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blaase22



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PostPosted: 02/12/21 4:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Randy wrote:
While I agree that Laney should play the 3, Catching was an elite wing defender and they ended up having her play the 4. Catching was bigger and more elite than Laney though.


Ironically enough, Catchings got rid of Laney to make room for Mavunga. Probably the oops moment of the preseason.


Wait till Laney proves she is not a one season bubble wonder.


Randy



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PostPosted: 02/12/21 4:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

blaase22 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Randy wrote:
While I agree that Laney should play the 3, Catching was an elite wing defender and they ended up having her play the 4. Catching was bigger and more elite than Laney though.


Ironically enough, Catchings got rid of Laney to make room for Mavunga. Probably the oops moment of the preseason.


Wait till Laney proves she is not a one season bubble wonder.


I have great faith that will be cry of (at least some of) the NY fans as soon as she has a few bad games. They are the definition of a "tough audience" and pride themselves on it. It's like the song "If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere, New York, New York."



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 02/12/21 5:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Myrtle would have you think that Durr is bed-ridden, while others think she’s poverty-strickened. Seems like she’s living like JayZ.


To paraphrase a meme, my expectations of your sense of decency and empathy were low, but HOLY F Shocked CK.



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PostPosted: 02/12/21 5:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
blaase22 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Randy wrote:
While I agree that Laney should play the 3, Catching was an elite wing defender and they ended up having her play the 4. Catching was bigger and more elite than Laney though.


Ironically enough, Catchings got rid of Laney to make room for Mavunga. Probably the oops moment of the preseason.


Wait till Laney proves she is not a one season bubble wonder.


I have great faith that will be cry of (at least some of) the NY fans as soon as she has a few bad games. They are the definition of a "tough audience" and pride themselves on it. It's like the song "If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere, New York, New York."


She went to Rutgers. She's probably heard it before, or at least some of it; I don't know if the overlap between the Liberty fan base and the Rutgers fan base is what it once was.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 02/12/21 10:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NY basketball fans appreciate defense though. She’ll bring that every night.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 02/12/21 10:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

New York Liberty Press Conference 2/12: Howard, Hopkins, and a bit of Kolb

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ztY9eLCFul0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Mostly discussion about defense. The first five names mentioned as a group were Howard, Laney, Whitcomb, Allen, and Sabrina. Maybe the starting five?



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 02/13/21 12:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here are three more videos from social media. Usually, these clips are simply sections of the longer YouTube video, but in this case they stand alone. The FaceBook embed codes aren't working for some reason (I tried 3 different browsers) so I'm just posting the links.

Hopkins
https://www.facebook.com/nyliberty/videos/226415549152182/

Kolb
https://www.facebook.com/nyliberty/videos/821124258438678/

Howard
https://www.facebook.com/nyliberty/videos/863288451191618/

Kolb said his two priorities were acquiring Howard and getting back that #6 pick. He said this draft has gotten a "bad rap" and that there are some pretty good players available.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/13/21 1:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Kolb said his two priorities were acquiring Howard and getting back that #6 pick. He said this draft has gotten a "bad rap" and that there are some pretty good players available.


Thanks for posting these three clips.

Kolb also said that "probably five" of last season's rookies will be on this year's team. From comments by Hopkins on the longer video (I didn't hear all of it), seems obvious that Sabrina will be joined by Jones, Willoughby, and Odom. I didn't hear anything said about Shook, but I'm thinking that Joyner Holmes has a major fight on her hands to make the team.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 02/13/21 1:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Kolb said his two priorities were acquiring Howard and getting back that #6 pick. He said this draft has gotten a "bad rap" and that there are some pretty good players available.

He's 100% right. The Liberty literally moved down five spots in a Draft where #1 and #6 (and the picks in between) are practically on the same level talent-wise, but got Howard in the process – excellent trading, assuming Howard returns to her 2019 form.

Bob Lamm wrote:
Kolb also said that "probably five" of last season's rookies will be on this year's team. From comments by Hopkins on the longer video (I didn't hear all of it), seems obvious that Sabrina will be joined by Jones, Willoughby, and Odom. I didn't hear anything said about Shook, but I'm thinking that Joyner Holmes has a major fight on her hands to make the team.

That signals to me that they're looking for another post player, whether it be a free-agent signing or a Draft pick. Still, as obvious as the need is for another post player, I can definitely see them throwing everyone another curveball (would it be at that point?) and drafting yet another wing. Laughing

Actually though... there are some point/lead guards that'll absolutely be there at #6. Especially if the post group gets decided on by Draft Day, that could be an interesting avenue to go down. Right now, it's really just Ionescu (who as we should know by now can always play off the ball) and Clarendon, and Clarendon's only signed through this year. Jones wasn't horrible in that role when they absolutely needed someone in it towards the end of last season, but I can't imagine they'll continue to explore that concept with her game – nor should they.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 02/13/21 2:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Given the obvious question mark over Durr, inevitable uncertainty over Johannes showing up, trading away Nurse (and Walker), Ionescu's own injury... it's amazing how quickly this roster has gone from "what are they going to do with all these off-guards!?" to "yeah, drafting a guard would be perfectly reasonable".



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 02/13/21 11:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NY has a net loss of 4 perimeter players since the end of last season:

6 lost or uncertain:
Kea -- injury
Durr – Covid
Johannes – status uncertain
Nurse – traded
Walker – traded
Talbot – traded

2 gained:
Laney – free agent
Whitcomb – trade (but free agent-ish)

What the Liberty could use is another reliable ball-handler who can back-up at point guard. A combo player like 6-0 Evina Westbrook would have been perfect because she can cover all three perimeter positions. However, Evina has fallen off a cliff in the last 5 games (5.8 ppg, 10-36 27.8 FG%, 1-19 5.3 3P%) and in a shorten season really needs to quickly right the ship or she’ll drop out of the 1st Round. I don’t know how Kolb/Hopkins feel about undersized players like 5-6 Evans and McDonald. The shortest players under their regime have been Clarendon and Kea – both officially listed at 5-9. I guess Arella Guirantes is a possibility, although I don’t view her as a point guard. She can be a little out of control at times but statistically is OK. Didi Richards doesn’t shoot 3s, so I’m not sure she fits. Kysre Gondrezick is another option. More of a shoot-first PG, but enough of a playmaker/ballhandler to be your 3rd PG. Also, for old Knicks fans, we'd get a bit of nostalgia because her uncle Glen played for the Knicks. I don't view Chelsea Dungee as any kind of PG, but she fits Hopkins's aggressive style of play. It wouldn't shock me if they took her.

That said, I'd still rather have a post. If the "Big 3 & Maybe" (Collier, Mack, Kuier, Austin) are gone, that would be very disappointing. Still, I might give Chelsey Perry or Jasmine Walker some serious consideration.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/13/21 11:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here's a puzzle for which I'll bet there's no good answer. The other day I looked at the 2021 roster on the Liberty website. Laney, Howard, and Whitcomb had been added. Durr remained on the list. Allen, Johannes, and Han weren't there.

So now Johannes and Han have been added, but not Allen. Many people here seem to think that Allen is coming but the other two aren't. Does someone from the marketing staff have new information? I highly doubt it.

I believe New York absolutely needs another post player. I'm not against drafting a guard at #6, but only if Kolb gets that additional post player via trade or free agency.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 02/13/21 12:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:

So now Johannes and Han have been added, but not Allen. Many people here seem to think that Allen is coming but the other two aren't. Does someone from the marketing staff have new information? I highly doubt it.


While intern incompetence is always a possibility, I think the players on the website are officially under contract. Han is still on her rookie contract. I vaguely remember that Johannes signed a multi-year contract -- although I never knew how long. Allen's contract ran out. She's expected to sign a new one, but probably hasn't done it yet.

As for your earlier question about Kolb's reference to the team's five rookies, Ionescu, Willoughby, Jones, Shook, and Odom are all on their rookie contracts. Unless they are cut, they default to being on the team. Holmes, who was signed after being cut by Seattle last season, had her 2020 contract run out. She subsequently signed a training camp contract. If Holmes is not officially added to the team's final roster, then that contract runs out at the end of training camp. She defaults to not being on the team. So, at the moment, the first five rookies are on the team, but Holmes is not. My guess is that Kolb was speaking with that in mind.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/13/21 1:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
While intern incompetence is always a possibility, I think the players on the website are officially under contract. Han is still on her rookie contract. I vaguely remember that Johannes signed a multi-year contract -- although I never knew how long. Allen's contract ran out. She's expected to sign a new one, but probably hasn't done it yet.

As for your earlier question about Kolb's reference to the team's five rookies, Ionescu, Willoughby, Jones, Shook, and Odom are all on their rookie contracts. Unless they are cut, they default to being on the team. Holmes, who was signed after being cut by Seattle last season, had her 2020 contract run out. She subsequently signed a training camp contract. If Holmes is not officially added to the team's final roster, then that contract runs out at the end of training camp. She defaults to not being on the team. So, at the moment, the first five rookies are on the team, but Holmes is not. My guess is that Kolb was speaking with that in mind.



But just days ago Johannes and Han were NOT on website's roster list. So they went from being on the roster list at some previous time to dropping off quite recently and then being restored. I see no other reasonable explanation: someone blundered.

Thanks for the explanation about the contracts. I didn't hear Kolb make any mention of Shook, but I also didn't listen to the entire video interview.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 02/13/21 1:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Those roster pages are all controlled by a central company (Elias? Not sure I'm remembering that right). A day or two ago all the opt-out players from last season that are still under contract were added back in (so Hayes, JJones etc. along with the New York ones). The opt-out players who are out of contract (including RAllen) are still left off. So it's a generic thing, not specific to the Liberty.

You still have to cut someone on a training camp contract just like you have to cut someone on a standard contract, by the way. The key difference is that the 'training camp contracts' (which is anything one-year at the applicable minimum) don't count on the salary cap until the opening day of the regular season.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 02/13/21 2:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So, the only administrative difference for training camp contracts is that they don't count against the salary cap until the season starts. However, we know players with that type of contract have a higher degree of roster vulnerability. There is also a big practical difference. Players under TC contracts can only receive "per diem, lodging, and transportation" above salary. There is no insurance protection against injury. As I recall, people have been cut from training camp because of injury. I guess players with training camp contracts need to arrive with their own insurance.

Getting back to Bob's question, I still believe Kolb was probably thinking about the players with regular contracts when he referred to the team's five rookies.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 02/13/21 3:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

so at the moment

Ionescu/Clarendon
Whitcomb/Jones
Laney/Odom/Willoughby
Howard/#6/Holmes
Stokes/Shook

with Allen if she signs and/or Johannes or Han showing (both looking less likely than likely ATM) and #17 competing to pick off Holmes and/or others if they prove worthy.

I would really like Allen or Johannes to come over as I think they would both improve on what we have above, but as a Holmes fan still holding out hope she can put it together I would be OK with the roster above especially if one of (Collier, Austin, Mack, Kuier) end up being there at #6


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PostPosted: 02/13/21 3:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
so at the moment

Ionescu/Clarendon
Whitcomb/Jones
Laney/Odom/Willoughby
Howard/#6/Holmes
Stokes/Shook

with Allen if she signs and/or Johannes or Han showing (both looking less likely than likely ATM) and #17 competing to pick off Holmes and/or others if they prove worthy.

I would really like Allen or Johannes to come over as I think they would both improve on what we have above, but as a Holmes fan still holding out hope she can put it together I would be OK with the roster above especially if one of (Collier, Austin, Mack, Kuier) end up being there at #6


If it works out this way--with or without Allen and/or Johannes and/or Han--it's going to be quite fascinating to see how Walt Hopkins begins the season. Who starts? Who gets how many minutes, in what position(s), in what combinations with others? Who's on the court in the last five minutes of a close game? Will Walt continue or abandon "small ball"? Etc. etc.

I'm SO curious about what's ahead.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 02/13/21 3:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
so at the moment

Ionescu/Clarendon
Whitcomb/Jones
Laney/Odom/Willoughby
Howard/#6/Holmes
Stokes/Shook

with Allen if she signs and/or Johannes or Han showing (both looking less likely than likely ATM) and #17 competing to pick off Holmes and/or others if they prove worthy.

I would really like Allen or Johannes to come over as I think they would both improve on what we have above, but as a Holmes fan still holding out hope she can put it together I would be OK with the roster above especially if one of (Collier, Austin, Mack, Kuier) end up being there at #6


If it works out this way--with or without Allen and/or Johannes and/or Han--it's going to be quite fascinating to see how Walt Hopkins begins the season. Who starts? Who gets how many minutes, in what position(s), in what combinations with others? Who's on the court in the last five minutes of a close game? Will Walt continue or abandon "small ball"? Etc. etc.

I'm SO curious about what's ahead.


What I like about the above roster even if it does end as it is above is

1. The addition of Howard, Laney, Whitcomb and return of Ionescu will make us much better on the offensive end (which for me was what made last years team so painful to watch, everyone was trying really hard, but scoring was a struggle).

2. I am curious how line ups will play out as well, but I feel this squad gives us so many more options than what we had last year after Ionescu went out. We can go big, small, we can do 5 shooters on the floor at once, we can put out a more defensive line up, we can have a line up with 5 players who can put the ball on the floor if need be, we can do a better job with the position-less switching concept and have better options to put out a more traditional line up as well.

3. Laney and Howard are going to want to prove themselves with bigger roles. Ionescu is going to want to show what she can do in her return. Whitcomb might be able to step into a starter role or a bigger six person role and will also have something to prove. And I am sure all the sophomores will want to show they are better than how last season played out, and will be put more in their roles with the new talent in place to thrive. In short we will have an entire team that is hungry to step up, play hard and show out, which feels very in the Liberty traditional and will at least lead to an exciting team we can all root for and get behind with better results than last years struggles.


LibFan25



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PostPosted: 02/13/21 7:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If we go post at 6th, I want either Austin or Mack if any one falls

If they go Guard, Chelsea Dungee is my pick, she can slide right in Kia Nurse's spot. That's how much confidence i have in that young woman watching her game this year. let's go Mr Hopkins make it happen


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 02/14/21 10:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Mack falls to 6 that would be amazing. I’d be curious if the Libs would view her more as:

-Not fitting their system and that being a disqualifier

OR

-Not fitting their system ATM BUT having confidence in their ability to develop a player with considerable tools.


All I know is, if they were lucky enough to be able to add a player with this type of defensive upside, you do it, no questions asked. Especially when you’ve already positioned yourselves to be an elite defensive team with your offseason acquisitions.

I don’t see how she could last that long though. But I’ve been wrong before.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 02/14/21 11:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LibFan25 wrote:
If we go post at 6th, I want either Austin or Mack if any one falls

If they go Guard, Chelsea Dungee is my pick, she can slide right in Kia Nurse's spot. That's how much confidence i have in that young woman watching her game this year. let's go Mr Hopkins make it happen


I think the draft just got a little more intriguing for you. Instead of “we have the #1 pick but I’m not sure who we should take”, it becomes “I’m excited to see who we get at #6”. It could be almost anyone.

I thought other than the obvious #1 pick they stunk at drafting last year, but apparently these players fit their system so they passed on players like Charles and Mompremier. Maybe they’ll come up with someone totally surprising at #6.



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PostPosted: 02/14/21 12:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Chelsea Perry would be a nice pick at #6 IMO. She was out with a minor injury for four games (think it was an ankle), but played some minutes in their last one. If you get a chance, watch her sometime. Their games are free. https://utmsports.com/sports/womens-basketball/schedule
Because of previous cancellations they're in the midst of playing a whole load of games - they've been playing about every other day since Jan 21. Shocked


bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 02/14/21 12:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Regarding Johannes, I believe it was a two year contract and she’ll be a free agent next offseason. As will Clarendon and Stokes.

Bob, so many questions regarding players, positions and lineups, as well as coaching/systems. Reminds me of last season, except we have more proven veteran talent.

As for Mack falling to #6.....I see a slim path for that happening.
Dallas I can only see cutting Gustafson which leaves two spots. I still think Collier goes #1. I think they push for Kuier to defer, at #2. Otherwise with Mack, they hope Ndour doesn’t show (which I don’t see, as she came during the pandemic in what was supposed to be the Olympic year last season). Can they afford to just cut Jefferson or Harrison? I suppose so, but can’t see them doing that either.
I feel they’re also comfortable with Arike and Marina in a lead guard role and don’t need another combo guard.

Atlanta I see needing a small forward and backup point before post. Has Davis really fallen? Yes her 3pt makes and % are way down, and FT% down a little, but she still averages 14.5ppg, 8.9rg, 2.9apg on FG 47.8%. Not bad basic stats, playing for a 12-4 SEC team. Guirantes another option. I can’t see them going post at #3.

Indiana could use a backup post, backup point, and...starting wing? Hard to predict what Catch would do here at #4- does she like Mack’s defensive chops or go for a player who better fits the five out system coach wants? Mack does have a nice midrange shot though. Could be Evans, could be Mack, could be Davis/Guirantes. I would see Mack as behind Cox, Lavender and McCowan. While Evans probably is behind D-Rob but could take over starting.

Back to Dallas at #5....they have 6 ‘posts’ under contract (two who play small forward as well)....maybe just drafted another post or two with their first picks. It’s hard to see this pick making the team, unless they cut one or all of Jefferson, Harrison, and Ndour. They like multi positional players. Maybe they go for a 4/5, or a 2/3?

All that to say for that slim path to Mack at 6 Laughing
1. Dallas- Collier, 2. Dallas- Kuier/Mack, 3. Atlanta- Davis/Guirantes, 4. Indiana- Evans, 5. Dallas- Guirantes/Davis, 6. New York- Mack/Kuier

And maybe Austin declares so we don’t even worry about it- if ‘true post’ is where we are going.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 02/14/21 2:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I seriously doubt Mack will be there at #6. However, Kuier is a real possibility. I think she fits what Hopkins wants to do, and I believe they would take her. Austin fits too. As I said before, they should look at Perry and maybe even Walker if the big names are gone.

Free agency is based on four years of actual service. Johannes only has one. Even if she played this year, she would still owe the Liberty two more seasons of showing up. I believe Marine has only signed one contract, so it has to be for three years to cover this season. I could be wrong. Anyway, she's not going anywhere unless the Liberty trade her.

Shades wrote:

I thought other than the obvious #1 pick they stunk at drafting last year, but apparently these players fit their system so they passed on players like Charles and Mompremier. Maybe they’ll come up with someone totally surprising at #6.


Walker went lower than expected and Odom was just about where most people predicted. Those picks shouldn't be criticized. You can argue the Liberty should have taken Mompremier instead of Shook, but it's not like NY was the only team that passed on Beatrice. I think every team had at least one chance to take her except LVA, which didn't pick until the 3rd Round.

The most hated pick in the draft was Jazmine Jones at #12. No one had her as a 1st Round pick and a lot of people didn't even have her in the 2nd Round. However, since Jaz ended up having a good year and making the All-Rookie team, everyone needs to acknowledge that they were wrong and Hopkins/Kolb were right. Give them some credit. They stuck to their beliefs and they were right. There's no arguing that Jones had a better year than Charles. As for Willoughby, all things considered, I don't think you can say Charles is clearly the better player. Right now, they're teammates in Israel. Both are having good seasons, but so far Willoughby is leading in more statistical categories and has a noticeably higher efficiency rating.



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