RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Minneapolis Burning
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » Area 51
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8111



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/05/20 11:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
tfan wrote:
pilight wrote:
When Chauvin gets off or gets away with a slap on the wrist, the city might actually get burnt down.


He would have a good defense if he stopped as soon as Floyd passed out. It is in their manual that you can do that (there would be an argument about whether it was warranted). But he went for another 2+ minutes and continued after another officer said he couldn't feel a pulse. Not sure if true as it seems so hard to believe, but I also read that the ambulance person had to slap his leg to get him to remove his knee. He was being filmed the whole time as well and there is a still of that video where he is looking right at the camera. Seems like he lost his mind.


Also, who's going to be the a$$hole defense attorney to take on his case? I know there's some with no souls, but who's going to sign up for that?


Public defenders don't have a choice. There is always somebody defending serial killers, child molesters, rapists, etc. The private defense attorney who defended Ted Bundy also defended a guy accused of killing 16 Afghan women and children and a guy on trial for binding and shooting 13 people in a Seattle Chinatown gambling club, along with other murderers and rapists.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61471
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/07/20 7:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
pilight wrote:
No cops have lost their lives during these protests. All the death has been at the hand of the cops.


https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/federal-protective-service-officer-killed-another-injured-in-shooting-amid-protests-in-oakland/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-police-officer-shot-head/


I did mean to come back to this. The first one isn't a cop and the second one isn't dead. No cops have been killed in these protests. Unfortunately, we can't say the same for the protesters.



_________________
The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61471
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/07/20 9:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Also, who's going to be the a$$hole defense attorney to take on his case? I know there's some with no souls, but who's going to sign up for that?


I was just thinking I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor on this case. If you accept a plea bargain that doesn't have significant prison time, Minneapolis will get burnt to the ground (along with some other cities). If you go to trial, you risk the Rodney King cops verdict.



_________________
The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61471
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/07/20 9:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why health insurers may not cover treatment for injuries at protests

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-some-health-insurers-may-not-cover-treatment-for-injuries-sustained-at-protests-2020-06-04

Quote:
“If you went to a peaceful protest and someone shot a rubber bullet and it hit you, you didn’t intend to go to a riot,” she said. But the insurance company might not see it that way, Corlette noted. “In this context, most individuals involved intended to go to peaceful protest. The fact that it became violent isn’t their intention.”



_________________
The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8111



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/07/20 11:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Why health insurers may not cover treatment for injuries at protests

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-some-health-insurers-may-not-cover-treatment-for-injuries-sustained-at-protests-2020-06-04

Quote:
“If you went to a peaceful protest and someone shot a rubber bullet and it hit you, you didn’t intend to go to a riot,” she said. But the insurance company might not see it that way, Corlette noted. “In this context, most individuals involved intended to go to peaceful protest. The fact that it became violent isn’t their intention.”


Is there a clause in health insurance that allows them to deny for how the injury happened - as in it was “your fault”? Like if a 75 year old with a bad knee and arthritis went jumping on his grandson’s trampoline and tore an ACL it can be denied?

There is a case in San Jose where a black man who had worked with the police on something like their interaction with non-white communities got hit in the groin with a rubber bullet. It caused damage that sent him to the hospital and it may cause him not to be able to have kids. The police are told not to aim for the face or groin. In this case he was refusing to follow an order by a phalanx of cops who were clearing the area, and at least one of them appeared to be getting very annoyed, as in might intentionally shoot in the groin. But an insurance company - if they can fight it - could argue he wouldn’t have been injured if he had moved.

It is a good case of how policy could be changed to modify police behavior. If they were told to wait out a situation like that - take all the time that is necessary as he isn’t going to stand there all night - then they won’t be as angered if they are not obeyed. I don’t know why they were clearing the area - this is a city where the police were told to “stand down” when Trump had a rally here, allowing people to attack the Trump rally goers as they entered and exited. But it may have been at the point that the protesters started throwing water bottles and things at the cops. One went down from getting hit.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 1967



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/07/20 11:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Is there a clause in health insurance that allows them to deny for how the injury happened - as in it was “your fault”? Like if a 75 year old with a bad knee and arthritis went jumping on his grandson’s trampoline and tore an ACL it can be denied?


Generally, no. A substantial number of health care claims are due to something that's the patient's fault, from subsisting on Big Macs to suicide attempts. However, a lot of other insurance policies, e.g. life, auto, and liability, exclude coverage for injuries that occurred due to criminal activity, war, riots, felonies, etc. So I’m not surprised health policies have similar exclusions.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8111



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/07/20 2:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Watch as Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey is Booed Out of BLM Protest to Chants of ‘Go Home, Jacob, Go Home!’

Quote:
A protester asked Frey a yes or no question: would he commit to defunding the Minneapolis Police Department? The mayor’s answer did not satisfy the female protester, prompting her to tell him to “get the fuck outta here.”


I had heard “defund the police” as being taking some of the money that goes to them and re-directing it to other areas. But when the mayor (inaudible) appears to ask for clarification on what is given to him as a yes/no question, the questioner says “What did I say? We don’t want no more police. Is that clear? We don’t want people with guns driving around our communities. Shooting us...” Two city council members have vowed to “dismantle” the police department. That word may leave them room to just cut the budget.

But I live on a city where the police just didn’t get the budget increases they were looking for. As a result I think they intentionally cut their service for non-emergency calls (service is below what they likely have the manpower to provide) in an attempt to get the budget they want. As an example, my complex had video of a guy stealing an expensive bicycle from a caged in rack, and they had no interest in coming out and looking and investigating. Just too busy...


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 1967



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/07/20 6:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Watch as Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey is Booed Out of BLM Protest to Chants of ‘Go Home, Jacob, Go Home!’

Quote:
A protester asked Frey a yes or no question: would he commit to defunding the Minneapolis Police Department? The mayor’s answer did not satisfy the female protester, prompting her to tell him to “get the fuck outta here.”


I had heard “defund the police” as being taking some of the money that goes to them and re-directing it to other areas. But when the mayor (inaudible) appears to ask for clarification on what is given to him as a yes/no question, the questioner says “What did I say? We don’t want no more police. Is that clear? We don’t want people with guns driving around our communities. Shooting us...” Two city council members have vowed to “dismantle” the police department. That word may leave them room to just cut the budget.

But I live on a city where the police just didn’t get the budget increases they were looking for. As a result I think they intentionally cut their service for non-emergency calls (service is below what they likely have the manpower to provide) in an attempt to get the budget they want. As an example, my complex had video of a guy stealing an expensive bicycle from a caged in rack, and they had no interest in coming out and looking and investigating. Just too busy...


Defunding the police means the things that will get cut are coverage for property and drug crimes and community outreach programs, which present opportunities for improving relationships with the public. And that guy in your post or his neighbors will be asking "Where's the police when we need them? They only respond to white communities."


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20399



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/07/20 7:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In LA, the mayor, not normally the craftiest bird, threw the movement an empty PR victory bone. With the impact the coronavirus shutdown has had on city and state coffers, the talk when George Floyd was alive was all about the complete gutting of funding to so many departments and services. Seriously unprecedented draconian belt tightening unlike anything ever in California history, even the last time a Republican was in office. Twisted Evil

So in promising to cut police funding, standing their in front of BLM leaders and nodding your head obediently? In LA, the number being kicked around to shave from the LAPD was likely to have beEn 150 million six weeks ago.



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61471
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/07/20 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Minneapolis Police Department To Be Dismantled Over George Floyd's Death

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/minneapolis-police-department-in-us-to-be-dismantled-after-black-man-george-floyds-death-city-council-2242362

Quote:
Council Member Alondra Cano tweeted that the decision came through "a veto-proof majority of the MPLS City Council," which agreed that the police department "is not reformable and that we're going to end the current policing system."



_________________
The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 13031
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/07/20 8:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Minneapolis Police Department To Be Dismantled Over George Floyd's Death

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/minneapolis-police-department-in-us-to-be-dismantled-after-black-man-george-floyds-death-city-council-2242362

Quote:
Council Member Alondra Cano tweeted that the decision came through "a veto-proof majority of the MPLS City Council," which agreed that the police department "is not reformable and that we're going to end the current policing system."


Well, abolishment ONE kind of reform. Shocked



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8111



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/07/20 9:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:


Defunding the police means the things that will get cut are coverage for property and drug crimes and community outreach programs, which present opportunities for improving relationships with the public. And that guy in your post or his neighbors will be asking "Where's the police when we need them? They only respond to white communities."


I am in San Jose, California. We probably won't have any issue with regard to special treatment for white communities as I don't know if there are any areas in the city that could be considered a white community. The whole city was 42.8% white in 2010 (total population 945,952) , but only 28.7% non-Hispanic white. I have to assume the latter number will be lower in 2020 as it has been declining for decades.


justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8270
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/07/20 11:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cops caught on video slashing tires of reporters at Minnesota protests. Lots of reports of them doing this to reporters' and protesters' cars alike.

And people wonder why the community has zero trust in law enforcement and how we got to the point where many are seriously considering something so extreme as to burn down the whole system and build something new on its ashes.



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61471
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/08/20 12:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Cops caught on video slashing tires of reporters at Minnesota protests. Lots of reports of them doing this to reporters' and protesters' cars alike.

And people wonder why the community has zero trust in law enforcement and how we got to the point where many are seriously considering something so extreme as to burn down the whole system and build something new on its ashes.


Since the city council has told them they're all going to be out of a job soon, I'd expect it to get worse.



_________________
The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 4404
Location: Carson City


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/08/20 6:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The issue of defunding police is obviously complex. Over the past 20 years the role of police has grown dramatically. Get police out of schools, I agree, but what takes its place. Get police and jails out of mental health and alcohol and drug abuse, but what takes its place.

I agree that the police should not have been militarized; repurposing tanks and other tools of war was a mistake and that should be undone for all but the most serious situations. I agree that the Rehnquist standard that gave rise to institutional immunity (Graham vs. Connor) must be tightened. I also believe that chokeholds and other similar police tactics should be banned. And I believe that police accountability must be increased through civilian review boards, public information on complaints and perhaps even a 3 strikes policy on officer misconduct.

But overall I believe defunding of the police is very likely to create more, not fewer, problems. Accountability costs money, training costs money, and getting more competent police costs money.


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22169



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/08/20 8:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's a very slippery slope each town & city are facing right now. I do not think disbanding the police is the answer, but reducing their budget can be key. There also needs be a total overall of the police force. If you have X amount of infractions, it should be like any other job - suspended without pay, then termination.



_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 13031
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/08/20 10:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I found this piece on pbs to be very enlightening.

I wasn't really clear on how to perceive the 'defunding' theories, but this gal in Chicago made a LOT of sense. And the $$$ figures tossed about are mind-numbing....I'd think there are some better ways to funnel that money into more productive channels than *just* Policing as we know it.



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 1967



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/08/20 11:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
I found this piece on pbs to be very enlightening.

I wasn't really clear on how to perceive the 'defunding' theories, but this gal in Chicago made a LOT of sense. And the $$$ figures tossed about are mind-numbing....I'd think there are some better ways to funnel that money into more productive channels than *just* Policing as we know it.


I'm not sure how "community policing" is the sole answer. Who responds to an emergency call for armed robbery, a rape in progress, a woman who's locked in a bathroom with a spouse with a butcher knife on the other side of the door? Or even worse, drug cartels and terrorists with assault weapons? Who has the training and experience to investigate murders and rapes? If someone's trying to break down my front door, I want to call the police and not neighborhood watch.

As for funding, I'd bet all the training and budgets for the extra drug rehabs, mental health programs, and community policing will cost as much as a current police dept, and once this dust settles, I'd also bet we can't find enough people who want to be police officers or counselors, let alone trained ones.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61471
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/09/20 7:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
If someone's trying to break down my front door, I want to call the police and not neighborhood watch.


You'll be long dead by the time they get there. If someone's trying to break down your front door, you need a weapon.



_________________
The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 11188



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/09/20 9:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="660" height="371" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EagEWcB3d-4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://youtu.be/EagEWcB3d-4



_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 13031
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/09/20 11:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Howee wrote:
I found this piece on pbs to be very enlightening.

I wasn't really clear on how to perceive the 'defunding' theories, but this gal in Chicago made a LOT of sense. And the $$$ figures tossed about are mind-numbing....I'd think there are some better ways to funnel that money into more productive channels than *just* Policing as we know it.


I'm not sure how "community policing" is the sole answer. Who responds to an emergency call for armed robbery, a rape in progress, a woman who's locked in a bathroom with a spouse with a butcher knife on the other side of the door? Or even worse, drug cartels and terrorists with assault weapons? Who has the training and experience to investigate murders and rapes? If someone's trying to break down my front door, I want to call the police and not neighborhood watch.

As for funding, I'd bet all the training and budgets for the extra drug rehabs, mental health programs, and community policing will cost as much as a current police dept, and once this dust settles, I'd also bet we can't find enough people who want to be police officers or counselors, let alone trained ones.


Ya. It's definitely a complex problem that cannot be solved overnight, certainly not by merely re-allocating funds to 'feel-good' programs. BUT....it must be admitted: HUGE bucks are being sucked away by a system that is HARDLY working well. There's got to be a multi-level program reform, imo.

Like you, I want a police officer to come when I need them. But I live in a rural setting where that's, like, NEVER a need (I did have the cops come out one time, when a neighbor's dog killed some of my poultry for a second time, and didn't want to compensate me. Both officers were very helpful. Razz) .

The large urban forces need to be re-thought, and re-constructed.



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20399



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/09/20 3:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To be perfectly frank, some of that stuff I think could work and some of it is long overdue.

And on sort of another related thing, there’s a concern that the police are going to “pull back.” And yeah that’s going to happen. But that’s actually something that you can work with if you design into your revamped policy and procedures exactly how and where you WANT them to pull back.

But I’m not going to tell you guys my actual thoughts on any of this. I’m just going to leave you hanging.



_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61471
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/09/20 8:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No more Cops!

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/cops-canceled-paramount-network-1234629637/

Quote:
“‘Cops’ is not on the Paramount Network and we don’t have any current or future plans for it to return,” a Paramount Network spokesperson said in a statement.



_________________
The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8111



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/09/20 9:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
No more Cops!

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/cops-canceled-paramount-network-1234629637/

Quote:
“‘Cops’ is not on the Paramount Network and we don’t have any current or future plans for it to return,” a Paramount Network spokesperson said in a statement.


It's been a long time since I saw that show, but I felt the cops came off much better than the criminals on that show. But maybe that is the bad point.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61471
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/09/20 9:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
pilight wrote:
No more Cops!

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/cops-canceled-paramount-network-1234629637/

Quote:
“‘Cops’ is not on the Paramount Network and we don’t have any current or future plans for it to return,” a Paramount Network spokesperson said in a statement.


It's been a long time since I saw that show, but I felt the cops came off much better than the criminals on that show. But maybe that is the bad point.


The producers let the cops edit out anything that would cast them in a negative light.



_________________
The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » Area 51 All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 6 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin