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Who is the Greatest WNBA Player of All Time?
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bcdawg04



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PostPosted: 04/20/20 7:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pippen was one of the most underrated players in league history, but those Bulls teams weren't deep. Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman won with a bunch of role players. Their centers were guys like Cartwright, Wennington, and Longley. They won with forwards like Horace Grant, Toni Kukoc, and Dickey Simpkins, and guards like Ron Harper, BJ Armstrong, Steve Kerr, and John Paxson. Grant and Kerr were great players, but they didn't win together in Chicago.


adamj95



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PostPosted: 04/20/20 7:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To be fair, Maya was a rookie in 2011 and 2012 only in her second season. Maya followed up that 2012 finals performance with a near regular season MVP in 2013 and MVP season in 2014.



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lynxmania



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PostPosted: 04/20/20 7:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Rodman wasn't part of the initial 3-peat


That's not what plight state though.


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 04/20/20 8:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
Maya Moore has got to be one of, maybe, two players in WNBA history with multiple rings, but not multiple Finals MVPs, that people would even think about fixing their lips to call the greatest.


With Jackson and Swoopes the list might be three


The only one without multiple league MVPs, then.

Catchings was better than Moore and played at that high level longer. It's not particularly close.


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 04/20/20 8:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
pilight wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
Maya Moore has got to be one of, maybe, two players in WNBA history with multiple rings, but not multiple Finals MVPs, that people would even think about fixing their lips to call the greatest.


With Jackson and Swoopes the list might be three


The only one without multiple league MVPs, then.

Catchings was better than Moore and played at that high level longer. It's not particularly close.


And Catchings won with less talent. Douglas was injured, Larkins was their starting center and the Fever won with a 8 player rotation.



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SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 04/20/20 8:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
pilight wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
Maya Moore has got to be one of, maybe, two players in WNBA history with multiple rings, but not multiple Finals MVPs, that people would even think about fixing their lips to call the greatest.


With Jackson and Swoopes the list might be three


The only one without multiple league MVPs, then.

Catchings was better than Moore and played at that high level longer. It's not particularly close.


I voted overwhelmingly for Catchings too.
But Moore should've been MVP in 2013 and would've won Finals MVP in 2016 if they didn't blow it.


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 12:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, Maya's peak was very, very high, whatever consideration you're giving due to her teammates. Catchings wins primarily due to being so good for so freaking long.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 9:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Region A Round 4

https://twitter.com/WHoopsBlogger/status/1252601978787713024



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 9:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Whoa, Catchings didn't even reach the final 4?
Ok this contest is officially trash



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 9:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Yeah, Maya's peak was very, very high, whatever consideration you're giving due to her teammates.

My unashamed #Hateocracy aside, I've never tried to claim that Maya Moore isn't great, merely that the degree of her greatness is in dispute, for reasons already stated.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 9:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Whoa, Catchings didn't even reach the final 4?
Ok this contest is officially trash


I've been on the "This contest is trash" train since Vandersloot eliminated Yo Griffith. But definitely so, now.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 9:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Whoa, Catchings didn't even reach the final 4?
Ok this contest is officially trash


yeah, Catchings should have won. Probably more of a popularity contest as the casual fan would know Moore over Catchings.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 9:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Whoa, Catchings didn't even reach the final 4?
Ok this contest is officially trash


Wait until this later today, when Sue Bird beats Lisa Leslie.


pilight



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 9:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Between the recency bias and the UConn bias, the Bird over Leslie outcome seems inevitable



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 9:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Recency bias rules ... few players were/are more popular than Tamika Catchings.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 6:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bird has opened up a pretty good lead



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 7:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Bird has opened up a pretty good lead


So the Final Four will be three UCONN players + Jackson? Moore vs. Bird & Jackson vs. Taurasi.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 7:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It will end up with Taurasi vs Moore and i think Moore win will due to popularity.



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 7:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
It will end up with Taurasi vs Moore and i think Moore win will due to popularity.


Or Taurasi loses due to unpopularity. Razz



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Iluvacc



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 7:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
pilight wrote:
Bird has opened up a pretty good lead


So the Final Four will be three UCONN players + Jackson? Moore vs. Bird & Jackson vs. Taurasi.


Something about this just doesn't sit right with me


toad455



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 8:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Iluvacc wrote:
toad455 wrote:
pilight wrote:
Bird has opened up a pretty good lead


So the Final Four will be three UCONN players + Jackson? Moore vs. Bird & Jackson vs. Taurasi.


Something about this just doesn't sit right with me


it should've been Catchings over Moore which would've set up a Taurasi vs. Catchings final.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 8:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Whoa, Catchings didn't even reach the final 4?
Ok this contest is officially trash

I mean I'd buy that more if Maya wasn't seeded higher to begin with...

I voted for Catchings too, in fact I'm basically lockstep with spacejunkie on this one (which means we have to be right? Right?), but this isn't some huge travesty of an upset.

As Richyyy pointed out, Maya Moore for a good stretch of her career achieved a level of greatness that Catch never really scratched at. It's just that her career was so dang short compared to someone like Catch who played so long and so consistently at such an incredibly high level.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 9:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Maya Moore for a good stretch of her career achieved a level of greatness that Catch never really scratched at.


That is a ridiculous statement not supported by the evidence. Catchings' best seasons are better than Moore's best seasons. PER says so. Win Shares say so. Net +/- says so. MVP voting says so. The eye test says so.



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PostPosted: 04/21/20 9:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
As Richyyy pointed out, Maya Moore for a good stretch of her career achieved a level of greatness that Catch never really scratched at.

Just to be clear, I definitely didn't say that. I said that Maya's peak was very, very high, and that the difference between them is created primarily by Catch's longevity. I don't think you have to go too far to argue that their peaks were at a similar level, especially considering Maya was never anything like the defensive force that Catchings was.



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PostPosted: 04/22/20 1:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
justintyme wrote:
As Richyyy pointed out, Maya Moore for a good stretch of her career achieved a level of greatness that Catch never really scratched at.

Just to be clear, I definitely didn't say that. I said that Maya's peak was very, very high, and that the difference between them is created primarily by Catch's longevity. I don't think you have to go too far to argue that their peaks were at a similar level, especially considering Maya was never anything like the defensive force that Catchings was.

My apologizes for misinterpreting what you were saying.

I agree that Maya was never the defensive force that Catchings was, but Catchings was never the offensive threat that Maya was. She wasn't leading the league in scoring or anything like that. In fact, the year she won the MVP people on this board were calling it the "lifetime achievement MVP" as she never had that one dominant season--it was just that every single one of her seasons were quietly outstanding.

And when we are talking GOAT, offense weighs much more heavily than defense. I didn't vote for Maya as I thought her short career weighed too heavily against her when compared to Catchings, but say Catchings moved on like I had hoped and took on someone like Diana Taurasi. That would have been an easy vote. Diana's offensive skillset is so much greater than Catchings, and is so much more efficient, that a vote in the other direction would just feel wrong.

And yet Maya, at her best, was comparable to Tauarsi on offense, and was a significantly better defender (with the big caveat that this level was only a couple years).



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