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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 08/05/20 8:01 am    ::: Issues at Texas Tech Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Texas Tech women's basketball players describe toxic culture: 'Fear, anxiety and depression'
In two years since Marlene Stollings took over once-storied program, 12 players have left amid allegations of abuse by the coach and two assistants.


https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/sports/ncaaw/big12/2020/08/05/marlene-stollings-texas-tech-program-culture-abuse-players-say/5553370002/



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/05/20 11:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sad ... and a way too familiar story. Motivating through fear and intimidation can work in terms of wins and losses, but there's more to coaching than wins and losses.



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OutdoorsKid



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PostPosted: 08/05/20 2:38 pm    ::: Re: Issues at Texas Tech Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Quote:
Texas Tech women's basketball players describe toxic culture: 'Fear, anxiety and depression'
In two years since Marlene Stollings took over once-storied program, 12 players have left amid allegations of abuse by the coach and two assistants.


https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/sports/ncaaw/big12/2020/08/05/marlene-stollings-texas-tech-program-culture-abuse-players-say/5553370002/


The Associate HC, Lowry, was removed from coaching duties in 2003 at U of New Mexico for player abuse allegations. Stollings was an Assistant at UNM time. So then fast forward a few years and Stollings is HC at TT, and Lowry is an Associate HC. Do the AD's do any homework at all in approving hires? Why would anyone in their right mind allow Lowry to coach again? Seems like an incredible lapse in judgment. And now leaving Stollings in a coaching position seems pretty questionnable. I hope that TT does an investigation, and then does the right thing here.

Here is another example of the same thing: Dana Eikenberg left SIU after player allegations of abuse and misconduct. Jody Adams was her assistant there. A few years later, Jody Adams becomes head coach at Wichita State and guess who appears first as DOBO and then Assistant? Dana Eikenberg. Adams (who gets married and is Adams-Birch) eventually gets asked to leave Wichita State, but not after facing allegations of player abuse and misconduct. https://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article127612249.html Eikenberg is out of coaching at the moment, but Adams-Birch is back as an assistant at SIU. Again, why would anyone hire someone as a coach with these allegations in their history, particularly when there are other choices?


adamj95



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PostPosted: 08/06/20 9:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stollings is out as head coach.



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 08/06/20 10:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This didn't take long.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/big12/2020/08/06/texas-tech-fires-womens-basketball-coach-marlene-stollings/3314466001/



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PickledGinger



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PostPosted: 08/07/20 12:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

adamj95 wrote:
Stollings is out as head coach.


Sadly, my gut feeling is that your avatar is headed for a similar fate. Sad I mean, she doesn't exactly have a great reputation as a "player's coach" at this point in her career.


OutdoorsKid



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PostPosted: 08/07/20 6:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It did not take long after USA Today published their story. But apparently, TT had done an investigation of Stollings previously and did not fire her. These athletics directors that let this stuff go on should be fired, too.


adamj95



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PostPosted: 08/07/20 7:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
Stollings is out as head coach.


Sadly, my gut feeling is that your avatar is headed for a similar fate. Sad I mean, she doesn't exactly have a great reputation as a "player's coach" at this point in her career.


Not sure what that has to do with the allegations against Stollings and her staff....



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PG4ever



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PostPosted: 08/07/20 12:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Looks like Lowry Dawkins is out too.
https://www.everythinglubbock.com/news/local-news/dawkins-fired-as-assistant-coach-with-lady-raiders-right-after-stollings-also-fired/


ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/07/20 1:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Who knows why, but it appears a tipping point has been reached when it comes to the way colleges interact with the labor pool that drives their multi-million dollar programs.

Coaches are no longer given free rein to abuse young athletes, and institutions are being asked to explain why the athletes who generate revenue are undercompensated while mostly white administrators and coaches are paid very well.

For me, it would be a great first step for colleges to acknowledge the economic system that underlies athletic programs, which generate alumni interest and donations, and provide free marketing for the schools. Without undercompensating labor, the economics do not work, it appears, and it would seem the first step towards some kind of balance would be to honestly try to deal with the issues rather than pretending they don't exist.



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OutdoorsKid



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PostPosted: 08/07/20 3:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Coaches are no longer given free rein to abuse young athletes, and institutions are being asked to explain why the athletes who generate revenue are undercompensated while mostly white administrators and coaches are paid very well.

For me, it would be a great first step for colleges to acknowledge the economic system that underlies athletic programs, which generate alumni interest and donations, and provide free marketing for the schools. Without undercompensating labor, the economics do not work, it appears, and it would seem the first step towards some kind of balance would be to honestly try to deal with the issues rather than pretending they don't exist.


Agreed. Compensation in athletics for a lot of sports, and for athletics directorships and maybe a few other positions are way out of whack. The beneficiaries have largely been white people in those positions.

It's not just that students are undercompensated for what is essentially a full time job, but in a lot of cases, D I coaches won't let students take time away for summer internships, to travel to professional conferences related to their major in the off-season, and for a host of other activities that will help them find a good job after they graduate. Only a tiny fraction of all college athletes will go pro; the rest need jobs elsewhere. College is firstly about furthering one's education. But for too many athletes, the coaches expect it tobe firstly about their sport.

Maybe forcing schools to pay athletes for practice time, weight room time, playing time, required physical therapy, etc. will make them realize just how costly to the student it is to be under contract with the university to essentially perform. Most schools could not handle paying even minimum wage for all of those hours. Then perhaps schools will reduce the amount of time required of student athletes, and instead of expecting student athletes to be under their control year round, make sports truly seasonal again and pay players for their time commitment. This, in turn, will allow schools to return to the idea of letting players practice together maybe for a month before the season starts, and then when the season ends, require no time commitment on the player's part until the month before the next season.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 08/07/20 4:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PG4ever wrote:
Looks like Lowry Dawkins is out too.
https://www.everythinglubbock.com/news/local-news/dawkins-fired-as-assistant-coach-with-lady-raiders-right-after-stollings-also-fired/

Quote:
Texas Tech previously described Dawkins as coaching veteran and four-time gold medalist with USA Basketball

Forgive my momentary lack of interest in researching this factoid, but....what teams did a gal named Nikita Lowry earn gold medals with? I don't remember that name at all, and I've watched the Olympics since before most of y'all were born. (which might explain why/how I've forgotten her Laughing) Of course, I know USA hoops includes more than *just* the Olympics, but maybe some of you know of her history with that.
OutdoorsKid wrote:
Then perhaps schools will reduce the amount of time required of student athletes, and instead of expecting student athletes to be under their control year round....

I'm curious if anyone is apprised of how broadly this 'situation' exists: is it just in the more elite programs, all D1, etc.?



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OutdoorsKid



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PostPosted: 08/07/20 5:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="Howee"]
PG4ever wrote:

OutdoorsKid wrote:
Then perhaps schools will reduce the amount of time required of student athletes, and instead of expecting student athletes to be under their control year round....

I'm curious if anyone is apprised of how broadly this 'situation' exists: is it just in the more elite programs, all D1, etc.?


About 10 years ago, I wrote a reference for a D I WBB player (starter - good player) at a mid-major to transfer to a D III school (a very academically elite school) for exactly this reason. Had players as advisees and all said they had class and bball, but no job, internships, etc. In summers, they were to be on campus in the weight room, shooting, etc. No internships allowed. Then just this year, at another university, another D I athlete, not in a power conference, a male, told me he left his sport for similar reasons -- he wanted and needed to work part-time in launching his career, and coaches said "no". The guy was good and he walked.


Stormeo



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PostPosted: 08/07/20 7:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Another program with history making a coaching change this offseason. I wonder if this one will give Goestenkors a call...



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OutdoorsKid



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PostPosted: 08/07/20 7:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Another program with history making a coaching change this offseason. I wonder if this one will give Goestenkors a call...


Who knows? And if they did, would she consider TT? It's a 6 hour drive from Austin to Lubbock but culturally, the two cities are a world apart.

I keep wishing UW will gracefully let their coach go and recruit GG or someone of that high caliber and then I will move back to Seattle and buy season tickets. I was around to watch Plum and Osahor play their last two years and those were some fun years!
Very Happy


Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 08/07/20 8:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Christine Brennan calling for the AD to be fired too.
Quote:

For many months, Texas Tech athletics director Kirby Hocutt knew there was trouble in his athletic department, specifically within the women’s basketball program. He knew a committee had reviewed numerous allegations of abuse against head coach Marlene Stollings and assistant coach Nikita Lowry Dawkins. He asked for and received a verbal report about the findings.

Weeks went by, and he did nothing.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2020/08/07/texas-tech-ad-kirby-hocutt-needs-go-failing-basketball-players/3322481001/



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OutdoorsKid



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PostPosted: 08/07/20 8:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Christine Brennan calling for the AD to be fired too.
Quote:

For many months, Texas Tech athletics director Kirby Hocutt knew there was trouble in his athletic department, specifically within the women’s basketball program. He knew a committee had reviewed numerous allegations of abuse against head coach Marlene Stollings and assistant coach Nikita Lowry Dawkins. He asked for and received a verbal report about the findings.

Weeks went by, and he did nothing.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2020/08/07/texas-tech-ad-kirby-hocutt-needs-go-failing-basketball-players/3322481001/


Here's a very good example of why the profession of journalism matters. And yes, he needs to resign or be fired.


Howee



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PostPosted: 08/07/20 8:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Another program with history making a coaching change this offseason. I wonder if this one will give Goestenkors a call...


Yeesh. I think GG has had enough of Texas..... Razz



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readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 08/07/20 9:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Christine Brennan calling for the AD to be fired too.
Quote:

For many months, Texas Tech athletics director Kirby Hocutt knew there was trouble in his athletic department, specifically within the women’s basketball program. He knew a committee had reviewed numerous allegations of abuse against head coach Marlene Stollings and assistant coach Nikita Lowry Dawkins. He asked for and received a verbal report about the findings.

Weeks went by, and he did nothing.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2020/08/07/texas-tech-ad-kirby-hocutt-needs-go-failing-basketball-players/3322481001/


McCallie should have been fired from Duke when the "investigation" happened. AD should have been fired for the same reason: keeping an incompetent and abusive coach for WAY too many years.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 08/07/20 11:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
Another program with history making a coaching change this offseason. I wonder if this one will give Goestenkors a call...


Yeesh. I think GG has had enough of Texas..... Razz


Texas has had enough of her.



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ridor



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PostPosted: 08/08/20 8:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Kirby is enamored with the success of Men's program and has been neglecting the women's program.

It is interesting to note that nobody is saying that Stollings and Lowry Dawkins were the products of ... Nancy Darsch. There were some grapevines at OSU about the way she coached.

That's where Stollings and Lowry Dawkins learned from.


purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 08/08/20 9:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OutdoorsKid wrote:
Maybe forcing schools to pay athletes for practice time, weight room time, playing time, required physical therapy, etc. will make them realize just how costly to the student it is to be under contract with the university to essentially perform. Most schools could not handle paying even minimum wage for all of those hours. Then perhaps schools will reduce the amount of time required of student athletes, and instead of expecting student athletes to be under their control year round, make sports truly seasonal again and pay players for their time commitment. This, in turn, will allow schools to return to the idea of letting players practice together maybe for a month before the season starts, and then when the season ends, require no time commitment on the player's part until the month before the next season.


And if schools are paying them for their time, then it would only seem right that the student-athlete pay to go to school, pay for gym rental/weight room fees, pay their coaches the going hourly rate for an individual trainer while they are receiving skill instruction, rent the gym for practices/workouts, pay their tutor(s) as needed, buy their meals, buy their plane tickets/bus tickets for road games, purchase their shoes/practice gear/uniforms, bring their own supplies for the training room, pay the trainer for all the work they do on them, etc.

Investing. That's what schools are doing with all the money they spend on them for everything (scholarship, books, travel, meals, housing, equipment, etc). That's what kids are doing with all the time they spend on everything .

I would just add that during my career as a coach (mid major and major), our kids were allowed to leave but just had to come back for summer camps, where they got paid well and treated like queens by the kids. It's not like it was a week of hell. We also had many players throughout the years that actually liked staying near the campus during the summers (heaven forbid) and working out and working a part-time job.

Many of your posts seem to paint a very negative image of athletics. I'm sorry you have all these bad experiences, but even though there are some issues that certainly need to be addressed, it isn't really as horrible as you portray. And yes, there are coaches that abuse their position of authority, abuse kids, etc...but there are bad apples in every single profession out there.

Lastly, yes, it is very time demanding to be a Division I athlete. Not everyone can do it. School, coupled with a high level sport would be the equivalent of working 2 jobs. It's tough. But also extremely rewarding. They challenge themselves to do things that the vast majority of people cannot do. They graduate with a degree and no debt. They get to travel the country and the world for free. They develop friendships and bonds that last forever. They learn leadership and teamwork skills that most people their age don't get.




Last edited by purduefanatic on 08/08/20 9:40 am; edited 1 time in total
purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 08/08/20 9:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ah crap, double post.


bucks4now



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PostPosted: 08/08/20 9:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ridor wrote:
I think Kirby is enamored with the success of Men's program and has been neglecting the women's program.

It is interesting to note that nobody is saying that Stollings and Lowry Dawkins were the products of ... Nancy Darsch. There were some grapevines at OSU about the way she coached.

That's where Stollings and Lowry Dawkins learned from.


And Nancy learned from....Pat Summitt


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 08/08/20 10:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

purduefanatic wrote:
OutdoorsKid wrote:
Maybe forcing schools to pay athletes for practice time, weight room time, playing time, required physical therapy, etc. will make them realize just how costly to the student it is to be under contract with the university to essentially perform. Most schools could not handle paying even minimum wage for all of those hours. Then perhaps schools will reduce the amount of time required of student athletes, and instead of expecting student athletes to be under their control year round, make sports truly seasonal again and pay players for their time commitment. This, in turn, will allow schools to return to the idea of letting players practice together maybe for a month before the season starts, and then when the season ends, require no time commitment on the player's part until the month before the next season.


And if schools are paying them for their time, then it would only seem right that the student-athlete pay to go to school, pay for gym rental/weight room fees, pay their coaches the going hourly rate for an individual trainer while they are receiving skill instruction, rent the gym for practices/workouts, pay their tutor(s) as needed, buy their meals, buy their plane tickets/bus tickets for road games, purchase their shoes/practice gear/uniforms, bring their own supplies for the training room, pay the trainer for all the work they do on them, etc.

Investing. That's what schools are doing with all the money they spend on them for everything (scholarship, books, travel, meals, housing, equipment, etc). That's what kids are doing with all the time they spend on everything .

I would just add that during my career as a coach (mid major and major), our kids were allowed to leave but just had to come back for summer camps, where they got paid well and treated like queens by the kids. It's not like it was a week of hell. We also had many players throughout the years that actually liked staying near the campus during the summers (heaven forbid) and working out and working a part-time job.

Many of your posts seem to paint a very negative image of athletics. I'm sorry you have all these bad experiences, but even though there are some issues that certainly need to be addressed, it isn't really as horrible as you portray. And yes, there are coaches that abuse their position of authority, abuse kids, etc...but there are bad apples in every single profession out there.

Lastly, yes, it is very time demanding to be a Division I athlete. Not everyone can do it. School, coupled with a high level sport would be the equivalent of working 2 jobs. It's tough. But also extremely rewarding. They challenge themselves to do things that the vast majority of people cannot do. They graduate with a degree and no debt. They get to travel the country and the world for free. They develop friendships and bonds that last forever. They learn leadership and teamwork skills that most people their age don't get.


Excellent counterpoints, purduefanatic.
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