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| Which player was most overvalued in the draft |
| Alarie (#5) |
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14% |
[ 8 ] |
| Herbert Harrigan (#6) |
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42% |
[ 24 ] |
| Willoughby (#10) |
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5% |
[ 3 ] |
| Laksa (#11) |
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17% |
[ 10 ] |
| JJones (#12) |
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7% |
[ 4 ] |
| Doyle (#14) |
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8% |
[ 5 ] |
| Odom (#15) |
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3% |
[ 2 ] |
| Agnew (#24) |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Manis (#33) |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 57 |
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| Author |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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 Posted: 04/18/20 8:09 pm ::: Most overvalued |
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Which drafted player was the most overvalued (drafted too high).
14-day poll
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UK1996
Joined: 03 Sep 2015
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| Posted: 04/18/20 8:37 pm ::: |
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| I like an underdog story so I’m pulling for Manis to make the roster and pull a Candace Parker like MVP-ROY season.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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| Posted: 04/19/20 12:17 am ::: |
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| Someone should make a dance called the Mad Kiki!
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014
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| Posted: 04/19/20 8:44 am ::: |
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| Kiki May be getting a raw deal. She played on the number 1 team in the country under Dawn. That seems to have been forgotten with all the Oregon hype. She played in a tough league and also played against the top teams for 4 years and practiced against A’ja for 2. Tell me again who Alarie has played against in comparison? Having just watched some videos, which were hard to find btws as their schedule is weak, I am feeling that Kiki is getting shafted.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 04/19/20 10:57 am ::: |
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| bballjunkie wrote: |
| Kiki May be getting a raw deal. She played on the number 1 team in the country under Dawn. That seems to have been forgotten with all the Oregon hype. She played in a tough league and also played against the top teams for 4 years and practiced against A’ja for 2. Tell me again who Alarie has played against in comparison? Having just watched some videos, which were hard to find btws as their schedule is weak, I am feeling that Kiki is getting shafted. |
I don't think it has anything to do with Alarie as to why she's getting a raw deal from those of us on the outside. I think Alarie demonstrates what teams were actually looking for verus what the mock drafters were penciling in for teams.
Alarie and Kiki both fit the mold of floor stretching players who can play/defend multiple positions. Teams are really starting to covet players like this, so as we get outside the "sure thing" picks that everyone pretty much agrees on and move into the fliers where you are looking at upside and development, these at the players that are going to have a lot of value. Since I wanted Alarie at #6 and give the Wings a ton of credit for vulturing her at #5, I think Kiki makes a ton of sense at 6. She would have been gone at 8 to the Sky according to post draft interviews if the Lynx hadn't taken her there.
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/19/20 11:05 am ::: |
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| bballjunkie wrote: |
| Kiki May be getting a raw deal. She played on the number 1 team in the country under Dawn. That seems to have been forgotten with all the Oregon hype. She played in a tough league and also played against the top teams for 4 years and practiced against A’ja for 2. Tell me again who Alarie has played against in comparison? Having just watched some videos, which were hard to find btws as their schedule is weak, I am feeling that Kiki is getting shafted. |
One thing that I take into account is that there is no denying the quality of play in WCBB took a sharp turn down this year. The 2018 & 2019 draft classes were loaded with talent and the teams were just not as good. If this was the 2018 or 2019 drafts, there is no way Alarie, Harris, and HH were top 6 picks. Like, none.
And as for HH, she had one good season, her senior year, in a weak season, when the SEC was especially weak.
There are maybe 2 or 3 players that will ever be 1st or 2nd team All-WNBA.
Last edited by ucbart on 04/19/20 5:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014
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| Posted: 04/19/20 11:44 am ::: |
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[quote="justintyme"][quote="bballjunkie"]Kiki May be getting a raw deal. She played on the number 1 team in the country under Dawn. That seems to have been forgotten with all the Oregon hype. She played in a tough league and also played against the top teams for 4 years and practiced against A’ja for 2. Tell me again who Alarie has played against in comparison? Having just watched some videos, which were hard to find btws as their schedule is weak, I am feeling that Kiki is getting shafted.[/quote]
I don't think it has anything to do with Alarie as to why she's getting a raw deal from those of us on the outside. I think Alarie demonstrates what teams were actually looking for verus what the mock drafters were penciling in for teams.
Alarie and Kiki both fit the mold of floor stretching players who can play/defend multiple positions. Teams are really starting to covet players like this, so as we get outside the "sure thing" picks that everyone pretty much agrees on and move into the fliers where you are looking at upside and development, these at the players that are going to have a lot of value. Since I wanted Alarie at #6 and give the Wings a ton of credit for vulturing her at #5, I think Kiki makes a ton of sense at 6. She would have been gone at 8 to the Sky according to post draft interviews if the Lynx hadn't taken her there.[/quote]
IMO this is flat out not true, that is why I went and searched out film to see if comparisons could be made. Kiki is guarding much better players with size, this is not true for Alarie who gets pinned by smaller players and had difficulty covering any others coming into the key. Considering her competition, I find her stats to not be representative of playing against smaller lesser talented players. There is no comparison to the type of competition either player has played against. Trying to then make a bigger jump to the W is in fact much greater for Alarie than it is for Kiki.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/19/20 12:18 pm ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| bballjunkie wrote: |
| Kiki May be getting a raw deal. She played on the number 1 team in the country under Dawn. That seems to have been forgotten with all the Oregon hype. She played in a tough league and also played against the top teams for 4 years and practiced against A’ja for 2. Tell me again who Alarie has played against in comparison? Having just watched some videos, which were hard to find btws as their schedule is weak, I am feeling that Kiki is getting shafted. |
One thing that I take into account is that there is no denying the quality of play in WCBB has took a sharp turn down this year. The 2018 & 2019 draft classes were loaded with talent and the teams were just not as good. If this was the 2018 or 2019 drafts, there is no way Alarie, Harris, and HH were top 6 picks. Like, none.
And as for HH, she had one good season, her senior year, in a weak season, when the SEC was especially weak.
There are maybe 2 or 3 players that will ever be 1st or 2nd team All-WNBA. |
This draft has a very 2010 feel to it. One sure fire superstar followed by a lot of meh.
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TigerVol
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 04/19/20 12:48 pm ::: |
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Kiki may surprise people who haven't followed her.
Doesn't play for my teams but has been one of my favorite player to watch the last 4 years.
She had something even early on. I liked the way she plays the game. She is gritty and persistent.
She has improved each year, is coachable and is a team player.
She may not set the league on fire but I'd bet she has more of a chance to help a team than to be a bust.
All that said - I don't follow the lynx well enough to know if they over drafted for their needs.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 04/19/20 12:50 pm ::: |
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| bballjunkie wrote: |
IMO this is flat out not true, that is why I went and searched out film to see if comparisons could be made. Kiki is guarding much better players with size, this is not true for Alarie who gets pinned by smaller players and had difficulty covering any others coming into the key. Considering her competition, I find her stats to not be representative of playing against smaller lesser talented players. There is no comparison to the type of competition either player has played against. Trying to then make a bigger jump to the W is in fact much greater for Alarie than it is for Kiki. |
I'm not entirely sure where you are going with this.
Yes, Alarie is raw. So is Kiki. Kiki needs to work on and improve significantly her rebounding and passing to be able to succeed at the next level. Alarie needs to add some strength and work on her ability to defend, especially in some matchups and against tougher competition.
But then point I was making is that after the first few picks every single one of the prospects that have any significant degree of upside should be labeled as "raw". So it came down to what sort of player were you hoping to mold. And the reason neither Alarie nor Kiki were drafted "too high" was because they represent what many teams are actually looking for right now in their developmental posts. So while the picks might have raised eyebrows in the peanut gallery, there was a lot of head nodding from the GMs when the dominoes started falling. Like I said, Reeve wanted Alarie at #6, and Wade wanted Kiki at #8. And it's very likely that had Agler not recognized Reeve wanted Alarie at #6, he might have taken Ty Harris there and drafted Kiki at #7.
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justintyme
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| Posted: 04/19/20 1:01 pm ::: |
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| TigerVol wrote: |
All that said - I don't follow the lynx well enough to know if they over drafted for their needs. |
The Lynx were one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the league last year--and that was with teams collapsing on Fowles and daring them to shoot.
They had a lot of wing players but were pretty thin in the post (though the also lacked a true PG).
Kiki's biggest weakness is rebounding right now. While that won't fly for long on a Reeve coached team, if there is one place where a player could hide a deficiency while they develop it's on the boards with Fowles, Collier, Shepard, et al on the team. She is also going to be coached by Rebekkah Brunson and Plenette Pierson. Pretty good matchup for someone nickednamed "Mad Kiki".
She also played for Sylvia Fowles' AAU team.
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SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
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| Posted: 04/19/20 1:15 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| This draft has a very 2010 feel to it. One sure fire superstar followed by a lot of meh. |
I was thinking this could be more like the 2018 Draft if it turns out. Obvious #1 pick, other players people high on, a somehwhat surprising pick(s) in the 1st round which turned out the right pick, a UConn player being a steal for where drafted at, etc.
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TigerVol
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 04/19/20 3:13 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| TigerVol wrote: |
All that said - I don't follow the lynx well enough to know if they over drafted for their needs. |
The Lynx were one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the league last year--and that was with teams collapsing on Fowles and daring them to shoot.
They had a lot of wing players but were pretty thin in the post (though the also lacked a true PG).
Kiki's biggest weakness is rebounding right now. While that won't fly for long on a Reeve coached team, if there is one place where a player could hide a deficiency while they develop it's on the boards with Fowles, Collier, Shepard, et al on the team. She is also going to be coached by Rebekkah Brunson and Plenette Pierson. Pretty good matchup for someone nickednamed "Mad Kiki".
She also played for Sylvia Fowles' AAU team. |
Sounds like a good situation for Kiki to continue to grow her game and fill a needed role for the lynx.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 04/19/20 4:22 pm ::: |
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| If she plays next to Collier they can probably share so it doesnt really matter, but is Herbert Harrigan mostly a 3 or a 4? Because her college numbers look low on rebounds for a 4, but also low on outside shot attempts for a wing. |
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 04/19/20 4:46 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| If she plays next to Collier they can probably share so it doesnt really matter, but is Herbert Harrigan mostly a 3 or a 4? Because her college numbers look low on rebounds for a 4, but also low on outside shot attempts for a wing. |
I think she has to play 3 in the W. She doesn't have the meat to really play in the post. My impression is of a player that is pretty active...but doesn't get much done with all that activity. I truly can't imagine that she will play much next to Collier, but may play in garbage time with the other scrubs.
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mavcarter
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| Posted: 04/19/20 4:49 pm ::: |
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NVM._________________
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| Or maybe said poster should quit being a nuisance when people don’t agree? |
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 04/19/20 5:49 pm ::: |
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| BTW: Richyyy she's a Brit so who knows, maybe she gets good enough to play for your national team.
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justintyme
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| Posted: 04/19/20 6:13 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| If she plays next to Collier they can probably share so it doesnt really matter, but is Herbert Harrigan mostly a 3 or a 4? Because her college numbers look low on rebounds for a 4, but also low on outside shot attempts for a wing. |
She was drafted as a 4 and that is where Reeve projects to play her for the most part. She does like the flexibility though of being able to move her around for matchup situations.
Reeve discussed her need to improve her rebounding but has every expectation that she will develop that aspect of her game especially under the tutelage of Pierson and Brunson.
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tfan
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| Posted: 04/19/20 6:49 pm ::: |
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| I saw Laksa in a few games and I didn’t see WNBA first round size or quickness.
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myrtle
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| Posted: 04/19/20 7:14 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
| If she plays next to Collier they can probably share so it doesnt really matter, but is Herbert Harrigan mostly a 3 or a 4? Because her college numbers look low on rebounds for a 4, but also low on outside shot attempts for a wing. |
She was drafted as a 4 and that is where Reeve projects to play her for the most part. She does like the flexibility though of being able to move her around for matchup situations.
Reeve discussed her need to improve her rebounding but has every expectation that she will develop that aspect of her game especially under the tutelage of Pierson and Brunson. |
I just brought up their conference final v MissState to see what there might be that others were seeing that I didn't. Just watched the first half and thought she was the 4th best player on her team. She did have one nice block and a technical foul. She made a couple of layups but missed her only shots outside the paint. And I thought she missed her defensive assignment several times as well. But whatever. Best of luck to the Lynx as they try to make something out of it. It's not as bad as Dallas' pick of Akhator anyway. It's true Pierson and Brunson can help her with her bad girl image. However, I think there is a reason there aren't many PFs in the league anymore with that lack of size and scoring, plus she doesn't look like she has a knack for rebounding. Some of that can be taught, but I think some of it is just there or it's not there.
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justintyme
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| Posted: 04/19/20 7:27 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
| If she plays next to Collier they can probably share so it doesnt really matter, but is Herbert Harrigan mostly a 3 or a 4? Because her college numbers look low on rebounds for a 4, but also low on outside shot attempts for a wing. |
She was drafted as a 4 and that is where Reeve projects to play her for the most part. She does like the flexibility though of being able to move her around for matchup situations.
Reeve discussed her need to improve her rebounding but has every expectation that she will develop that aspect of her game especially under the tutelage of Pierson and Brunson. |
I just brought up their conference final v MissState to see what there might be that others were seeing that I didn't. Just watched the first half and thought she was the 4th best player on her team. |
She was the MVP of that tournament...
As far as rebounding, in an overly simplistic way, I see it in 3 basic parts:
1) Intensity/drive/willingness to go for the ball
2) Ability to see angles and predict where the ball will end up
3) technique/positioning/footwork, etc.
I think #3 is infinitely coachable as long as a player is willing to learn. #2 is moderately coachable as it can be improved through experience and practice and some pointers on things to key on. But, with that said, the best rebounders do seem to have an innate sense where they just know where the ball is going to be--and that sense isn't something that can be taught. #1 is something that has to come from the player and is not coachable at all.
So, yeah, I do agree that it's possible she might never become an elite rebounder. But to her credit she does seem to have plenty of #1, so IMO it will all come down to what she can learn and if she is able to make up for not having that innate element at #2.
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myrtle
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| Posted: 04/19/20 9:29 pm ::: |
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| Well, maybe I just watched the wrong half of the wrong game. Or maybe she was MVP because she was a sr. on the best team. Anyway, good luck. She is definitely feisty at least and I can foresee PPP and Brunson having fun with her.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 04/19/20 11:30 pm ::: |
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To be honest, most of this discussion is making me think "they knew they could probably re-sign Asia Taylor for the minimum, right?" But we'll see.
As for the British links, I couldn't find much searching around except that she was born in Anguilla, which is one of the few remaining British Overseas Territories. But if she's got the passport, I'm sure GB Basketball would welcome her to join the group. We're not in the position to be turning down WNBA draftees, never mind top-6 picks. |
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blaase22
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
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| Posted: 04/20/20 9:16 am ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| TigerVol wrote: |
All that said - I don't follow the lynx well enough to know if they over drafted for their needs. |
The Lynx were one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the league last year--and that was with teams collapsing on Fowles and daring them to shoot.
They had a lot of wing players but were pretty thin in the post (though the also lacked a true PG).
Kiki's biggest weakness is rebounding right now. While that won't fly for long on a Reeve coached team, if there is one place where a player could hide a deficiency while they develop it's on the boards with Fowles, Collier, Shepard, et al on the team. She is also going to be coached by Rebekkah Brunson and Plenette Pierson. Pretty good matchup for someone nickednamed "Mad Kiki".
She also played for Sylvia Fowles' AAU team. |
Which is why passing on Megan walker was dumb. She can shoot threes.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 04/20/20 10:25 am ::: |
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| blaase22 wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| TigerVol wrote: |
All that said - I don't follow the lynx well enough to know if they over drafted for their needs. |
The Lynx were one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the league last year--and that was with teams collapsing on Fowles and daring them to shoot.
They had a lot of wing players but were pretty thin in the post (though the also lacked a true PG).
Kiki's biggest weakness is rebounding right now. While that won't fly for long on a Reeve coached team, if there is one place where a player could hide a deficiency while they develop it's on the boards with Fowles, Collier, Shepard, et al on the team. She is also going to be coached by Rebekkah Brunson and Plenette Pierson. Pretty good matchup for someone nickednamed "Mad Kiki".
She also played for Sylvia Fowles' AAU team. |
Which is why passing on Megan walker was dumb. She can shoot threes. |
I think Walker is better in all aspects other than paint defense and feistiness/bad girl syndrome. So maybe Cheryl is hoping for interior shot blocking prowess. [shrug]
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