| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 1365
Back to top |
 Posted: 03/05/21 4:30 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
| Stormeo wrote: |
| That... only seems to support the notion that the WNBA isn't (or at the very least, shouldn't be) in the business of helping prospective players find overseas work in adversarial Leagues. |
The leagues do not play concurrantly, so they are more complimentary than adversarial. And their success is more or less contingent on eachother. If there is no Euro play, the WNBA players don't get to play year around, which is absolutely vital to their continued development especially in the first 5-6 years of their careers. When injury, or "injury" comes into play is the only time there's ever really been an issue between the WNBA and Euro Ball.
_________________
Unspoken expectations are just premeditated resentments.
|
|
Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/05/21 6:17 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| There seem to be a 3rd round player or players just about every year that make rosters, either with the team that drafted them or another. Wings drafted Angel Goodrich and Soniya Chong in round 3 and both lasted a while. In 2020 Stella Johnson for example. Sometimes a 3rd round pick is the only rookie a team drafts (e.g. Alexis Prince) which often helps them to make the team. By the 3rd round it seems it would be more a question of need than "best available." The teams probably have a better idea of what they need than players might (assuming they even follow the WNBA.) Sometimes 3rd round players even beat out or at least outlast first round picks (e.g. Epps and Chong in 2017.) Five players from the 2014 3rd round made teams eventually, if not immediatly. It is hard to come up with evidence that players are being disadvantaged or talent being wasted by having a 3rd round.
|
|
Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24355
Location: London
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/05/21 6:25 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Yeah, I don't see any real harm in the third round continuing to exist. I don't think it would hurt much if it was eliminated either (except teams would have to be more creative when they wanted to trade virtually nothing), but I don't think it's really hurting anything.
That said, I went back through about 15 years of drafts recently, and found a maximum of two third-rounders who made it all the way through their rookie-scale contracts while playing in all four seasons. Which arguably adds to the side that says there isn't much point to it. |
|
Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/05/21 7:05 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| That... only seems to support the notion that the WNBA isn't (or at the very least, shouldn't be) in the business of helping prospective players find overseas work in adversarial Leagues. |
The leagues do not play concurrently, so they are more complementary than adversarial. And their success is more or less contingent on each other. If there is no Euro play, the WNBA players don't get to play year around, which is absolutely vital to their continued development especially in the first 5-6 years of their careers. When injury, or "injury" comes into play is the only time there's ever really been an issue between the WNBA and Euro Ball. |
NBA players don't need to play overseas in order to develop/hone their game. Some WNBA players who choose not to play overseas don't need to either – Skylar Diggins-Smith who was a one-time MIP award winner comes to mind.
If there was no Euro/overseas play, the WNBA could be a 8-9 month League like the NBA instead of the barely 6 months that it is now – again, like the NBA. Why is the W not like that anyway? Because some players would choose whichever League gives them more money if it's a stark difference between the W & the overseas League in question. The fact of the matter is, there is no partnership between the WNBA and any other women's b-ball League around the world. Besides, WNBA players can & do get hurt playing overseas and have to miss entire seasons because of it (Alyssa Thomas is the latest example of that) – why would the WNBA support or want to support other Leagues that risk hurting the quality of its own product?
But anyways, all of this is neither here nor there as it relates to the original argument about the 3rd round. If the annual average amount of 3rd-rounders that make their team's final roster isn't even above one quarter of them, then I see no point in having it. Any other reason for continuing to have a 3rd round that isn't related to the players making the team they're drafted to is downright nonsensical, as far as I'm concerned.
|
|
J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6800
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/05/21 10:41 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Ok just for fun
this is hard
1. Dallas Collier
2. Dallas Davis
3. Atl Guirantes
4. Indy Onyenwere
5. Dallas Mack
6. NY Kuier
7. Dallas Rupert
8. Chi Evans
9. Minn Dungee
10. LA McDonald
11. Sea Westbrook
12. LV Walker
13. Dallas Slocum
14. LV Richards
15. Atl K. Williams
16. Chi Gondrezick
17. NY N. Jones
18. Sea Heal
19. Indy Thompson
20. Conn Mangakahia
21. Conn Boley
22. LA Carrington
23. Sea Pullium
24. Indy Patberg
Round 3
Perry, Pointer, Goodman, Hollingshead, Bailey, Staiti, V. Gray, Lott, Aifuwa, International deferral picks
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63778
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/05/21 11:21 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Not sure why NBA is being brought up. They usually take cues from the WNBA.
Two rounds in the NBA is 60 players. Three rounds in the WNBA is only 36 players. There’s much better things to worry about.
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63778
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/05/21 11:37 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Here’s some interesting stat lines from today’s conference tournaments.
Davis 33 pts (10-19, 2-3 3P, 11-13 FT), 14 reb (4 off), 1 ast, 6 TO in 38 min
Pointer 26 pts (6-21, 4-7 3P, 10-12 FT), 6 reb, 4 ast, 5 TO, 4 stl in 38 min
Staiti 20 pts (5-12, 0-2 3P, 10-11 FT), 12 reb (5 off), 0 ast, 2 TO, 1 stl, 3 blk in 28 min
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/05/21 11:40 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Shades wrote: |
| Not sure why NBA is being brought up. |
If you actually chose to read, you'd know.
| Shades wrote: |
| They usually take cues from the WNBA. |
Examples? Source?
| Shades wrote: |
| Two rounds in the NBA is 60 players. Three rounds in the WNBA is only 36 players. |
You forgot to specify that there are 30 men's teams vs. 12 women's teams. It's all about the averages here...
| Shades wrote: |
| There’s much better things to worry about. |
Lot of things to "worry about" in general so I'm just adding to the pile.
|
|
awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 4231
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/06/21 4:30 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Our very long list of potential international picks:
http://www.womensbasketball247.com/2021/03/international-names-to-know-for-2021-draft/
Speaking of the NBA, they are going with seniors needing to declare to be eligible for the draft this year and presumably will carry over for future seasons until all of the players who got this season free finish filtering through.
I had Mo check around about foreign college players who did not arrive on campus this season. It sounds like the exact policy would have to be worked out for that handful of players. My reading of the responses were that if Izzy Anstey wanted to be eligible for this draft, everyone involved would probably be fine with it. That probably means that Gemma Potter will be available next year, although it should probably be checked again later. |
|
Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 5377
Location: Chocolate Paradise
Back to top |
|
Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/07/21 2:47 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| ICYMI, UT Martin's Chelsey Perry returned to action the past two matchups in the OVC tournament – both off the bench, both in seemingly limited minutes. Against Tennessee Tech in the semifinal, she had 10 pts on 4-8 FG with 2 rebs & 1 blk in 15 minutes. Against Belmont in the final, she had 16 pts on 6-16 FG with 7 rebs, & 5 ast to 2 to's in 23 minutes. Because Belmont won, UT Martin lost out on the autobid and will most likely end up in the NITs, since the Skyhawks' NET Ranking is only in the 60s and they have very few signature wins on the season with regards to their Tournament résumé.
|
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/07/21 11:51 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Stormeo wrote: |
| ICYMI, UT Martin's Chelsey Perry returned to action the past two matchups in the OVC tournament – both off the bench, both in seemingly limited minutes. Against Tennessee Tech in the semifinal, she had 10 pts on 4-8 FG with 2 rebs & 1 blk in 15 minutes. Against Belmont in the final, she had 16 pts on 6-16 FG with 7 rebs, & 5 ast to 2 to's in 23 minutes. Because Belmont won, UT Martin lost out on the autobid and will most likely end up in the NITs, since the Skyhawks' NET Ranking is only in the 60s and they have very few signature wins on the season with regards to their Tournament résumé. |
yeah, she's clearly had an injury of some type but I haven't found out what it is. Really feel sad for her. Hopefully she's well enough to really play in their WNIT outing.
_________________
For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63778
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/07/21 7:12 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
BOOYAH!
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ENJ1C8viKa0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63778
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/07/21 8:20 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Kinda corny to add the music to this.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.espn.com/core/video/iframe?id=31023043&endcard=false" allowfullscreen frameborder="0"></iframe>
Collier played today at TCU
18 pts (8-13, 1-1, 1-2 FT), 13 reb (4 off), 0 ast, 5 TO in 35 min
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/07/21 11:32 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| awhom111 wrote: |
Our very long list of potential international picks:
http://www.womensbasketball247.com/2021/03/international-names-to-know-for-2021-draft/
Speaking of the NBA, they are going with seniors needing to declare to be eligible for the draft this year and presumably will carry over for future seasons until all of the players who got this season free finish filtering through.
I had Mo check around about foreign college players who did not arrive on campus this season. It sounds like the exact policy would have to be worked out for that handful of players. My reading of the responses were that if Izzy Anstey wanted to be eligible for this draft, everyone involved would probably be fine with it. That probably means that Gemma Potter will be available next year, although it should probably be checked again later. |
Thank you for always sharing your reporting & analysis about the comings & goings of international wbb here!! I know that so many of us here appreciate it. Whether it's a strong or weak international Draft class, it's always fascinating reading about the prospects and considering them as they relate/could relate to American basketball.
With this class, I'm guessing there will be a minimum of 4 players taken (Kuier, Heal, Rupert, and at least one more). Could be as many as double that amount. Maybe even more than that. Considering the unique dynamics of this year's collegiate prospects as it relates to them all being given the option to return for another year, the entire Draft picture has never been more interesting (and volatile). It couldn't have been a better year to have a deep international class where WNBA teams know that everyone in it will for sure be Draft-eligible.
|
|
Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
Back to top |
|
Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24355
Location: London
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/08/21 12:59 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I've only seen any of these players a couple of times, so my view is always going to be coloured by whether I randomly caught good or bad games. But am I completely nuts to like Kiana Williams more than Evans, and maybe more than McDonald as well? I've not been impressed by Evans's actually point guard skills (passing, vision, decision making etc.), and 5-6 looks like it might be generous for her as well. So to me she may max out at a Latta-type. Even though her assist totals are lower, Williams looks more capable of running a team to me, and when I've seen her has also been more reliable from deep (another thing the overall numbers don't particularly support).
McDonald or Evans might have the higher ceiling if absolutely everything goes right for them as pros, but from what I've seen I wouldn't be surprised if Williams had the longer career. |
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/08/21 2:23 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I'm admittedly biased but I also think K.Williams can have a decent pro career. She sometimes shoots more than she should but when the game is on the line, she is the one to have the ball in her hands. She tends to make very good decisions. Stanford plays an offense that spreads the assists around because it depends on a lot of passing and cutting, so I'm not concerned about her relatively low assist numbers. She makes really beautiful passes, she has decent size and obviously has great range. She's not super speedy but definitely not slow footed either. She's a good defender but isn't generally recognized as such because she plays with Anna Wilson, who is one of the best defenders in the country, so all the defensive accolades go (rightfully) to Anna.
I have assumed she would come out this year but there is now a bit of behind-the-scenes gossip that she may choose to stay another year in school. I have no real inside story on that so it is just gossip. For my team's sake I would be ecstatic to have her come back another year.
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63778
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/08/21 7:09 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
2021 Katrina McClain Award (PF) Finalists
Jasmine Walker, Alabama
NaLyssa Smith, Baylor (JR)
Naz Hillmon, Michigan (JR)
Natasha Mack, Oklahoma State
Maddy Siegrist, Villanova (SO)
Senior
Draft eligible junior
Dropped candidates
Unique Thompson, Auburn
Jessika Carter, Mississippi State
Francesca Belibi, Stanford (SO)
N'dea Jones, Texas A&M
Chelsey Perry, UT Martin
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11148
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/08/21 7:34 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
The more I see Onyenwere, the more I like her. She's a winner, she plays physical, she plays hard, and she has skills. She can jump and she's very strong.
Now what her position is exactly I don't know. I'm thinking she can handle most fours even if she gives away a little size, and it's possible, if you squint and add in some development, that she could hang with a three for a while.
In a way, she reminds me of McCoughtry -- not as good, of course -- but kind of that all-around player who can a little of everything, and do it all pretty well.
_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
Last edited by ClayK on 03/09/21 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63778
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/08/21 7:56 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
2021 Lisa Leslie Award (C)Finalists
Olivia Nelson-Ododa, UConn (JR)
Elissa Cunane, NC State (JR)
Aliyah Boston, South Carolina (SO)
Charli Collier, Texas
+Elizabeth Kitley, Virginia Tech (SO)
Senior/Grad
Draft eligible junior
+Added candidate
Dropped candidates
Queen Egbo, Baylor (JR)
Ayoka Lee, Kansas State (SO) eligible for early entry in 2022
Janelle Bailey, North Carolina
Shakira Austin, Ole Miss (JR)
Nancy Mulkey, Rice
Kamilla Cardoso, Syracuse (FR) eligible for early entry in 2023
No senior finalists on the Lisa Leslie list.
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Last edited by Shades on 03/08/21 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24355
Location: London
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/08/21 8:27 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ClayK wrote: |
The more I see Onyenwere, the more I like her. She's a winner, she plays physical, she plays hard, and she has skills. She can jump and she's very strong.
Now what her position is exactly I don't know. I'm thinking she can handle most fours even if she gives away a little sense, and it's possible, if you squint and add in some development, that she could hang with a three for a while.
In a way, she reminds me of McCoughtry -- not as good, of course -- but kind of that all-around player who can a little of everything, and do it all pretty well. |
I saw her yesterday and was pretty impressed too. Seems like even if things don't go great for future development you should still get something Kayla Thornton-y, with a hypothetical ceiling much higher than that. If that three-point shot turns out to be consistent at the pro level she could be something really good eventually.
I could absolutely see her going in the first four or five picks. And am already dreading hearing commentators try to wrap their mouths around the phrase "Ogunbowale to Onyenwere". |
|
J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6800
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/08/21 8:40 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Richyyy wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
The more I see Onyenwere, the more I like her. She's a winner, she plays physical, she plays hard, and she has skills. She can jump and she's very strong.
Now what her position is exactly I don't know. I'm thinking she can handle most fours even if she gives away a little sense, and it's possible, if you squint and add in some development, that she could hang with a three for a while.
In a way, she reminds me of McCoughtry -- not as good, of course -- but kind of that all-around player who can a little of everything, and do it all pretty well. |
I saw her yesterday and was pretty impressed too. Seems like even if things don't go great for future development you should still get something Kayla Thornton-y, with a hypothetical ceiling much higher than that. If that three-point shot turns out to be consistent at the pro level she could be something really good eventually.
I could absolutely see her going in the first four or five picks. And am already dreading hearing commentators try to wrap their mouths around the phrase "Ogunbowale to Onyenwere". |
I could see her go to Atl at 3 or Indy at 4
Both teams could use a SF with size
I do still think her tweeter size could have her fall a little in the sense that a team looking for a SF might prefer Davis to Onyenewere, and if another team in the same boat thinks Guirantes is big enough to play SF I could see Onyenwere as the one who falls of the 3/
With that said If she is still on the board when Indy picks I think it would be a mistake on their part if they pass on her. Onyenwere IMO seems like a nice compliment both to their young posts and young guards.
Maybe not exactly the same but she could sort of be Indy's A. Clark basically filling a hole at the SF spot and bringing balance and a winning skill set to help the team put it all together.
|
|
singinerd54
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 1817
Location: Missouri
Back to top |
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63778
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/08/21 9:13 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| J-Spoon wrote: |
I could see her go to Atl at 3 or Indy at 4
Both teams could use a SF with size |
How come Marianne Stanley wasn’t at the Pac-12 Tournament? Both her and Reeve were at the ACC Tournament. I was hoping Reeve would be at the SEC Tournament.
| J-Spoon wrote: |
| if another team in the same boat thinks Guirantes is big enough to play SF |
I struggle to see her as a SF at the next level. She’s a combo guard, maybe even a PG.
| J-Spoon wrote: |
| With that said If she is still on the board when Indy picks I think it would be a mistake on their part if they pass on her. |
Do you really think it would be a mistake, or are you hoping they take her to increase the likelihood of something better showing up at #6? Would you like Onyenwere for NYL at #6?
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
|
|
Thus, just like early entrants in any other year, the same kinds of deadlines of when to declare for Final Four participants and everyone else apply here.
April Anxiety
