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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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 Posted: 06/30/20 4:36 pm ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
| Based on Duke's recent history of turning out over-achieving WNBA players, I have to say I do see Gorecki having a career in this league. The only ones who haven't really panned out have been Tricia Liston and Rebecca Greenwell. Gorecki is way more athletic than Liston, stronger than Greenwell, and more versatile, a better rebounder, passer and defender, and as good of a shooter as both. |
Gorecki is nowhere near as good of a shooter as Greenwell or even Liston.
Gorecki is a do-everything player at the college level, but I do not see her having a WNBA career. She does a lot of things well, but nothing elite.
I see her much closer to Kelly Faris - someone who had an amazing senior year outperforming expectations and earning a host of accolades, but not someone who made an impact at the professional level.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
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| Posted: 06/30/20 5:55 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| Based on Duke's recent history of turning out over-achieving WNBA players, I have to say I do see Gorecki having a career in this league. The only ones who haven't really panned out have been Tricia Liston and Rebecca Greenwell. Gorecki is way more athletic than Liston, stronger than Greenwell, and more versatile, a better rebounder, passer and defender, and as good of a shooter as both. |
Gorecki is nowhere near as good of a shooter as Greenwell or even Liston.
Gorecki is a do-everything player at the college level, but I do not see her having a WNBA career. She does a lot of things well, but nothing elite.
I see her much closer to Kelly Faris - someone who had an amazing senior year outperforming expectations and earning a host of accolades, but not someone who made an impact at the professional level. |
Still, even Faris had her fair share of chances in the League. And based on watching both players (albeit casually), I'd say that Gorecki generally speaking is a hair better than Faris, so I'd like to see Gorecki get at least one chance as well - particularly if a team recognizes that she's no PG, thus won't bother trying to play her there. 
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63771
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| Posted: 06/30/20 7:00 pm ::: |
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Does anybody want to know how many statistical categories Gorecki led in Duke team stats this past season? This may take awhile.
GP 30 (tied with 4 other players, Odom not one them)
GS 30
MIN 1095
MPG 36.5
FGA 413
3FGM 60
3FGA 178
FTM 166 (2nd place Odom, 44)
FTA 194 (2nd place Odom, 71)
FT% 85.6
DREB 160
REB 199
RPG 6.6
AST 131
TO 115
STL 62
PTS 554
PPG 18.5
Categories Odom led
FGM 176
FG% 54.7 (not including Schubert’s 1-1)
PF 84
DQ 5
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 06/30/20 10:18 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| Still, even Faris had her fair share of chances in the League. And based on watching both players (albeit casually), I'd say that Gorecki generally speaking is a hair better than Faris, so I'd like to see Gorecki get at least one chance as well - particularly if a team recognizes that she's no PG, thus won't bother trying to play her there. |
Faris also has a higher basketball IQ than Gorecki (and the UConn pedigree did not hurt). Gorecki has not had the same basketball instruction at Duke as compared to Faris.
| Shades wrote: |
Does anybody want to know how many statistical categories Gorecki led in Duke team stats this past season? This may take awhile.
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Does not make her a viable WNBA player.
Gorecki was injured her first year and redshirted. She was also injured midseason in both the 2015-16 and 2017-18 campaigns with hip injuries.
Junior Year (Duke was 15-15):
.365 from the floor, .219 from three, 116 assists to 108 turnovers
Senior Year (Duke was 18-12):
.397 from the floor, .337 from three, 131 assists to 115 turnovers
She would be a shooting guard in the WNBA. She was a fantastic college player, who gave it her all and maximized her potential. And with her ceiling reached, she is not as viable a prospect as others.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 07/01/20 11:40 am ::: |
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When you lead in minutes played, your odds of leading in counting stats go up significantly ...
And of course, stats can't measure athleticism, which is where Odom has a major advantage.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 07/01/20 8:38 pm ::: |
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| There are a number of players who did very well in college but can't come close to duplicating it in the WNBA because they are not quick enough and/or don’t have the height/arm-length to do well at "the next level". Rachel Banham was so good in B10 college she got on Kobe Bryant's radar. But she's not good enough to start in the WNBA. Gorecki could have good ACC college stats but also not have the quickness and length to play in the WNBA.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16358
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: 07/04/20 3:52 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| There are a number of players who did very well in college but can't come close to duplicating it in the WNBA because they are not quick enough and/or don’t have the height/arm-length to do well at "the next level". Rachel Banham was so good in B10 college she got on Kobe Bryant's radar. But she's not good enough to start in the WNBA. Gorecki could have good ACC college stats but also not have the quickness and length to play in the WNBA. |
There are so many examples of this ... but I don't think Rachel Banham is one. Banham never led her Minnesota team to the NCAA tournament. The one year they made it while she was there, she missed the whole season to injury, i.e. they were better without her than with her. There are very, very few examples of major conference players who never made a NCAA tournament to become even serviceable WNBA players.
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SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 4241
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: 07/04/20 11:04 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| There are so many examples of this ... but I don't think Rachel Banham is one. Banham never led her Minnesota team to the NCAA tournament. The one year they made it while she was there, she missed the whole season to injury, i.e. they were better without her than with her. There are very, very few examples of major conference players who never made a NCAA tournament to become even serviceable WNBA players. |
Banham may have been overrated coming out of college, like most Big Ten stars are, but the reason Minnesota never made the NCAA Tournament with her has to do with Minnesota's tradition of having lousy head coaches. Also, her RS SR year she only had 1 other player better than half-decent on the team (so they would've been really bad without her), while the year she got injured 10 games into the season, they had Zahui B and Shae Kelley as well.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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Location: Chicago
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| Posted: 07/04/20 11:08 pm ::: |
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| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| There are so many examples of this ... but I don't think Rachel Banham is one. Banham never led her Minnesota team to the NCAA tournament. The one year they made it while she was there, she missed the whole season to injury, i.e. they were better without her than with her. There are very, very few examples of major conference players who never made a NCAA tournament to become even serviceable WNBA players. |
Banham may have been overrated coming out of college, like most Big Ten stars are, but the reason Minnesota never made the NCAA Tournament with her has to do with Minnesota's tradition of having lousy head coaches. Also, her RS SR year she only had 1 other player better than half-decent on the team (so they would've been really bad without her), while the year she got injured 10 games into the season, they had Zahui B and Shae Kelley as well. |
Banham never made the NCAA tournament because she wasn't the kind of player who could lead her team even a decent record. It's no surprise that a player like that can't contribute as a pro. They never can.
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SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 4241
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: 07/04/20 11:18 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| Banham never made the NCAA tournament because she wasn't the kind of player who could lead her team even a decent record. It's no surprise that a player like that can't contribute as a pro. They never can. |
She never made the NCAA Tournament because she decided to play for Minnesota and their lousy head coaches. A lot of Big Ten superstars have made the NCAA Tournament and never contributed much as pros—Banham being injured hasn't helped.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12537
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 07/07/20 7:53 am ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| There are a number of players who did very well in college but can't come close to duplicating it in the WNBA because they are not quick enough and/or don’t have the height/arm-length to do well at "the next level". Rachel Banham was so good in B10 college she got on Kobe Bryant's radar. But she's not good enough to start in the WNBA. Gorecki could have good ACC college stats but also not have the quickness and length to play in the WNBA. |
+1
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 07/12/20 4:45 am ::: |
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There is a HUGE difference between Gorecki and Faris. While Faris was the beneficiary of open looks due to Geno's offense, Gorecki was a creative and dynamic scorer in a system that had no offensive system at all. Every point Faris scored in college was because she was the 4th or 5th option on offense and the D generally forgot about her.
Gorecki, however, was the focal point of the defense on EVERY PLAY and she still managed to put up numbers that led her team in almost every stat. She had to create shots for herself and opportunities for her teammates that Kelly Faris was never for SECOND asked to create. Totally different weight in term of usage compared to team success.
Faris was never a WNBA player, but she made it there because of her college pedigree. I would argue the exact opposite of Haley Gorecki.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 07/12/20 9:27 am ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
There is a HUGE difference between Gorecki and Faris. While Faris was the beneficiary of open looks due to Geno's offense, Gorecki was a creative and dynamic scorer in a system that had no offensive system at all. Every point Faris scored in college was because she was the 4th or 5th option on offense and the D generally forgot about her.
Gorecki, however, was the focal point of the defense on EVERY PLAY and she still managed to put up numbers that led her team in almost every stat. She had to create shots for herself and opportunities for her teammates that Kelly Faris was never for SECOND asked to create. Totally different weight in term of usage compared to team success.
Faris was never a WNBA player, but she made it there because of her college pedigree. I would argue the exact opposite of Haley Gorecki. |
I'm not that familiar with Gorecki, so no comment there ...
But Faris was an excellent defender, understood the game and was willing to play whatever role was required. Pedigree will get you in the door, but it won't keep you on the team. Faris wasn't a great player, or maybe even a good one, but she was reasonably athletic, understood her role and again, had a high basketball IQ. Coaches love to have players like that at the end of their rotation, because they can give you a few minutes and not kill you with mental mistakes or defensive disasters.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 07/12/20 10:56 am ::: |
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| 'smartness' is an interesting factor. So many things go into making a good bball player. I've seen players with great athleticism and/or great skill who just couldn't make it because they lacked smarts, either as in IQ or as in bball smarts. And there are some players who have made it mostly on smarts rather than athleticism and/or skill, though of course they must have at least a reasonable level of both. And of course there are other factors - a big one being attitude...another willingness to work. It's always interesting to see rookies who come in - how they put these factors together.
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if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 07/12/20 11:42 am ::: |
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It's funny ... athletic IQ -- the ability to grasp the "shape of the game," if that makes any sense, and to understand what's likely to happen next -- is almost a separate trait. There are some players who just get where they should be on the floor, and others need to be told over and over again.
It also comes with time and experience.
But one really underrated aspect of a player's game is being in the right place at the right time. If you are, the game becomes much easier, and your team is better. Of course if you can't do anything once you get there, it doesn't help quite as much.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 07/21/20 10:49 am ::: |
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WNBA Draftees Are Getting a Second Chance
https://www.si.com/wnba/2020/07/21/wnba-rookies-cut-coronavirus-second-chance-bubble
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Washington waived Agnew as the team finalized its 2020 roster. So, she shifted her focus to securing a contract to play overseas in Russia starting in September while refining her skills in case another WNBA opportunity came up.
The first call from Atlanta Dream head coach Nicki Collen, following WNBA vet Renee Montgomery’s decision to sit out the 2020 season, was to inform Agnew of her interest.
The next day, the coach asked her whether she wanted to join the Dream.
“I was like, Heck yeah,” Agnew says. |
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| The lack of visibility especially hurt third-rounders like Erica Ogwumike, who Lynx GM and manager Cheryl Reeve said had a realistic chance to make the final cut in Minnesota. |
There’s no way she had a realistic chance of making the team. Remember at draft time, Zandalasini was expected to show up this season. If she would have shown up, Dangerfield would be the bottom of the totem pole right now.
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| The Storm drafted Duke’s Haley Gorecki at No. 33 on April 17. She is a versatile guard who played a massive role in Duke’s entry into the NCAA tournament conversation last season due to her ability to get into the lane or score from three-point range. As a redshirt senior, she averaged 18.0 points, 6.5 rebounds, 4.0 assists and 2.0 steals, something no other Power 5 player did last season. |
“Massive role” is putting it lightly. She was the team.
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While Gorecki understands the situation and that players needed to get paid, there’s a sting that comes with being cut without having a chance to prove yourself.
“I would get super frustrated and upset and my brother would go like, ‘Haley, it’s out of your control,’ ” she says. “This whole process has been very fun, and I know my career will still go on. I’m staying optimistic. I’m really excited for everything to happen that’s coming and for next year as well.”
She wants to play for as long as she can and is preparing to play for Basket Zaragoza in Spain. While with her family in Palatine, Ill., the self-proclaimed gym rat has kept working out consistently in her routine. |
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| “I mean, of course I wanted to come in and, you know, play in the WNBA and have that opportunity,” Gillespie says. “But I think if you look at the bigger picture, maybe it is the better chance for me to develop and then come back.” |
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“I just tried to stay positive and I stayed in the gym. And just so happened, I got a call from my agent one day, and he was like, ‘I hope you are in shape,’ and I'm like ‘What, stop playing. Stop playing, what am I in shape for?’” she says.
Sparks head coach Derek Fisher and general manager Michael Fisher called, asked her about herself and her thoughts on the Sparks. On June 28, the team announced her signing. |
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| She was shocked when Chicago called to sign her. Sydney Colson tested positive for COVID-19, and Sky head coach James Wade had his eye on Johnson during the NCAA season because of her efficiency, toughness and consistency. |
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Now, she’s working to get comfortable calling plays as a WNBA point guard.
In practice, Courtney Vandersloot, Allie Quigely and Diamond DeShields are giving her advice. She’s also been “comparing notes” with fellow rookie Ruthy Hebard. Like Cooper, she’s become a sponge in training camp and taking advantage of a second opportunity to join the WNBA. |
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
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| Posted: 09/13/20 11:36 pm ::: |
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Rookies that can throw their rookie year in the garbage and start fresh next year:
#1. Sabrina Ionescu - played 3 games before season-ending ankle injury
#3. Lauren Cox - beginning of season delayed due to contracting COVID, battled multiple injuries throughout the season
#9. Megan Walker - beginning of season delayed due to contracting COVID, battled injury and a nasty shooting slump throughout the season
#17. Brittany Brewer - appeared in just 5 games, 33 minutes total despite being on the roster healthy the whole season
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