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WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: 10/27/20 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
mavcarter wrote:
Cheyenne Parker reflects on career-best season: ‘I definitely have much further to go’

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports-saturday/2020/10/17/21514939/cheyenne-parker-reflects-on-career-best-season-i-definitely-have-much-further-to-go

Quote:
Does that mean she wants to return to the Sky for her seventh season?

‘‘Yeah, for sure,’’ Parker said. ‘‘It’s not anything that crossed my mind, leaving the Sky. I love this organization, I love the coach, the team, the players. You’re gonna have to ask me to leave. That’s what it’s gonna take [for me to go].’’


Oh well

That gives Chicago the time it needs to free up the money to pay her.

NY and Dallas need to move on


Tell that too , Conn & Atlanta last season ! Cool $$$$ Speak



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mavcarter
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PostPosted: 10/27/20 1:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Tell that too , Conn & Atlanta last season ! Cool $$$$ Speak


Good point, then again none of those players came out publicly and stated they were committed to their franchises beforehand. But there is a lot of time from here to free agency..



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 10/27/20 2:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Tell that too , Conn & Atlanta last season ! Cool $$$$ Speak


Good point, then again none of those players came out publicly and stated they were committed to their franchises beforehand. But there is a lot of time from here to free agency..


Courtney Williams sort of kind of did , but then got low balled and felt disrespected.



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mavcarter
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PostPosted: 10/27/20 2:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Courtney Williams sort of kind of did.


You’re right.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 11/17/20 10:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iJlNlM_nVzQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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Cooper2009



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PostPosted: 11/17/20 10:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iJlNlM_nVzQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


I love that she’s speaking out about it. While of course smoking can harm an athlete long term with regards to their career, cut the crap with these kids. Asking her if she’s a drug dealer? Seriously? Would a drug lord have said yes?



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Shades



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PostPosted: 12/12/20 10:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-sky-and-wnba/2020/12/12/22163757/after-five-months-away-home-coach-sky-james-wade-finds-little-surprises-when-returns-family-wnba

Quote:
The same issues that hurt the Sky in 2019 plagued them last season. Their defense lacked energy and effort at times, and they struggled to stay healthy during the accelerated season.

The Sky plan to be aggressive in free agency, looking to add frontcourt depth and a backup point guard who complements Courtney Vandersloot and Gabby Williams.

‘‘Right now, we’re re-evaluating everyone, our whole entire team,’’ Wade said. ‘‘Of course, I’m not going to go off on the rails and say, ‘Yeah, I’m gonna try to trade this person.’ You know who our team is built around . . . but we’re going to try to get better.’’


How aggressive can they be without moving the more expensive players?



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 12/14/20 3:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Vandesloot is the race car engine that propels the Chicago Sky. She makes this team zoom at warp speed. Whatever changes Wade decides to make, Sloot will not be traded.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 12/14/20 11:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Even though they dumped KLS (#4 pick in 2019), the Sky are still logged-jam at the 6’ utility forward position (DeShields, GWilliams, Cooper). This is a problem the Liberty want to have but is it good for the Sky?

It might be a good time to sell high on Copper (set to make $165,000 in 2021) if they can get a post player they like in return. Who would they like? Which team is overloaded in the post position?



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 12/14/20 11:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

On paper, Chicago is actually deep at the post position: Dolson, Parker, Stevens, Hebard, and Mavunga. Hebard (PER 17.3) and Mavunga (PER 17.1) are well above average for your 4th and 5th post players. It’s a nice mix of veterans and young players with a range of different skill sets. The problem is affording Parker – who says she wants to come back – as well as keeping Dolson and Stevens healthy. There are things Chicago can do to retain Parker for this year, but they’ll need a super cheap bench (includes replacing Mavunga) and the cap squeeze will probably resurface in 2022. It really comes down to how much Wade believes he can accomplish this year with his core players. There are already rumblings that Stevens won’t be healthy enough to start the season, so that would make keeping Parker a greater priority.

I agree it’s probably time to sell high on Copper. Assuming a healthy DeShields reclaims her starting job, Copper will likely lose value as a bench player. Not only will her numbers go down based on fewer minutes, but historically she hasn’t played as well coming off the bench. Unloading her now will get Chicago the most value and allow them to easily re-sign Parker. What they seek to get back for Copper is the more interesting question. If Chicago retains Parker, do they really need more post help? Will they be able to adequately replace Copper with a cheaper free agent or their 1st Round pick? Alternatively, the Sky can keep Copper and let Parker walk instead. Or they can do both and substantially reshuffle the deck.



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PostPosted: 12/14/20 1:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The only place you're finding that 17 PER for Mavunga is over 5 games for Indiana in 2020. The real number is quite a bit lower. Then with Hebard being solid enough but limited and young, and both Stevens and Dolson constant injury question marks, it definitely looks a lot thinner. They really have to make every effort to bring Parker back (or a similar-level replacement).

The problem with trading Copper right now is how uncertain things seem to be with DeShields. They'll know more from within the organisation, but it all seemed like such a mess with her injuries and then largely-unexplained exit from the bubble in 2020. So can you trade Copper without really knowing what's going on with DeShields? And you don't want to trade DeShields right now unless forced to because it'd probably be selling low. Also, Quigley's 34. Is the vision Copper/DeShields together on the wing pretty soon?

I think they try to squeeze Parker in, bring back basically everybody, and run it back for one more year. Then most of the roster is out of contract next offseason, so lots of things can be reassessed and reshaped.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 12/14/20 2:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mavunga was injured when they acquired her, so I didn't think she even played for Chicago during the regular season. I need to consolidate the double entries in my file. But you're right, she performed poorly for the Sky. I don't know what the official number is, but weighted by minutes her PER would be 11.5. That makes it more painless for Chicago to cut Mavunga and replace her with an ultra-cheap player. I believe that will save roughly 12k -- more money they can throw at Parker.

I also would have guessed that Chicago would bring back everybody for one more run. However, in that article, Wade sounded like he wanted to make changes. In order to do that, he has to drop salary somewhere. I know Chicago fans want to unload Dolson, but coming off a bad season that will be hard to do. Parker and Copper, on the other hand, are coming off career best seasons and are at their peak value.



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Aside from separately going on trial for murder and treason, Aaron Burr seemed like a pretty nice guy.
Richyyy



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PostPosted: 12/14/20 3:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, it's gonna take losing someone one way or another to be 'aggressive' in free agency. Unless aggressive includes offering some vet the minimum to play backup point guard.

ETA: Basketball Reference does the PER work for you: https://www.basketball-reference.com/wnba/players/m/mavunst01w.html



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 12/14/20 6:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That's funny. I get my PER numbers from Basketball Reference, but from the team section. That's why I have separate entries for Mavunga. I forgot that the page for individual players also includes a total line for each year there are split results. I see that they came up with the same number as me (11.5), so weighting by minutes works or is at least a good estimate.



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Aside from separately going on trial for murder and treason, Aaron Burr seemed like a pretty nice guy.
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PostPosted: 12/14/20 10:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wade wants an upgrade with his post position and to improve the back up point guard position. If they trade both players whose names begin with an S then the Sky will have the money be aggressive during the 2021 free agency period.



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PostPosted: 12/14/20 11:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
If they trade both players whose names begin with an S then the Sky will have the money be aggressive during the 2021 free agency period.


LMAO.

I’m not even sure if Mavunga is worth anything. Maybe because she’s still cheap for a year a team might throw a third for a little front court depth but her ultimate value was being traded for a player that was hurt in a different state who was also an expiring contract.

Dolson would be fine as a back up, but she’s making too much money to not be a somewhat integral part of a team. The cap is going to be an issue next season because we’ve got too many 2018 draftees on the same damn team and they’re going to be due for six figure raises.

G. Williams - had a hot start, but came back down to earth like any logical Sky fan thought. Do you sell on her now while she’s still cheap for a pick next year if you plan on going with an 11 player roster?

Sloot/Quigley/Copper - they absolutely can’t go with this same trio on the wing if Wade is trying to win a championship. Awful defensively, and the offense doesn’t make up for it.

Running it back last season was a nice idea, but I think it’s time to do some sort of shifting. This team doesn’t defend enough on the perimeter, offense is nice and it’s cool to watch, but the Sky aren’t the only team with a high potent offense..



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 12/15/20 7:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mav, I don't care if either player is worth anything. I just want to dump some salaries to give the Sky some financial flexibility.



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mavcarter
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PostPosted: 12/15/20 11:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
Mav, I don't care if either player is worth anything. I just want to dump some salaries to give the Sky some financial flexibility.


Got you. You can just cut Mavunga. Dolson is the one that’s going to be difficult, could maybe sweeten the pot by including the first rounder if the Sky are desperate, which I don’t see but who knows..



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PostPosted: 12/15/20 12:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't see how the Sky can move on from CVS and Quigley, which means they are committed to outscoring opponents rather than defending them.

Copper and DeShields could supply a little defense, if motivated, and keeping Parker gives you this starting lineup:

CVS
Quigley
Copper/DeShields
Parker
Dolson

which is a competent group. Cut Gillespie, Conde and Mavunga and go with 11, and you should have cap room for the first-round draft pick.

Granted, the chances of this group winning it all are low, but there is a chance, especially if DeShields bounces back and Parker continues to improve. So I think it's one year too early to back up the truck ... roll with this group one more season, hope for a hot streak in the playoffs and maybe everything falls into place.

The alternative is to just give up on this season (Dolson and DeShields will not bring much in return right now) and let the window slam shut on CVS and Quigley.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 12/15/20 12:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, however much they may say they're going to be aggressive in free agency, it wouldn't be a big surprise if at least 8, maybe 9, of the eventual roster are already under contract with the Sky. 10 and 11 would likely be Parker and the first-round pick.

Of course, if something's happening behind the scenes like DeShields asking out, that could blow things up.



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PostPosted: 12/15/20 12:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When you run it back for the fourth straight season with the same personnel and no Finals appearances or even close it, you’re putting way too much stock into everything just flowing smoothly like a fairytale. Health was a concern last year, and defense has been a concern since Fowles jump shipped.

If Seattle or Las Vegas aren’t able to retain a key free agent or two, then maybe it’s fine to run it back. If LA doesn’t have a strong free agency, which I doubt, then cool.

But I just don’t see how Wade looks at the depth chart and 100% believes the health would be 100% and the defense will improve enough.

As far as DeShields not being worth much, I’m not sure how we’re defining much in this scenario. A prime, All-WNBA member is worth something..



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 12/15/20 3:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The WNBA is growing up we actually have decent players who contracts are to expensive to find an actual trading partner to the point where sweeteners might be offered (that is such an NBA type of problem to have).

I like both Dolson and Copper

If Chicago wants to move on from their money so they can max out Ch. Parker and keep it flexible for next seasons RFA (Deshields, Gabby, Stevens) this is what I have come up with

very few teams have a need for Dolson at the money she is at

If Atl feels it is a decent big away from the playoffs they could swap cheaper bigs
K. Brown
Brewer
or try to low ball a little further with pick 16

NY seems so far from competing that the slight improvement that Dolson would add is probably not needed at this time and if they are willing to go 175K for Dolson they could probably just stay in house and get Zahui B to stay (probably for a little less) that and helping Chicago out makes poaching Ch. Parker impossible with that said I still think a two headed center of Stokes/Dolson would probably be the best center combo NY has had in a long time

NY could probably offer any of the borderline going to get cut anyway sophomores
Odom, Shook, maybe Willoughby or Walker
or pick 17

I am not sure any other team has the need combined with the cap space to make an offer for Dolson
maybe Minny could offer its 2022 2nd round pick or if they already given up on MHH that could work Dolson backing up Fowles isn't a horrible option just kind of expensive for a 10-15 minute a night player but a Dantas, Shepard, Fowles, Dolson front court with Collier playing some PF as well seems decent.

Copper?
I think Copper has more value than Dolson but there are more wings than big bodies in the league many teams have something similar either as good or cheaper.
The biggest prize I could see Copper pulling of would be the #4 pick from Indy
Indy has similar sized wings in Burke and Vivians, but if Indy wants to make a move from the lottery into the playoffs I could see them thinking a in their career prime SF might help them take a step forward more than the fourth lottery pick (right now pick #4 is someone like Onyenwere, Westbrook, McDonald Mack) Indy also has two high second round picks so turning the lottery pick into a starter and using the 2nd round pick to fill out spots 11 and 12 seems reasonable.

Wheeler, Mitchell, Copper, Cox, McCowan
Allemand, Mitchell, Vivians, Burke, Achonwa
one of Dupree or Lavender
two of the two 2nd round pick and Doyle
seems like a team that could finish 6-8

Indy could also just try to swap cheaper wings Burke or Vivians for Copper considering Chicago probably isn't coming from a position of strength but even though I can already hear the Indy fans saying hell no, I don't think pick 4 is too out of line

the other teams I could see Copper being a good fit with (LA, Seattle, Washington, Conn) all seem to be facing their own cap issues and have decent players at the same position.

I would be happy with Copper in NY but we are over flowing with wings and again helping Chicago solve its money problems for Ch. Parker under cuts our ability to poach Parker with a Max deal and a chance to play in her hometown.

If that is off the table and Chicago is looking at moving Copper as a partial salary dump then I am sure we could offer Walker or Willoughby, and depending on how much she is getting paid I would probably even consider Nurse (though one bad season does not a bad player make).

If I am Chicago I probably just try to shave all the money I can so I can fit Ch. Parker without cutting anyone (Does replacing Mavunga with Gillespie and offering Parker 175K fit under the cap?) Deshields, Williams and Stevens if all healthy and on board still give you room for internal growth, Hebard as well, add the #8 pick as the back up combo/PG (Evans, Slocum, Mangakahia) and a better result is probably possible

CVS/#8 (Evans, Slocum, Mangakahia0
Quigley/Copper
Deshields/Williams
Ch. Parker/Stevens/Gillespie
Dolson/Hebard


mavcarter
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PostPosted: 12/15/20 4:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
(Does replacing Mavunga with Gillespie and offering Parker 175K fit under the cap?)


Yes.



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PostPosted: 12/16/20 10:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To me, it just doesn't make sense to move on now. The draft is weak, and could get weaker if players go back to school; the trade value of veterans like Quigley is almost zero; and you can hope the poor play of Dolson and DeShields was due to the general weirdness.

And what direction can you go if you do break up the team? Tell the fans "We could have had an outside shot this year but now we're aiming for 2024?"



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 12/16/20 7:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree that Quigley has no tradability, but that's because she ain't goin' anywhere so long as she's still married to the leader of the team. Razz



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