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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 13358



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PostPosted: 03/13/20 6:46 pm    ::: Distorted records Reply Reply with quote

Cancelling the tournament prior even to selection day creates all sorts of havoc with a variety of long-term records.

As just an example, I assume they will just ignore this year in listing records for most consecutive tournament appearances for schools and coaches since otherwise every school's and coach's streak would end and reset to zero.

But that doesn't really work either. What do you do with a school like ND that stood at 24 straight ( 4th longest current streak I think) but realistically that streak was going end this year. Let's assume they revert to being a regular participant again next year. Technically they'd be in no different position than nearly everyone else. Nobody was in the tournament this year (except those who won tournaments before cancellation) and there is no official in/out status for anyone else. It's silly and unfair but I guess you'd continue their streak just like you would Stanford's. I'm sure there are other streaks similarly affected.

I understand how trivial this is under the circumstances, but that's what lots of unexpected idle time will do. It just struck me as odd.


calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 03/13/20 8:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I see no issue. Clearly if there is no tournament there is no break in consecutive tournament streaks. And that doesn't matter whether you were going to be a number 1 seed or you were going to miss the tournament.


osubeavers



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 103
Location: West Hills, Portland, OR


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PostPosted: 03/14/20 4:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
I see no issue. Clearly if there is no tournament there is no break in consecutive tournament streaks. And that doesn't matter whether you were going to be a number 1 seed or you were going to miss the tournament.
Yup. You can’t miss the tournament when there is no tournament.



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12719
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 03/14/20 4:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

osubeavers wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
I see no issue. Clearly if there is no tournament there is no break in consecutive tournament streaks. And that doesn't matter whether you were going to be a number 1 seed or you were going to miss the tournament.
Yup. You can’t miss the tournament when there is no tournament.


i miss it. Very Happy



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GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 03/14/20 7:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Good one.
Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 03/14/20 9:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
osubeavers wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
I see no issue. Clearly if there is no tournament there is no break in consecutive tournament streaks. And that doesn't matter whether you were going to be a number 1 seed or you were going to miss the tournament.
Yup. You can’t miss the tournament when there is no tournament.


i miss it. Very Happy


I got a drink at McDonald's today and it was in a McDonald's All-American games cup. Made me sad. Crying or Very sad

Also made me wonder how much merchandise has already been printed for the games that won't be used. T shirts, sweatshirts, the seat cushions, pins, etc. Fortunately (?) the draw hadn't happened, so shirts with the brackets and teams weren't printed yet. Though, that just means that those people lost out on income along with a lot of other people.



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Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 03/14/20 10:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting. The NCAA had 400 million in the bank for a scenario like this. Then they spent the money.

Quote:
The NCAA depends on the basketball tournament for nearly all of its annual revenue, more than half of which gets distributed directly to Division I schools and conferences. The money comes mostly from a multi-billion-dollar media and marketing contract with CBS and Turner, but it also comes from ticket and merchandise sales.


Quote:
“The NCAA will be fine,” said Barbara Osborne, a sports administration professor at the University of North Carolina. “It is the membership. It will have future tournaments. It has sponsorships. But all schools will be having huge belt tightening because of this. This is going to affect higher education as a whole and school budgets overall. That’s going to impact the institutional subsidy for athletic programs. …

“Athletic department budgets will be smaller because conference payouts will be smaller. A lot of mid-majors desperately rely on these dollars (from the NCAA, the conferences and the institutions). It’s not a pretty picture.”


Quote:
"In recent years, Division I has made a number of rule changes in order to provide additional support for college athletes," the association said in a statement announcing the move. "However, those new rules also increased the financial load on many Division I programs. With the new scholarship rules taking effect this academic year, the Board of Governors which has the authority to manage assets held in reserve – decided the support was needed at this time."


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2020/03/14/march-madness-ncaa-built-tournament-safety-net-then-spent/5038279002/



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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 03/16/20 10:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Interesting. The NCAA had 400 million in the bank for a scenario like this. Then they spent the money.



Well, the NCAA didn't exactly "spend" it. About half, the member schools voted to distribute to themselves; the rest they used to pay the lawsuit settlement so they didn't have pay it out of their own pockets.

So now they they'll have to pay the piper and will come up short since they already took and spent their shares.

I don't feel sorry for them. The schools got the money one way or the other. The Association didn't spend it.


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 03/26/20 7:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Interesting. The NCAA had 400 million in the bank for a scenario like this. Then they spent the money.

Quote:
The NCAA depends on the basketball tournament for nearly all of its annual revenue, more than half of which gets distributed directly to Division I schools and conferences. The money comes mostly from a multi-billion-dollar media and marketing contract with CBS and Turner, but it also comes from ticket and merchandise sales.


Quote:
“The NCAA will be fine,” said Barbara Osborne, a sports administration professor at the University of North Carolina. “It is the membership. It will have future tournaments. It has sponsorships. But all schools will be having huge belt tightening because of this. This is going to affect higher education as a whole and school budgets overall. That’s going to impact the institutional subsidy for athletic programs. …

“Athletic department budgets will be smaller because conference payouts will be smaller. A lot of mid-majors desperately rely on these dollars (from the NCAA, the conferences and the institutions). It’s not a pretty picture.”


Quote:
"In recent years, Division I has made a number of rule changes in order to provide additional support for college athletes," the association said in a statement announcing the move. "However, those new rules also increased the financial load on many Division I programs. With the new scholarship rules taking effect this academic year, the Board of Governors which has the authority to manage assets held in reserve – decided the support was needed at this time."


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2020/03/14/march-madness-ncaa-built-tournament-safety-net-then-spent/5038279002/


Much less going to schools this year.

Quote:
The NCAA announced Thursday it will distribute $225 million to its Division I member schools in June, nearly two-thirds less than the $600 million scheduled to be handed out in installments from April to June.


https://www.wane.com/news/indiana/pandemic-fallout-ncaa-slashes-distribution-by-375-million/



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ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 1653
Location: New York


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PostPosted: 03/28/20 6:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
osubeavers wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
I see no issue. Clearly if there is no tournament there is no break in consecutive tournament streaks. And that doesn't matter whether you were going to be a number 1 seed or you were going to miss the tournament.
Yup. You can’t miss the tournament when there is no tournament.


i miss it. Very Happy


I got a drink at McDonald's today and it was in a McDonald's All-American games cup. Made me sad. Crying or Very sad

Also made me wonder how much merchandise has already been printed for the games that won't be used. T shirts, sweatshirts, the seat cushions, pins, etc. Fortunately (?) the draw hadn't happened, so shirts with the brackets and teams weren't printed yet. Though, that just means that those people lost out on income along with a lot of other people.


What about the courts? Those are the craziest things to me. Like, you can donate shirts, hats, and apparel somewhere to be used.

But those floors.....can those be stripped and re-used next year? Like-I know the 2015 women's final four floor is used for the tournament in the US Virgin Islands(I think). And the 2012 floor is used for the Mountain West tournament(I think).


Conway Gamecock



Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 948
Location: Here


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PostPosted: 03/30/20 3:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
osubeavers wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
I see no issue. Clearly if there is no tournament there is no break in consecutive tournament streaks. And that doesn't matter whether you were going to be a number 1 seed or you were going to miss the tournament.
Yup. You can’t miss the tournament when there is no tournament.


i miss it. Very Happy


I got a drink at McDonald's today and it was in a McDonald's All-American games cup. Made me sad. Crying or Very sad

Also made me wonder how much merchandise has already been printed for the games that won't be used. T shirts, sweatshirts, the seat cushions, pins, etc. Fortunately (?) the draw hadn't happened, so shirts with the brackets and teams weren't printed yet. Though, that just means that those people lost out on income along with a lot of other people.


What about the courts? Those are the craziest things to me. Like, you can donate shirts, hats, and apparel somewhere to be used.

But those floors.....can those be stripped and re-used next year? Like-I know the 2015 women's final four floor is used for the tournament in the US Virgin Islands(I think). And the 2012 floor is used for the Mountain West tournament(I think).


Yes.....university courts are used to host the 1st 2 rounds of the NCAAT and the NIT for both MBB and WBB, and the decals used can be applied and then removed. Same with the Regional and FF floors.....


ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 1653
Location: New York


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PostPosted: 03/30/20 7:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Conway Gamecock wrote:
ucbart wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
osubeavers wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
I see no issue. Clearly if there is no tournament there is no break in consecutive tournament streaks. And that doesn't matter whether you were going to be a number 1 seed or you were going to miss the tournament.
Yup. You can’t miss the tournament when there is no tournament.


i miss it. Very Happy


I got a drink at McDonald's today and it was in a McDonald's All-American games cup. Made me sad. Crying or Very sad

Also made me wonder how much merchandise has already been printed for the games that won't be used. T shirts, sweatshirts, the seat cushions, pins, etc. Fortunately (?) the draw hadn't happened, so shirts with the brackets and teams weren't printed yet. Though, that just means that those people lost out on income along with a lot of other people.


What about the courts? Those are the craziest things to me. Like, you can donate shirts, hats, and apparel somewhere to be used.

But those floors.....can those be stripped and re-used next year? Like-I know the 2015 women's final four floor is used for the tournament in the US Virgin Islands(I think). And the 2012 floor is used for the Mountain West tournament(I think).


Yes.....university courts are used to host the 1st 2 rounds of the NCAAT and the NIT for both MBB and WBB, and the decals used can be applied and then removed. Same with the Regional and FF floors.....


I do not think FF floors can be used over again. Universities are given to opportunity to buy them. Look on YouTube. Those courts don't seem like they are decals.


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 6003



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PostPosted: 03/30/20 8:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The floors can be re-used. Since they are wooden they are able to be sanded down and re-painted. A guy that I know that works for one of the small colleges in northeast Indiana told me that his school bought court from Indy one year when the winning school didn't want it (UConn 2016 I'm guessing).

I remember reading an article about the floors a few years ago. I'll see if I can find it.



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Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 6003



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PostPosted: 03/30/20 10:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here's the story about the courts. It would be interesting to know what did happen to this year's floors. Put them up for bid? Save them for next year? Something else?

Quote:
The Final Four courts you’ll see this week are two of 12 new courts that Connor Sports will build, paint, ship, and assemble on-site for the NCAA tournament. They’ve had the partnership with the NCAA for 12 years, and currently make four regional final courts for each tournament in addition to the Final Four courts, as well as two courts for the fan experiences called bracket town.

Quote:
The new first and second round courts for the men’s tournament simply get stored and re-used each year with a decal to denote the city. The first and second rounds of the women’s tournament are played at on-campus sites and don’t get an NCAA makeover.

Quote:
Production on the courts begins in October or November, with the actual building of the courts. The wood comes from Michigan’s Upper Peninsula and by January it’s time to paint and finish the courts for March delivery.


https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/3/31/15129364/final-four-court-design-connor-sports-gary-gray



_________________
"Our democracy is designed to speak truth to power." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

"If this guy can be Senator, you can do anything." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
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