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lynxmania



Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 9685
Location: Minnesota


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PostPosted: 06/28/21 5:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So Catchings couldn’t wait until after the guaranteed date to make this signing? Was there that many people after Perry?

#FireCatchings


Rock Hard



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 4329
Location: Chocolate Paradise


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PostPosted: 06/28/21 5:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

lynxmania wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
Today feels the same as the day after the end of the NFL season. The day when head coaches crap in their pants because they know they are about to get fired.
I don't recall this many players across the league getting waived on the same day.


No one wants their contracts guaranteed

This season is more cutthroat across league that I can remember.



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PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 15811
Location: Chicago


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PostPosted: 06/28/21 5:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

lynxmania wrote:
So Catchings couldn’t wait until after the guaranteed date to make this signing? Was there that many people after Perry?

#FireCatchings


There is a lot of Shocked Rolling Eyes Shocked about this set of moves, but I don't understand this complaint. Why wait until after the guarantee date? Then they are forcing themselves to pay Cox for the whole season.


lynxmania



Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 9685
Location: Minnesota


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PostPosted: 06/28/21 5:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
lynxmania wrote:
So Catchings couldn’t wait until after the guaranteed date to make this signing? Was there that many people after Perry?

#FireCatchings


There is a lot of Shocked Rolling Eyes Shocked about this set of moves, but I don't understand this complaint. Why wait until after the guarantee date? Then they are forcing themselves to pay Cox for the whole season.


I’m saying why sign Perry before the guarantee date. You could just wait until after and sign Perry to the non-guaranteed deals.


Milks26



Joined: 25 Mar 2021
Posts: 416



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PostPosted: 06/28/21 8:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Milks26 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
to me she has always seemed very fragile. Perhaps they've decided she won't ever be healthy enough for long enough to be useful.


Agreed. But, honestly I would've found a to dump/eat a protected contract before I gave up on a 2020 draft pick already or even better fire Stanley.


I couldn’t really understand what you were saying, but your boy Bibb has done both. In 2017, he drafted Evelyn Akhator at #3 and gave up on her after one year. Cut, no trade. This year he cut a protected contract in Ndour, and then she took a Fall.

In 2015, he drafted Zahui #2, and he gave up on her after one year, but he got Liberty’s first round pick for (Zahui + the Dallas 2nd round pick).
As it turned out, Zahui + Lindsay Allen for Kaela Davis.


In 2017, Chicago drafted Coates #2. She was out her whole first year, and lasted a year before being traded in 2019 preseason for MIN’s third round pick in 2020, which turned out to be Japreece Dean.


We're (I'm) not talking about making picks and giving up on them quickly. Yes, Akhator and Ndour were both dumb moves. But, were they fragile players? Cox was fragile at Baylor and has been so far in a pro career



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Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 23362
Location: London


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PostPosted: 06/28/21 8:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
lynxmania wrote:
So Catchings couldn’t wait until after the guaranteed date to make this signing? Was there that many people after Perry?

#FireCatchings


There is a lot of Shocked Rolling Eyes Shocked about this set of moves, but I don't understand this complaint. Why wait until after the guarantee date? Then they are forcing themselves to pay Cox for the whole season.

No, signing Perry now means she's on the roster at midseason, which means it essentially insta-guarantees. They basically just handed her $30,000 when if they'd waited three days they could've signed her to 7-day contracts that cost $4,326 each. The whole reason there were all these cuts today were to avoid guaranteeing these contracts for the remainder of the season, whereas Catchings added someone who instantly becomes one of those people that other teams would've cut. I agree with lynxmania that it's a bizarre move.



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J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6215



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PostPosted: 06/28/21 10:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
lynxmania wrote:
So Catchings couldn’t wait until after the guaranteed date to make this signing? Was there that many people after Perry?

#FireCatchings


There is a lot of Shocked Rolling Eyes Shocked about this set of moves, but I don't understand this complaint. Why wait until after the guarantee date? Then they are forcing themselves to pay Cox for the whole season.

No, signing Perry now means she's on the roster at midseason, which means it essentially insta-guarantees. They basically just handed her $30,000 when if they'd waited three days they could've signed her to 7-day contracts that cost $4,326 each. The whole reason there were all these cuts today were to avoid guaranteeing these contracts for the remainder of the season, whereas Catchings added someone who instantly becomes one of those people that other teams would've cut. I agree with lynxmania that it's a bizarre move.


IDK to me it seems like they regretted cutting Perry and would rather give her a real chance to develop than play in/out with players. The Fever are 1 and 15 if you think Perry has hope for the future committing to her for the season and giving her legit minutes (that you weren't comfortable giving Cox) isn't really going to hurt your bottom line either way.

If Perry pans out you at least have added a little bit to your youth development with a player that you drafted and gave some time to in the regular season (I doubt the Fever have a long list of other players they would want to give time to, with their track record would they even trust themselves to do better and with their actual record it is not like they are going to suddenly turn into a playoff team with other move or ruin their lottery chances if tank is the plan from here on out), and that player probably feels a little better about the situation than being in and out on short term deals and you get them as a reserve going into next season.

For another team it might not make sense but I don't think the Fever have much to lose in making the over commitment and maybe even a little to gain. If come 22 Perry is in the post rotation it could end up being the best personnel decision of 21 for the Fever.


PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 15811
Location: Chicago


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PostPosted: 06/28/21 10:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
lynxmania wrote:
So Catchings couldn’t wait until after the guaranteed date to make this signing? Was there that many people after Perry?

#FireCatchings


There is a lot of Shocked Rolling Eyes Shocked about this set of moves, but I don't understand this complaint. Why wait until after the guarantee date? Then they are forcing themselves to pay Cox for the whole season.

No, signing Perry now means she's on the roster at midseason, which means it essentially insta-guarantees. They basically just handed her $30,000 when if they'd waited three days they could've signed her to 7-day contracts that cost $4,326 each. The whole reason there were all these cuts today were to avoid guaranteeing these contracts for the remainder of the season, whereas Catchings added someone who instantly becomes one of those people that other teams would've cut. I agree with lynxmania that it's a bizarre move.


Sorry, Lynxmania, I completely misread your post. I thought you meant it was terrible of them to cut Cox before she could get a guaranteed salary. Not sure where I got that.

As for the Perry side, yes, absolutely bonkers to not just wait a couple of days. If someone else takes her, who f-ing cares. Find someone else. I was intrigued by Perry, but this isn't even rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. This is re-arranging the deck chairs at end of the Titanic's bench.

One more example of Catchings just having no clue how to do her job.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 23362
Location: London


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PostPosted: 06/28/21 10:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There's just no need to cut into your flexibility like that. You can sign her for the rest of the season at any point. Might as well bring her back for a 7-day or two first, then turn it into something long-term. Hell, if you sign her for literally two seven-day contracts, you then get to keep her in the building for the next 34 days on top because the break doesn't count. You have to be smart when you're terrible, and win on the margins. You keep every scrap of space and flexibility that you can in order to capitalise on future opportunities. But then, they already screwed that up with Sims.

Honestly, it gets harder by the day to defend the Fever when people say they don't know what they're doing and I try to play devil's advocate.



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J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6215



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PostPosted: 06/28/21 10:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah everything you all are saying totally makes sense I just don't think it is that big of a deal

Now when Mike T signs Cox to a 7 day and she suddenly starts playing well, that will be a big deal j/k not really


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 6771
Location: Underground


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PostPosted: 06/29/21 12:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:

Now when Mike T signs Cox to a 7 day and she suddenly starts playing well, that will be a big deal j/k not really


I think that's a very real possibility. Washington cut three players, they need post help, and Thibault has a good track record when it comes to developing players.



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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 57490



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 5:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:

Now when Mike T signs Cox to a 7 day and she suddenly starts playing well, that will be a big deal j/k not really


I think that's a very real possibility. Washington cut three players, they need post help, and Thibault has a good track record when it comes to developing players.


Thus the reason he’s cutting three players.

But maybe he wants the opportunity to develop a lottery pick since it’s been a while since he’s had one of those…. not since the Tayler Hill development days.

I wonder if he’s considering bringing back Shatori Walker-Kimbrough (aka SWK). She was a role player in that 2019 championship season. 🤔



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PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 15811
Location: Chicago


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PostPosted: 06/29/21 9:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Two questions about cut players:

1. When a player is resigned, can it be at the vet minimum? Or is player who would be on rookie scale still on that salary level?

2. Can the player be resigned by the team that cut her after she clears waivers?


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 23362
Location: London


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PostPosted: 06/29/21 9:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Two questions about cut players:

1. When a player is resigned, can it be at the vet minimum? Or is player who would be on rookie scale still on that salary level?

2. Can the player be resigned by the team that cut her after she clears waivers?

1. Once the player clears waivers, they're no longer tied to the previous contract in any way or any scale. So they can be signed for their applicable minimum (assuming they're willing to sign for that amount, obviously).

2. Yes. Typically, you have to wait at least ten days to re-sign a player you waived yourselves, but cutting someone before the midpoint and then re-signing them is one of the exceptions where you're allowed to do it immediately (whether it's re-signing them to a 7-day or a Rest of Season contract). You can only do it immediately if it's for their applicable minimum, though.



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PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 15811
Location: Chicago


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PostPosted: 06/29/21 9:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Two questions about cut players:

1. When a player is resigned, can it be at the vet minimum? Or is player who would be on rookie scale still on that salary level?

2. Can the player be resigned by the team that cut her after she clears waivers?

1. Once the player clears waivers, they're no longer tied to the previous contract in any way or any scale. So they can be signed for their applicable minimum (assuming they're willing to sign for that amount, obviously).

2. Yes. Typically, you have to wait at least ten days to re-sign a player you waived yourselves, but cutting someone before the midpoint and then re-signing them is one of the exceptions where you're allowed to do it immediately (whether it's re-signing them to a 7-day or a Rest of Season contract). You can only do it immediately if it's for their applicable minimum, though.


Thank you!!

This is what I thought, but I knew someone (ok, you) would no for sure.


myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 29443



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 10:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:

Now when Mike T signs Cox to a 7 day and she suddenly starts playing well, that will be a big deal j/k not really


I think that's a very real possibility. Washington cut three players, they need post help, and Thibault has a good track record when it comes to developing players.


Thibault will know the exact details of why she was cut since he and Stanley are great pals. So I would be surprised if he goes that way unless he thinks Indiana's reasons are bogus or doesn't apply to him...


Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10849



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 10:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Two questions about cut players:

1. When a player is resigned, can it be at the vet minimum? Or is player who would be on rookie scale still on that salary level?

2. Can the player be resigned by the team that cut her after she clears waivers?

1. Once the player clears waivers, they're no longer tied to the previous contract in any way or any scale. So they can be signed for their applicable minimum (assuming they're willing to sign for that amount, obviously).

2. Yes. Typically, you have to wait at least ten days to re-sign a player you waived yourselves, but cutting someone before the midpoint and then re-signing them is one of the exceptions where you're allowed to do it immediately (whether it's re-signing them to a 7-day or a Rest of Season contract). You can only do it immediately if it's for their applicable minimum, though.


Seems like a way to force a pay cut on a player.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 23362
Location: London


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PostPosted: 06/29/21 11:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Richyyy wrote:

2.Yes. Typically, you have to wait at least ten days to re-sign a player you waived yourselves, but cutting someone before the midpoint and then re-signing them is one of the exceptions where you're allowed to do it immediately (whether it's re-signing them to a 7-day or a Rest of Season contract). You can only do it immediately if it's for their applicable minimum, though.


Seems like a way to force a pay cut on a player.

Wait the ten days and you can re-sign for anything. Or, of course, the player always has the option of accepting a pay cut to $0.

Realistically, players in this situation are very rarely going to be offered anything other than their applicable minimum anyway.



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Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 3220
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PostPosted: 06/29/21 11:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In essence:




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undersized_post



Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 1177
Location: midwest/indiana/iowa


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PostPosted: 06/29/21 12:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
In essence:



Ooo that's good


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 57490



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 6:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

June 29, 2021
Indiana Fever: Lauren Cox – Waivers Cleared



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Milks26



Joined: 25 Mar 2021
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PostPosted: 06/29/21 8:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Per RachGall

Sources: Sparks are finalizing a deal with 2020 No. 3 pick Lauren Cox for the remainder of the season. Sparks also plan to bring back Karlie Samuelson tomorrow and terminated her today to make cap room for both. Pending physical, Cox could be available tomorrow.


Didn't take long


Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10849



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PostPosted: 06/29/21 9:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Milks26 wrote:
Per RachGall

Sources: Sparks are finalizing a deal with 2020 No. 3 pick Lauren Cox for the remainder of the season. Sparks also plan to bring back Karlie Samuelson tomorrow and terminated her today to make cap room for both. Pending physical, Cox could be available tomorrow.


Didn't take long


Why give her a ROS - don't they know they can just wait and give her 7 days deals..... Razz


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8631



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PostPosted: 06/30/21 12:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
Indy dropped a lottery pick this quickly. Didn't even try to trade her for a loaf of bread. Indy management is making Wade look like a genius!😜


I don't know, Wade drafted a very small (height and wingspan) Australian-league guard in the first round who myrtle says was also clearly lacking quickness. At least Cox had the requisite size.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 06/30/21 12:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
It's very difficult to write about Lauren Cox because she's "out of shape." The difference between her now and when she was an elite prospect is obvious, but it's not something that can be written about in women's sports.


"elite prospect" as in high school player? How many WNBA posts are still at the same weight they were in high school? I think a weight comparison critique should be made with what she weighed as a college senior judged to be good enough to make the WNBA lottery.

--------------

Cox's Player Efficiency Rating (PER - league average is supposed to be 15) did decline this year, from 12.3 in 2020 to 5.2 this year:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/wnba/players/c/coxla01w.html#all_advanced-playoffs_advanced


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