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toad455



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PostPosted: 04/25/20 5:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
In recent times, KML was clearly picked way too early.
It's yet to be seen about MoJeff, but she could also be one of those 'way to early' picks.
I really like Gabby but her tweener status with no shot certainly raises warning flags about her career. She could develop...


Mosqueda-Lewis was so overhyped in college. She would've been the #1 pick if Loyd & Zahui B didn't enter early. When looking at that draft now, it was a weak draft. Cloud went #15 while four first round picks are out of the league(unless Boyd gets picked up).



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 04/25/20 6:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Speaking of slippage, Tennessee has now gone two drafts in a row with no picks. That may have happened to them only once before.
toad455



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PostPosted: 04/25/20 6:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Speaking of slippage, Tennessee has now gone two drafts in a row with no picks. That may have happened to them only once before.


no one was on anyone's radar. So sad. Rennia Davis will change that in 2021.



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RavenDog



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PostPosted: 04/25/20 7:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
In recent times, KML was clearly picked way too early.
It's yet to be seen about MoJeff, but she could also be one of those 'way to early' picks.
I really like Gabby but her tweener status with no shot certainly raises warning flags about her career. She could develop...


Mosqueda-Lewis was so overhyped in college. She would've been the #1 pick if Loyd & Zahui B didn't enter early. When looking at that draft now, it was a weak draft. Cloud went #15 while four first round picks are out of the league(unless Boyd gets picked up).


She was the greatest 3-point shooter in the history of college basketball and she won how many national championships? Plus, she was the Gator Aid National High School player of the year. This is not hype, it's performance.

At that time, in a very weak Draft, Seattle felt she was a lottery pick and they wanted a three point shooter. Some times players pan out and sometimes not so well no matter what school they attended.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 04/25/20 8:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RavenDog wrote:
toad455 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
In recent times, KML was clearly picked way too early.
It's yet to be seen about MoJeff, but she could also be one of those 'way to early' picks.
I really like Gabby but her tweener status with no shot certainly raises warning flags about her career. She could develop...


Mosqueda-Lewis was so overhyped in college. She would've been the #1 pick if Loyd & Zahui B didn't enter early. When looking at that draft now, it was a weak draft. Cloud went #15 while four first round picks are out of the league(unless Boyd gets picked up).


She was the greatest 3-point shooter in the history of college basketball and she won how many national championships? Plus, she was the Gator Aid National High School player of the year. This is not hype, it's performance.

At that time, in a very weak Draft, Seattle felt she was a lottery pick and they wanted a three point shooter. Some times players pan out and sometimes not so well no matter what school they attended.


her height, lack of mobility and athleticism, no defense, and tendency to be overweight were features that anyone watching her should have noticed. I thought maybe she would get inspired to lose some of the excess and that maybe that would help increase the mobility...but apparently she didn't want to try that experiment. For a lottery pick, that was a lot of 'if'. Typically you want a player who is already good and has a lot of potential to improve, not someone who has already maxed out. And it should be clear that a shooter who can only stand out at the 3 pt line and shoot doesn't have a great chance to make it in the W. If I remember right Geno himself said she could be good if the team used her as a spot up shooter. Seattle would have been better off with one of the available posts. But you are right about it being a weak draft year, so... One of the problems with UConn players is that Geno is really good at hiding deficiencies because he usually has a number of other players who can do the things the person in question can't do...and he's a really good coach.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 04/25/20 8:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Even now though, looking at what came after KML in that draft, I can understand taking the shot that she'd get in shape to become serviceable at other parts of the game while bringing elite outside shooting with her from college. Almost everyone who came after her either washed out of the league quickly or took years to become of any meaningful value at WNBA level. They took a shot, and it didn't work out.

That said, I can't be bothered to go back and break it down, but I remember Elizabeth Williams looking like a much better fit for what Seattle needed at the time. So there were other issues with the choice as well. She wasn't walking into a perfect fit.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 04/25/20 8:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I posted this a few weeks ago, but if we were to re-draft the 2015 draft, KML would be a late-first round pick. And that's only because it's a weak draft.

1. Seattle - Loyd
2. Tulsa - Cloud
3. Seattle - Hamby
4. Connecticut - Zahui B
5. Chicago - E. Williams
6. San Antonio - C. Parker
7. Los Angeles - I. Harrison
8. Washington - Mosqueda-Lewis
9. New York - K. Stokes
10. Atlanta - B. Laney
11. New York - R. Gray
12. Phoenix - B. Boyd



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/25/20 8:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not sure Cloud would have been successful for another coach



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mavcarter
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PostPosted: 04/25/20 10:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
I'm not sure Cloud would have been successful for another coach


Agreed.



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RavenDog



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PostPosted: 04/26/20 1:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Even now though, looking at what came after KML in that draft, I can understand taking the shot that she'd get in shape to become serviceable at other parts of the game while bringing elite outside shooting with her from college. Almost everyone who came after her either washed out of the league quickly or took years to become of any meaningful value at WNBA level. They took a shot, and it didn't work out.

That said, I can't be bothered to go back and break it down, but I remember Elizabeth Williams looking like a much better fit for what Seattle needed at the time. So there were other issues with the choice as well. She wasn't walking into a perfect fit.


I agree, I too thought Elizabeth Williams was the better pick for Seattle, at the time.


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PostPosted: 04/26/20 3:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RavenDog wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Even now though, looking at what came after KML in that draft, I can understand taking the shot that she'd get in shape to become serviceable at other parts of the game while bringing elite outside shooting with her from college. Almost everyone who came after her either washed out of the league quickly or took years to become of any meaningful value at WNBA level. They took a shot, and it didn't work out.

That said, I can't be bothered to go back and break it down, but I remember Elizabeth Williams looking like a much better fit for what Seattle needed at the time. So there were other issues with the choice as well. She wasn't walking into a perfect fit.


I agree, I too thought Elizabeth Williams was the better pick for Seattle, at the time.


However, despite her shortcomings (which are many) E-Will might have been good enough to reduce the ping pong ball count in the upcoming Stewart lottery which was Seattle's apparent objective.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 04/30/20 8:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Auriemma warned the WNBA about Mosqueda-Lewis. He said she could do well “in the right situation” (which involved her being able to get open looks from three) and some other comments that let you know she was no #1 pick. Even UConn homer Doris Burke talked gingerly about KMLs’ defensive limitations or liabilities. Starting on a dominant multi-year championship team can get you overrated and people not noticing that you don’t have the size or quickness to be a good WNBA three.

Rebecca Lobo gave a similar assessment recently regarding Walker - that she could succeed in the WNBA “in the right situation”.


Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 04/30/20 1:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Auriemma warned the WNBA about Mosqueda-Lewis. He said she could do well “in the right situation” (which involved her being able to get open looks from three) and some other comments that let you know she was no #1 pick. Even UConn homer Doris Burke talked gingerly about KMLs’ defensive limitations or liabilities. Starting on a dominant multi-year championship team can get you overrated and people not noticing that you don’t have the size or quickness to be a good WNBA three.

Rebecca Lobo gave a similar assessment recently regarding Walker - that she could succeed in the WNBA “in the right situation”.

So how do we decipher "in the right situation "? Is Walker a player that a team would have to set screens for to get her an open shot at the basket? Can she create her own shot with her dribbling skills and quickness?



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 04/30/20 2:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Right situation" suggests to me significant weaknesses that can be masked by the shape of the lineup (excellent defenders already, say) or the style of play.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 04/30/20 3:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
"Right situation" suggests to me significant weaknesses that can be masked by the shape of the lineup (excellent defenders already, say) or the style of play.


Or perhaps it suggests a team without any pressing concern for winning games anytime soon.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 04/30/20 3:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
ClayK wrote:
"Right situation" suggests to me significant weaknesses that can be masked by the shape of the lineup (excellent defenders already, say) or the style of play.


Or perhaps it suggests a team without any pressing concern for winning games anytime soon.


Or without a strong established player at the same position.

Las Vegas would be a bad place for PF Lauren Cox, as the best young player in the league plays the same position there, so she would have trouble ever seeing the floor. Indiana would seem like a good place, because they have an aging vet at the same position and a dominant force playing at center, both of which will let her ease in with some comfort.


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PostPosted: 04/30/20 7:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
tfan wrote:
Auriemma warned the WNBA about Mosqueda-Lewis. He said she could do well “in the right situation” (which involved her being able to get open looks from three) and some other comments that let you know she was no #1 pick. Even UConn homer Doris Burke talked gingerly about KMLs’ defensive limitations or liabilities. Starting on a dominant multi-year championship team can get you overrated and people not noticing that you don’t have the size or quickness to be a good WNBA three.

Rebecca Lobo gave a similar assessment recently regarding Walker - that she could succeed in the WNBA “in the right situation”.

So how do we decipher "in the right situation "?


I will say that I think KML didn't really have the "right situation" luxury here in Seattle with a combination of Clark, O'Hea, and Quinn playing the 3 and naturally blocking her from that kind of open opportunity throughout her years here. And once Whitcomb burst onto the scene, the one skill KML brought to the team suddenly became redundant. Although in practice she probably never showed that she could handle it, none of our coaches had ever really committed to thrusting her into the spotlight anyway. Imo it would've been better for her if she had been thrown into the mix like Jewell Loyd was (who of course from the jump blocked her from experimenting getting meaningful minutes at the 2), even if she would've completely failed - just to see what she could really be capable of. And as a bench player, she often wasn't surrounded by better talent most of the time when she did play due to her being played with other bench players, so a defender was always able to key in on her. That's why I'm rooting for KML to start in Connecticut, if she's good enough to make the team (otherwise, if she's going to go back to being a bench player, I'm convinced she won't be of any use and may as well be cut. Kind of a contradictory opinion for me to have, but that's how I feel). I very much doubt that happens, though.

Whichever of the Liberty rookies makes the roster (with Walker being sure to) I'm guessing will get enough opportunity in both practices and games to show their stuff. Walker's already in a better place than KML is in at least, and she doesn't have the glaring deficiencies KML had either. She moves well and can spot-up shoot or hit pull-up mid-rangers, but she can also rebound and to me isn't a defensive liability (at least at the 3). Like many conventional players, she has both offensive & defensive potential. I doubt she sticks with the Liberty her whole career and becomes a franchise cornerstone, but I don't see why she won't end up having a long career in general, if not a good one.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 04/30/20 7:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
tfan wrote:
Auriemma warned the WNBA about Mosqueda-Lewis. He said she could do well “in the right situation” (which involved her being able to get open looks from three) and some other comments that let you know she was no #1 pick. Even UConn homer Doris Burke talked gingerly about KMLs’ defensive limitations or liabilities. Starting on a dominant multi-year championship team can get you overrated and people not noticing that you don’t have the size or quickness to be a good WNBA three.

Rebecca Lobo gave a similar assessment recently regarding Walker - that she could succeed in the WNBA “in the right situation”.

So how do we decipher "in the right situation "? Is Walker a player that a team would have to set screens for to get her an open shot at the basket? Can she create her own shot with her dribbling skills and quickness?


Here’s the article. She makes it sound like Walker needs to be set up for an open three. I haven’t really seen her play but physique-wise she looks a lot more athletic than KML.

https://www.ctinsider.com/sports/ctpost/article/Lobo-In-the-right-situation-UConn-s-Walker-15198025.php


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PostPosted: 04/30/20 8:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
I haven’t really seen her play but physique-wise she looks a lot more athletic than KML.


She is, then again, Walker is being compared to a player whose athleticism is almost non-existent.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 04/30/20 9:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
tfan wrote:
I haven’t really seen her play but physique-wise she looks a lot more athletic than KML.


She is, then again, Walker is being compared to a player whose athleticism is almost non-existent.


I was pretty surprised to hear Lobo say that. I don't think there's any comparison. Walker is better than KML at almost everything except maybe shooting threes. My thought when she said it was that maybe Walker isn't the brightest light so takes a long time to learn new stuff. I have no idea if that is true so don't want to start a rumor to that effect but it was the only thing I could think of that would make Lobo say that. OTOH we've seen Walker clearly learn different positions and be useful in different ways throughout her college career so that would kind of belie such a thought. Was Lobo just down on her because she left early? I usually trust Lobo's analysis so this was just puzzling to me. I guess we'll see how Walker lets her game speak for itself.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 04/30/20 10:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Walker tried to dunk during a high school game. She didn't succeed, but is it a thought that would even cross KML's mind? They are nowhere comparable as athletes.



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PostPosted: 04/30/20 10:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
tfan wrote:
I haven’t really seen her play but physique-wise she looks a lot more athletic than KML.


She is, then again, Walker is being compared to a player whose athleticism is almost non-existent.


Noooooo, why you do this lmao



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PostPosted: 04/30/20 11:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Walker tried to dunk during a high school game. She didn't succeed, but is it a thought that would even cross KML's mind? They are nowhere comparable as athletes.

KML can dunk. She can dunk some French Fries in some ketchup. She can dunk a cookie in some ice cream. She can dunk a donut into some hot chocolate. SHE CAN DUNK! Very Happy



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PostPosted: 04/30/20 11:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Walker is a much better athlete than KML. Walker is more versatile as well.
I think Walker got a slow foot speed reputation, but she’s fast in transition and slashing to the basket. So I think the lack of foot speed is more worrisome guarding quicker players on the perimeter and trying to force the issue one on one, where I still think she has potential.

I still think she can be a future all star, and all players need to go to a team with the “right situation” to succeed, imo. Look at Canada and Russell stepping in for Bird and Stewie last season. Their numbers weren’t great before because they were playing behind stars. They didn’t turn into stars, but they succeeded because they were in the right situation.

So when it comes to Lobo and her assessment of Walker and being successful “in the right situation”, I think she’s right. But I think that’s true of every player. The exception being franchise players like Maya Moore, EDD etc.


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PostPosted: 04/30/20 11:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The right situation for any player is to be able to start ASAP. That player will either swim or sink. The second best situation is to play at least twenty minutes per game. With that amount playing time a player can demonstrate what she can do.



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