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Will You Be Getting the Coronavirus Vaccine?
Yes
40%
 40%  [ 6 ]
Hell to the Yeah
20%
 20%  [ 3 ]
Throw a dart and aim for my ass, yes
20%
 20%  [ 3 ]
Use a blowgun and hit me in the neck as I drive by the ER
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
No, personal health reasons
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
No, I don't trust/believe in it.
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 15

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jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 01/09/21 1:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
I remember quite clearly Pfizer stating that no state or other governing bodies should withhold shots due to wanting to retain vaccine for second doses. They said that was not their intention and that they would be able to supply enough vaccine for the second doses. I don’t know if anything has changed on that but I’m absolutely positive I heard it.


But think about it. If Pfizer sent out all this vaccine in the first shipments, intending NONE OF IT/THEM to be withheld for second doses... maintaining that they had intended—which means conceived of and designed—a vaccine rollout wherein they would then have enough vaccine en route to supply second doses to everywhere they had shipped what they were by design stipulating to be first doses... something has certainly gotten fucked up along the way if states and hospitals are withholding vaccine so as to have on hand the second doses they will need for those they’ve given first doses to.

And I think it’s been pretty well established (or has it? can the reporting be trusted) that the withholding of vaccine for second doses is something that is indeed happening and happening in many places.

So what happened along the way to the original plan and guidance from Pfizer, the manufacturer of the vaccine, which I’m absolutely certain I heard reported on CNN? Why am I the only one recalling something as important as this? We know that the federal government would be primary in terms of those who did not get or did not adhere to Pfizer’s plan that what they were initially shipping was to be first doses with second doses to come later.

My point is that if Pfizer was making this promise then I’m suggesting they were prepared to follow through on their promise and that any deviation by the feds, state governments, or hospitals etc. would have amounted to some kind of snafu breakdown that borders on negligence. Anyway.



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61807
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PostPosted: 01/09/21 2:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We need to get the government out of this process. 200 million people receive vaccinations every year in this country without politicians trying to micromanage the process. If Biden was smart he'd let those people do their jobs then hold a press conference to take credit for how well it's going.



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FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 01/09/21 2:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
I remember quite clearly Pfizer stating that no state or other governing bodies should withhold shots due to wanting to retain vaccine for second doses. They said that was not their intention and that they would be able to supply enough vaccine for the second doses. I don’t know if anything has changed on that but I’m absolutely positive I heard it.


But think about it. If Pfizer sent out all this vaccine in the first shipments, intending NONE OF IT/THEM to be withheld for second doses... maintaining that they had intended—which means conceived of and designed—a vaccine rollout wherein they would then have enough vaccine en route to supply second doses to everywhere they had shipped what they were by design stipulating to be first doses... something has certainly gotten fucked up along the way if states and hospitals are withholding vaccine so as to have on hand the second doses they will need for those they’ve given first doses to.

And I think it’s been pretty well established (or has it? can the reporting be trusted) that the withholding of vaccine for second doses is something that is indeed happening and happening in many places.

So what happened along the way to the original plan and guidance from Pfizer, the manufacturer of the vaccine, which I’m absolutely certain I heard reported on CNN? Why am I the only one recalling something as important as this? We know that the federal government would be primary in terms of those who did not get or did not adhere to Pfizer’s plan that what they were initially shipping was to be first doses with second doses to come later.

My point is that if Pfizer was making this promise then I’m suggesting they were prepared to follow through on their promise and that any deviation by the feds, state governments, or hospitals etc. would have amounted to some kind of snafu breakdown that borders on negligence. Anyway.


States and hospitals are holding doses for the second round because they've been unable to even obtain their full allocations for the first round.


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20629



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PostPosted: 01/09/21 2:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fro is that because the feds are withholding stockpiles?



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 01/09/21 3:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Fro is that because the feds are withholding stockpiles?


IDK. I doubt it's "withholding." Either the fed isn't getting the supplies from the manufacturers, or more likely it's bureaucratic ineptitude in the supply chain. Just a guess.

Example...NH had 113K people in Tier 1a, and the federal govt allocated 65K doses for those people. NH had received 49K doses as of the end of Dec. (The state has actually administered >50% of what it's received, so obviously it's not withholding a second round of doses for all the patients who received a first round dose.)


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20629



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PostPosted: 01/09/21 3:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
We need to get the government out of this process. 200 million people receive vaccinations every year in this country without politicians trying to micromanage the process. If Biden was smart he'd let those people do their jobs then hold a press conference to take credit for how well it's going.


Yeah, I don’t get it either. And things just normally look so different where I am. There are SO many doctors offices and clinics and medical groups, HMOs, and don’t get me started on pharmacies. LOL. There’s a RiteAid up the street and another one on the other side of tiny downtown Beverly Hills. A Walgreens or a RiteAid down Wilshire about halfway through Beverly Hills.

But PEOPLE, do you have any freaking idea how many hole in the wall independent pharmacies there are in Beverly Hills? OMG. And Beverly Hills is about the size of Aliquippa proper. I’m going to guess something between 50 and a hundred. LOl.

Here are just the BEST 30 pharmacies in Beverly Hills.

https://www.yellowpages.com/beverly-hills-ca/pharmacies

So many nurse practitioners and doctors office nurses etc. So many who are not working in the hospitals on COVID wards. Persons to administer vaccines who give shots every day of their lives, and, with some solid coordination, facilities in which to give those shots, I mean in a place like Los Angeles the resources that provide the capabilities to do this on a much larger scale are there just waiting to be utilized.

Dry ice delivery. A narrow window of time to administer a set number of doses. Twice a week here and there. Something!



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 2237



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PostPosted: 01/09/21 5:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Walgreens and CVS's here are designated vax admins. A lot of doctors' offices, other than Peds and some primary care, do not routinely administer vaccines. There are a lot of obstacles to get those places up and running in a vaccine program...the office has to retrain personnel if they haven't given vaccines since nursing school, has to have access and training on the online enrollment system, documentation of the vaccines given, and so forth. They have to divert time away from their regular schedule. AND the practice has to have vax admin covered by its malpractice policy.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 2237



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PostPosted: 01/09/21 9:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, here's some good news. Pfizer has some preliminary, as yet not peer-reviewed data, that shows their vax will work against the new coronavirus mutations that are rapidly spreading through the UK and South Africa. Moderna "feels confident" their vax will work as well.

There's at least one vaccine in research that will be able to work against 2 variants, similar to the current flu vaccines that are designed to work against previous strains as well as a new one each year.


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20629



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PostPosted: 01/10/21 3:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CNN reporting vaccine doses distributed/administered numbers this morning:

22,137,350 (distributed)

06,688,231 (administered)



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20629



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PostPosted: 01/10/21 3:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
CNN reporting vaccine doses distributed/administered numbers this morning:

22,137,350 (distributed)

06,688,231 (administered)


Okay this is incredible. And I just don’t remember the news media being like this ever before and it is stuff like this that makes me just ask what is actually going on here?

So CNN has this graphic up exactly as I’ve keyed it in here. 22.1M doses distributed vs 6.6M administered.

Key words here are ‘distributed’ and ‘administered.’

Fredericka Whitfield, one of the old school network vets on CNN who is a pretty reliable journalist, and a Biden transition advisor/doctor.

And then, in discussing this situation, the Biden person says this. We don’t have an availability problem. We have a distribution problem.

Shocked

And then she proceeds to describe all of these problems and issues surrounding the administration of doses, nursing homes not wanting to give the shots during the holidays, facilities withholding vaccine for second doses, etc. AS distribution problems.

Both of them. Fredericka, too. For the rest of the discussion, with this graphic up as I posted it, they both refer to all of these actual getting the shots that are ‘on the scene’ (so to speak) into the arms of people, and referring to all of that as a distribution problem.

To borrow a phrase from the young people

I mean I just can’t.

Okay, I’ll try. Why is this important? Because this is a top level incoming federal health official and she’s misusing a word that the network and anyone with a brain is associating with the first of the two key issues here, distribution of vaccine, and applying it to what anyone with a brain would call the administration of the doses.

I don’t want to be paranoid but it’s classic almost Orwellian word speak. It’s sows further confusion around an issue that many Americans are confused about, the news media is right there providing a big assist. There’s no discussion, by the way, of the problem that Fro describes of some states not getting their allocation. They are talking about one thing, the problem with doses in the possession of those who will administer them, the problems with those doses being administered, and calling it a distribution problem.

I don’t know what else to say.



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 01/10/21 4:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jam, the problem is both distribution and administration.
Here are the distribution data by state.
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-covid-19-vaccines-administered.html

Take a look at NH who is #4. The state identified 113K people who qualify as Tier 1a. The state needs 226K doses for those people. NH received 77K doses. They've started giving second doses now. The governor is hoping for another 25K doses this week.
= DISTRIBUTION PROBLEM

Now look at #1 ND, who has administered 62% of the doses it's received.
Then #50 GA, who's only administered 17% of doses received.
= ADMINISTRATION PROBLEM.

As to an AVAILABILITY PROBLEM, what are the production numbers by Pfizer and Moderna, and where are all those doses?


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20629



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PostPosted: 01/10/21 5:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I get that, Fro, and mentioned it in my comment. But THEY aren’t mentioning it in their discussion of distribution problems. And, believe me, they’re not speaking to or even thinking of that actual distribution problem in discussing what they’re now referring to as a distribution problem.

She switched definitions there. Now the actual administration of doses is being referred to by top incoming health officials in the Biden administration as a distribution problem. That’s just wack.

I don’t know what it means, but I can tell you it sure would muddy the waters around New Hampshire’s actual distribution problem and I bet someone sitting there where you are actually dealing with that problem was watching this conversation and doing face palms.

Hey, words matter. And the public is confused enough as it is. Distribution is the getting of product into facilities where it is to be utilized. To call nursing homes not wanting to vaccinate during the holidays or hospitals withholding vaccine for second doses a distribution problem is pretty much saying this isn’t our (the federal government’s) distribution problem... this is your (hospitals, nursing homes) distribution problem.


Technically, sure, everything can be called a distribution problem. And if you want to actually talk about distribution problems then talk about New Hampshire. Otherwise, how do we talk about the failures? We need specific language that people can understand. Surely there are both distribution problems and problems with the administration of doses on the ground.

I might just be in a pissy mood but I’m now just a totally rewired and actually hot-rodded media skeptic. I see nefarious motives everywhere.



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 2237



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PostPosted: 01/10/21 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some of it is semantics. I guess everything that intervenes between Pfizer putting a vaccine dose in a bottle and that dose being injected into a patient's arm is a distribution issue. I left the term "allocation" out of my last post. That's the bottleneck where someone at the fed level decides how much vaccine NH is getting. NH may need and request 226K doses, then be allocated 93K doses, then actually receive 79K doses. I don't know who's actually in charge of this...the CDC, HHS, the White House, or someone else.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8301



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PostPosted: 01/10/21 9:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

After Unused Vaccines Are Thrown in Trash, Cuomo Loosens Rules

Quote:
Across New York State, medical providers in recent weeks had the same story: They had been forced to throw out precious vaccine doses because of difficulties finding patients who matched precisely with the state’s strict vaccination guidelines — and the steep penalties they would face had they made a mistake.


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 01/10/21 9:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
After Unused Vaccines Are Thrown in Trash, Cuomo Loosens Rules

Quote:
Across New York State, medical providers in recent weeks had the same story: They had been forced to throw out precious vaccine doses because of difficulties finding patients who matched precisely with the state’s strict vaccination guidelines — and the steep penalties they would face had they made a mistake.


Indiana started giving most vaccinations on Dec. 18. From day one I know of people that were scheduled for January vaccination dates who were getting called in to receive theirs early so that doses wouldn't go to waste. I've taken four calls so far checking on the availability of three different people to receive theirs early. It kind of amazes me that other states/cities/locations are having issues with this.



_________________
"The biggest antidote to his poison is the vote.” — Nancy Pelosi

"Our democracy is designed to speak truth to power." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

"If this guy can be Senator, you can do anything." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20629



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PostPosted: 01/10/21 11:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

From Scott Gottlieb: @scottgottliebMD

47 million doses of Covid vaccine have been "allocated" to the government, less than 7 million used. We're in a race against new Covid variants gaining foothold in U.S. There are 50 million seniors over age 65. We have the tools to protect many of them. We should give them access.

CNN said 23M today. That’s half of what Gottlieb has said. So are we’re now maybe seeing the effect of not being on the same page semantically? Because those quotation marks around allocated are Scott Gottlieb’s.

Because if he is right and allocated is distributed? Oh my.



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 01/11/21 1:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree words matter a lot and should be used with precision; otherwise, we cannot even diagnose the problem much less remedy it.

I would use the word "supply" to refer the the manufacturing availability of the vaccine from the suppliers, currently Pfizer and Moderna. I would use "distribution" to refer to the transportation of the vials from the suppliers to the states. (I don't believe the vials physically go to the federal government). I would use "administration" to refer to the states' injecting of doses into human arms.

The federal government is handling the distribution by making transportation available via military and other governmental aircraft and vehicles. I don't think there is a distribution problem. The states seem to receive distributions on a timely basis, subject to available supply, and many or most states have more vials than they can currently administer.

In the short and medium term, there surely will be a supply problem. The suppliers are trying to produce billions of doses worldwide and they have manufacturing limitations. That's a business problem, not a federal or state government problem.

The current problem is administration at the state level of the doses that are being received. States are guided in their administration protocols by recommendations from the CDC, another political bureaucracy, but are legally free to do what they want. As the CT governor puts it, some states have chosen to micromanage administration while others have chosen a "wild west" approach, whereby anyone can sign up and wait in long lines to get vaccinated.

CT is trying to split that baby, but there are strong political dissents in how to administer phase 1b. Some on the state administration committee (for which the governor is a puppet) want to distribute solely on the basis of medical mortality risk, mainly age and comorbidities. Others on the committee, using the euphemism "equity", want to put black and brown people into phase 1b because they, as populations, are supposedly at greater risk than whites or Asians. Ironically, these are the very racial populations that are the greatest refuseniks.

The current situation, in my opinion, is a general lack of vaccine supply, due to manufacturing constraints, compounded by state government micromanagement and politically motivated differences of opinion within state governments.
Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 01/11/21 8:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
I agree words matter a lot and should be used with precision; otherwise, we cannot even diagnose the problem much less remedy it.

I would use the word "supply" to refer the the manufacturing availability of the vaccine from the suppliers, currently Pfizer and Moderna. I would use "distribution" to refer to the transportation of the vials from the suppliers to the states. (I don't believe the vials physically go to the federal government). I would use "administration" to refer to the states' injecting of doses into human arms.

The federal government is handling the distribution by making transportation available via military and other governmental aircraft and vehicles. I don't think there is a distribution problem. The states seem to receive distributions on a timely basis, subject to available supply, and many or most states have more vials than they can currently administer.

In the short and medium term, there surely will be a supply problem. The suppliers are trying to produce billions of doses worldwide and they have manufacturing limitations. That's a business problem, not a federal or state government problem.

The current problem is administration at the state level of the doses that are being received. States are guided in their administration protocols by recommendations from the CDC, another political bureaucracy, but are legally free to do what they want. As the CT governor puts it, some states have chosen to micromanage administration while others have chosen a "wild west" approach, whereby anyone can sign up and wait in long lines to get vaccinated.

CT is trying to split that baby, but there are strong political dissents in how to administer phase 1b. Some on the state administration committee (for which the governor is a puppet) want to distribute solely on the basis of medical mortality risk, mainly age and comorbidities. Others on the committee, using the euphemism "equity", want to put black and brown people into phase 1b because they, as populations, are supposedly at greater risk than whites or Asians. Ironically, these are the very racial populations that are the greatest refuseniks.

The current situation, in my opinion, is a general lack of vaccine supply, due to manufacturing constraints, compounded by state government micromanagement and politically motivated differences of opinion within state governments.


I can't remember what it was I was watching over the weekend, but it was mentioned that there could be problems with the manufacturers getting the needed supplies to produce the vaccine. I don't know if that was the vaccine itself or the vials that it is put in. They were talking about the defense production act coming in to play again.



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"The biggest antidote to his poison is the vote.” — Nancy Pelosi

"Our democracy is designed to speak truth to power." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

"If this guy can be Senator, you can do anything." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 01/11/21 2:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My dad said one of his doctors is compiling a list of patients he would like to have vaccinated if he ends up with more doses than eligible recipients in the lifetime of the doses he receives. Dad, being a 70mumble diabetic with a history of respiratory infections if you look at him funny during the winter, is on that auxiliary list.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 01/11/21 6:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And Biden promises to release all doses instead of holding back any second doses, filmed as he was receiving his second dose.


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 01/11/21 8:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

An Indy TV station did a story about wasted vaccines. They contacted the hospitals in the area and out of76,276, fewer than 14 were wasted.

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/investigations/13-investigates/indiana-hospitals-respond-to-the-call-to-prevent-the-waste-of-covid-vaccine/531-26423ada-0416-48b6-9330-441f256badc3



_________________
"The biggest antidote to his poison is the vote.” — Nancy Pelosi

"Our democracy is designed to speak truth to power." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

"If this guy can be Senator, you can do anything." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 01/11/21 8:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That’s just spillage, Ref. They’re doing great. I think if the states loosen the threats of legal and financial consequences and, I’m just going to say it, you got to know that a lot of these institutions are concerned about a story of some privileged someone not in the first tiers being revealed to have gotten a shot out of turn going viral on social media and scandal sheets like the Daily Mail. So there’s fear there I’m sure of a public relations disaster and hospitals so don’t need anything like that right now.



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 01/12/21 1:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Gov. announces CT residents ages 75 and older can make vaccine appointments next week

I know the older you are the more at risk, but this fatality rate seems high:

Quote:
The first people among the group will be people 75 years or older. That amounts to five percent of the state’s population, but this is the segment of the population that is seeing a 60 percent fatality rate.


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20629



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PostPosted: 01/12/21 8:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NyTimes:

California Ramps Up Vaccinations as It Struggles With Caseload
The state is setting up mass vaccination sites, including at Dodger Stadium and Disneyland.



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 01/12/21 8:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Gov. announces CT residents ages 75 and older can make vaccine appointments next week

I know the older you are the more at risk, but this fatality rate seems high:

Quote:
The first people among the group will be people 75 years or older. That amounts to five percent of the state’s population, but this is the segment of the population that is seeing a 60 percent fatality rate.


The easy numbers to find for Indiana show that people 70+ make up 11.5% of the state's positive cases. They account for 78.5% of the state's deaths (70-79 = 25.8%, 80+ = 52.3%).

Anybody interested in doing math, here's where the numbers came from: https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/



_________________
"The biggest antidote to his poison is the vote.” — Nancy Pelosi

"Our democracy is designed to speak truth to power." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

"If this guy can be Senator, you can do anything." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
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