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bcdawg04



Joined: 12 Apr 2016
Posts: 562
Location: Seattle


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PostPosted: 09/23/21 6:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When hospitals have to start rationing care, they prioritize those who are more likely to survive. At some point this means that the vaccinated COVID patients may take priority over the nonvaccinated.

I agree that it's a slippery slope to draw a line and try to exclude people from healthcare based on their choice not to get vaccinated. The unvaccinated, however, should have to pay more for health insurance. We can't bring back the lives they've cost by spreading COVID and allowing deadlier mutations to arise, but we can and should charge them more for health insurance.

I saw a post a few weeks ago about the hospital costs for COVID and I had to look it up again. It's from Representative Jayapal.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CTNEo21tOe4/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=f8c69bcc-38ef-4eca-9637-bb7f9605a6e8

Quote:
The average hospital stay for a case of COVID-19 costs about $17,064.

The vaccine is free.


I thought this was an interesting Fact Check by PolitiFact

Her statement was rated as Mostly True because of the large range; the $17k is likely on the low end of average.

It's too bad we don't have a better sense of the importance of preventative care.


DivaORcat16



Joined: 13 May 2020
Posts: 45



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PostPosted: 09/23/21 7:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I can't agree with you on that. I'm not trying to be pig-headed but until everyone is okay with their insurance company knowing EVERY choice people make that can effect their health, I don't see how denying treatment based on vaccination is acceptable.

What if two people show up for treatment at the hospital with ONE bed left, both with Covid symptoms, both fully vaccinated and in the same condition.

BUT

- one is young 30's and 5'6" 300 pounds, great insurance

-The other is 70, with no underlying conditions, doesn't drink, never smoked, ran marathons until knee surgery two years before. No insurance

Who would get treatment first or not at all?

I just think there can be too many variables to start denying treatment based on a SINGLE reason, vaccinated vs. unvaccinated.

Would you want a price limit put on treatment? For anyone?

Vaccinated people CAN STILL SPREAD COVID!


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3510



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PostPosted: 09/23/21 8:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bcdawg04 wrote:
When hospitals have to start rationing care, they prioritize those who are more likely to survive. At some point this means that the vaccinated COVID patients may take priority over the nonvaccinated.

I agree that it's a slippery slope to draw a line and try to exclude people from healthcare based on their choice not to get vaccinated. The unvaccinated, however, should have to pay more for health insurance. We can't bring back the lives they've cost by spreading COVID and allowing deadlier mutations to arise, but we can and should charge them more for health insurance.

I saw a post a few weeks ago about the hospital costs for COVID and I had to look it up again. It's from Representative Jayapal.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CTNEo21tOe4/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=f8c69bcc-38ef-4eca-9637-bb7f9605a6e8

Quote:
The average hospital stay for a case of COVID-19 costs about $17,064.

The vaccine is free.


I thought this was an interesting Fact Check by PolitiFact

Her statement was rated as Mostly True because of the large range; the $17k is likely on the low end of average.

It's too bad we don't have a better sense of the importance of preventative care.


It's my understanding that it's illegal to charge anti-vaxxers higher insurance premiums.

Quote:
“Since the passage of HIPAA in 1996, insurers may not discriminate against individuals for plan eligibility, premiums or coverage based on a health-related factor.”

The article said, “The passage of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) in 2009 went even further: Insurers cannot vary premiums based on health status, gender, race or disability, among other factors.”

Health insurance reporter Louise Norris said, “It would be hard for insurers to get around these legal regulations to implement discriminatory pricing policies.” Norris added, "I can't think of a way that they could single out groups of employees who weren't vaccinated and target them for higher premiums."


https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/08/28/deltas-extra-200-monthly-healthcare-surcharge-to-unvaccinated-airline-workers-may-have-serious-unintended-consequences/


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8833



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PostPosted: 09/23/21 9:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
bcdawg04 wrote:
When hospitals have to start rationing care, they prioritize those who are more likely to survive. At some point this means that the vaccinated COVID patients may take priority over the nonvaccinated.

I agree that it's a slippery slope to draw a line and try to exclude people from healthcare based on their choice not to get vaccinated. The unvaccinated, however, should have to pay more for health insurance. We can't bring back the lives they've cost by spreading COVID and allowing deadlier mutations to arise, but we can and should charge them more for health insurance.

I saw a post a few weeks ago about the hospital costs for COVID and I had to look it up again. It's from Representative Jayapal.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CTNEo21tOe4/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=f8c69bcc-38ef-4eca-9637-bb7f9605a6e8

Quote:
The average hospital stay for a case of COVID-19 costs about $17,064.

The vaccine is free.


I thought this was an interesting Fact Check by PolitiFact

Her statement was rated as Mostly True because of the large range; the $17k is likely on the low end of average.

It's too bad we don't have a better sense of the importance of preventative care.


It's my understanding that it's illegal to charge anti-vaxxers higher insurance premiums.

Quote:
“Since the passage of HIPAA in 1996, insurers may not discriminate against individuals for plan eligibility, premiums or coverage based on a health-related factor.”

The article said, “The passage of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) in 2009 went even further: Insurers cannot vary premiums based on health status, gender, race or disability, among other factors.”

Health insurance reporter Louise Norris said, “It would be hard for insurers to get around these legal regulations to implement discriminatory pricing policies.” Norris added, "I can't think of a way that they could single out groups of employees who weren't vaccinated and target them for higher premiums."


https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/08/28/deltas-extra-200-monthly-healthcare-surcharge-to-unvaccinated-airline-workers-may-have-serious-unintended-consequences/


Insurance companies can't charge a higher premium, but the employer can put an additional charge on the employee. That's what Delta did. They were going to start charging unvaxxed employees an extra$200/month. Said that the average cost of a COVID hospitalization was something like $50,000.



_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3510



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PostPosted: 09/23/21 10:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
bcdawg04 wrote:
When hospitals have to start rationing care, they prioritize those who are more likely to survive. At some point this means that the vaccinated COVID patients may take priority over the nonvaccinated.

I agree that it's a slippery slope to draw a line and try to exclude people from healthcare based on their choice not to get vaccinated. The unvaccinated, however, should have to pay more for health insurance. We can't bring back the lives they've cost by spreading COVID and allowing deadlier mutations to arise, but we can and should charge them more for health insurance.

I saw a post a few weeks ago about the hospital costs for COVID and I had to look it up again. It's from Representative Jayapal.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CTNEo21tOe4/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=f8c69bcc-38ef-4eca-9637-bb7f9605a6e8

Quote:
The average hospital stay for a case of COVID-19 costs about $17,064.

The vaccine is free.


I thought this was an interesting Fact Check by PolitiFact

Her statement was rated as Mostly True because of the large range; the $17k is likely on the low end of average.

It's too bad we don't have a better sense of the importance of preventative care.


It's my understanding that it's illegal to charge anti-vaxxers higher insurance premiums.

Quote:
“Since the passage of HIPAA in 1996, insurers may not discriminate against individuals for plan eligibility, premiums or coverage based on a health-related factor.”

The article said, “The passage of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) in 2009 went even further: Insurers cannot vary premiums based on health status, gender, race or disability, among other factors.”

Health insurance reporter Louise Norris said, “It would be hard for insurers to get around these legal regulations to implement discriminatory pricing policies.” Norris added, "I can't think of a way that they could single out groups of employees who weren't vaccinated and target them for higher premiums."


https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/08/28/deltas-extra-200-monthly-healthcare-surcharge-to-unvaccinated-airline-workers-may-have-serious-unintended-consequences/


Insurance companies can't charge a higher premium, but the employer can put an additional charge on the employee. That's what Delta did. They were going to start charging unvaxxed employees an extra$200/month. Said that the average cost of a COVID hospitalization was something like $50,000.


I believe that's going to be challenged because Delta is self-insured, making it unclear whether the $200 is a premium increase by an insurer or a surcharge by an employer. I don't claim to understand the finer points here.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15690
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 09/25/21 7:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It appears the 'natural immunity' debate is arising in a pubic way.



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Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8833



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PostPosted: 09/26/21 10:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here's a couple of reasons for not getting vaxxed that I hadn't heard - the vaccine is the "mark of the beast" and zombies.

Quote:
"The Bible speaks of someone identified as the 'Antichrist' and he will require people have a 'mark' that people will receive to buy and sell," (Pastor Greg)Laurie told USA TODAY in an email.

"The COVID-19 vaccine — or any vaccines — have nothing to do with any of this."

Laurie, who has been vaccinated, said the mark will be a pledge of loyalty to the Antichrist and no one will take the mark unknowingly.

"In Revelation 14, we learn that those who take the mark are doomed," he said. "God will not doom people for taking something unwittingly."



I love this guy!
Quote:
(ER doctor Stephen) Smith said one woman had brought her child in for a fever and cough, and he explained that the toddler might have COVID-19. When he asked the mother if she had been vaccinated, Smith said her response was, "Oh no that turns you into a zombie."

Other reasons Smith has heard for not getting vaccinated include: not wanting to get microchipped, outside of their world view, the vaccine was developed too fast, haven't gotten sick yet, not high-risk, they don't trust the government and reading that people have died from the vaccine.

"Social media plays a 100% role in the misconceptions about the vaccine," Smith said. " They get all their information off Facebook and get all this garbage."

"Anyone who is telling you not to get the vaccine is either lying to you or an idiot, or a combination of the two."


I had a co-worker tell me the other day that he wasn't going to get vaxxed because of the microchipping that occurs. 🙄

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/09/26/covid-vaccine-mark-beast-what-book-revelation-says/8255268002/



_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15690
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 09/28/21 3:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Political Divide graphically shown in a NYT article.

Quote:
In an article this month for Breitbart, the right-wing website formerly run by Steve Bannon, John Nolte argued that the partisan gap in vaccination rates was part of a liberal plot. Liberals like Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Anthony Fauci and Howard Stern have tried so hard to persuade people to get vaccinated, because they know that Republican voters will do the opposite of whatever they say, Nolte wrote. Razz

His argument is certainly bizarre, given that Democratic politicians have been imploring all Americans to get vaccinated and many Republican politicians have not. But Nolte did offer a glimpse at a creeping political fear among some Republicans. “Right now, a countless number of Trump supporters believe they are owning the left by refusing to take a lifesaving vaccine,” Nolte wrote. “In a country where elections are decided on razor-thin margins, does it not benefit one side if their opponents simply drop dead?”



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8833



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PostPosted: 10/08/21 10:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Got my booster today. Had to go two counties away to find it. No place locally had Pfizer vaccine, only Moderna and J&J. Biggest problems I had were getting stuck in traffic and having to turn around like 4x. I was surprised that they didn't ask me anything about what qualified me to get it.

Now I just have to get my flu shot.



_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8833



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PostPosted: 10/08/21 10:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
At a time when the surgeon general says misinformation has become an urgent threat to public health, an investigation by The Associated Press found a vocal and influential group of chiropractors has been capitalizing on the pandemic by sowing fear and mistrust of vaccines.

Quote:
They have touted their supplements as alternatives to vaccines, written doctor’s notes to allow patients to get out of mask and immunization mandates, donated large sums of money to anti-vaccine organizations and sold anti-vaccine ads on Facebook and Instagram, the AP discovered.

Quote:
The first complaint the Federal Trade Commission filed under the COVID-19 Consumer Protection Act was in April against a Missouri chiropractor. It alleges he falsely advertised that “vaccines do not stop the spread of the virus,” but that supplements he sold for $24 per bottle plus $9.95 shipping did. He says he did not advertise his supplements that way and is fighting the allegations in court.

https://www.wishtv.com/news/national/anti-vaccine-chiropractors-rising-force-of-misinformation/



_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3510



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PostPosted: 10/09/21 7:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Quote:
At a time when the surgeon general says misinformation has become an urgent threat to public health, an investigation by The Associated Press found a vocal and influential group of chiropractors has been capitalizing on the pandemic by sowing fear and mistrust of vaccines.

Quote:
They have touted their supplements as alternatives to vaccines, written doctor’s notes to allow patients to get out of mask and immunization mandates, donated large sums of money to anti-vaccine organizations and sold anti-vaccine ads on Facebook and Instagram, the AP discovered.

Quote:
The first complaint the Federal Trade Commission filed under the COVID-19 Consumer Protection Act was in April against a Missouri chiropractor. It alleges he falsely advertised that “vaccines do not stop the spread of the virus,” but that supplements he sold for $24 per bottle plus $9.95 shipping did. He says he did not advertise his supplements that way and is fighting the allegations in court.

https://www.wishtv.com/news/national/anti-vaccine-chiropractors-rising-force-of-misinformation/


Three quarters of the so-called "Disinformation Dozen," a select group responsible for an estimated 69% of the anti-vaxxer rhetoric on the internet, are chiropractors, osteopaths, naturopaths, and health food promoters who also make millions by selling their products and books. (The others are RFK Jr and "social media influencers." )


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8833



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PostPosted: 10/18/21 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Washington State football coach fired for refusing to get vaxxed. Shocked Guess they called his bluff! He is still on the website.

Quote:
Washington State has fired football coach Nick Rolovich after he declined to get vaccinated against COVID-19 despite a state mandate that required it unless he was approved for an exemption.

Two people with knowledge of the decision confirmed it to USA TODAY Sports but did not want to be named because they were not authorized to speak publicly about it. Four assistant coaches also were fired Monday as vaccinated defensive coordinator Jake Dickert got tapped to become interim head coach, the two people said.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2021/10/18/nick-rolovich-fired-washington-state-vaccine-mandate/8471488002/



_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66772
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 10/26/21 10:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Got my booster today!



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Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15690
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 10/26/21 12:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Got my booster today!


Excellent. I got mine this past Friday....felt a bit *punky* over the weekend, but all better now. Cool [/quote]



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Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16346
Location: Chicago


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PostPosted: 10/26/21 2:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
pilight wrote:
Got my booster today!


Excellent. I got mine this past Friday....felt a bit *punky* over the weekend, but all better now. Cool
[/quote]

I get mine tomorrow Very Happy


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8833



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PostPosted: 10/26/21 11:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Howee wrote:
pilight wrote:
Got my booster today!


Excellent. I got mine this past Friday....felt a bit *punky* over the weekend, but all better now. Cool


I get mine tomorrow Very Happy


Congratulations everyone!! I got my booster on the 8th. I felt fine except for the soreness at the injection site. This time I had a fairly large red mark (like 2 quarters laid side-by-side) that became a large, hard lump and bruise that I can still faintly see.

I get my flu shot around noon Wednesday. I think I'll go with the other arm this time. Laughing



_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8151
Location: Heisenberg


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PostPosted: 11/01/21 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Published two days ago and excluding some controversial studies, another meta-analysis -- this time of 64 studies -- confirms robust effects of Ivermectin as a therapeutic and prophylactic for Covid.

Quote:
• Meta analysis using the most serious outcome reported shows 67% [53‑76%] and 86% [75‑92%] improvement for early treatment and prophylaxis . . . .

• Statistically significant improvements are seen for mortality, ventilation, ICU admission, hospitalization, recovery, cases, and viral clearance. . . .

• Results are very robust . . . .


Thus, so far, unapproved Ivermectin has been shown to be at least as robust, based on 64 studies, as three approved therapeutics have been, based on one study each.

FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3510



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PostPosted: 11/01/21 8:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What journal was that published in? Was it peer-reviewed or just a pre-print?

ivmmeta.com, c19ivermectin.com, c19hcq.com, hcqmeta.com, et al are a bunch of sites where anonymous uncredentialed people post flawed, unpublished, non-peer-reviewed studies to support ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine use and anti-vax positions.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8151
Location: Heisenberg


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PostPosted: 11/03/21 8:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My wife and I got our third shots in September, before boosters were approved, under the self-attestation procedure for a third shot if you had one of eight CDC conditions including a compromised immune system. All old folks, it is arguable, have compromised immune systems.

This resulted in my wife's getting twice the dose of Moderna that was subsequently approved for the Moderna booster.

There is still so much science about Covid that is not only unsettled, but is untested and unexplored, including the efficacy, durability and side-effect danger of the various vaccines. (This is due, in large part in my opinion, to the failure of the CDC and NIH to engage in active medical research and experimentation with our tax money instead just just passively sitting around in offices or, worse, playing public politics.) However, it is my personal judgment that vaccines, including boosters, are far less dangerous for old people than not getting a vaccine, so I strongly encourage vaccines for old and other high risk people.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9542



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PostPosted: 11/06/21 6:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
The Political Divide graphically shown in a NYT article.

Quote:
In an article this month for Breitbart, the right-wing website formerly run by Steve Bannon, John Nolte argued that the partisan gap in vaccination rates was part of a liberal plot. Liberals like Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Anthony Fauci and Howard Stern have tried so hard to persuade people to get vaccinated, because they know that Republican voters will do the opposite of whatever they say, Nolte wrote. Razz

His argument is certainly bizarre, given that Democratic politicians have been imploring all Americans to get vaccinated and many Republican politicians have not. But Nolte did offer a glimpse at a creeping political fear among some Republicans. “Right now, a countless number of Trump supporters believe they are owning the left by refusing to take a lifesaving vaccine,” Nolte wrote. “In a country where elections are decided on razor-thin margins, does it not benefit one side if their opponents simply drop dead?”


How does pointing out that Democratic politicians say to get vaccinated and Republican politicians do not, refute the claim that Republicans are not getting vaccinated because Democrats (political and celebrity) are telling them too?


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9542



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PostPosted: 11/06/21 6:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I feel sorry for all the people who are digging in so much on not getting vaccinated that they are willing to quit their job over it. If there wasn't social-media/email I don't think there would be this issue since there are these rumors that get spread far and wide and repeated over and over via Facebook and the like. about the vaccine being harmful, or over-emphasizing the lack of normal testing. And ditto for rumors about treatments like ivermectin ("It's doing wonders in India!").


COVID vaccines: Half of unvaccinated Americans say NOTHING will change their minds


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15690
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 11/06/21 9:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Howee wrote:
The Political Divide graphically shown in a NYT article.

Quote:
In an article this month for Breitbart, the right-wing website formerly run by Steve Bannon, John Nolte argued that the partisan gap in vaccination rates was part of a liberal plot. Liberals like Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Anthony Fauci and Howard Stern have tried so hard to persuade people to get vaccinated, because they know that Republican voters will do the opposite of whatever they say, Nolte wrote. Razz

His argument is certainly bizarre, given that Democratic politicians have been imploring all Americans to get vaccinated and many Republican politicians have not. But Nolte did offer a glimpse at a creeping political fear among some Republicans. “Right now, a countless number of Trump supporters believe they are owning the left by refusing to take a lifesaving vaccine,” Nolte wrote. “In a country where elections are decided on razor-thin margins, does it not benefit one side if their opponents simply drop dead?”


How does pointing out that Democratic politicians say to get vaccinated and Republican politicians do not, refute the claim that Republicans are not getting vaccinated because Democrats (political and celebrity) are telling them too?


There's no 'refuting' in this point. It's merely demonstrating how obstinate and pig-headed people can be: It's now beyond the idea that Dems genuinely WANT everyone to get vaccinated (so we won't cuz we don't do what *they* tell us to do) -- now, if the Dems say you should get vaccinated, they're hoping you DON'T, so you die. It's a perverse/reverse psychology thing, fit for a 3 year old.



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8833



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PostPosted: 11/06/21 7:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
I feel sorry for all the people who are digging in so much on not getting vaccinated that they are willing to quit their job over it. If there wasn't social-media/email I don't think there would be this issue since there are these rumors that get spread far and wide and repeated over and over via Facebook and the like. about the vaccine being harmful, or over-emphasizing the lack of normal testing. And ditto for rumors about treatments like ivermectin ("It's doing wonders in India!").


COVID vaccines: Half of unvaccinated Americans say NOTHING will change their minds


Don't forget the lying idiot that is Aaron Rodgers.



_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9542



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PostPosted: 11/06/21 10:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
tfan wrote:
Howee wrote:
The Political Divide graphically shown in a NYT article.

Quote:
In an article this month for Breitbart, the right-wing website formerly run by Steve Bannon, John Nolte argued that the partisan gap in vaccination rates was part of a liberal plot. Liberals like Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Anthony Fauci and Howard Stern have tried so hard to persuade people to get vaccinated, because they know that Republican voters will do the opposite of whatever they say, Nolte wrote. Razz

His argument is certainly bizarre, given that Democratic politicians have been imploring all Americans to get vaccinated and many Republican politicians have not. But Nolte did offer a glimpse at a creeping political fear among some Republicans. “Right now, a countless number of Trump supporters believe they are owning the left by refusing to take a lifesaving vaccine,” Nolte wrote. “In a country where elections are decided on razor-thin margins, does it not benefit one side if their opponents simply drop dead?”


How does pointing out that Democratic politicians say to get vaccinated and Republican politicians do not, refute the claim that Republicans are not getting vaccinated because Democrats (political and celebrity) are telling them too?


There's no 'refuting' in this point. It's merely demonstrating how obstinate and pig-headed people can be: It's now beyond the idea that Dems genuinely WANT everyone to get vaccinated (so we won't cuz we don't do what *they* tell us to do) -- now, if the Dems say you should get vaccinated, they're hoping you DON'T, so you die. It's a perverse/reverse psychology thing, fit for a 3 year old.


If he wasn't refuting an argument I don't think he should have started with "His argument is certainly bizarre, given that..".


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15690
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 11/06/21 10:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
If he wasn't refuting an argument I don't think he should have started with "His argument is certainly bizarre, given that..".

John Nolt was stating an argument/rationale that WAS bizarre, and I don't think he was refuting anything: he was just twisting and contorting already skewed conspiracy theories into more twists and contortions.



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