RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Coronavirus Pandemic
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 84, 85, 86  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » Area 51
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Luuuc
#NATC


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 20639



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/02/20 9:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Our analysis of CDC data shows that 345,000 more people than normal have died in the U.S. from March 15 - Nov. 14. That figure, known as excess deaths, is 41% higher than the official coronavirus fatality count.

See more of our analysis for every state.

https://twitter.com/nytgraphics/status/1334268016704573440
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/05/us/coronavirus-death-toll-us.html



_________________
Is there gas in the car?
Yes there's gas in the car.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8306



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/03/20 5:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
tfan wrote:
Quote:
And out of mild curiosity....who do YOU view as more informed, and better aware of The Big Picture re Covid (other than yourself, obviously)?? Who do YOU trust more than Fauci?


I didn't hear anyone in the USA who I would say was advocating proper action - doing things from the start.


Precisely. You/me/everyonelse can critique with the benefit of great hindsight. However: NOBODY had that kind of foresight at that time. Remember? What NOW appears to be prescient information was parsed/doubted/overthought from the start.


I will acknowledge that your opinion is the almost, if not completely universal opinion. But infectious disease transmission foresight is what I feel we pay guys like Fauci to have. China in late January locked down a province of 55 million people and built a new hospital in two weeks to treat all the COVID-19 patients they couldn’t handle otherwise. That showed the world - which was starting to identify their own COVID-19 cases at that time - what was coming, although I don’t think the USA news media gave it proper coverage. But the world didn’t want to believe what they were seeing. I will agree that the Fauci counterparts in Europe and the WHO also failed to recommend the right quick decisive action and were making some unrealistic hope for the best. But I just see that as more people who failed in their primary task, not an indication that something was very hard to see coming.




Last edited by tfan on 12/03/20 6:24 am; edited 1 time in total
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8306



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/03/20 6:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
tfan wrote:
Wow, I didn't realize Europe was getting hit so much more now than in the spring. And after a significant period of time with very low levels.

The vaccines can't come soon enough. I heard someone connected to the vaccine effort in the USA say that they thought they will have vaccinated enough people for herd immunity by June/July. But the one problem with that was that the figure he gave for herd immunity (something like 65 to 75%) was more than the figure the person interviewing gave for the percentage of people who said they were going to take the vaccine. It appeared that the vaccine person felt or hoped that people who had the coronavirus already would have at least some immunity even without a vaccine.


Right now, we have increasing case reports of infected people who already had COVID once in the spring, confirmed by PCR both times, and we've also documented the fall of antibody levels to negligible or undetectable levels several months after an active infection. We have NO information about long-term, i.e. one year, efficacy of any of these vaccines under consideration. Who knows if they produce an immune response that's more persistent than what the virus itself elicited? Without that info, talking about immunizations in June and how many people get the vaccine is just wasted breath.


I did a search for estimates of how long a vaccine would provide protection, and found someone who says they won’t normally certify a vaccine until it is proven to work for a year. And like you say, unknown how long it lasts. Dr William Haseltine, who worked on a HIV vaccine, has been very pessimistic about a vaccine. I think mostly because we don’t build up any long term immunity to the cold version of the coronavirus.

Quote:
It’s a reasonable bet, but still a gamble that protection for two or three months is similar to six months or a year,” said Dr. Paul Offit, a member of the Food and Drug Administration panel that is likely to review the vaccine for approval in December. Normally, vaccines aren’t licensed until they show they can protect for a year or two.


Luuuc
#NATC


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 20639



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/03/20 8:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If you resided in North Dakota this year you have a greater than 1 in 800 chance of now being dead from Covid.
That's pretty bad odds. Shocked



_________________
Is there gas in the car?
Yes there's gas in the car.
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 13240
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/03/20 3:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
China in late January locked down a province of 55 million people and built a new hospital in two weeks to treat all the COVID-19 patients they couldn’t handle otherwise.


This brings up another point: We must believe China was NOT forthcoming with all pertinent data, AND....without a doubt....their numbers are NOT as low as stated. They are an authoritarian state with a tight grip on statistics made public. Real stats will probably never be known.

Luuuc wrote:
If you resided in North Dakota this year you have a greater than 1 in 800 chance of now being dead from Covid.
That's pretty bad odds. Shocked


I've been there. I have friends who live in Divide county (northwest corner of the state), where the largest town has about 1,200 people. Their hospital is small....100 beds, maybe? They are now inundated. Their population in that region has many, many folks in their 90s. Their health care infrastructure is struggling just about as hard as NYC's was. NOT good.



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"


Last edited by Howee on 12/03/20 5:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 2263



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/03/20 3:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Other hospitals in the Midwest are at "NYC in April" situations right now...short of ICU beds and borrowing ventilators with refrigerated trucks serving as morgues.

We hit 14M cases today, only 5 days since we hit 13M. Given the general reluctance to practice social distancing (see AZ soccer tournament and LI party, above) and the upcoming holidays, I doubt the acceleration in new cases will reverse itself until February. I hope I'm proved wrong, because we'll have at least another 15-20M new cases by then.

Certification considerations aside, a COVID vaccine has to work for at least a year, at which time it can hopefully be re-dosed with annual flu shots. Trying to give boosters more frequently is just not workable.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8306



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/04/20 2:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This article talks about politicians being unable to do anything about the virus spreading in the home. Thought that meant family members but they are talking about people congregating in homes outside of government regulation. Although the governor of Oregon was asking citizens to notify the local government if their neighbors had large Thanksgiving gatherings. So apparently they could set regulations on in-home gatherings. But much harder to enforce than shutting down bars or restaurants.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/with-virus-spreading-in-homes-u-s-governors-run-out-of-weapons/ar-BB1bBRRs

California has decided to tie restrictions to hospital crowding. If there starts to be a shortage of beds then restrictions go into effect in that area.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 2263



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/04/20 3:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
This article talks about politicians being unable to do anything about the virus spreading in the home. Thought that meant family members but they are talking about people congregating in homes outside of government regulation. Although the governor of Oregon was asking citizens to notify the local government if their neighbors had large Thanksgiving gatherings. So apparently they could set regulations on in-home gatherings. But much harder to enforce than shutting down bars or restaurants.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/with-virus-spreading-in-homes-u-s-governors-run-out-of-weapons/ar-BB1bBRRs

California has decided to tie restrictions to hospital crowding. If there starts to be a shortage of beds then restrictions go into effect in that area.


People don't get it. Two of my friends are "very worried about getting COVID, trying to stay safe, wearing masks, practicing social distancing..."yadda, yadda. He works in a school and she works in a long-term care facility.

They went to his parents for Thanksgiving, along with 2 of his siblings, their spouses and seven of their children, 2 of whom brought dates. That's ~20 people from 7 households all day in a small house with no masks. And his parents are in their 80's and have multiple serious health problems.

Multiply that by the millions of households that did the same thing last week and will do it again later this month. I concur there's no way to shut that down. People aren't going to change their behavior until they see someone in their family who is seriously ill, and maybe not then if they live in the middle swath of the country.


PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 15499
Location: Chicago


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/05/20 11:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
tfan wrote:
This article talks about politicians being unable to do anything about the virus spreading in the home. Thought that meant family members but they are talking about people congregating in homes outside of government regulation. Although the governor of Oregon was asking citizens to notify the local government if their neighbors had large Thanksgiving gatherings. So apparently they could set regulations on in-home gatherings. But much harder to enforce than shutting down bars or restaurants.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/with-virus-spreading-in-homes-u-s-governors-run-out-of-weapons/ar-BB1bBRRs

California has decided to tie restrictions to hospital crowding. If there starts to be a shortage of beds then restrictions go into effect in that area.


People don't get it. Two of my friends are "very worried about getting COVID, trying to stay safe, wearing masks, practicing social distancing..."yadda, yadda. He works in a school and she works in a long-term care facility.

They went to his parents for Thanksgiving, along with 2 of his siblings, their spouses and seven of their children, 2 of whom brought dates. That's ~20 people from 7 households all day in a small house with no masks. And his parents are in their 80's and have multiple serious health problems.

Multiply that by the millions of households that did the same thing last week and will do it again later this month. I concur there's no way to shut that down. People aren't going to change their behavior until they see someone in their family who is seriously ill, and maybe not then if they live in the middle swath of the country.


Not even then. A woman I went to high school with refuses to wear a mask even though her husband was an early death from COVID.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 2263



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/05/20 12:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As hospitals cope with a COVID-19 surge, cyber threats like one at UVM Medical Center loom

Quote:
By late morning on Oct. 28, staff at the University of Vermont Medical Center noticed the hospital’s phone system wasn’t working.

Then the internet went down, and the Burlington-based center’s technical infrastructure with it. Employees lost access to databases, digital health records, scheduling systems and other online tools they rely on for patient care...

The Vermont hospital had fallen prey to a cyberattack, becoming one of the most recent and visible examples of a wave of digital assaults taking U.S. health care providers hostage as COVID-19 cases surge nationwide.

The same day as UVM’s attack, the FBI and two federal agencies warned cybercriminals were ramping up efforts to steal data and disrupt services across the health care sector.

By targeting providers with attacks that scramble and lock up data until victims pay a ransom, hackers can demand thousands or millions of dollars and wreak havoc until they’re paid.

https://www.vnews.com/As-hospitals-cope-with-a-COVID-19-surge-cyber-threats-loom-37628685

I would have no problem with immediate execution for cybercriminals holding hospitals' data for ransom during a pandemic.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8306



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/07/20 1:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know if true, but someone tweeted that other countries are making large payments to companies hit by the coronavirus to pay their wages as you would expect:

Japan: 100% for small business and 80% for large companies
Netherlands: Up to 90%
Norway: Up to 90%
Germany: Up to 87%
France: Up to 84%
Italy: 80%
United Kingdom: Up to 80%
Canada: Up to 75%

While the United States is 0%. A frustrated restaurant guy on the news in Michigan had it right - pay him and everybody else the money lost to shut down for 2 months to get it under control (really should be until we have the vaccine widely distributed and it is shown to work). But instead the state governments are telling small businesses to shut down while providing them nothing in compensation.

And meanwhile Nancy "We feed them!" Pelosi is now ready to accept a much smaller relief package since it won't help Trump. And if a reporter brings that up, watch out.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8306



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/07/20 4:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

New Mexico shut down nearly everything to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed by covid. It wasn't enough.


The article doesn't back up the headline as the latest restrictions didn't go into place until mid November. But New Mexico shows how you can't "open up" without it going up again, and somehow even worse than the previous up cycle.



Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 13240
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/07/20 10:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
But instead the state governments are telling small businesses to shut down while providing them nothing in compensation.

So....Socialism IS a necessity here and now. Right?



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8309
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/07/20 1:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:


And meanwhile Nancy "We feed them!" Pelosi is now ready to accept a much smaller relief package since it won't help Trump. And if a reporter brings that up, watch out.


Or....

And I'm just spitballing here...

It's almost like her expectations have changed, and she no longer thinks it likely they will have full control of government.

Before the election she was negotiating from a position of power since all signs were suggesting a Democratic sweep. Now, as that outcome is seen as the longshot, she has to be more willing to compromise.

But, yeah, it's just aaaaallllll a big ol' grand conspiracy against our soon-to-be ex-asshat-in-chief, Dear Leader Trump.



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 13240
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/07/20 9:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
tfan wrote:


And meanwhile Nancy "We feed them!" Pelosi is now ready to accept a much smaller relief package since it won't help Trump. And if a reporter brings that up, watch out.


Or....

And I'm just spitballing here...

It's almost like her expectations have changed, and she no longer thinks it likely they will have full control of government.

Before the election she was negotiating from a position of power since all signs were suggesting a Democratic sweep. Now, as that outcome is seen as the longshot, she has to be more willing to compromise.

But, yeah, it's just aaaaallllll a big ol' grand conspiracy against our soon-to-be ex-asshat-in-chief, Dear Leader Trump.


I dunno....pbs reporting tonight hinted that Nancy's position has softened with the idea that after inauguration, Congress will get serious about an even larger bill. But pigs'll be flyin', too. Razz



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8306



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/08/20 7:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
tfan wrote:
But instead the state governments are telling small businesses to shut down while providing them nothing in compensation.


So....Socialism IS a necessity here and now. Right?


What did they call government programs in the days of FDR and LBJ? Whatever term(s) they used back then would be preferable to "socialism" in my book. Socialism has a specific definition with regard to ownership of "the means of production".


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8306



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/08/20 8:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
tfan wrote:


And meanwhile Nancy "We feed them!" Pelosi is now ready to accept a much smaller relief package since it won't help Trump. And if a reporter brings that up, watch out.


Or....

And I'm just spitballing here...

It's almost like her expectations have changed, and she no longer thinks it likely they will have full control of government.

Before the election she was negotiating from a position of power since all signs were suggesting a Democratic sweep. Now, as that outcome is seen as the longshot, she has to be more willing to compromise.


Optimistic Democrats had the option to pass two aid packages. One before the election and one when they took control in February 2021. Being willing to wait until past November 2nd to give some aid - and for a reason other than Trump's re-election - gives the impression they thought there was no urgency. She may have only recently held this position, but Pelosi says in this December 2nd at 9:12AM tweet that people were struggling before the early November election:

Quote:
Families struggling for months already to keep a roof over their head and to put food on the table can't afford to wait. They need urgent help right now.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 13240
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/08/20 10:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Howee wrote:
tfan wrote:
But instead the state governments are telling small businesses to shut down while providing them nothing in compensation.


So....Socialism IS a necessity here and now. Right?


What did they call government programs in the days of FDR and LBJ? Whatever term(s) they used back then would be preferable to "socialism" in my book. Socialism has a specific definition with regard to ownership of "the means of production".

(so....is it better if 'ownership' lies with The People, or The Government??)

What they *called it* -- tomato, tomahto -- is irrelevant to its basic principles. Socialism comes in many flavors and its implementation takes many forms. What Venezuela or Cuba call socialism is not what Bernie or AOC promote, democratic socialism.
Quote:
Socialism is a political, social and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterized by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management of enterprises. It includes the political theories and movements associated with such systems. Social ownership can be public, collective, cooperative, or of equity. While no single definition encapsulates many types of socialism, social ownership is the one common element. Socialists disagree about the degree to which social control or regulation of the economy is necessary; how far society should intervene and whether government, particularly existing government, is the correct vehicle for change.


Yes, "socialism" is NOT a four-letter word. Razz



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61821
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/08/20 10:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Howee wrote:
tfan wrote:
But instead the state governments are telling small businesses to shut down while providing them nothing in compensation.


So....Socialism IS a necessity here and now. Right?


What did they call government programs in the days of FDR and LBJ? Whatever term(s) they used back then would be preferable to "socialism" in my book. Socialism has a specific definition with regard to ownership of "the means of production".


His opponents called it "socialism" or "fascism" or "communism" or whatever -ism they thought would stick. Arguing labels is much easier than finding actual fault with a given proposal.



_________________
The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 13240
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/08/20 2:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
His opponents called it "socialism" or "fascism" or "communism" or whatever -ism they thought would stick. Arguing labels is much easier than finding actual fault with a given proposal.


The following has been a popular meme, floating all around social media. It is NOT fake, and was indeed a very prescient articulation from nearly 70 years ago.

President Harry's Truman's speech in Syracuse, New York on October 10, 1952:
Quote:
Socialism is a scare word they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years.

Socialism is what they called public power. Socialism is what they called social security.

Socialism is what they called farm price supports.

Socialism is what they called bank deposit insurance.

Socialism is what they called the growth of free and independent labor organizations.

Socialism is their name for almost anything that helps all the people.

When the Republican candidate inscribes the slogan "Down With Socialism" on the banner of his "great crusade," that is really not what he means at all.

What he really means is "Down with Progress--down with Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal," and "down with Harry Truman's fair Deal." That's all he means.



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 55614



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/12/20 12:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xEp-Sdgl9AU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8306



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/12/20 4:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
Howee wrote:
tfan wrote:
But instead the state governments are telling small businesses to shut down while providing them nothing in compensation.


So....Socialism IS a necessity here and now. Right?


What did they call government programs in the days of FDR and LBJ? Whatever term(s) they used back then would be preferable to "socialism" in my book. Socialism has a specific definition with regard to ownership of "the means of production".


His opponents called it "socialism" or "fascism" or "communism" or whatever -ism they thought would stick. Arguing labels is much easier than finding actual fault with a given proposal.


There is a word - populism - that was used to describe policies by Trump and Sanders designed specifically to help people at the bottom or lower half of the economic spectrum. I seem to recall some negativity to populism as a concept from the corporate media and punditry, but it was more from the left with Sanders, and later Trump, being a challenger to their candidate. I would go with that as it more accurately describes things like free or low cost (Medicare is not free) healthcare, free college, getting rid of an illegal workforce and forcing manufacturing to be done in the USA.


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 6288



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/13/20 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

300,000.

In the next couple of days that's how many people will have died due to COVID - 19.

That's a population larger than Pittsburg, PA, Lincoln, NE or St. Louis, MO.

Not quite as large as Irvine, CA, Cincinnati, OH or St. Paul, MN.

That is very difficult for me to think about. Three hundred thousand people - dead.

And people are STILL saying that it is nothing more than the flu*. SMH.....

*CDC estimates that during the 2019-2020 flu season 22,000 people died in the US.

Three weeks later and we on the doorstep of 350,000 dead. 349,246 on CDC website today.



_________________
"The biggest antidote to his poison is the vote.” — Nancy Pelosi

"Our democracy is designed to speak truth to power." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

"If this guy can be Senator, you can do anything." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez


Last edited by Ex-Ref on 01/03/21 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 13240
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/13/20 12:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
....And people are STILL saying that it is nothing more than the flu*. SMH.....


....and don't forget....IT'LL DISAPPEAR WITH THE WARM WEATHER. Just ask the people in India and Brazil 'bout that. Just don't believe Fauci, whatever you do. Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 2263



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/13/20 7:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
300,000.

In the next couple of days that's how many people will have died due to COVID - 19.

That's a population larger than Pittsburg, PA, Lincoln, NE or St. Louis, MO.

Not quite as large as Irvine, CA, Cincinnati, OH or St. Paul, MN.

That is very difficult for me to think about. Three hundred thousand people - dead.

And people are STILL saying that it is nothing more than the flu*. SMH.....

*CDC estimates that during the 2019-2020 flu season 22,000 people died in the US.


COVID surpassed heart disease as our leading killer this year as well.

200,000 new cases per day, and a case-fatality rate of 2%. Do the math.


Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » Area 51 All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 84, 85, 86  Next
Page 85 of 86

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin