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PickledGinger



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PostPosted: 02/24/21 4:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:

The Warriors won titles with a finishing lineup that never started -- and Andre Igoudala was a Finals MVP off the bench.

And as the old saying goes, if you want to know who the coach thinks her best players are, see who's on the floor at the end of a close game.


I can remember my dad telling me "it doesn't matter who starts, it matters who finishes" when I was a kid and it's always stuck with me.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/24/21 5:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
And as the old saying goes, if you want to know who the coach thinks her best players are, see who's on the floor at the end of a close game.


This is it exactly. For me, it's so obvious. Same for what her/his/their father said to PickledGinger.

Suppose I post this exact statement on every thread on this board after each of the next 500 times someone posts a projected starting lineup. And say: "Why don't you post what's more important: your projection on who's on the floor at the end of a close game?" How many times can I do this before I get permanently banned for repetition? Smile



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PostPosted: 02/24/21 6:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:


Walker averaged 19.7 ppg on .477/.451/.821 shooting. She made 2.4 three's per game. Willoughby averaged 19.2 ppg on .452/.416/.871 shooting. She was the top scorer among all P5 seniors. Throw in Sabrina, and I'm not sure how much more skill you could find coming out of college last year. The last 3 picks -- Jones, Shook, Odom -- were intended as defensive selections. Defense requires skill too. As it turns out, Jones had the best overall year. It bears repeating that conditions last season were off-the-charts abnormal. I know Shook didn't have access to a basket for shooting practice from the time Louisville shut down until the Liberty gathered in Brooklyn. That was four months without practice for a 3Pt shooter. Kia Nurse was occasionally able to shoot in a neighbor's backyard. Who knows if the hoop was even hung at regulation height? The two players who did venture out to use professional facilities -- Walker and Durr -- both contracted COVID. Then, once in the Wubble, teams had to share practice facilities -- being slotted in for limited hours -- and they also had to reduce practice time because teams played 3 games a week. There were no practice players, so fatigue and injury became bigger obstacles. While some teams adapted well, it's not difficult to imagine a squad with 10 new players -- 7 of them rookies -- having the hardest time adjusting.


Completely agree. It just isn't said enough, or strongly enough, what a horrible situation all the WNBA players, all the New York Liberty players, but especially the many Liberty rookies were in last season. Harsh judgments about those rookies based on that terrible situation and that very limited sample of games are seriously wrong.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 02/24/21 7:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

On Whitcomb starting. IMO there’s no chance she’s going to start.


Different worlds we live in. Had Whitcomb performed at the same level and efficiency she did with Seattle last season for that New York team that lived and died with the 3 but couldn't hit the broad side of the border wall...she would have been the team's leading scorer. Jones and Willoughby are solid but they can't come close to touching Whitcomb as an outside shooter at this point, and that is why she will be more valuable to their system and get her starter minutes, even if off the bench.


I don’t envision her getting starter’s minutes. If you took out Whitcomb’s top THREE games last year her 3 point % drops to .288 for the entire season. Prior to that she’s never been at or over 40% in a season. She’s the ultimate streak shooter. I love her and she’s a good player. But Jones is the better of the two in my opinion. Jones got nearly all her offense by herself last year, which has to count for something too.



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Last edited by NYL_WNBA_FAN on 02/24/21 7:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/24/21 7:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I don’t envision her getting starter’s minutes. If you took out Whitcomb’s top THREE games last year her 3 point % drops to .288 for the entire season. Prior to that she’s never been at or over 40% in a season. She’s the ultimate streak shooter. I love her and she’s a good player. But Jones is the better of the two without a doubt. Jones got nearly all her offense by herself last year, which has to count for something too.


I don't agree that Jones is the better player... so far. But, as discussed in earlier posts, Jones was a rookie in a terrible situation.And often was playing point guard for the first time in ages. She certainly can get better and possibly MUCH better. I will be delighted to be proven wrong.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 02/24/21 7:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For all I know, Whitcomb could shoot .450 from 3 this year too. The Libs’ system is probably going to be good for her and stranger things have happened. And I really, really like both Whitcomb and Jaz. I think Whitcomb is underrated as a defender and off the bounce. But Sami is also not really a good rebounder and doesn’t see the floor well as a passer. I think Jaz is a way better rebounder and more creative both for herself and others. I’d also expect a year 2 upgrade in performance. Jaz is a nice defender too. Had some rookie growing pains but there’s tremendous upside there too.

But hey. It’s an opinion. What I should have said was in my opinion JJ is the better player. It’s not really right to say “without a doubt” Jaz is the better player. One person’s better is another person’s worst.

At the end of the day, whoever’s “better”, there’s one indisputable thing. Sami’s entire WNBA career has featured extreme peaks and valleys shooting the ball. It’s hard to count on those kinds of players to give you 25-30 consistent minutes regularly. In my view at least, those players are perfectly suited to come off the bench and play extended minutes on the nights when they are hitting everything.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/24/21 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
For all I know, Whitcomb could shoot .450 from 3 this year too. The Libs’ system is probably going to be good for her and stranger things have happened. And I really, really like both Whitcomb and Jaz. I think Whitcomb is underrated as a defender and off the bounce. But Sami is also not really a good rebounder and doesn’t see the floor well as a passer. I think Jaz is a way better rebounder and more creative both for herself and others. I’d also expect a year 2 upgrade in performance. Jaz is a nice defender too. Had some rookie growing pains but there’s tremendous upside there too.

But hey. It’s an opinion. What I should have said was in my opinion JJ is the better player. It’s not really right to say “without a doubt” Jaz is the better player. One person’s better is another person’s worst.

At the end of the day, whoever’s “better”, there’s one indisputable thing. Sami’s entire WNBA career has featured extreme peaks and valleys shooting the ball. It’s hard to count on those kinds of players to give you 25-30 consistent minutes regularly. In my view at least, those players are perfectly suited to come off the bench and play extended minutes on the nights when they are hitting everything.


Ironically, I've felt that Jones might be better suited to be a terrific spark off the bench. But, for me, the crucial thing about this discussion is that Whitcomb is likely to be who she's been. Perhaps this new situation with the Liberty will allow her to become somewhat better. Surely no guarantee on that. I question strong statements on behalf of Jones, just as I'd question strong attacks on her. Way too soon, in my view, for definitive judgments. But I hope your view of her is on the mark.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 02/24/21 8:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I just foresee a year 2 upgrade of her performance. I feel like her set of skills tends to lend itself to improvement. Natural skill along with intangibles, that sort of thing. Especially with an improved roster.

We will see. I’m kind of partial. Jones was my favorite Libs player last year. I loved the fire and never-say-die attitude. I also appreciated that she played with supreme confidence even when playing out of position.

And finally I also thought she developed as the year went on. More types of moves to the basket. Better court awareness. To me, all signs that improvement should continue this season.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/24/21 8:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I just foresee a year 2 upgrade of her performance. I feel like her set of skills tends to lend itself to improvement. Natural skill along with intangibles, that sort of thing. Especially with an improved roster.

We will see. I’m kind of partial. Jones was my favorite Libs player last year. I loved the fire and never-say-die attitude. I also appreciated that she played with supreme confidence even when playing out of position.

And finally I also thought she developed as the year went on. More types of moves to the basket. Better court awareness. To me, all signs that improvement should continue this season.


It's quite reasonable to expect a year 2 upgrade for many rookies under normal conditions. Given the situation that Jones and the team's non-Sabrina rookies (including Walker) faced last season, some of them certainly should be better in year 2. And Jones certainly showed promise. More reasonable to expect that upgrade from her than others.

It seems possible to me that playing with Sabrina could be a HUGE boost for Jones.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 02/25/21 10:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The most difficult part of projecting development is guessing when improvement will stop. Some players are who they are at 18; others are adding things at 31 -- and as far as I know, there's no real way to tell which players fall into which group. You can guess a little: A hard worker with a high basketball IQ might be a candidate for improvement, but it's also possible she's already hit her ceiling; and a talented player who's relied on athleticism might have room to get better by finally starting to work on skills.



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Michelle89



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PostPosted: 02/26/21 6:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sami was always playing behind Loyd. So there were never a lot of minutes for her. Having to perform in limited minutes is not easy thats why it was good that she also focussed on being an energizer bunny and doing all the little things. Bringing other things then just shooting.

So im interested to see how she will do when she gets more minutes and a bigger role.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/26/21 9:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
Sami was always playing behind Loyd. So there were never a lot of minutes for her. Having to perform in limited minutes is not easy thats why it was good that she also focussed on being an energizer bunny and doing all the little things. Bringing other things then just shooting.

So im interested to see how she will do when she gets more minutes and a bigger role.


At her age, it's quite possible that Whitcomb will simply continue to be the player she's been. But we know, in any professional sport, that here and there a player simply moving to a new team and situation does significantly better than before. This could be one of those examples--for the reason you've suggested and others. We'll see. Unlike some others here, I like the decision of Kolb and Hopkins to add Whitcomb.



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Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 02/27/21 5:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Whoever Whitcomb's Agent is,
they deserve a big fat bonus this year !

Just saying



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johnjohnW



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PostPosted: 03/01/21 6:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.netsdaily.com/2021/2/28/22305765/minor-mystery-solved-report-indicates-tsai-paid-low-eight-figures-for-new-york-liberty

Quote:
[S]ports bankers estimate the 2019 sale of a bigger-market team — the New York Liberty — sold in the $10 million to $14 million range. Brooklyn Nets owner Joe Tsai now owns the team.


The article does mention that the price likely includes team debt.


Randy



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PostPosted: 03/01/21 8:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib Fan wrote:
Whoever Whitcomb's Agent is,
they deserve a big fat bonus this year !

Just saying


It would be interesting to see a list of players agents. It would nice to see if we can correlate that players that signed "team friendly" deals (Sykes, Dantas, etc) with the ones who arguably got overpaid (Whitcomb, Powers, Hartley, etc.)


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PostPosted: 03/01/21 9:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sami's agent is Sammy Wloszczowski of SIG Sports
https://sigsports.com/wnba/



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PostPosted: 03/01/21 10:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Whitcomb just signed with Galatasaray, by the way, if New York fans want to catch some of her games overseas.



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PostPosted: 03/06/21 11:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just realized I should have posted this weeks ago. Jocelyn Willoughby is running a book club with a focus on social issues, "Read What You Sow," for Cafe Con Libros, an intersectional feminist bookstore in Brooklyn's Prospect Heights neighborhood. Quite admirable, in my view, that Ms. Willoughby is doing this.

https://www.cafeconlibrosbk.com/ny-liberty



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 03/06/21 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Just realized I should have posted this weeks ago. Jocelyn Willoughby is running a book club with a focus on social issues, "Read What You Sow," for Cafe Con Libros, an intersectional feminist bookstore in Brooklyn's Prospect Heights neighborhood. Quite admirable, in my view, that Ms. Willoughby is doing this.

https://www.cafeconlibrosbk.com/ny-liberty


Willoughby recently interviewed the first author, Brit Bennet.

https://liberty.wnba.com/video/read-what-you-sow-ig-live-chat-with-jocelyn-willoughby-brit-bennett/


Apparently, there is also a young soccer player who is doing the same thing. Here is an article about them both. It mentions that Clara Wu Tsai is a member of Jocelyn's book club. That's one way to protect your roster spot. Wink

https://sports.yahoo.com/womens-history-wnba-pro-soccer-players-book-club-140041009.html



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PostPosted: 03/06/21 1:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Willoughby recently interviewed the first author, Brit Bennet.

https://liberty.wnba.com/video/read-what-you-sow-ig-live-chat-with-jocelyn-willoughby-brit-bennett/


Apparently, there is also a young soccer player who is doing the same thing. Here is an article about them both. It mentions that Clara Wu Tsai is a member of Jocelyn's book club. That's one way to protect your roster spot. Wink

https://sports.yahoo.com/womens-history-wnba-pro-soccer-players-book-club-140041009.html


Thanks so much for posting the links to Willoughby's interview with the author and to this great news story.



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PostPosted: 03/06/21 3:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just began watching the video that root_thing posted. Jocelyn Willoughby describes herself right at the beginning as "a guard for the New York Liberty." Wow, I must be clueless about the numbers for positions. Hasn't Walt Hopkins decided that our players who might have been viewed as 2s or 3s should be playing 4 (what we old people used to call "power forward.") Isn't Willoughby a 4 in WaltBall? And she's saying she's a guard??? Smile



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PostPosted: 03/13/21 1:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I hope this link will work. Today (Saturday) is the one-year anniversary of the murder of Breonna Taylor. The New York Liberty has posted a one-minute video in which Jocelyn Willoughby and Kiah Stokes discuss that:

https://www.facebook.com/nyliberty/videos/490381028631625



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PostPosted: 03/13/21 1:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Excellent article from Sports Illustrated on the book club that Jocelyn Willouoghby is currently running in connection with the New York Liberty and Cafe con Libros, an intersectional feminist bookstore in the Prospect Heights neighborhood of Brooklyn.

https://www.si.com/wnba/2021/03/09/jocelyn-willoughby-read-what-you-sow-book-club



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willtalk



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PostPosted: 03/14/21 10:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="Bob Lamm"]
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

But heonically, I've felt that Jones might be better suited to be a terrific spark off the bench. But, for me, the crucial thing about this discussion is that Whitcomb is likely to be who she's been. Perhaps this new situation with the Liberty will allow her to become somewhat better. Surely no guarantee on that. I question strong statements on behalf of Jones, just as I'd question strong attacks on her. Way too soon, in my view, for definitive judgments. But I hope your view of her is on the mark.


For her to be a spark of the bench wouldn't she have to be playing for LA?



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PostPosted: 03/14/21 11:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

*rimshot*



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