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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
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PostPosted: 04/08/20 2:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
ucbart wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Crissakes...if Vic gets the Texas job, he might catch Geno.



Texas will become the UCONN of the south and Vic may retire with the 3rd-most NCs. If Geno/Tara/Kim etc) had been at UT since 1985, they'd have 20 titles.

Happiest person hearing the news- Dawn.

Most pissed-Kim, although I believe she might like the challenge.

Now Howee will see what a real coach can do. Wink


Dude, 20? I doubt that-He should've won the 2017 & 2018 NC and couldn't do it.


He shouldn't have won either one. He faced and lost to a significantly more talented team each year.


Now, THERE'S *hyperbole* for ya, ct. Laughing ANDDDD.... he took his team to the Final Game in his 5th & 6th seasons. That's highly commendable.


I guess his hiatus has ended. Oh well. Let the bs renew.

Schaeffer is in my wcb coach top tier.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/08/20 10:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:


Schaeffer is in my wcb coach top tier.


Mine as well. Great coach, built something from nothing at Miss St, great hire for Texas.

I didnt understand your comment though that Dawn was happy about this. Why?


lynxmania



Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 9319
Location: Minnesota


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PostPosted: 04/08/20 10:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:


Schaeffer is in my wcb coach top tier.


Mine as well. Great coach, built something from nothing at Miss St, great hire for Texas.

I didnt understand your comment though that Dawn was happy about this. Why?


I assume it would be because she wouldn't have to face him anymore in conference.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 04/08/20 10:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Because Dawn won't have to face him 2-3 times/year? While that seems logical, I'm not sure she's that intimidated.


ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: New York


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PostPosted: 04/08/20 11:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Because Dawn won't have to face him 2-3 times/year? While that seems logical, I'm not sure she's that intimidated.


I think it pulls her further away as the clear front runner in the SEC. IMO, with similar talent level teams, Scaheffer can out coach Dawn by a country mile. Until this year, I didn't think Dawn was a good coach at all. And I still don't think she is that great of an X's and O's coach in the half court. SC was good because of speed, power, and athleticism. She is this generations Pat Summit.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/08/20 2:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Because Dawn won't have to face him 2-3 times/year? While that seems logical, I'm not sure she's that intimidated.


I didn't say, nor do I think, Dawn was intimidated.

But, now there is no one to challenge her in the SEC.



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Davis4632



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PostPosted: 04/08/20 2:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Because Dawn won't have to face him 2-3 times/year? While that seems logical, I'm not sure she's that intimidated.


I think it pulls her further away as the clear front runner in the SEC. IMO, with similar talent level teams, Scaheffer can out coach Dawn by a country mile. Until this year, I didn't think Dawn was a good coach at all. And I still don't think she is that great of an X's and O's coach in the half court. SC was good because of speed, power, and athleticism. She is this generations Pat Summit.


I guess since it's all about UConn, I guess Dawn finally became a became a good coach because she finally defeated UConn. The narrative that Dawn was intimidated by Vic isn't true. Dawn has a winning record against Vic, including defeating him in the national championship game. Dawn went 7-1 against Vic in the A'ja Wilson era, Vic went 1-7 against Dawn he had Vivians and McCowan together. Dawn has won 5 regular and 5 tournament titles while Vic was the coach at Miss St.


ucbart



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PostPosted: 04/08/20 2:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Davis4632 wrote:
ucbart wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Because Dawn won't have to face him 2-3 times/year? While that seems logical, I'm not sure she's that intimidated.


I think it pulls her further away as the clear front runner in the SEC. IMO, with similar talent level teams, Scaheffer can out coach Dawn by a country mile. Until this year, I didn't think Dawn was a good coach at all. And I still don't think she is that great of an X's and O's coach in the half court. SC was good because of speed, power, and athleticism. She is this generations Pat Summit.


I guess since it's all about UConn, I guess Dawn finally became a became a good coach because she finally defeated UConn. The narrative that Dawn was intimidated by Vic isn't true. Dawn has a winning record against Vic, including defeating him in the national championship game. Dawn went 7-1 against Vic in the A'ja Wilson era, Vic went 1-7 against Dawn he had Vivians and McCowan together. Dawn has won 5 regular and 5 tournament titles while Vic was the coach at Miss St.


That is NOT what I said, like at all. I said it widens the gap. And then I explained why. I actually think her win against UCONN did nothing for her ability to coach this year.....because frankly, she should've beaten us this year. I think it says more about her coaching that we've used SC like a snot rag every time we've played them, prior to this season.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/08/20 3:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Davis4632 wrote:
ucbart wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Because Dawn won't have to face him 2-3 times/year? While that seems logical, I'm not sure she's that intimidated.


I think it pulls her further away as the clear front runner in the SEC. IMO, with similar talent level teams, Scaheffer can out coach Dawn by a country mile. Until this year, I didn't think Dawn was a good coach at all. And I still don't think she is that great of an X's and O's coach in the half court. SC was good because of speed, power, and athleticism. She is this generations Pat Summit.


I guess since it's all about UConn, I guess Dawn finally became a became a good coach because she finally defeated UConn. The narrative that Dawn was intimidated by Vic isn't true. Dawn has a winning record against Vic, including defeating him in the national championship game. Dawn went 7-1 against Vic in the A'ja Wilson era, Vic went 1-7 against Dawn he had Vivians and McCowan together. Dawn has won 5 regular and 5 tournament titles while Vic was the coach at Miss St.



Mainly because there NEVER WAS such a narrative. Rolling Eyes



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RavenDog



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PostPosted: 04/08/20 3:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Let the New Era Begin... Welcome Vic!


Davis4632



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PostPosted: 04/08/20 3:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
Davis4632 wrote:
ucbart wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Because Dawn won't have to face him 2-3 times/year? While that seems logical, I'm not sure she's that intimidated.


I think it pulls her further away as the clear front runner in the SEC. IMO, with similar talent level teams, Scaheffer can out coach Dawn by a country mile. Until this year, I didn't think Dawn was a good coach at all. And I still don't think she is that great of an X's and O's coach in the half court. SC was good because of speed, power, and athleticism. She is this generations Pat Summit.


I guess since it's all about UConn, I guess Dawn finally became a became a good coach because she finally defeated UConn. The narrative that Dawn was intimidated by Vic isn't true. Dawn has a winning record against Vic, including defeating him in the national championship game. Dawn went 7-1 against Vic in the A'ja Wilson era, Vic went 1-7 against Dawn he had Vivians and McCowan together. Dawn has won 5 regular and 5 tournament titles while Vic was the coach at Miss St.


That is NOT what I said, like at all. I said it widens the gap. And then I explained why. I actually think her win against UCONN did nothing for her ability to coach this year.....because frankly, she should've beaten us this year. I think it says more about her coaching that we've used SC like a snot rag every time we've played them, prior to this season.


That some revisionist history because the perception of South Carolina coming into the season was their team it was just a couple of senior role players and some freshmen.


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 04/08/20 7:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Davis4632 wrote:
ucbart wrote:
Davis4632 wrote:
ucbart wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Because Dawn won't have to face him 2-3 times/year? While that seems logical, I'm not sure she's that intimidated.


I think it pulls her further away as the clear front runner in the SEC. IMO, with similar talent level teams, Scaheffer can out coach Dawn by a country mile. Until this year, I didn't think Dawn was a good coach at all. And I still don't think she is that great of an X's and O's coach in the half court. SC was good because of speed, power, and athleticism. She is this generations Pat Summit.


I guess since it's all about UConn, I guess Dawn finally became a became a good coach because she finally defeated UConn. The narrative that Dawn was intimidated by Vic isn't true. Dawn has a winning record against Vic, including defeating him in the national championship game. Dawn went 7-1 against Vic in the A'ja Wilson era, Vic went 1-7 against Dawn he had Vivians and McCowan together. Dawn has won 5 regular and 5 tournament titles while Vic was the coach at Miss St.


That is NOT what I said, like at all. I said it widens the gap. And then I explained why. I actually think her win against UCONN did nothing for her ability to coach this year.....because frankly, she should've beaten us this year. I think it says more about her coaching that we've used SC like a snot rag every time we've played them, prior to this season.


That some revisionist history because the perception of South Carolina coming into the season was their team it was just a couple of senior role players and some freshmen.




Preseason SCar was 8/10, UConn was 5/4. By Week 11, SCar was 1/2 and UConn was 4/5. The game was played in week 15.

UConn was the obvious underdog and the game evolved that way. Massey predicted an 8 pt Cocks win and the final was 70-52.



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Conway Gamecock



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PostPosted: 04/08/20 7:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Because Dawn won't have to face him 2-3 times/year? While that seems logical, I'm not sure she's that intimidated.


I think it pulls her further away as the clear front runner in the SEC. IMO, with similar talent level teams, Scaheffer can out coach Dawn by a country mile. Until this year, I didn't think Dawn was a good coach at all. And I still don't think she is that great of an X's and O's coach in the half court. SC was good because of speed, power, and athleticism. She is this generations Pat Summit.


Pretty interesting take. Schaefer was 3-12 versus Dawn Staley during his time at Miss State. He brought the Bulldog program to national status, but with his best talent he was 0-4 versus USC in the SECT championship game, and 0-1 in NCAAT championship games.

His best year against Staley and USC was the 2018-19 season which many can argue was Schaefer's best team in terms of depth and talent, and can also argue that that season was Staley's least-prepared team since the 2010-11 season. Schaefer won 2 of his 3 games that season - he was 1-12 in all other seasons. That is pretty much considered being dominated by most other standards.

Schaefer's signature strength that he brings to teams is his defensive philosophies. He handled the defense when he was Gary Blair's assistant coach at Texas A&M, that helped them win the national championship in 2011. He carried that over to Starkville, and it has been their primary team strength in his time there.

Dawn Staley's signature strength is also defense. Under Staley, USC's defensive rankings on a league and national scale have been elite:

Scoring Defense: - USC (SEC/WCBB) - MSU's ranking under Schaefer

08-09: 158th / 8th
09-10: 205th / 10th
10-11: 90th / 6th
11-12: 4th / 1st
12-13: 5th / 1st - 187th / 8th
13-14: 8th / 2nd - 72nd / 7th
14-15: 12th / 1st - 38th / 6th
15-16: 25th / 2nd - 27th / 3rd
16-17: 24th / 1st - 35th / 2nd
17-18: 81st / 5th - 21st / 1st
18-19: 227th / 9th - 39th / 2nd
19-20: 20th / 1st - 85th / 5th


FG % Defense:

08-09: 255th / 12th
09-10: 247th / 11th
10-11: 297th / 11th
11-12: 108th / 4th - 50th / 2nd
12-13: 32nd / 1st - 123rd / 7th
13-14: 5th / 1st - 177th / 10th
14-15: 10th / 1st - 56th / 5th
15-16: 11th / 1st - 94th / 8th
16-17: 19th / 1st - 153rd / 9th
17-18: 27th / 2nd - 101st / 5th
18-19: 143rd / 6th - 84th / 4th
19-20: 4th / 1st - 145th / 6th


Schaefer was never Staley's level at coaching consistent, stellar defense: only 1 team can lead a league at any one time, but Schaefer's teams only reached the top 25 national scoring defense once, compared to 7 times for Staley - plus 3 top 10 times, versus 0 times for Schaefer.

As for FG % D, Miss State only reached the top 50 national rankings once, and that was 50th, compared to USC having 7 top 50, 5 top 25, and 3 top 10 FG % D rankings under Staley.

Finally, this notion of "SC was good because of speed, power, and athleticism" - what team in the SEC doesn't have athleticism? That was what Pat Summitt brought to the SEC. And calling a Miss. State team with Morgan Williams a team without speed, or a Miss State team with Teaira McCowan a team without power, or a Miss State team with Victoria Vivians or Anriel Howard a team without athleticism, well......you might be trying a bit too hard there.....




Last edited by Conway Gamecock on 04/08/20 9:04 pm; edited 3 times in total
calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 04/08/20 7:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I really don't see how people can just assume Vic Schaeffer will be a total success at Texas. He has shown that he is a very good coach in Starkville, but coaching in Austin is a very different thing. Charlie Strong was a great young football coach who built Louisville into a national powerhouse. He went to Texas and 3 years later he was run out of town on a rail. Gail Goestenkors was at the top of women's college basketball, having gone 157-19 in her final 5 years at Duke (Geno was 157-22.) And Karen Aston came in under great fanfare, having had great success at Charlotte and winning 15 games in her 1 season at North Texas, more than the Mean Green had won in their previous 2 years combined.

Vic Schaeffer may be successful at UT, but Austin is a far cry from Starkville. I will wait and see.


Conway Gamecock



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PostPosted: 04/08/20 8:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Scoring Offense:


12-13: 183rd / 13th - 287th / 14th
13-14: 63rd / 4th - 93rd / 7th
14-15: 18th / 1st - 30th / 3rd
15-16: 33rd / 3rd - 82nd / 5th
16-17: 20th / 1st - 22nd / 2nd
17-18: 37th / 4th - 11th / 1st
18-19: 28th / 2nd - 2nd / 1st
19-20: 6th / 2nd - 12th / 3rd


FG %:


12-13: 155th / 11th - 271st / 12th
13-14: 6th / 1st - 199th / 12th
14-15: 4th / 1st - 171st / 9th
15-16: 16th / 2nd - 168th / 10th
16-17: 6th / 1st - 28th / 3rd
17-18: 10th / 1st - 14th / 2nd
18-19: 43rd / 5th - 5th / 1st
19-20: 10th / 2nd - 9th / 1st


Even offensively, Dawn Staley has out-performed Vic Shaefer: in scoring offense, MSU had 1 more top 25 ranking than USC, but USC had 6 consecutive top 50 rankings to MSU's 5 total top 50 rankings, and out-ranked MSU 6 seasons out of 8.

And USC was easily the better shooting team as well, with 4 first-place finishes in the SEC to MSU's 2, and 5 top 10 national finishes to 2 for MSU as well....


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 04/08/20 11:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In general, generalizations are too general, but it's generally true that UConn fans dislike Dawn Staley.

I believe that's because they see her as a threat to their tribe, and tribalists don't like threats. I noticed this same UConn tribal phenomenon with other coaches who were treated neutrally or even favorably until they became a threat to UConn, such as Vivian Stringer, Gail Goestenkors and Muffet McGraw, at which point they became strongly disliked.

There is something about Staley that I don't like either. Maybe it's the way she dresses and talks, but I'm not sure.

However, to claim she's not an elite coach is puzzling. She turned around a struggling Temple program and turned it into a consistent A10 power, and then turned around a crappy S. Carolina program into a consistent national power. She's clearly one of the very top recruiters in the country -- which is the most important attribute for a coach -- and is also a very good defensive coach. Her offense is not as appealing to me as the best teams at UConn, Notre Dame, Stanford and now Oregon, but I can't name too many others beyond that.
cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/09/20 9:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
I really don't see how people can just assume Vic Schaeffer will be a total success at Texas. He has shown that he is a very good coach in Starkville, but coaching in Austin is a very different thing. Charlie Strong was a great young football coach who built Louisville into a national powerhouse. He went to Texas and 3 years later he was run out of town on a rail. Gail Goestenkors was at the top of women's college basketball, having gone 157-19 in her final 5 years at Duke (Geno was 157-22.) And Karen Aston came in under great fanfare, having had great success at Charlotte and winning 15 games in her 1 season at North Texas, more than the Mean Green had won in their previous 2 years combined.

Vic Schaeffer may be successful at UT, but Austin is a far cry from Starkville. I will wait and see.


Indeed. I see it as Vic now has a vast pool of "local" talent at his fingertips and a National Collegiate Athletic Brand Name across his sweater. Recruiting should get easier.

Better players=better results. Smile



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summertime blues



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PostPosted: 04/09/20 11:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GG didn't really have Texas connections. Vic is a TAMU grad. See the difference there?



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/09/20 1:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
GG didn't really have Texas connections. Vic is a TAMU grad. See the difference there?


I don't see how being a TAMU grad alone means he has a Texas recruiting network or close relationships with key in-state coaches, players, handlers, etc. I don't recall him paying any special attention to Texas high schools. Fortunately for him, U of Texas largely recruits itself in Texas. But then again, Goestenkors enjoyed that same advantage and didn't do much with it.

He should consider hiring a well known Texas assistant or HS coach who already has those relationships.


pilight



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PostPosted: 04/09/20 1:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Note that none of the players on Mississippi State are from Texas



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Davis4632



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PostPosted: 04/09/20 2:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Vic's former center who is considered by many to be his best player, Teaira McCowan is from Texas. I believe Vic's daughter is from Texas too.


Carol Anne



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PostPosted: 04/11/20 8:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

“People come and watch us play, we ain’t standing around in a 2-3 zone,” [Vic] Schaefer said this week on a teleconference. “We ain’t playing hope-you-miss defense. We’re picking your butt up when you hit the city limits, and we’ll show you the door when you leave. And that’s just how we play.”
https://www.hookem.com/story/texas-coach-vic-schaefer-defense-aint-standing-around-2-3-zone/

Ain't Coach Vic somethin'--he's paid millions by a university and talks like he dropped out in sixth grade. Rolling Eyes Weird that he says "we play," when he just got to Austin.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 04/11/20 10:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Carol Anne wrote:
“People come and watch us play, we ain’t standing around in a 2-3 zone,” [Vic] Schaefer said this week on a teleconference. “We ain’t playing hope-you-miss defense. We’re picking your butt up when you hit the city limits, and we’ll show you the door when you leave. And that’s just how we play.”
https://www.hookem.com/story/texas-coach-vic-schaefer-defense-aint-standing-around-2-3-zone/

Ain't Coach Vic somethin'--he's paid millions by a university and talks like he dropped out in sixth grade. Rolling Eyes Weird that he says "we play," when he just got to Austin.


Because all his teams play that way?



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/11/20 10:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Carol Anne wrote:
“People come and watch us play, we ain’t standing around in a 2-3 zone,” [Vic] Schaefer said this week on a teleconference. “We ain’t playing hope-you-miss defense. We’re picking your butt up when you hit the city limits, and we’ll show you the door when you leave. And that’s just how we play.”
https://www.hookem.com/story/texas-coach-vic-schaefer-defense-aint-standing-around-2-3-zone/

Ain't Coach Vic somethin'--he's paid millions by a university and talks like he dropped out in sixth grade. Rolling Eyes Weird that he says "we play," when he just got to Austin.


Because all his teams play that way?


Yup. It's his signature.



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Last edited by cthskzfn on 04/11/20 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total
cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/11/20 10:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
GG didn't really have Texas connections. Vic is a TAMU grad. See the difference there?


I don't see how being a TAMU grad alone means he has a Texas recruiting network or close relationships with key in-state coaches, players, handlers, etc. I don't recall him paying any special attention to Texas high schools. Fortunately for him, U of Texas largely recruits itself in Texas. But then again, Goestenkors enjoyed that same advantage and didn't do much with it.

He should consider hiring a well known Texas assistant or HS coach who already has those relationships.


He may have contacts from his Sam Houston State head-coaching days.



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