |
| Paige Bueckers, UConn |
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14% |
[ 5 ] |
| Nia Cooke, South Carolina |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| Elissa Cunane, NC State |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Dana Evans, Louisville |
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8% |
[ 3 ] |
| Rhyne Howard, Kentucky |
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29% |
[ 10 ] |
| Haley Jones, Stanford |
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20% |
[ 7 ] |
| Aari McDonald, Arizona |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Michaela Onyenwere, UCLA |
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11% |
[ 4 ] |
| Ashley Owusu, Maryland |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| NaLyssa Smith, Baylor |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Someone Else |
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8% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 34 |
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| Author |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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 Posted: 01/06/21 11:47 am ::: |
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No freshman has ever won the Naismith College Player of the Year on the women’s side, and only 4 sophomores have done it: Cheryl Miller, Clarissa Davis, Maya Moore, and Breanna Stewart.
With the even older Wade Trophy, again no freshman has ever won the award and only one sophomore, Maya Moore (only three time winner), has ever won the award. In 2014, Odyssey Sims disrupted Breanna Stewart’s attempt to match Maya.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 01/06/21 12:46 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
No freshman has ever won the Naismith College Player of the Year on the women’s side, and only 4 sophomores have done it: Cheryl Miller, Clarissa Davis, Maya Moore, and Breanna Stewart.
With the even older Wade Trophy, again no freshman has ever won the award and only one sophomore, Maya Moore (only three time winner), has ever won the award. In 2014, Odyssey Sims disrupted Breanna Stewart’s attempt to match Maya. |
It should be noted that for many years the Wade Trophy was awarded to the best senior, so not everyone was always eligible, and I believe for a while the Naismith Award (I might be mixing up awards) was only awarded to a Sophomore, Junior or Senior, so again not everyone was eligible. Of course that doesn’t mean a freshmen or another underclass player would have won had they been eligible, but it’s certainly possible. And it’s a bit misleading to say no freshmen has ever won when they couldn’t based on the rules not their play on the court.
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 01/06/21 2:19 pm ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
It should be noted that for many years the Wade Trophy was awarded to the best senior, so not everyone was always eligible, and I believe for a while the Naismith Award (I might be mixing up awards) was only awarded to a Sophomore, Junior or Senior, so again not everyone was eligible. Of course that doesn’t mean a freshmen or another underclass player would have won had they been eligible, but it’s certainly possible. And it’s a bit misleading to say no freshmen has ever won when they couldn’t based on the rules not their play on the court. |
It was? Nancy Lieberman won the award as a Junior in just its second year. It did have a 17 year run of senior winners, so maybe it has reclassified a couple times?
Interesting caveat...Cheryl Miller and Diana Taurasi both won the award as Juniors before being beaten out by Kamie Ethridge and Alana Beard, respectively.
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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| Posted: 01/07/21 9:22 am ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
| To touch on both comments, this was done on kind of a best-player-on-the-best-team basis. I didn't really look outside the top 15. Putting up huge stats on middling teams usually leaves one relegated to 3rd Team/HM. If Texas continues to accend, yes Collier should be there. The Big Ten has a lot of good players, yes, but Owusu is currently the best player on the best team. Honestly, if I would have done 2 more options they would have been Collier and Naz Hillmon. Should have, lol. |
It is more telling the teams you put up those stats against than the team you are playing for. It is assumed that the top teams play tough schedules except this year that means nothing.
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SDHoops
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WNBA 09
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 01/07/21 3:36 pm ::: |
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| According to the votes as of this moment, the first team AA will be Pistol Paige, Rhyne Howard, Haley Jones, Michaela Onyenwere, and Someone Else. |
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SDHoops
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 01/07/21 11:33 pm ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
It should be noted that for many years the Wade Trophy was awarded to the best senior, so not everyone was always eligible, and I believe for a while the Naismith Award (I might be mixing up awards) was only awarded to a Sophomore, Junior or Senior, so again not everyone was eligible. Of course that doesn’t mean a freshmen or another underclass player would have won had they been eligible, but it’s certainly possible. And it’s a bit misleading to say no freshmen has ever won when they couldn’t based on the rules not their play on the court. |
It was? Nancy Lieberman won the award as a Junior in just its second year. It did have a 17 year run of senior winners, so maybe it has reclassified a couple times?
Interesting caveat...Cheryl Miller and Diana Taurasi both won the award as Juniors before being beaten out by Kamie Ethridge and Alana Beard, respectively. |
I can’t find the years, but from what I remember it was only for a short period of time, like 10 years. Also freshmen are not eligible for the Wade Trophy which is why a freshmen has never won it in the past and will not ever win it (unless the rules change of course).
https://wbca.org/recognize/player-awards/wade-trophy
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 01/10/21 1:32 am ::: |
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| What happened to Collier and Texas today? She only took 2 shots?!?!
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SDHoops
Joined: 09 Nov 2007
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| Posted: 01/10/21 12:37 pm ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
| What happened to Collier and Texas today? She only took 2 shots?!?! |
Christyn Williams took 0 shots for UConn yesterday! Must've been a Space Jam Monstars moment for the Class of 2022
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 01/10/21 8:58 pm ::: |
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I can agree that it is too early to include Bueckers. She needs to perform against better players.
In the U19's in 2019 the US won the gold. Howard was the leading scorer. The team included Boston,Van Lith, Joens, Clark, Brink, Q Egbo & Belibi. Bueckers won the MVP award.
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 01/11/21 12:56 am ::: |
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Based on everything I know about the media's relationship with the Huskies, I can best express my thoughts about Bueckers in a math equasion.
A = B
Whereas:
A = UConn's Best Player
and
B = All-American
So yeah, there's no way in hell UConn's best player isn't voted as an All-American.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12535
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 01/11/21 6:06 pm ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
Based on everything I know about the media's relationship with the Huskies, I can best express my thoughts about Bueckers in a math equasion.
A = B
Whereas:
A = UConn's Best Player
and
B = All-American
So yeah, there's no way in hell UConn's best player isn't voted as an All-American. |
She's not a top 5 player YET to me. Im waiting for UCONN to play a suitable opponent and watch her perform before i peg her as that. Its not her fault though both UCONN big games have been cancelled. LV and Baylor. She will need to play the way shes been playing against Tenn and SC along with the Big East tourney for me to even consider her AA. Remember the nations 2nd leading scorer and now the nations Front runner for POY DID NOT MAKE AA last season. Smh #Disgraceful
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: New York
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| Posted: 01/12/21 9:59 am ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
Based on everything I know about the media's relationship with the Huskies, I can best express my thoughts about Bueckers in a math equasion.
A = B
Whereas:
A = UConn's Best Player
and
B = All-American
So yeah, there's no way in hell UConn's best player isn't voted as an All-American. |
She's not a top 5 player YET to me. Im waiting for UCONN to play a suitable opponent and watch her perform before i peg her as that. Its not her fault though both UCONN big games have been cancelled. LV and Baylor. She will need to play the way shes been playing against Tenn and SC along with the Big East tourney for me to even consider her AA. Remember the nations 2nd leading scorer and now the nations Front runner for POY DID NOT MAKE AA last season. Smh #Disgraceful |
But, to me, last year was talent rich in ways this year is not. Rhyne Howard put up big scoring numbers, but frankly, her team wasn't that good. I agree though, she should've been an AA. I mean, look at what left WBB last year. Injuries aside, Crystal Dangerfield didn't sniff an AA honor, but she was the WNBA ROY.
This year, the elite talent in WBB comes from underclassmen this season. Waaaaaaaaaay more freshman and sophomores are going to be impact players in the W than the juniors and seniors and it allows Howard's star to shine brightest. As for Paige, yes, I'm a UCONN fan, but a sensible one. She does need to perform well against big time opponents, but based on her game, composure, and competitiveness, I have no no doubt that she will I am always skeptical of hype, but she deserves all of it that she gets. I am actually stunned at how good she is. I think if ESPN was hyping her up the way they've done past stars, she would be more in the conversation. But, UCONN really pissed off ESPN with their jump to the Big East, so they aren't going to hype a player when they aren't going to get their ROI.
If the W operated like the NBA, there is no doubt in my mind that Paige Bueckers would be the projected first pick in the 2021 WNBA draft.
Right now though, my National POY is Haley Jones. I mean, she is doing what she is doing and Stanford has only played one game at home. She is smooth and good.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 01/12/21 10:36 am ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
Based on everything I know about the media's relationship with the Huskies, I can best express my thoughts about Bueckers in a math equasion.
A = B
Whereas:
A = UConn's Best Player
and
B = All-American
So yeah, there's no way in hell UConn's best player isn't voted as an All-American. |
She's not a top 5 player YET to me. Im waiting for UCONN to play a suitable opponent and watch her perform before i peg her as that. Its not her fault though both UCONN big games have been cancelled. LV and Baylor. She will need to play the way shes been playing against Tenn and SC along with the Big East tourney for me to even consider her AA. Remember the nations 2nd leading scorer and now the nations Front runner for POY DID NOT MAKE AA last season. Smh #Disgraceful |
But, to me, last year was talent rich in ways this year is not. Rhyne Howard put up big scoring numbers, but frankly, her team wasn't that good. I agree though, she should've been an AA. I mean, look at what left WBB last year. Injuries aside, Crystal Dangerfield didn't sniff an AA honor, but she was the WNBA ROY.
This year, the elite talent in WBB comes from underclassmen this season. Waaaaaaaaaay more freshman and sophomores are going to be impact players in the W than the juniors and seniors and it allows Howard's star to shine brightest. As for Paige, yes, I'm a UCONN fan, but a sensible one. She does need to perform well against big time opponents, but based on her game, composure, and competitiveness, I have no no doubt that she will I am always skeptical of hype, but she deserves all of it that she gets. I am actually stunned at how good she is. I think if ESPN was hyping her up the way they've done past stars, she would be more in the conversation. But, UCONN really pissed off ESPN with their jump to the Big East, so they aren't going to hype a player when they aren't going to get their ROI.
If the W operated like the NBA, there is no doubt in my mind that Paige Bueckers would be the projected first pick in the 2021 WNBA draft.
Right now though, my National POY is Haley Jones. I mean, she is doing what she is doing and Stanford has only played one game at home. She is smooth and good. |
Agreed with everything said here !
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SDHoops
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| Posted: 01/12/21 12:09 pm ::: |
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| I'm surprised that Cunane doesn't get any love from NC State! I love her game...correct me if I'm wrong, but she's one of the key cogs who's brought the Pack back to national relevancy in the past few years?!
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/12/21 12:13 pm ::: |
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| At this point, I find it hard to vote for anyone other than Naz Hillman. Top 10 in points and rebounds in the country for undefeated major conference team? That's very hard to argue against.
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
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Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted: 01/12/21 7:09 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| At this point, I find it hard to vote for anyone other than Naz Hillman. Top 10 in points and rebounds in the country for undefeated major conference team? That's very hard to argue against. |
Thank you! I don’t watch enough outside of the B1G to make a qualified comparison nationally, but she’s pretty darned special. Each year her game grows tremendously. This year she’s improved her free throw shooting by 10% and added more range.
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Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
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| Posted: 01/13/21 8:48 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
I haven't been following SC too closely, but....isn't Boston in that mix, yet? And is Haley Jones Stanford's best? |
IMO Boston really hasn't performed up to last year's standards yet.
I think Jones is our best, but she will be hampered in terms of national honors because of the way Stanford plays - they play very unselfish ball, which is good for w/l, but not for personal glory. |
Boston seems to be ramping up her effort as the season moves along. Would be nice if the team can go on a run of games and not have any major interruptions, but we'll see.
In the first 4 games, Boston shot 17-40 (.425) and averaged 10.5 pts, 8.5 rebs, 1.3 steals and 0.8 blocks per game. In the next 5 games, she's shot 33-65 (.508) and averaged 16.0 pts, 12.4 rebs, 2.0 steals and 3.4 blocks in those games.
In the 9 games she's played thus far she's surpassing her averages from last year in all categories with exception of FG % and FT %, and she's improved substantially in both categories over the last 5 gms (9-12 - .750 - at the FT line), so we'll see if those trends continue....
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: New York
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| Posted: 01/14/21 7:04 am ::: |
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| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
I haven't been following SC too closely, but....isn't Boston in that mix, yet? And is Haley Jones Stanford's best? |
IMO Boston really hasn't performed up to last year's standards yet.
I think Jones is our best, but she will be hampered in terms of national honors because of the way Stanford plays - they play very unselfish ball, which is good for w/l, but not for personal glory. |
Boston seems to be ramping up her effort as the season moves along. Would be nice if the team can go on a run of games and not have any major interruptions, but we'll see.
In the first 4 games, Boston shot 17-40 (.425) and averaged 10.5 pts, 8.5 rebs, 1.3 steals and 0.8 blocks per game. In the next 5 games, she's shot 33-65 (.508) and averaged 16.0 pts, 12.4 rebs, 2.0 steals and 3.4 blocks in those games.
In the 9 games she's played thus far she's surpassing her averages from last year in all categories with exception of FG % and FT %, and she's improved substantially in both categories over the last 5 gms (9-12 - .750 - at the FT line), so we'll see if those trends continue.... |
While I'm no SC fan, I do appreciate their superb and obnoxious amount of talent. I think what might be lost on some people is that alllllllll these players are so young. Boston was just a great player on the team last year with two seniors that had a ton of experience and won a NC. All she had to do was show up, Harris and HH took care of the rest. Not only is Boston young and playing during Covid, but the SC guards are also young.
Not to turn this into a UCONN thing, but we also lost a senior PG, but Crystal was a quiet leader and is just not an alpha, whereas Paige Bueckers is. You could just tell from the opening tip of the season that this is her team, much like Sabrina in 2017. I specifically remember hearing Kara Lawson talk about the 2017 young Ducks and that it was evident that Sabrina was the alpha.
I promise, I'm coming back to SC now, ha! is Henderson or Cooke an alpha type leader?
Sorry for that rollercoaster, don't want to be seen as a hi-jacker of threads. It's early and my coffee hasn't kicked in yet
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/14/21 7:22 am ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| At this point, I find it hard to vote for anyone other than Naz Hillman. Top 10 in points and rebounds in the country for undefeated major conference team? That's very hard to argue against. |
Not that this should be a deciding factor, but when is the last time a POY came from a team outside the top 10 that wasn't Kelsey Plum? I do not think she should've won National POY that season, FWIW-but she was chasing the NCAA scoring record and she was a senior guard, coming off a trip to the FF.
I think that's what could hurt all the B1G candidates for individual awards. The media focuses on the top teams in WBB because they think that's where ratings will come from. Is it fair? No. Is it reality? Yes.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/14/21 10:23 am ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| At this point, I find it hard to vote for anyone other than Naz Hillman. Top 10 in points and rebounds in the country for undefeated major conference team? That's very hard to argue against. |
Not that this should be a deciding factor, but when is the last time a POY came from a team outside the top 10 that wasn't Kelsey Plum? I do not think she should've won National POY that season, FWIW-but she was chasing the NCAA scoring record and she was a senior guard, coming off a trip to the FF.
I think that's what could hurt all the B1G candidates for individual awards. The media focuses on the top teams in WBB because they think that's where ratings will come from. Is it fair? No. Is it reality? Yes. |
You're right. I don't think Hillman will win, but I do think it is where my vote would go now.
If Michigan starts losing games, I might change my mind. If they don't, they'll keep climbing the rankings on her back and it will work itself out.
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Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
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| Posted: 01/19/21 12:32 am ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
I haven't been following SC too closely, but....isn't Boston in that mix, yet? And is Haley Jones Stanford's best? |
IMO Boston really hasn't performed up to last year's standards yet.
I think Jones is our best, but she will be hampered in terms of national honors because of the way Stanford plays - they play very unselfish ball, which is good for w/l, but not for personal glory. |
Boston seems to be ramping up her effort as the season moves along. Would be nice if the team can go on a run of games and not have any major interruptions, but we'll see.
In the first 4 games, Boston shot 17-40 (.425) and averaged 10.5 pts, 8.5 rebs, 1.3 steals and 0.8 blocks per game. In the next 5 games, she's shot 33-65 (.508) and averaged 16.0 pts, 12.4 rebs, 2.0 steals and 3.4 blocks in those games.
In the 9 games she's played thus far she's surpassing her averages from last year in all categories with exception of FG % and FT %, and she's improved substantially in both categories over the last 5 gms (9-12 - .750 - at the FT line), so we'll see if those trends continue.... |
While I'm no SC fan, I do appreciate their superb and obnoxious amount of talent. I think what might be lost on some people is that alllllllll these players are so young. Boston was just a great player on the team last year with two seniors that had a ton of experience and won a NC. All she had to do was show up, Harris and HH took care of the rest. Not only is Boston young and playing during Covid, but the SC guards are also young.
Not to turn this into a UCONN thing, but we also lost a senior PG, but Crystal was a quiet leader and is just not an alpha, whereas Paige Bueckers is. You could just tell from the opening tip of the season that this is her team, much like Sabrina in 2017. I specifically remember hearing Kara Lawson talk about the 2017 young Ducks and that it was evident that Sabrina was the alpha.
I promise, I'm coming back to SC now, ha! is Henderson or Cooke an alpha type leader?
Sorry for that rollercoaster, don't want to be seen as a hi-jacker of threads. It's early and my coffee hasn't kicked in yet |
Actually I feel that BOTH Henderson AND Cooke are alpha leaders, but they do it from different angles. Cooke is NOT a Ty Harris type alpha: Harris was right off the bat as a freshman a player that deferred to other stars on the team - like Wilson, Alaina Coates, Kaela Davis, and Alisha Gray. She hung back and maintained player separations on the floor, led the others with passes, played defense and then picked and chose her own shots when she could.
As a result, throughout Harris' career at USC, she was a strong consistent ball handler (owns the program career record for assists), an above-solid defender, and a career scorer of around 11 ppg. Her best scoring year was last year as a senior, and she only scored around 12 ppg then.
Zia (NOT "Nia" as listed above) is more of an attack the lane and score points player. She will most likely never have really strong numbers in assists. She showed her alpha nature last season as a freshman - she played more minutes than any other freshman (including Boston) and only 2nd to Harris, took more shots from the field, more 3-pt shots, and more free throws than any other Gamecock. She's a bit up and down in her efficiencies, but will be a top shooter and play-maker for the team as long as she's in the program.
Henderson is more of a Harris type alpha, but even better when it comes to offense. She was designated from the start as Ty's heir apparent at PG, and she's learned well: in her first season as the established PG1, she's averaging 6.0 assists per game through 11 gms thus far - Ty only had 1 season where she averaged 6+ apg. In SEC play through 5 gms, Henderson has 36 assists (7.2 apg) and only 14 turnovers. In the 5 SEC games played thus far, Henderson set her career game high of 9 assists (Florida), tied it again (Vanderbilt) and then reset it at 10 assists (Arkansas).
Both Cooke and Henderson are fast guards, but Henderson being the smaller of the two is the fastest - almost Cuevas-Moore lightning quick, but in more control of herself. She is not as good of a defender that Harris was - she doesn't gather near as many steals per game - but she is surprisingly a stellar rebounder, with the innate sense for the carom that most forwards have, and she gets to the ball before anyone else can.
In the 5 SEC games thus far, Henderson is averaging 14.0 ppg, 7.2 apg, and 6.4 rpg. For the season (11 gms), she's at 13.2 ppg, 6.0 apg, and 5.8 rpg. She shoots at a better FG % and 3-pt FG % than Harris typically did, and is right on her heels at the FT line (79%).
So after all that, I would say that both Cooke and Henderson are alpha type leaders for the Gamecocks - they just do it in different fashion.....
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SDHoops
Joined: 09 Nov 2007
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| Posted: 01/19/21 12:00 pm ::: |
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| Has a player ever won POTY while sitting out two games for discipline and one for injury? In the W, missing such amount of games would disqualify a player regardless of reason. Jones from Stanford.....now numero uno?
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As a matter of fact, why is Caitlin Clark being ignored?