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Does race matter in a disaster?
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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 9:19 am    ::: Does race matter in a disaster? Reply Reply with quote

Black folks "loot"...

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530

White folks "find"...

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1



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OldMan



Joined: 24 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 9:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That is some kind of f'd up. Obviously there could be more to the stories than is given, but on the surface.. Mad


womens_hoops



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 11:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

another article, not to do with looting, but with how the press covers a disaster when a large percentage of the victims are poor and black.

http://www.slate.com/id/2124688/nav/tap2/


bluewolfvii



Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 5007
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 11:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Black folks "loot"...

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530

White folks "find"...

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1


That is appalling. Residents left behind are without food and water. They are trying to survive, left to fend for themselves while Bush stayed at his ranch and fiddled while the South drowned.

National Guard troops are coming in with a zero tolerance directive on 'looting' from Bush. Are the national guard coming in to shoot Americans who are struggling for their lives?

Someone is firing on the helicopters coming to save these people, I understand. But who the hell is that? The people in these pictures? This entire thing is blowing my mind.


bluewolfvii



Joined: 08 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's not only abandoned residents who have taken to looting.

Quote:
Greg Meffert, Nagin's chief technology officer, said he has had to engage in some legal looting of sorts to get the mayor's command center at the Hyatt Regency across from City Hall up and running.

"We raided an Office Depot that was already looted," he said.


'Pleading For Help'
http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/090105/new_help001.shtml


bluewolfvii



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PostPosted: 09/01/05 12:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Baton Rouge Police Chief Jeff LeDuff said his officers received a false report that a gas station about a block from the River Center was being looted.

"It wasn't looting. We had a problem with some of the displaced people going into businesses and asking for food," LeDuff said.

http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/090105/new_security001.shtml


dtsnms



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 12:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

womens_hoops wrote:
another article, not to do with looting, but with how the press covers a disaster when a large percentage of the victims are poor and black.

http://www.slate.com/id/2124688/nav/tap2/


This guy to me is off base; the time right now is not to worry about why these people were there, whatever the reasons race or other, but to try to get everyone to safety.

To me the fucked up thing is even getting into race issues with all this human suffering going on.


bluewolfvii



Joined: 08 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 12:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

DTS you are correct, of course.

The article is spot on, however. I spent time in the South as a research worker in petrochemicals. From the chain gangs that toil in cotton fields outside Baton Rouge to the rick shack, one room shanties alongside the tracks in Vidalia, to the cross-river magnificent antelbellum homes in Natchez that are open for fee to tourists in the summer..

I saw these things with my eyes. Not to say these things do not exist in places in the North but along the Mississippi/ Louisiana divide, the division along class and race lines is stark and shocking..

Quote:
by ignoring race and class, they boot the journalistic opportunity to bring attention to the disenfranchisement of a whole definable segment of the population. What I wouldn't pay to hear a Fox anchor ask, "Say, Bob, why are these African-Americans so poor to begin with?"


sambista



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 12:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

thank you, pilight.



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bluewolfvii



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PostPosted: 09/01/05 12:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
NATCHEZ - "They are us."

That was United Way Director Kathy Stephens' simple assessment of the Katrina refugees now staying in shelters, hotels, churches and private homes across the Miss-Lou. And now - for how long, no one really knows - those refugees are Natchez residents

..Because Natchez is one of the few places below Jackson with food, power and water, more and more evacuees are finding their way here. And as some people try to return to Louisiana or the coast and are turned back, they may wind up here, Stephens said.

"Bless their hearts, they still don't realize they can't get anywhere," Stephens said.


http://www.natchezdemocrat.com/articles/2005/09/01/news/news91.txt


womens_hoops



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 1:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dtsnms wrote:
This guy to me is off base


i don't know whether he's off base -- i'm not really sure how race should be addressed here, if at all.

but there is something weird about it in the TV footage. it's just so visible that so many of the victims are poor and black. i don't recall ever being struck by that in past tragedies.

i'm not really sure whether it's the job of reporters to address it... but there is something slightly strange about never addressing it.


dtsnms



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 1:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

womens_hoops wrote:
dtsnms wrote:
This guy to me is off base


i don't know whether he's off base -- i'm not really sure how race should be addressed here, if at all.

but there is something weird about it in the TV footage. it's just so visible that so many of the victims are poor and black. i don't recall ever being struck by that in past tragedies.

i'm not really sure whether it's the job of reporters to address it... but there is something slightly strange about never addressing it.


Off base perhaps was the wrong word choice; you basically said what I meant. I don't feel it necessarily should be addressed at this point in time. Later, yes. However right now, black white brown green, get everybody the hell to safety.


womens_hoops



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 2:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

in related and frightening news, some famous bloggers are calling on people to "shoot looters on sight."

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_08_28-2005_09_03.shtml#1125597101

http://instapundit.com/archives/025281.php

good lord...


Admiral_Needa



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 2:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dtsnms wrote:
This guy to me is off base; the time right now is not to worry about why these people were there, whatever the reasons race or other, but to try to get everyone to safety.

To me the fucked up thing is even getting into race issues with all this human suffering going on.



I feel the same way, but it is worth noting, and I'm glad Pilight pointed it out.. I mean, how is taking bread without paying 'Finding' and taking a 12-pack of Diet Pepsi 'Looting' Question

Some people are even trying to get into political issues with this too, basically blaming it all on one political party, which is also pretty 'off-base'. Idea



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thesixthwoman



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 2:11 pm    ::: Re: Does race matter in a disaster? Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Black folks "loot"...

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530

White folks "find"...

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1


this 'distinction' is terrifying. who the FUCK edits these photo captions at yahoo?? someone needs to kick the shit outta that person...

for the record, i saw the NY Times "ethicist" Randy Cohen on local TV last night saying that 'stealing' groceries when you're hungry and there's no food is NOT looting. it's survival. (not to mention that many things will spoil anyway...)


thesixthwoman



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 3:34 pm    ::: Re: Does race matter in a disaster? Reply Reply with quote

[quote="thesixthwoman"]
pilight wrote:
Black folks "loot"...

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530

White folks "find"...

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1



Just found this at the bottom of the photo caption:

http://news.yahoo.com/page/photostatement


thesixthwoman



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 4:06 pm    ::: Re: Does race matter in a disaster? Reply Reply with quote

salon.com is already discussing the yahoo photos...

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/09/01/photo_controversy/index.html


womens_hoops



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 2831



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PostPosted: 09/01/05 4:24 pm    ::: Re: Does race matter in a disaster? Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Black folks "loot"...

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530

White folks "find"...

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1


turns out that there may be an innocuous explanation for this thing. The "finding" photo is from AFP, and the caption translated from French. Apparently nothing on the AFP's site ever translates as "looting", either because they just don't use the word, or because there's a translation glitch.


sambista



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PostPosted: 09/01/05 4:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

well, she said with raised eyebrow, one might say the french editor was unencumbered by this particular subconscious, cultural trapping.



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thesixthwoman



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PostPosted: 09/01/05 4:49 pm    ::: Re: Does race matter in a disaster? Reply Reply with quote

womens_hoops wrote:

turns out that there may be an innocuous explanation for this thing. The "finding" photo is from AFP, and the caption translated from French. Apparently nothing on the AFP's site ever translates as "looting", either because they just don't use the word, or because there's a translation glitch.


not sure what your source is for that - does the "F" in "AFP" stand for "french or France?" either way, here's salon's take (from the link i posted above):

Regarding the AFP/Getty "finding" photo by Graythen, Getty spokeswoman Bridget Russel said, "This is obviously a big tragedy down there, so we're being careful with how we credit these photos." Russel said that Graythen had discussed the image in question with his editor and that if Graythen didn't witness the two people in the image in the act of looting, then he couldn't say they were looting.

But if he didn't witness an act of looting, how did Graythen determine where the items came from, or if they were "found"? "I wish I could tell you," Russel said. "I haven't been able to talk to Chris."

"The only thing I can tell you is they don't assume one way or another," she added.


womens_hoops



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 5:03 pm    ::: Re: Does race matter in a disaster? Reply Reply with quote

thesixthwoman wrote:
not sure what your source is for that - does the "F" in "AFP" stand for "french or France?" either way, here's salon's take (from the link i posted above):


interesting. I don't have a good source -- just repeating a possible explanation that I heard on another site. I don't have a Salon subscription, so I can't read that article.

AFP is Agence France-Presse.

http://www.afp.com/english/home/


thesixthwoman



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 5:20 pm    ::: Re: Does race matter in a disaster? Reply Reply with quote

womens_hoops wrote:
thesixthwoman wrote:
not sure what your source is for that - does the "F" in "AFP" stand for "french or France?" either way, here's salon's take (from the link i posted above):


interesting. I don't have a good source -- just repeating a possible explanation that I heard on another site. I don't have a Salon subscription, so I can't read that article.

AFP is Agence France-Presse.

http://www.afp.com/english/home/


you shouldn't need a salon subscription to read that article - it didn't ask me to sign in or anything. did you try? either way, there is always this: http://www.bugmenot.com/ where you can get sign in info for sites that require registration. not sure about subscriptions...i can post the whole article as well.


womens_hoops



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 5:28 pm    ::: Re: Does race matter in a disaster? Reply Reply with quote

thesixthwoman wrote:
you shouldn't need a salon subscription to read that article - it didn't ask me to sign in or anything. did you try? either way, there is always this: http://www.bugmenot.com/ where you can get sign in info for sites that require registration. not sure about subscriptions...i can post the whole article as well.


i used the free day pass to get it after all.

I think you're right -- I think my translation thing was simply wrong. Apparently this has been kicking around the blogs for the last day (starting with Wonkette and Kos), with a variety of permutations and misinformation.

thanks much for the Salon link. the fog is clearing...


thesixthwoman



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 6296
Location: NYC


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PostPosted: 09/01/05 5:46 pm    ::: Re: Does race matter in a disaster? Reply Reply with quote

womens_hoops wrote:
thesixthwoman wrote:
you shouldn't need a salon subscription to read that article - it didn't ask me to sign in or anything. did you try? either way, there is always this: http://www.bugmenot.com/ where you can get sign in info for sites that require registration. not sure about subscriptions...i can post the whole article as well.


i used the free day pass to get it after all.

I think you're right -- I think my translation thing was simply wrong. Apparently this has been kicking around the blogs for the last day (starting with Wonkette and Kos), with a variety of permutations and misinformation.

thanks much for the Salon link. the fog is clearing...


no prob. it was a good theory. do you ever read 'eschaton?' i haven't been there in a while, but during the 2004 election season (and subsequent non-recount in Ohio) i spent a lot of time there.


womens_hoops



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 09/01/05 7:01 pm    ::: Re: Does race matter in a disaster? Reply Reply with quote

thesixthwoman wrote:
do you ever read 'eschaton?'


yes, but only rarely. Atrios has gotten a little too Michael Mooreish for my taste.


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