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IM in OC



Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 752
Location: Orange County, CA


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PostPosted: 09/18/20 3:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
full disclosure I think PX should keep Griner

but I will come up with some outside the box trades for her anyway

version two is the big BG trade ideas

#1

BG to Dallas for Sabally pick #3 and Dallas' first round pick in 22 (Could see instead of 1st in 22 Thorton, Harrison, KLS or Ndour but not sure it works with cap)

(Dallas might say too high but BG is a generational player I think they have to include Sabally as the high potential option and the lottery pick and the future pick PX can't take on too much salary the 22 pick also gives PX two picks in in a strong 22 draft to reload after DT retires to start a quick rebuild around SDS and Sabally. Dallas has to bet on itself with Ogunbowale and Griner as not being a lottery team, and maybe being able to pull a 3rd free agent like Ogwumike, Ch. Parker to create a big three (or Zahui B if all else fails).

PX
SDS/Hartley
DT/Peddy
SWK/Cunningham
Sabally/Smith
Turner/Vaughn

pick #3 Davis, Mack. Onyenwere

pick #6 McDonalrd, Evans, Mangakahia

PX becomes a bigger/better version of what they were running the 2nd half of this season with a more potent small ball line up

Dallas
Ogunbowale, [b]Gray
, Thorton, Harrison, Griner
Harris, Gray, KLS, Alarie, NDour, pick 5, pick 7
also room for a free agent to take it to another level. Swap out Harrison for Ogwumike and I am sure Dallas fans will be happy
[/b].


You list Gray twice. Did you mean Mabrey, or did she go in a trade you previously made?


johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 75



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 3:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
PX was pursing Charles in trade last season, Charles is a free agent now, is there any financial universe where PX could sign Charles (it would send Turner to the bench but if Charles and Griner each play 27-30 minutes it leaves 20-25 for Turner)

clearly can only afford 11

SDS/Hartley
DT/Peddy
SWK/Cunningham
Charles/Smith
Griner/Turner

pick #6

This would obviously be an all in on 21 (maybe DT's last season) kind of strategy


I feel like Charles will just resign with WAS. She wants a chip and I think, if I'm her, I'd stick with EDD and Coach Thibault.


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 5760



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 3:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

IM in OC wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
full disclosure I think PX should keep Griner

but I will come up with some outside the box trades for her anyway

version two is the big BG trade ideas

#1

BG to Dallas for Sabally pick #3 and Dallas' first round pick in 22 (Could see instead of 1st in 22 Thorton, Harrison, KLS or Ndour but not sure it works with cap)

(Dallas might say too high but BG is a generational player I think they have to include Sabally as the high potential option and the lottery pick and the future pick PX can't take on too much salary the 22 pick also gives PX two picks in in a strong 22 draft to reload after DT retires to start a quick rebuild around SDS and Sabally. Dallas has to bet on itself with Ogunbowale and Griner as not being a lottery team, and maybe being able to pull a 3rd free agent like Ogwumike, Ch. Parker to create a big three (or Zahui B if all else fails).

PX
SDS/Hartley
DT/Peddy
SWK/Cunningham
Sabally/Smith
Turner/Vaughn

pick #3 Davis, Mack. Onyenwere

pick #6 McDonalrd, Evans, Mangakahia

PX becomes a bigger/better version of what they were running the 2nd half of this season with a more potent small ball line up

Dallas
Ogunbowale, [b]Gray
, Thorton, Harrison, Griner
Harris, Gray, KLS, Alarie, NDour, pick 5, pick 7
also room for a free agent to take it to another level. Swap out Harrison for Ogwumike and I am sure Dallas fans will be happy
[/b].


You list Gray twice. Did you mean Mabrey, or did she go in a trade you previously made?


Yeah one of the Grays is Mabrey


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 5760



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 3:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
PX was pursing Charles in trade last season, Charles is a free agent now, is there any financial universe where PX could sign Charles (it would send Turner to the bench but if Charles and Griner each play 27-30 minutes it leaves 20-25 for Turner)

clearly can only afford 11

SDS/Hartley
DT/Peddy
SWK/Cunningham
Charles/Smith
Griner/Turner

pick #6

This would obviously be an all in on 21 (maybe DT's last season) kind of strategy


I feel like Charles will just resign with WAS. She wants a chip and I think, if I'm her, I'd stick with EDD and Coach Thibault.


Washington might be having their own cap issues if everyone shows, they can probably afford Charles if they go 11 but who knows


shontay33



Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 366



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 4:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SCook wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I'm surprised there's no discontent about SDS. She turns the ball over for no reason way too often -- on the last possession vs. Minnesota, of course -- and is not much of a defender. With both her and DT in the backcourt, it's too easy for opposing teams to find one or the other to attack.

But she does play hard, it appears, though not that smart.


I believe it’s because people are looking at the success she did have after being out all last season. Also, she doesn’t have the most WNBA Playoff experience so I think people are giving her a pass. Plus, you know, trading BG seems to be everyone’s answer to all the problems.

Skylar’s lack of defensive ability has always been an issue and I don’t think Sandy is the coach that can develop her on that end. In my opinion, it’s my biggest issue with her. Sims owned the PG matchup and she just came back. Skylar needs to work on that and her decision making. She’s a hell of a scorer and can be a damn good play maker at times but she’s inconsistent and doesn’t show up.


If Phoenix would have tried to get a point guard, then maybe the conversation would be different. Skylar moves to the 2, DT at the 3.This makes me notice how January is missed because she did a decent job at the point.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 55099



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 5:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Griner staying at PHX is one of the easier calls, based on her feelings on PHX last season. She said something like PHX or no WNBA. I find that hard to believe because every superstar player wants to be in the WNBA. Might even be a requirement in their sponsorships. I think Griner is attached to PHX, at least until Taurasi retires.

Signed in 2021
Diggins $221,400
Griner $221,400
Hartley $190,550 (Active or deactivated with cap hit)

BTurner $58,710
ASmith $58,710
Cunningham $58,710
Total Signed $809,580

Unsigned
Taurasi $221,400 (Will she take less to help budget?)
Breland (LY $117,000)
Vaughn (LY $110,000?)
Coffey (LY $68,000)
Walker-Kimbrough (LY $60,875)
YTurner (LY $68,000)

Peddy $58,710
#6 pick $67,208
Total $1,156,940 for the 9 players bolded above.

$1,339,000 2021 Cap Limit
$1,156,940 For 9 players
$182,060 remaining budget

Since Hartley will likely be inactive for most if not all of 2021, that $182,060 should probably go towards 3 players. That would be an avg of $60,687/player.

Unless there are salary concessions made, it looks like PHX is priced out of bringing back Breland or Vaughn. Maybe they can get YTurner or SWK to sign cheap enough.

Peddy/#6 pick
Diggins/(Hartley)/SWK?
Taurasi/Cunningham
Turner/Smith
Griner/Cheap FA?



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myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 26949



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 8:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SCook wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I'm surprised there's no discontent about SDS. She turns the ball over for no reason way too often -- on the last possession vs. Minnesota, of course -- and is not much of a defender. With both her and DT in the backcourt, it's too easy for opposing teams to find one or the other to attack.

But she does play hard, it appears, though not that smart.


I believe it’s because people are looking at the success she did have after being out all last season. Also, she doesn’t have the most WNBA Playoff experience so I think people are giving her a pass. Plus, you know, trading BG seems to be everyone’s answer to all the problems.

Skylar’s lack of defensive ability has always been an issue and I don’t think Sandy is the coach that can develop her on that end. In my opinion, it’s my biggest issue with her. Sims owned the PG matchup and she just came back. Skylar needs to work on that and her decision making. She’s a hell of a scorer and can be a damn good play maker at times but she’s inconsistent and doesn’t show up.


overall I was not overly impressed with SDS. She had moments and even games where she was great, but also some games where she was an anchor. When Hartley was playing well it was possible to just play Hartley more when SDS was sucking, but afterward, it was harder to hide her deficiencies. OTOH it was fun to see how Peddy and Shatori came along and became useful. Sometimes, as a team, their three shooting was beautiful to see. With Griner back, and with Turner showing star power, that should be a powerful inside-outside team even with no changes.



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Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 1753
Location: Seattle, WA


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PostPosted: 09/18/20 11:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sort of a weird paradox with SDS. This was far & away her most efficient season yet from the field (above 47%), but it was also her worst season in turnovers (above 3 per game Confused) - this despite that she had a significantly better spread of talent to work with this season with Phoenix than she ever did with Dallas so she theoretically wouldn't have had to force things as much. Her TO numbers didn't even get better as the season wore on, though of course they became a different team literally halfway through the season in Griner's absence. With more roster stability next season she's more likely to have an easier time making good decisions with the ball... but we'll see.



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adamj95



Joined: 09 May 2014
Posts: 1900
Location: East Grand Forks, MN


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PostPosted: 09/23/20 9:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/muffinnxoxo/status/1308926347742412800?s=21

Anyone else see this on instagram?



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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 09/23/20 9:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some positive Merc news:

@PhoenixMercury wrote:
OFFICIAL: Mercury guard
@Breezyyy14 underwent successful knee surgery last Friday, Sept. 18, in Minneapolis. Hartley’s post-op therapy has already begun and the Mercury look forward to a full recovery for the 2021 season.

https://twitter.com/PhoenixMercury/status/1308492612890836993


On the not-so-positive side of things, there are rumours doing the rounds on social media atm regarding the personal reasons for BG leaving the wubble.
Being only rumours I won't link it but it's easy to find on twitter, and as expected with a sudden and mysterious departure, it's not a happy story. I hope she's ok.



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Iluvacc



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 3085



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PostPosted: 09/23/20 10:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

adamj95 wrote:
https://twitter.com/muffinnxoxo/status/1308926347742412800?s=21

Anyone else see this on instagram?


Shocked Shocked Shocked


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 6017
Location: Underground


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PostPosted: 09/23/20 10:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting that the person writing this keeps saying "when we drafted her," comparing Griner's behavior to a previous time. Sounds like someone who has been with the Mercury for a long time.



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Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 1753
Location: Seattle, WA


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PostPosted: 09/23/20 10:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That story is 50 shades of crazy, but it's so elaborate & specific that I have to believe the meat & bones of it at least are true. Shocked The taking down of merch makes it seem like the organization has already(?) made up its mind about her not being on the team next year. And even if they haven't, it could still be quite the set-up for the incoming free agency period that was already going to be another doozy. Exclamation

So much for that story about her dad being sick... Embarassed



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Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 22575
Location: London


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PostPosted: 09/23/20 10:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not saying I necessarily believe all of this, but when someone leaves for 'personal reasons' and they actively avoid saying anything else (Phoenix were very clear that they weren't going to talk about her any more once she left), you inevitably start to wonder what the hell happened. Always possible that it's a family illness or even something like depression - which would be particularly understandable in the bubble - but team and personality drama is inevitably going to be what people speculate about.

DeShields, similarly, left for 'personal reasons' (when they could've easily blamed her injuries) and there's been speculation there too.



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Admiral_Needa



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 10047
Location: Tiburon, CA


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PostPosted: 09/24/20 6:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Griner? Shocked






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Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 09/24/20 7:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Interesting that the person writing this keeps saying "when we drafted her," comparing Griner's behavior to a previous time. Sounds like someone who has been with the Mercury for a long time.



Kind of narrows it down. Only 2 names come to mind.



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WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: 09/24/20 8:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Iluvacc wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
https://twitter.com/muffinnxoxo/status/1308926347742412800?s=21

Anyone else see this on instagram?


Shocked Shocked Shocked


This does not surprise me, the Marijuana situation is nothing new . The whole giving it to a kid is what pisses me off. BG has all the talent in the world and im sure she will find a new home next season , but i hesitate to support this type of person on my team . Very Sad



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shontay33



Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 366



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 9:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Iluvacc wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
https://twitter.com/muffinnxoxo/status/1308926347742412800?s=21

Anyone else see this on instagram?


Shocked Shocked Shocked


This does not surprise me, the Marijuana situation is nothing new . The whole giving it to a kid is what pisses me off. BG has all the talent in the world and im sure she will find a new home next season , but i hesitate to support this type of person on my team . Very Sad


Based on what I have read, this source doesn't seem to be credible. The person is all over the place and seems "off" when they are talking about what happened. The person who wrote this took down their instagram page.


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: 09/24/20 10:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

shontay33 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Iluvacc wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
https://twitter.com/muffinnxoxo/status/1308926347742412800?s=21

Anyone else see this on instagram?


Shocked Shocked Shocked


This does not surprise me, the Marijuana situation is nothing new . The whole giving it to a kid is what pisses me off. BG has all the talent in the world and im sure she will find a new home next season , but i hesitate to support this type of person on my team . Very Sad


Based on what I have read, this source doesn't seem to be credible. The person is all over the place and seems "off" when they are talking about what happened. The person who wrote this took down their instagram page.


Ahhh I’d hope it’s not true thanks for the clarification.



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PickledGinger



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 2:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I mean, I'd be lying if I said that pot, booze and video games aren't helping me get through COVID, but the rest of the behavior is abominable, if true.


mercfan



Joined: 08 May 2013
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PostPosted: 09/24/20 3:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I love Brittney but it's going to be time to make some decisions soon. Turner was OUTSTANDING in that role down the stretch of the season and really gelled. It was everything we haven't seen from a Mercury player in years.

Griner has a ton of value right now and I could see some serious additions to Skylar in the back court or wing.

On the other hand, if Griner is ready to be here and ready to lead, I am ready to see it.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 09/24/20 3:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Also, even if other teams want her, she has to be willing to play somewhere else. If the 'whistleblower' is to be believed, she basically showed up this year to get the cash, so maybe she'll play anywhere for 221k, but who knows. I would imagine that even in the current climate, UMMC are paying her a lot more than that.



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PickledGinger



Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: 09/24/20 8:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Also, even if other teams want her, she has to be willing to play somewhere else. If the 'whistleblower' is to be believed, she basically showed up this year to get the cash, so maybe she'll play anywhere for 221k, but who knows. I would imagine that even in the current climate, UMMC are paying her a lot more than that.


I mean, Phoenix doesn't necessarily have the most comfortable climate of any of the league's teams.


GEF34



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 13744
Location: Los Angeles


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PostPosted: 09/24/20 8:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Also, even if other teams want her, she has to be willing to play somewhere else. If the 'whistleblower' is to be believed, she basically showed up this year to get the cash, so maybe she'll play anywhere for 221k, but who knows. I would imagine that even in the current climate, UMMC are paying her a lot more than that.


Didn’t she say this past off season if she wasn’t playing for the Mercury she wasn’t going to play in the league.



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PostPosted: 09/27/20 1:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Also, even if other teams want her, she has to be willing to play somewhere else. If the 'whistleblower' is to be believed, she basically showed up this year to get the cash, so maybe she'll play anywhere for 221k, but who knows. I would imagine that even in the current climate, UMMC are paying her a lot more than that.


Didn’t she say this past off season if she wasn’t playing for the Mercury she wasn’t going to play in the league.


Yes, which is why Richyu said she has to be willing to play somewhere else.

Oh and the fan who posted the instagram was just on Liz Cambage's instagram live that she did with Alanna Smith today promoting the page. But apparently, Alanna stated that BG wasn't going to be traded and would be in Phoenix for many years.



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