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Who WILL Win Race for President
Biden
76%
 76%  [ 10 ]
Trump
23%
 23%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 13

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justintyme



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PostPosted: 11/07/20 11:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To highlight how rare it is for an incumbent president to lose:

I've voted in every election since I turned 18. Starting with Clinton in 1996. Of the 7 presidential elections I've voted in, this is the first one ever in which the incumbent lost.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 11/07/20 11:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
It's called.

Really all this delay has done is made people who haven't been following things like the 538 live blog feel like this election is closer than it was. While it wasn't the total landslide the polls suggested, the reason Biden was given such a high % chance to win was that he could survive major polling errors in Trump's favor.

And for those watching the breakdown of where the mail-in votes were coming from, how heavily they were splitting in Biden's favor, and when they were bring counted and added to the vote totals it has been clear that Biden was going to win quite comfortably for some time.

Yet I would get messages from family who don't follow these things that closely, and they all were discussing it like it was still a true toss up. I spent more time explaining why, no, it's not even close anymore...

In a normal election year we would be talking about how an incumbent president just lost by a fairly large margin. People need to realize how rare that is. Incumbency is one of the biggest advantages a person can have in a Presidential election. This likely will cement Trump's legacy, when looked back upon by future historians, as being the worst president in US History up to this point. James Buchanan will have been dethroned.


This is what I have been saying for days to anyone who would listen (basically just my husband). This is not a close election. It's closer than the landslide some were predicting, but both the popular and EC vote totals will be wide margins. The thing had basically been over since Tuesday night (maybe Wednesday morning) to anyone paying attention.


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 11/07/20 12:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So happy to be wrong on this. As much as I wanted Biden to win (and that was a LOT!!!!), I just couldn't get past the memory of going to bed in 2016 and waking up to Trump as president to let me believe that it would be possible.

And can we give a shout out to Kamala!!!!!! You go girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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"Our democracy is designed to speak truth to power." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

"If this guy can be Senator, you can do anything." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
craigmont



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PostPosted: 11/07/20 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Definitely believe Trump wins a second term. It should be close. And much like 2016, we’ll likely know before we go to bed tonight.

One thing the media (mainstream and otherwise) is not covering as an issue at all in this election is, I believe, ironically, the main driver of what I think will be a Trump victory and that is not Covid or the economy. It’s the rioting, the unrest, the violent takeover of cities, the talk of defunding police, all of it. Enough people want to see law and order restored right now I think to elect Richard Nixon as president. We’ll see.

An interesting thing to watch is going to be California numbers for Trump. I’m also predicting a big increase there over 2016. Should impact popular vote results. Again. I can’t see the future. We don’t have long to wait now. Be well and stay safe. Honestly, it doesn’t matter all that much who is President right now.


I see your prognostication skills are still about the same! Very Happy


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 11/07/20 8:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This does it. I’m fucking running for President when I’m 78. Mark it down.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 11/07/20 9:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am pretty cynical but

those were some pretty good speeches


pilight



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PostPosted: 11/07/20 9:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
This does it. I’m fucking running for President when I’m 78. Mark it down.


Jammer in 2024!



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 11/07/20 11:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
This does it. I’m fucking running for President when I’m 78. Mark it down.


Jammer in 2024!


Haha. Thank you but you know I won’t be 78 until 2054.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
Howee



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PostPosted: 11/08/20 12:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
pilight wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
This does it. I’m fucking running for President when I’m 78. Mark it down.


Jammer in 2024!


Haha. Thank you but you know I won’t be 78 until 2054.


....which is not a Presidential Election year. Hmmmm.... Razz Laughing



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PostPosted: 11/08/20 3:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Honestly, it doesn’t matter all that much who is President right now.

Doesn't matter to who?



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 11/08/20 8:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Honestly, it doesn’t matter all that much who is President right now.

Doesn't matter to who?


In the United States, where I live, we know that who the actual president is has little or no effect at all on the lives of the vast majority of Americans. Both political parties are in the pockets of corporate interests and the affluent and this government’s policies have virtually no impact on the fortunes and prospects and well being of the citizens of this nation unless it is as it has been for decades, to only worsen those prospects.

The trend has been slow but steady economic decline for decades now as the Democratic Party has been removed from the grasp and influence of the working and middle classes and without control of at least one of the two major political parties in the United States, we the people have no actual voice in the political system and the lives of most Americans continue to slowly spiral downward.

Many of us live with the realities of this economic destruction of the middle and working classes in our country if not personally then through our families and friends. Eight years of Barack Obama only saw an escalation of the problems and it wasn’t long into his first term we started to hear the phrase ‘New Glided Age’ thrown around.

We just elected a career politician who has a 47 year record of being in the pockets of the big banks and who has voted for every war that has ever been up for vote before him. He also helped write a crime bill that many on the left point to as being key to the destruction of prospects for generations of African Americans. In fact, one needn’t look any further than to the current conditions of lower income blacks in our cities to see the never ending economic stasis that has been the open wound that every few years or decades explodes for a time as it did this year and then soon is forgotten when the corporate controlled media moves on to other subjects.

But if you know this country and you’re honest, you know one thing. Nothing ever changes in that part of America. Democrat or Republican president. White or black president.

Inequality continues to worsen in America and has regardless of which party is in power in any of the branches of government. But most people who understand the American political system will tell you that the president in particular has very little actual power on his own to impact the direction of the country and even less so when facing political opposition in either one or both houses of Congress.

That’s in normal times like most of the last half century. At this particular moment? Never before have both major political parties been as aligned in the pursuit of policies that benefit their corporate and private paymasters. This isn’t simply me speaking. Howee has been pushing Chris Hedges here lately. Let me get some of his YouTube videos and you can listen to an actual political scholar describing and explaining these same basic painful truths about the American political system.

And although it was firmly rooted in my admittedly gloomy but fact-based perspective on American politics, that last sentence was actually meant to deescalate the passions and disappointments of people here who might have been overly anxious about the results of this election.

But thanks for asking. Cool



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 11/08/20 9:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Honestly, it doesn’t matter all that much who is President right now.

Doesn't matter to who?


The corporate controlled media is already getting to work lowering expectations for the new administration. This from TODAY's New York Times. The voice of Debbie Downer has been boldfaced.

"For Mr. Biden, who won the election in a deeply divided nation, the early signals he sends as the country’s new leader will be critical. On the trail, he repeatedly said he was campaigning as a Democrat but would govern “as an American.”

Following through on that promise will require him to demonstrate some respect for parts of the Trump agenda that were fiercely supported by the more than 70 million people who did not cast ballots for him."

"But there is no question that Mr. Biden and members of his party are eager to systematically erase what they view as destructive policies that the president pursued on the environment, immigration, health care, gay rights, trade, tax cuts, civil rights, abortion, race relations, military spending and more.

Some of that will require cooperation with Congress, which may remain divided next year."

"If Republicans maintain control of the Senate, Mr. Biden’s pledges to roll back Mr. Trump’s tax cuts are almost certain to run headfirst into fierce opposition from that chamber.


"Efforts to advance a more liberal agenda on civil rights and race relations — centerpieces of Mr. Biden’s stump speech during his campaign — may falter."

"And his efforts to shape the new government with appointments could be constrained by the need to win approval in a Republican Senate."

"But Mr. Biden may be able to achieve some of his goals with nothing more than the stroke of a pen. Mr. Trump largely failed to successfully negotiate with House Democrats during his four years in office, leaving him no choice but to use executive actions to advance his agenda. Mr. Biden can use the same tools to reverse them.

Prior presidents have tried to do just that, though not always successfully."

"On his first full day in the White House in 2009, Mr. Obama issued an executive order on presidential records and a second one on ethics that, among other provisions, tried to ban members of his administration from lobbying the federal government for two years after they leave.

Ethics watchdogs later complained that some officials had found ways around the restrictions."

"The next day, Mr. Obama ordered an end to torture by the government, responding to an outcry over the use of harsh interrogation measures by his predecessor. He also ordered the closure of the terrorist detention facility at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba

— which members of Congress were continuing to block by the time he left office EIGHT YEARS LATER."

LOL! Is this Weekly Update on SNL or the New York Times?



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
Luuuc
#NATC


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 11/08/20 10:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Honestly, it doesn’t matter all that much who is President right now.

Doesn't matter to who?


In the United States, where I live, we know that who the actual president is has little or no effect at all on the lives of the vast majority of Americans. Both political parties are in the pockets of corporate interests and the affluent and this government’s policies have virtually no impact on the fortunes and prospects and well being of the citizens of this nation unless it is as it has been for decades, to only worsen those prospects.

The trend has been slow but steady economic decline for decades now as the Democratic Party has been removed from the grasp and influence of the working and middle classes and without control of at least one of the two major political parties in the United States, we the people have no actual voice in the political system and the lives of most Americans continue to slowly spiral downward.

Many of us live with the realities of this economic destruction of the middle and working classes in our country if not personally then through our families and friends. Eight years of Barack Obama only saw an escalation of the problems and it wasn’t long into his first term we started to hear the phrase ‘New Glided Age’ thrown around.

We just elected a career politician who has a 47 year record of being in the pockets of the big banks and who has voted for every war that has ever been up for vote before him. He also helped write a crime bill that many on the left point to as being key to the destruction of prospects for generations of African Americans. In fact, one needn’t look any further than to the current conditions of lower income blacks in our cities to see the never ending economic stasis that has been the open wound that every few years or decades explodes for a time as it did this year and then soon is forgotten when the corporate controlled media moves on to other subjects.

But if you know this country and you’re honest, you know one thing. Nothing ever changes in that part of America. Democrat or Republican president. White or black president.

Inequality continues to worsen in America and has regardless of which party is in power in any of the branches of government. But most people who understand the American political system will tell you that the president in particular has very little actual power on his own to impact the direction of the country and even less so when facing political opposition in either one or both houses of Congress.

That’s in normal times like most of the last half century. At this particular moment? Never before have both major political parties been as aligned in the pursuit of policies that benefit their corporate and private paymasters. This isn’t simply me speaking. Howee has been pushing Chris Hedges here lately. Let me get some of his YouTube videos and you can listen to an actual political scholar describing and explaining these same basic painful truths about the American political system.

And although it was firmly rooted in my admittedly gloomy but fact-based perspective on American politics, that last sentence was actually meant to deescalate the passions and disappointments of people here who might have been overly anxious about the results of this election.

But thanks for asking. Cool

OK, so any other prez would have had equal disdain for the available medical/scientific expertise at hand and allowed 230k+ Americans to die. Just to use one example.
Given how big of an outlier the USA has been with this, I find that hard to believe.
Or are you claiming that Trump had no influence on what happened?
Or are you just saying that Covid isn't a big deal?



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 11/08/20 10:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:

OK, so any other prez would have had equal disdain for the available medical/scientific expertise at hand and allowed 230k+ Americans to die. Just to use one example.
Given how big of an outlier the USA has been with this, I find that hard to believe.
Or are you claiming that Trump had no influence on what happened?
Or are you just saying that Covid isn't a big deal?


I said what I said and I certainly didn't say what you're asking there. And nothing I actually said is any less true, valid, or relevant than it was before you wrote this response.

COVID-19 is an entirely different matter, and a very complicated one. I kinda sorta think I know what 'is.' I am old and mature enough to know that none of us are really all that good with 'what ifs.'



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 13115
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 11/08/20 12:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Honestly, it doesn’t matter all that much who is President right now.

Doesn't matter to who?


It's just not valid to say it "doesn't matter all that much", IF YOU CONSIDER THE 'HERE AND NOW'. In the long run, history will judge Trump for what he is and what he hasn't been all along....and 100 years from now, the analysts will comprehend how what jammer posits has played out.

But yes, his mishandling of Covid DID matter. Muchly.

I stated earlier (somewhere on this forum) that I can't honestly say ANY president in my adult memory has had significant impact on my life. But that comes with the caveat that I have also never had to deal with racial discrimination, poverty, or immigration/citizenship. I have personal acquaintances who DO deal with these things, and have felt increased negative impacts under Trump.

Presidents USTA matter. Jefferson. Lincoln. FDR. etc.



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 11/08/20 1:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Honestly, it doesn’t matter all that much who is President right now.

Doesn't matter to who?


It's just not valid to say it "doesn't matter all that much", IF YOU CONSIDER THE 'HERE AND NOW'. In the long run, history will judge Trump for what he is and what he hasn't been all along....and 100 years from now, the analysts will comprehend how what jammer posits has played out.

But yes, his mishandling of Covid DID matter. Muchly.

I stated earlier (somewhere on this forum) that I can't honestly say ANY president in my adult memory has had significant impact on my life. But that comes with the caveat that I have also never had to deal with racial discrimination, poverty, or immigration/citizenship. I have personal acquaintances who DO deal with these things, and have felt increased negative impacts under Trump.

Presidents USTA matter. Jefferson. Lincoln. FDR. etc.


It mattered a LOT when it was Trump seating SCOTUS justices.



_________________
"The biggest antidote to his poison is the vote.” — Nancy Pelosi

"Our democracy is designed to speak truth to power." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 13115
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 11/08/20 2:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Howee wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Honestly, it doesn’t matter all that much who is President right now.

Doesn't matter to who?


It's just not valid to say it "doesn't matter all that much", IF YOU CONSIDER THE 'HERE AND NOW'. In the long run, history will judge Trump for what he is and what he hasn't been all along....and 100 years from now, the analysts will comprehend how what jammer posits has played out.

But yes, his mishandling of Covid DID matter. Muchly.

I stated earlier (somewhere on this forum) that I can't honestly say ANY president in my adult memory has had significant impact on my life. But that comes with the caveat that I have also never had to deal with racial discrimination, poverty, or immigration/citizenship. I have personal acquaintances who DO deal with these things, and have felt increased negative impacts under Trump.

Presidents USTA matter. Jefferson. Lincoln. FDR. etc.


It mattered a LOT when it was Trump seating SCOTUS justices.


....and ALL his federal judge appointees. Those legacies will linger longer than some of will live. I truly wish somebody could begin to consider limiting judges' terms, from scotus on down, to 10 or 15 year terms.



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PostPosted: 11/08/20 7:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Luuuc wrote:

OK, so any other prez would have had equal disdain for the available medical/scientific expertise at hand and allowed 230k+ Americans to die. Just to use one example.
Given how big of an outlier the USA has been with this, I find that hard to believe.
Or are you claiming that Trump had no influence on what happened?
Or are you just saying that Covid isn't a big deal?


I said what I said and I certainly didn't say what you're asking there. And nothing I actually said is any less true, valid, or relevant than it was before you wrote this response.

COVID-19 is an entirely different matter, and a very complicated one. I kinda sorta think I know what 'is.' I am old and mature enough to know that none of us are really all that good with 'what ifs.'

What ifs? Haha, ok, I thought you were trying to be BS-free in here, but we'll go ahead and give Trump a pass on his Covid leadership & response.

Most US presidents seem to have a pretty limited ability to fuck things up or change things for the better. To claim that it doesn't matter all that much who's got the job seems fairly uncontroversial to me. It was the adding of the "right now" that got me taking your bait. Much more than anyone I can remember, this now thankfully lame duck one transformed his job from leader of a nation to leader of a cult, and I think that does matter. When you can do stuff like actively mobilising millions of people to disregard science it seems like a potentially dangerous thing to me. When you can "fake news"-away anything you want, and get away with it nearly every time, it feels like a pretty fundamental shift in things.
The bar has been lowered so far in such a short space of time. Regardless of actual legislative powers I think that stuff still matters quite a lot.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 11/08/20 7:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Luuuc wrote:

OK, so any other prez would have had equal disdain for the available medical/scientific expertise at hand and allowed 230k+ Americans to die. Just to use one example.
Given how big of an outlier the USA has been with this, I find that hard to believe.
Or are you claiming that Trump had no influence on what happened?
Or are you just saying that Covid isn't a big deal?


I said what I said and I certainly didn't say what you're asking there. And nothing I actually said is any less true, valid, or relevant than it was before you wrote this response.

COVID-19 is an entirely different matter, and a very complicated one. I kinda sorta think I know what 'is.' I am old and mature enough to know that none of us are really all that good with 'what ifs.'

What ifs? Haha, ok, I thought you were trying to be BS-free in here, but we'll go ahead and give Trump a pass on his Covid leadership & response.

Most US presidents seem to have a pretty limited ability to fuck things up or change things for the better. To claim that it doesn't matter all that much who's got the job seems fairly uncontroversial to me. It was the adding of the "right now" that got me taking your bait. Much more than anyone I can remember, this now thankfully lame duck one transformed his job from leader of a nation to leader of a cult, and I think that does matter. When you can do stuff like actively mobilising millions of people to disregard science it seems like a potentially dangerous thing to me. When you can "fake news"-away anything you want, and get away with it nearly every time, it feels like a pretty fundamental shift in things.
The bar has been lowered so far in such a short space of time. Regardless of actual legislative powers I think that stuff still matters quite a lot.

Need a "like" button.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 11/09/20 6:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wow you guys are absolutely the Michael Jordans of wasting someone's time.

Of all the flaming hot political fireballs I've shot off these last few days... THIS is what has got your hackles up? lol. Seriously?

I SAID (already, but this time let me SPELL. IT. OUT. FOR. YOU. GENIUSES.)

It was a c'est la vie'sh afterthought wrap-up thought offered for people here who might be feeling overly anxious about what was going on with this election.

IT WAS A KINDNESS.

Shocked

But taken seriously for analysis... which is NOT something I ever thought I would need to do... BECAUSE there is a cultural literacy that I ASSUME exists among the people who read this board... lesson learned there... but... you might be surprised to know...

It is NOT an original thought by me. It is an actual THING in American political thought that predates my awareness of it by decades. Google it. The idea that it doesn't matter very much who the president of the United States is is related to that other idea which is also a thing in American political thought and that is that both political parties are the same. It has been suggested at some point by everyone from academics, journalists and politicians to musicians, artists, and poets.

Okay? Let's continue.

This might also surprise you.

These are both ideas that I have argued against for almost as long as I've been aware of them. Argued HERE. I'm sure I've voiced disagreement with pilight when he would suggest that the parties were basically the same and I KNOW I have argued passionately against the idea that it doesn't much matter who is president at any particular time.

Now, it is true... I am NOT arguing that side of this any more, and certainly not about the tweedle-dee tweedle-dum political parties. I am and will be arguing the very complicated case, as best I can, that there is essentially no great relevant difference between the two major American political parties. This is a conclusion I've come to in my own way, from my own perspective, as a product of my own lifelong experience observing American politics and LIVING with the RESULTS of our American political system.

That it doesn't matter who is president most of the time is something that in so many contexts has proven to be demonstrably true as it has already not mattered who was president so often in the last 30 years. Is it a granularly specific truism in every manner of speaking? Of course not.

But. In this instance. In MY usage of it here in this thread. It was meant as a kindness. From me. To whomever might need to hear it here on the board. I just threw it out there.

But Trump. OMG. TRUMP!!!!! AHHHHHhhhhhhhh!!!!!

Incredible.



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20494



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PostPosted: 11/09/20 6:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
It was the adding of the "right now" that got me taking your bait.


"Right now" is when I thought people might have needed to hear the thought.

But yeah. Obviously I forgot about Trump. Shocked



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20494



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PostPosted: 11/09/20 8:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Luuuc wrote:

OK, so any other prez would have had equal disdain for the available medical/scientific expertise at hand and allowed 230k+ Americans to die. Just to use one example.
Given how big of an outlier the USA has been with this, I find that hard to believe.
Or are you claiming that Trump had no influence on what happened?
Or are you just saying that Covid isn't a big deal?


I said what I said and I certainly didn't say what you're asking there. And nothing I actually said is any less true, valid, or relevant than it was before you wrote this response.

COVID-19 is an entirely different matter, and a very complicated one. I kinda sorta think I know what 'is.' I am old and mature enough to know that none of us are really all that good with 'what ifs.'

What ifs? Haha, ok, I thought you were trying to be BS-free in here, but we'll go ahead and give Trump a pass on his Covid leadership & response.

Most US presidents seem to have a pretty limited ability to fuck things up or change things for the better. To claim that it doesn't matter all that much who's got the job seems fairly uncontroversial to me. It was the adding of the "right now" that got me taking your bait. Much more than anyone I can remember, this now thankfully lame duck one transformed his job from leader of a nation to leader of a cult, and I think that does matter. When you can do stuff like actively mobilising millions of people to disregard science it seems like a potentially dangerous thing to me. When you can "fake news"-away anything you want, and get away with it nearly every time, it feels like a pretty fundamental shift in things.
The bar has been lowered so far in such a short space of time. Regardless of actual legislative powers I think that stuff still matters quite a lot.


You, my friend, have unwittingly taken ALL the bait.. that is in the very big pond that lies between us. You sound like CNN. You are echoing the perspectives that emanate 24/7 from American corporate cable news outlets. Just like someone who echoes FOX News or Rush Limbaugh, what you say has a DNA. Not saying you yourself are watching CNN or MSNBC, but the information strain that comes from those news sources is what is coming out of you.

I sit here in my American home, in my American city, with my American wife, and we talk about all this with our American family members and American friends scattered around the United States of America... as if our lives depend on it... and we gather our thoughts, perspectives, and what we are seeing and experiencing... and we try to make sense of it all, we certainly don't always agree (who the fuck agrees with me?) but we try to reconcile what we see and experience with what we are being told by our political leadership and by the news media.

I'm sorry, but you simply do not know this country. I can tell you something about America, you will accept it, process it, and then, poof, it will be on a shelf in your head somewhere never to be thought of again. But if I told you that thing then it is probably some essential wiring about America and Americans. It might be quickly forgotten by someone outside of America but it might be as fundamental as mud here.

Yet people can live here all their lives and still not really know their own country. We are cursed, as everyone here would agree, even you, with low-information fellow citizens. But that's not just the ignorant and uneducated and it's not simply 'low' information that is the problem. Wrong information. Incomplete information. A WORLD of information that is not openly shared. We just learned a couple years ago in the NYTimes that, 50 years on from forced busing 'ended' school segregation, NYC had not yet integrated their public schools. That's kind of a big piece of information about America. But you know what? A tiny sliver of Americans probably heard about it or read it.

Look at the private school question thread I started here a couple of years ago. Look how we Americans shared information and how the thread slowly evolved and the picture of the impact of private schools in America became clearer to all of us. Not before that. We don't get that kind of stuff from our news media. We learned from each other.

It is NOT easy to come to an awareness or understanding about what is and has been happening to the idea of America in the last 50 years and the actual on-the-ground reality of it.

Howee puts forth Chris Hedges. He is excellent. I would and have suggested Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti for their daily take on things. There's no excuse at this point to be parroting the perspectives that have been blaring from CNN, MSNBC, or late night comedy shows. The truth is out there. I'm sorry, but you don't have it. You're not alone here. It's probably going to take most of the people here a minute to come down from the past four years. And we can only hope Trump doesn't manifest all of our darkest fears at some point in the next three months.

But this country was a failed mess before Trump and COVID. Our political system had failed us long before Trump and COVID. And the reputation of our news media has been subterranean and well-earned long before Trump and COVID.

This place (Rebkell's) is a 'woke' echo chamber. Listen to people who don't agree with you.

Tomorrow I'm going to respond to your perspective on Trump/COVID/America, which I don't agree with. Hope you read it.

Cool



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PostPosted: 11/09/20 9:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm mildly insulted that after all these years of both of us hanging out here, you think my taking of the bait was unwitting.
Anyhoo, yeah of course I'll read it.

Oh, and of course I don't know America. I don't claim to, but I don't think it matters all that much with regard to this particular sub-topic, which IMO is more about human nature in general than US specifics.



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PostPosted: 11/09/20 4:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
To highlight how rare it is for an incumbent president to lose:

I've voted in every election since I turned 18. Starting with Clinton in 1996. Of the 7 presidential elections I've voted in, this is the first one ever in which the incumbent lost.


It just went from 0% to 25% of the time, since you voted with an incumbent up for re-election. But in the 20 years before you started voting it happened 75% of the time if we count Ford and 66% of the time if we don't. I think the key is the economy, which presidents really don't know how to control, but must be in good shape. The late 70's that did Carter in were very high inflation and either due to or in addition to oil prices going way up and shortages at gas stations. Bush Sr. had an 8 month recession in 1990/1991 that I somehow remember as being around at the time of the election. I guess it was because "It's the economy stupid" was a Clinton campaign phrase and they may have pushed that it was longer or recovery was poor . But Bush also had Ross Perot taking a number of votes.


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PostPosted: 11/12/20 12:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Apparently Trump's cries for money to fund his legal pursuits of a fraud election are a way for HIM to profit from scamming his unsuspecting followers.

Quote:
The fine print on Trump’s fundraising solicitations makes his intentions clear. The funds are going to a new Trump “leadership PAC” called Save America (60%) and the Republican National Committee campaign account (40%) — with funds only going to Trump and RNC legal expense accounts if a particular donor has already given the maximum allowable amounts to Save America ($5,000) and the RNC campaign account ($35,500). This looks like a good old-fashioned bait and switch. Leadership PACs like Save America are notorious slush funds, raising money under higher limits than candidate committees and subject to fewer restrictions on how the money is spent.

And Trump isn't the only one!
Quote:
But the gravy train rolls full steam ahead, with the RNC and other Republican Party leaders jumping on to fleece their own supporters in the name of Trump’s legal challenges. South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem, for example, is telling supporters that “President Trump needs our support while the far-left Dems declare a victory for Biden before all the votes are counted” and asks them to “please chip in what you can right now to show President Trump that he has our continued support for the fight of his life.” But Noem is apparently depositing these contributions into her own campaign account, not into a Trump legal expense fund. I expect we’ll see GOP politicians all over the country follow this same game plan.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/11/12/trump-damages-democracy-turns-profit-false-election-claims-column/6239950002/



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