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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 05/27/20 4:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Pilight could tell us which third rounders in the 'modern' age have made an impact. The first that comes to my mind is Kraayeveld, because I was a fan of hers when she was with the Liberty. I think she even started for a couple of seasons. So it can happen.


It's been a while, but Jia Perkins was an All-Star.


pilight



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PostPosted: 05/27/20 5:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Pilight could tell us which third rounders in the 'modern' age have made an impact. The first that comes to my mind is Kraayeveld, because I was a fan of hers when she was with the Liberty. I think she even started for a couple of seasons. So it can happen.


It's been a while, but Jia Perkins was an All-Star.


So was Charde Houston



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 05/28/20 10:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm too lazy to do the exact math, but 21 years times 12 third-round picks per year (plus a few more for when there were more teams) is around 270 or so third-rounders.

Let's be generous and say 9 had an "impact" in the league, or 1 out of 30. That's one every 2.5 years.

Let's say six were starters for a significant amount of time. That's one out of 45, or one every four years.

Again, the third-round generates publicity for the league in places it doesn't generally get any, which is a positive, but really, in terms of talent, it's not a big deal whether it continues or not. Presumably a player like Jia Perkins would have found a home in the W had she been drafted or signed as a free agent.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 05/28/20 11:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Pilight could tell us which third rounders in the 'modern' age have made an impact. The first that comes to my mind is Kraayeveld, because I was a fan of hers when she was with the Liberty. I think she even started for a couple of seasons. So it can happen.


It's been a while, but Jia Perkins was an All-Star.


So was Charde Houston


Houston was a 2004 USA Basketball U18 member. She dropped because Auriemma doghoused her for 4 years. Perkins got pregnant her senior year in college which I think caused her to drop.




Last edited by tfan on 05/28/20 11:34 am; edited 2 times in total
Richyyy



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PostPosted: 05/28/20 11:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I'm too lazy to do the exact math, but 21 years times 12 third-round picks per year (plus a few more for when there were more teams) is around 270 or so third-rounders.

Let's be generous and say 9 had an "impact" in the league, or 1 out of 30. That's one every 2.5 years.

Let's say six were starters for a significant amount of time. That's one out of 45, or one every four years.

Again, the third-round generates publicity for the league in places it doesn't generally get any, which is a positive, but really, in terms of talent, it's not a big deal whether it continues or not. Presumably a player like Jia Perkins would have found a home in the W had she been drafted or signed as a free agent.

But, without wishing to be dismissive, so what? If there were only 12 teams in the NBA, players 25-36 in the draft wouldn't make much of an impact each year either (players 25-36 often don't anyway in a 30-team league). And that's when they're drafting many of those players earlier in their maturation process, and therefore adding increased randomness. So yeah, most WNBA third-rounders won't make it at WNBA level, just like most of those NBA guys will spend most of their basketball careers in Bakersfield or Belgium. Big deal.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 05/28/20 11:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Seems people are forgetting the most important reason for having a 3rd round - trade chips. Allows teams to make deals like trading the player you got for Diamond Deshields for a 3rd round pick. It would much more limiting if trade chips ended with round 2. Razz



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 05/28/20 5:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I'm too lazy to do the exact math, but 21 years times 12 third-round picks per year (plus a few more for when there were more teams) is around 270 or so third-rounders.

Let's be generous and say 9 had an "impact" in the league, or 1 out of 30. That's one every 2.5 years.

Let's say six were starters for a significant amount of time. That's one out of 45, or one every four years.

Again, the third-round generates publicity for the league in places it doesn't generally get any, which is a positive, but really, in terms of talent, it's not a big deal whether it continues or not. Presumably a player like Jia Perkins would have found a home in the W had she been drafted or signed as a free agent.

But, without wishing to be dismissive, so what? If there were only 12 teams in the NBA, players 25-36 in the draft wouldn't make much of an impact each year either (players 25-36 often don't anyway in a 30-team league). And that's when they're drafting many of those players earlier in their maturation process, and therefore adding increased randomness. So yeah, most WNBA third-rounders won't make it at WNBA level, just like most of those NBA guys will spend most of their basketball careers in Bakersfield or Belgium. Big deal.


I agree. The third round is pretty irrelevant in almost every way.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 05/28/20 6:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Doing the research, here's the list of the few third rounders to have made a roster at some point in the past six drafts.

2019:
#25:Paris Kea(Indiana)
#30: Kenisha Bell(Minnesota)
#32: Arica Carter(Phoenix)

2018:
#25: Raigyne Louis(Las Vegas)
#26: Imani Wright(Phoenix)
#29: Teana Muldrow(Seattle)

2017:
#26: Saniya Chong(Dallas)
#29: Alexis Prince(Phoenix)
#30: Lanay Montgomery(Seattle)
#33: Makayla Epps(Chicago)

2016:
#32: Nirra Fields(Phoenix)
#33: Julie Allemand(Indiana)
#35: Temi Fagbenle(Minnesota)

2015:
#31: Andrea Hoover(Los Angeles)
#35: Shae Kelley(Minnesota)

2014:
#26: Meighan Simmons(New York)
#27: Theresa Plaisance(Tulsa)
#33: Stephanie Talbot(Phoenix)
#34: Jamierra Faulkner(Chicago)
#36: Asia Taylor(Minnesota)



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 05/29/20 1:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Third-round picks being beneficial to help players sign with other leagues unrelated to the W that one could argue are adversarial to the W? Third-round picks being the most useful as trade chips? Not gonna lie, those reasons seem completely backwards as they relate to why the third-round should exist (or at the very least, puzzlingly counterintuitive). The short-lived 'almost-feel-good' stories it brings might be the most valid reason it has going for it. Laughing And speaking of the NBA, has anyone mentioned the crucial detail of how its drafts have two rounds (full stop) and each team certainly has more roster spots on it than 12?

toad455 wrote:
Doing the research, here's the list of the few third rounders to have made a roster at some point in the past six drafts.


From that list, Plaisance is the only active player on a roster. A fun fact about her: she's never shot above 40% from the field in any of her six seasons in the League. A fun opinion about her: she's only still in the League because Dallas foolishly signed her to a three-year six-figure guaranteed contract before the 2018 season. I don't see her in the League in 2021 unless she improbably turns in a 'career' year in Connecticut. Still, 2014's third-round had some nearly-interesting folks in it, didn't it.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 05/29/20 8:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
From that list, Plaisance is the only active player on a roster.


One other former third rounder survived the roster cut down



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Shades



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PostPosted: 05/29/20 9:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Going beyond 2014 has some interesting names

2013
29. Tulsa Shock Angel Goodrich, G, Kansas (83 games)
34. Los Angeles Sparks Alina Iagupova, G/F, Ukraine
(One of the better international players at the moment.)

2012
25. Tulsa Shock Vicki Baugh, F/C, Tennessee (78 games)
27. Chicago Sky Sydney Carter, G, Texas A&M (65 games)
29. Tulsa Shock Lynetta Kizer, C, Maryland (180 games)
31. Minnesota Lynx Jacki Gemelos, G, Southern California (17 games. 2020 camp cut)
35. Washington Mystics Briana Gilbreath, G, Southern California (54 games)

2011
29. Los Angeles Sparks Elina Babkina, G, Latvia (2020 camp cut)
36. Seattle Storm Krystal Thomas, C, Duke (176 games)

2010
26. Minnesota Lynx Gabriela Marginean, F, Drexel (4 games)
28. Chicago Sky Abi Olajuwon, C, Oklahoma (22 games)
30. Washington Mystics Alexis Gray-Lawson, G, California (46 games)

2009
32. Phoenix Mercury Jessica Adair, C, George Washington (51 games. Valued bench player during 2011 championship season)
34. Connecticut Sun Alba Torrens, F/C, Real Club Celta Indepo (Still trying to get her to come in.)

2008
25. Minnesota Lynx Charde Houston, F, Connecticut (206 games. WNBA champion)
26. Houston Comets Crystal Kelly, F, Western Kentucky (93 games)
30. Washington Mystics Krystal Vaughn, F, Virginia Commonwealth (15 games)
33. Connecticut Sun Lauren Ervin, F, Arkansas (8 games)
34. Sacramento Monarchs A’Quonesia Franklin, G, Texas A&M (36 games)



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Last edited by Shades on 05/29/20 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total
toad455



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PostPosted: 05/29/20 10:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
From that list, Plaisance is the only active player on a roster.


One other former third rounder survived the roster cut down


Kudos to the Fever for getting Allemand to come over.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 05/29/20 10:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Kudos to the Fever for getting Allemand to come over.

Hiring a new coach who actually wanted her to come may have been the key element there, rather than talking her into anything.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 05/29/20 9:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
From that list, Plaisance is the only active player on a roster.


One other former third rounder survived the roster cut down


Whoops, I must've grouped Allemand in my mind with other international players whose contracts have been suspended. Embarassed Although, she appears to have been a deferral pick. Taking out those deferral-pick players paints an even bleaker picture of third-round-pick success for all those non-deferral ready-to-play players.



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RI_Sun_Fan



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PostPosted: 06/11/20 10:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

34. Connecticut Sun Alba Torrens, F/C, Real Club Celta Indepo (Still trying to get her to come in.)

Do the Sun still have her rights and if so does it expire ? Not that I expect her to ever play for Connecticut but maybe if she wanted to play elsewhere a deal could be made in the future.


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 06/11/20 11:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Going beyond 2014 has some interesting names

2012
29. Tulsa Shock Lynetta Kizer, C, Maryland (180 games)

2011
36. Seattle Storm Krystal Thomas, C, Duke (176 games)

2008
25. Minnesota Lynx Charde Houston, F, Connecticut (206 games. WNBA champion)


All three of these players were ranked in the top ten of their respective recruiting classes and were high school All-Americans, but, for whatever reasons, did not necessarily live up to their projected status in college based on their respective rankings.

But the raw talent and potential were there, as evidenced by their respective high school ratings and accolades.

    Charde Houston (UConn) was ranked as a top five recruit by All Star Girls Report top ten recruit by Blue Star. She was a McDonald's All-American and a Parade All-American in high school. Houston was also selected to play in the WBCA High School All-American game (though she was not able to play in the game, due to prior commitments).

    Lynetta Kizer was ranked in the top five by ESPN/Hoopgurlz, the top ten by Blue Star, and #17 by All Star Girls Report. She was a McDonald's All-American and a Parade All-American in high school. Kizer was also selected to play in the WBCA High School All-American game.

    Krystal Thomas (Duke) was ranked in the top ten by Blue Star, ESPN/Hoopgurlz, and All Star Girls Report. She was a McDonald's All-American and Parade All-American in high school. Thomas was also selected to play in the WBCA High School All-American game.


PickledGinger



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PostPosted: 06/17/20 9:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just pointing out that Erica Wheeler didn't even get drafted and was an All-Star and a starter since her Sophomore season. I'd say that's way more impressive than anything any of these 3rd rounders did.


Randy



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PostPosted: 06/18/20 8:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:
Just pointing out that Erica Wheeler didn't even get drafted and was an All-Star and a starter since her Sophomore season. I'd say that's way more impressive than anything any of these 3rd rounders did.


Not only that - she was cut by 2 teams. She's a great success story for the WNBA. She shows the power of persistence.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 06/28/20 2:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It took a few veterans opting-out, but every 1st and 2nd Round pick except for the 3 intentional deferrals (Laksa, Geiselsoder, Fiebich) are now on WNBA rosters. Smile



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/28/20 2:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
It took a few veterans opting-out, but every 1st and 2nd Round pick except for the 3 intentional deferrals (Laksa, Geiselsoder, Fiebich) are now on WNBA rosters. Smile


Which in terms of available rookies, the best ones to pick-up now are Erica Ogwumike, Haley Gorecki & Stella Johnson.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 06/28/20 3:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
root_thing wrote:
It took a few veterans opting-out, but every 1st and 2nd Round pick except for the 3 intentional deferrals (Laksa, Geiselsoder, Fiebich) are now on WNBA rosters. Smile


Which in terms of available rookies, the best ones to pick-up now are Erica Ogwumike, Haley Gorecki & Stella Johnson.


So, what you are saying is that teams shouldn't pick up any more rookies?


toad455



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PostPosted: 06/28/20 3:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
toad455 wrote:
root_thing wrote:
It took a few veterans opting-out, but every 1st and 2nd Round pick except for the 3 intentional deferrals (Laksa, Geiselsoder, Fiebich) are now on WNBA rosters. Smile


Which in terms of available rookies, the best ones to pick-up now are Erica Ogwumike, Haley Gorecki & Stella Johnson.


So, what you are saying is that teams shouldn't pick up any more rookies?


Only Washington has the space to bring in someone as of now. Who knows who else opts-out going forward. But the Mystics need a PG and I'm thinking they bring in someone like Boyd or Tiffany Bias. Aces do have the room also to sign someone and I think Laimbeer goes for a post like Coates.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 06/29/20 4:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
root_thing wrote:
It took a few veterans opting-out, but every 1st and 2nd Round pick except for the 3 intentional deferrals (Laksa, Geiselsoder, Fiebich) are now on WNBA rosters. Smile


Which in terms of available rookies, the best ones to pick-up now are Erica Ogwumike, Haley Gorecki & Stella Johnson.


While I absolutely disagree about Ogwumike being part of the 'best of the rest' draftees, Stella Johnson has just been signed by Chicago - the first 3rd rounder of the Draft to 'make' a roster.



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PostPosted: 06/29/20 5:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Based on Duke's recent history of turning out over-achieving WNBA players, I have to say I do see Gorecki having a career in this league. The only ones who haven't really panned out have been Tricia Liston and Rebecca Greenwell. Gorecki is way more athletic than Liston, stronger than Greenwell, and more versatile, a better rebounder, passer and defender, and as good of a shooter as both. And she finished more tough shots off the dribble than just about anyone else I saw in the NCAA last year. I mean, some of that layups she made this season were insane.

All the spots are full at this point, unless Phoenix decides to pick up a 12th player. It might take her a year of playing overseas (if that's even a thing this winter) to prove herself, but to be honest, especially with people as high on Odom as they seem to be, I'm kind of surprised she hasn't gotten a look. There aren't many legit 6-foot point guards out there. If there were 2 more teams in the league she would definitely be on a roster right now.


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PostPosted: 06/29/20 6:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:
Based on Duke's recent history of turning out over-achieving WNBA players, I have to say I do see Gorecki having a career in this league... All the spots are full at this point, unless Phoenix decides to pick up a 12th player. It might take her a year of playing overseas (if that's even a thing this winter) to prove herself, but to be honest, especially with people as high on Odom as they seem to be, I'm kind of surprised she hasn't gotten a look. There aren't many legit 6-foot point guards out there. If there were 2 more teams in the league she would definitely be on a roster right now.


I would definitely support the Storm picking her up again if any of our guards opt out. Duke players definitely have a knack for carving out a place (or at least a legit chance) in this League.



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