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Genero36



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PostPosted: 05/07/20 10:32 am    ::: Ahmaud Arbery Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/A04FYzu_H0E" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A04FYzu_H0E




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Genero36



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PostPosted: 05/07/20 10:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ESKiRF2kws0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESKiRF2kws0



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PostPosted: 05/07/20 12:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

saw it yesterday....that poor man, and FUCK those assholes and the prosecutor. it's sooooooooo wrong. aaaarrrrggghhhhh

thankfully the video surfaced. wtf took so long, and who recorded it?


Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 05/07/20 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
saw it yesterday....that poor man, and FUCK those assholes and the prosecutor. it's sooooooooo wrong. aaaarrrrggghhhhh

thankfully the video surfaced. wtf took so long, and who recorded it?


Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad


Makes you think about how many times this happens with no video.


Genero36



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PostPosted: 05/07/20 8:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

2 Suspects Charged With Murder in Ahmaud Arbery Killing

Quote:
Georgia police on Thursday arrested a white father and son and charged them with murder in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery, a 25-year-old black man whose death in February has recently attracted widespread outrage.

Much of that anger has been focused on the fact that no charges had been brought against the father and son, Gregory and Travis McMichael, ages 64 and 34.

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation said that both men had been taken into custody and charged with aggravated assault in addition to murder. Travis McMichael fired the shots that killed Mr. Arbery, the state police agency said in a statement.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/us/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-arrest.html



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Howee



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PostPosted: 05/08/20 9:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
saw it yesterday....that poor man, and FUCK those assholes and the prosecutor. it's sooooooooo wrong. aaaarrrrggghhhhh

thankfully the video surfaced. wtf took so long, and who recorded it?
Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad


I pondered that same thing myself: who randomly cruises neighborhoods running a dash-cam/whatever? Then I heard it was a neighbor/friend of the perps. Fukked.



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PostPosted: 05/08/20 9:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
saw it yesterday....that poor man, and FUCK those assholes and the prosecutor. it's sooooooooo wrong. aaaarrrrggghhhhh

thankfully the video surfaced. wtf took so long, and who recorded it?
Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad


I pondered that same thing myself: who randomly cruises neighborhoods running a dash-cam/whatever? Then I heard it was a neighbor/friend of the perps. Fukked.


The answer is in the police report and first prosecutor's letter, which the NY Times published. The video was available from the beginning and was analyzed by that prosecutor in forming his opinion that there was no probable cause to arrest.
hyperetic



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PostPosted: 05/08/20 5:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure there will be an attempt at character assassination due to Arbery's past brushes with the law.
Genero36



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PostPosted: 05/08/20 5:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
saw it yesterday....that poor man, and FUCK those assholes and the prosecutor. it's sooooooooo wrong. aaaarrrrggghhhhh

thankfully the video surfaced. wtf took so long, and who recorded it?


Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad


This is all apart of what makes this country.

He would’ve turned 26 years old today.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 05/08/20 5:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/61P62tydlec" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61P62tydlec



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PostPosted: 05/08/20 6:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/georgia/ahmaud-arbery-case-waycross-district-attorney-explains-letter-why-no-one-was-arrested-25-year-olds-shooting-death/SMY4JVJTVNHWJAMF4QBD775UHY/


https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/glynn-county/ahmaud-arbery-attorney-man-who-recorded-video-fatal-shooting-releases-statement/EIX6EX425VCRJG3Z4ZYQH5RE6A/



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PostPosted: 05/08/20 8:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Unless Georgia's "citizen's arrest" laws are atypical to how they are written in most states, or there is some aspect of this that is being left out, that DA's reasoning is really problematic.

In every law that allows for a citizen to legally detain another that I am aware of, it requires them to be first-hand witnesses to a crime and to do so in the immediate aftermath of said crime. I know of no law that allows random people to chase down and point guns at someone else because they "match the description" of someone who may have committed an offense at some point. Citizen Arrest laws are meant to allow non-LEOs to take action and detain someone who is witnessed actively committing a crime before law enforcement can arrive. It is not a license for vigilante justice.

And that being the case, as soon as these guys pointed a gun at Mr. Arbery they have committed aggravated assault with a firearm (a felony). And you cannot claim self defense during the commission of a crime.

This also means Mr. Arbery had every right to attempt to defend himself, as having a gun pointed at you is the very definition of "reasonable fear" for one's life.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 05/08/20 11:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It has been consistently repeated as true that he resembled a suspect in a series of break-ins in the neighborhood. That is, that there were a series of break ins, and that he resembled the suspect. The last reported break in in the area was on January 1st and it was a gun taken from the father of the shooter's unlocked truck parked in front of the house. In December there was a gun taken from a vehicle on the 8th and an an incident later in the month reported as a "theft". They don't report a description of a suspect for any of those that happened 53 or more days before the shooting, although that doesn't mean that there wasn't one. But the press should find out and report if there was one.

The person who called 911 to report the victim on the property of a house under construction said that "the man had previously been “caught on camera” in the area and that the situation was an ongoing problem." Falsely claiming caught on camera, talking about caught on camera jogging in daylight, or talking about caught on camera in the early am? Would like that investigated by reporters/police.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ny-no-burglaries-reported-for-weeks-before-ahmaud-arbery-killing-20200508-6pp35kjezbeszckj4hwvf2h4be-story.html


tfan



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PostPosted: 05/09/20 12:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Unless Georgia's "citizen's arrest" laws are atypical to how they are written in most states, or there is some aspect of this that is being left out, that DA's reasoning is really problematic.

In every law that allows for a citizen to legally detain another that I am aware of, it requires them to be first-hand witnesses to a crime and to do so in the immediate aftermath of said crime. I know of no law that allows random people to chase down and point guns at someone else because they "match the description" of someone who may have committed an offense at some point. Citizen Arrest laws are meant to allow non-LEOs to take action and detain someone who is witnessed actively committing a crime before law enforcement can arrive. It is not a license for vigilante justice.

And that being the case, as soon as these guys pointed a gun at Mr. Arbery they have committed aggravated assault with a firearm (a felony). And you cannot claim self defense during the commission of a crime.

This also means Mr. Arbery had every right to attempt to defend himself, as having a gun pointed at you is the very definition of "reasonable fear" for one's life.


Georgia probably has a similar law because the DA George Barnhill tries to paint it like that before stating their actions were legal, although he uses the word "appears" suggesting he made a decision regarding a murder without being sure or convinced. But then he uses "solid' which shouldn't prove true. He should get some punishment for writing it that way.

Quote:
Third,
It appears Travis McMichael, Greg McMichael, and Bryan William were following, in ‘hot pursuit’, a burglary suspect, with solid first hand probable cause, in their neighborhood, and asking/ telling him to stop. It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until law enforcement arrived. Under Georgia Law this is perfectly legal.


The defendents are claiming that they felt he stole something from the home construction he stopped at although I am pretty sure someone called them about him being in that area, meaning they had no first hand knowledge. And I don't think that a crime was reported to them either as it wasn't reported to the police.


Quote:
A police report says Greg McMichael, age 64, believed Arbery burglarized a nearby home under construction.


Buy it is also reported like the just saw him running down the street:

Quote:
Greg McMichael said there had been several break-ins in the neighborhood. He told police he saw Arbery running down the street and he asked his son, Travis, to help him confront Arbery. The two allegedly got a shotgun and handgun because they “didn’t know if Arbery was armed or not.”




Last edited by tfan on 05/09/20 1:53 am; edited 1 time in total
GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 05/09/20 1:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Unless Georgia's "citizen's arrest" laws are atypical to how they are written in most states, or there is some aspect of this that is being left out, that DA's reasoning is really problematic.

In every law that allows for a citizen to legally detain another that I am aware of, it requires them to be first-hand witnesses to a crime and to do so in the immediate aftermath of said crime. I know of no law that allows random people to chase down and point guns at someone else because they "match the description" of someone who may have committed an offense at some point. Citizen Arrest laws are meant to allow non-LEOs to take action and detain someone who is witnessed actively committing a crime before law enforcement can arrive. It is not a license for vigilante justice.

And that being the case, as soon as these guys pointed a gun at Mr. Arbery they have committed aggravated assault with a firearm (a felony). And you cannot claim self defense during the commission of a crime.

This also means Mr. Arbery had every right to attempt to defend himself, as having a gun pointed at you is the very definition of "reasonable fear" for one's life.


The Georgia citizen's arrest statute is quoted in the prosecutor's letter and is here. It's factually unknown whether this was a valid citizen's arrest scenario, but the statute doesn't require the crime to have been committed in the presence of the arresting citizen. He is required to have had "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion" that Arbery was attempting to escape from the commission of a felony. It's an interesting legal question as to how recent the felony has to be. There may be judicial case law on that point, which would have to be researched.

The citizens arrest statute may not be relevant if there's no evidence that the gun was pointed at Arbery in a threatening manner, because then there would have been no assault to begin with.

From my view of the video, Travis was standing near the driver's side front of the truck with a gun. It is lawful to openly carry a loaded long gun in Georgia. Arbery ran around the passenger side. But he didn't veer away. Instead, he cuts in front of the truck toward Travis. The next thing we see is Travis and Arbery on the driver's side of the truck, both holding and struggling over the gun. It appears to me that Arbery must have run right at Travis and grabbed the gun, while both were out of sight in front of the truck.

Was Travis pointing the gun at Arbery, thereby arguably assaulting him? We can't tell from the video. He and his father may testify that the gun was not pointed at Arbery. If that's the case, there will be no contrary evidence because Arbery is dead, unless there were other witnesses. If there's no evidence of pointing the gun, a rational jury can't find beyond any reasonable doubt that an assault happened. And if there's no jury finding of assault, there can be no felony murder, which is the second charge against Travis and his father.

There is no charge here of an intentional homicide. It's most likely that the firing of the gun was accidental during the struggle. But there still can be an unintended felony murder if there was a prior assault with the gun.

Of course, we don't know what Travis and his father may already have told the police. If they said Travis was pointing the gun at Arbery or some other witness says that, then Travis will probably have to rely on the citizen arrest statute to justify such assault-like behavior.

Meanwhile, making claims of intentional murder or lynching (by a retired police officer and his son), before anyone knows the legally relevant facts, is unfortunately common race baiting rhetoric by emotional people, political agitators, or lawyers.
Genero36



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PostPosted: 05/09/20 5:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Taylor Swift✔@taylorswift13
I’m absolutely devastated and horrified by the senseless, cold blooded, racially motivated killing of Ahmaud Arbery. #JusticeForAhmaud
277K
5:25 PM - May 7, 2020



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PostPosted: 05/09/20 8:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Unless Georgia's "citizen's arrest" laws are atypical to how they are written in most states, or there is some aspect of this that is being left out, that DA's reasoning is really problematic.

In every law that allows for a citizen to legally detain another that I am aware of, it requires them to be first-hand witnesses to a crime and to do so in the immediate aftermath of said crime. I know of no law that allows random people to chase down and point guns at someone else because they "match the description" of someone who may have committed an offense at some point. Citizen Arrest laws are meant to allow non-LEOs to take action and detain someone who is witnessed actively committing a crime before law enforcement can arrive. It is not a license for vigilante justice.

And that being the case, as soon as these guys pointed a gun at Mr. Arbery they have committed aggravated assault with a firearm (a felony). And you cannot claim self defense during the commission of a crime.

This also means Mr. Arbery had every right to attempt to defend himself, as having a gun pointed at you is the very definition of "reasonable fear" for one's life.


The Georgia citizen's arrest statute is quoted in the prosecutor's letter and is here. It's factually unknown whether this was a valid citizen's arrest scenario, but the statute doesn't require the crime to have been committed in the presence of the arresting citizen. He is required to have had "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion" that Arbery was attempting to escape from the commission of a felony. It's an interesting legal question as to how recent the felony has to be. There may be judicial case law on that point, which would have to be researched.

The citizens arrest statute may not be relevant if there's no evidence that the gun was pointed at Arbery in a threatening manner, because then there would have been no assault to begin with.

From my view of the video, Travis was standing near the driver's side front of the truck with a gun. It is lawful to openly carry a loaded long gun in Georgia. Arbery ran around the passenger side. But he didn't veer away. Instead, he cuts in front of the truck toward Travis. The next thing we see is Travis and Arbery on the driver's side of the truck, both holding and struggling over the gun. It appears to me that Arbery must have run right at Travis and grabbed the gun, while both were out of sight in front of the truck.

Was Travis pointing the gun at Arbery, thereby arguably assaulting him? We can't tell from the video. He and his father may testify that the gun was not pointed at Arbery. If that's the case, there will be no contrary evidence because Arbery is dead, unless there were other witnesses. If there's no evidence of pointing the gun, a rational jury can't find beyond any reasonable doubt that an assault happened. And if there's no jury finding of assault, there can be no felony murder, which is the second charge against Travis and his father.

There is no charge here of an intentional homicide. It's most likely that the firing of the gun was accidental during the struggle. But there still can be an unintended felony murder if there was a prior assault with the gun.

Of course, we don't know what Travis and his father may already have told the police. If they said Travis was pointing the gun at Arbery or some other witness says that, then Travis will probably have to rely on the citizen arrest statute to justify such assault-like behavior.

Meanwhile, making claims of intentional murder or lynching (by a retired police officer and his son), before anyone knows the legally relevant facts, is unfortunately common race baiting rhetoric by emotional people, political agitators, or lawyers.


Seems just as easy to say:

"Meanwhile, making claims of accidental shooting is unfortunately common justification for murder of black men by white men made by detached, unaffected whites, racists, or lawyers."



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Last edited by cthskzfn on 05/09/20 8:39 am; edited 1 time in total
pilight



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PostPosted: 05/09/20 8:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A black guy jogging along and minding his own business is suddenly pursued and then cut-off by armed rednecks in a pickup truck. It's entirely reasonable for him to believe his life is endangered regardless of whether the shotgun barrel is actually pointed at him.



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PostPosted: 05/09/20 2:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I could *almost* see why these assholes MIGHT be justified in shooting this man IF HE'D BEEN ON THEIR PROPERTY. He wasn't.... they simply hunted him down on their bloodthirsty hunch. Reverse the colors (2/3 black men hunting down a white jogger) and the 'decisions' made by the legal system might be decidedly different: swifter, more cut 'n dried, etc.)

HOW DO THESE WHITE BASTARDS GET TO PLACE THEMSELVES ABOVE THE LAW? Why did they not call the police? How many perps casually jog through a neighborhood AFTER they've burgled a home?? The "common sense" factor is rather low here--but that's often the case in gun-totin' 'muricans. And then there's all the *political* connections of the perps, delaying their investigation.

I cannot fathom how anyone can dig up ways to give them a 'pass' here, or offer excuses and "maybes".



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PostPosted: 05/09/20 2:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
A black guy jogging along and minding his own business


You don't know that. No one does. The facts have not been established. That's nothing more than speculation or emotional projection about the facts.

pilight wrote:
armed rednecks in a pickup truck.


The ambiguous but presumably pejorative word "redneck" adds nothing to the legal analysis. Anyone in Georgia can carry arms in their vehicle and can also openly carry a loaded long gun outside the vehicle. The issue is whether an assault with the gun was committed by the person, regardless of neck color, or not.

pilight wrote:
It's entirely reasonable for him to believe his life is endangered regardless of whether the shotgun barrel is actually pointed at him.


It's entirely reasonable for anyone to feel endangered in lots of situations, but our internal emotions don't mean, ipso facto, that someone is committing a crime against us.

An "aggravated assault" with the gun, under Georgia law, must be proved beyond any reasonable doubt for a crime to been committed in this situation. If a prosecutor does not think there is sufficient evidence for that, he or she ethically should not even bring a formal charge (indictment).

The bar for arrest is much, much lower than proof beyond reasonable doubt; it's simply evidence of "probable cause". In his letter, the original D.A. says that both he and one of his senior prosecutors concluded from the video and other evidence that there was not sufficient probable cause to arrest any of the three parties. Now, the case has been transferred to a different prosecutor and arrests have been made. That manifests a different view of probable cause. But the evidentiary bar for a grand jury indictment is much higher, and then of course there must be a trial (or plea deal). There's a long way to go, the key facts are unknown to the public although anyone can look at the video, and it's much too early to reach conclusions one way or the other.
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PostPosted: 05/09/20 10:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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PostPosted: 05/10/20 7:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9_RWnZiN1Jc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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PostPosted: 05/10/20 8:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It appears that when the McMichaels claim he matched the profile of someone who had been breaking in in the neighborhood, they are actually talking about something else. That is him stopping on his runs and looking at the house under construction. There is video released that shows him on a camera in the house and the builder had complained that he was going in. But no one has said anything about him taking anything and it isn’t shown on the video they released. Anyone can be curious about a construction project, and Arbery’s mother said he was working to be an electrician.


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PostPosted: 05/10/20 11:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GBI reviewing additional video footage in Ahmaud Arbery case

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/gbi-reviewing-new-video-footage-ahmaud-arbery-case/xvSWFTbaD0k9cr80R7CTnL/

Quote:
It is important to note that this footage was reviewed at the beginning of the GBI investigation and before the arrests of Gregory and Travis McMichael.



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PostPosted: 05/10/20 6:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:

pilight wrote:
It's entirely reasonable for him to believe his life is endangered regardless of whether the shotgun barrel is actually pointed at him.


It's entirely reasonable for anyone to feel endangered in lots of situations, but our internal emotions don't mean, ipso facto, that someone is committing a crime against us.

An "aggravated assault" with the gun, under Georgia law, must be proved beyond any reasonable doubt for a crime to been committed in this situation. If a prosecutor does not think there is sufficient evidence for that, he or she ethically should not even bring a formal charge (indictment).

The bar for arrest is much, much lower than proof beyond reasonable doubt; it's simply evidence of "probable cause". In his letter, the original D.A. says that both he and one of his senior prosecutors concluded from the video and other evidence that there was not sufficient probable cause to arrest any of the three parties. Now, the case has been transferred to a different prosecutor and arrests have been made. That manifests a different view of probable cause. But the evidentiary bar for a grand jury indictment is much higher, and then of course there must be a trial (or plea deal). There's a long way to go, the key facts are unknown to the public although anyone can look at the video, and it's much too early to reach conclusions one way or the other.


Okay, then at the very least detaining him potentially unlawfully could be be considered kidnapping, correct? Why didn't they just call the cops instead of grabbing their loaded guns and going after him? He was jogging. According to all we've heard so far, he was just jogging until they confronted him. He was on foot. All they had to do was follow and report his location.
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