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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7372
Location: Durham, NC
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 Posted: 03/26/20 3:51 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| Why won't Chump invoke the DPA?! |
Yeah. Can anybody here explain the pros and/or cons of that move  |
Sure. Trump and the heads of FEMA and HHS explain it at almost every daily news conference since the president activated the authorization.
Simply: It's not yet been necessary to order any company to produce any needed supply item because enough of those companies have stepped forward and are voluntarily doing so -- e.g., GM, Ford, GE, 3M, Musk. Trump has also said that the mere possibility of a DPA order so far provides sufficient negotiating leverage for these companies to voluntarily begin retooling and production. |
Why do governors seem to disagree? |
I don't know that any significant number of governors do, or that any do.
Cuomo is the governor with the worst virus problem, the worst supplies problem, and the most in the news. He advocates strongly for his state, as he should, and cries out for supplies in many directions. But much of his rhetoric, though articulate, is polemical. Selfishly, he has demanded the entire U.S. stockpile of 20,000 ventilators, but was reasonably allocated 4,000 this week. He appeals unrealistically for 30,000 more from sources that he can't identify and don't yet exist.
Trump says he and his administration talk to Cuomo and many other governors every day, and they all understand that complicated devices like ventilators can't be produced any faster under a DPA order than the companies can do voluntarily. My best understanding that it will be months rather than weeks for ventilators to roll off the newly retooled assembly lines at Ford, etc.
Meanwhile, the Pence task force has found a partial workaround for lots of additional ventilators. The American anesthesiologist association has found that all their tens of thousands of anesthesiology ventilators can, with minor modifications, be used as ICU ventilators, and anesthesiology staff can be made available to operate them. This is one consequence of the Pence task force's strong recommendation to postpone all elective surgeries. The Pence task force has already gotten the FDA to approve the the modified anesthesiology ventilators for ICU use.
There's a lot more, like the My Pillow guy now making masks, but I can't repeat all the activity that make DPA orders currently unnecessary.
FEMA's job is to monitor all supply chains and notify the president if DPA actually needs to be invoked. As far as I can tell, the president is following and implementing the advice of his administration experts in all his actions so far (except tweeting), and there's no doubt he'll invoke DPA if and when advised. Of course, there are experts outside the administration, often with conflicting opinions about everything, and many of those experts are self-interested if not self-appointed. |
The Governors object (and they DO object) because of the high number of health care workers getting sick and dying from this. The so-called "supply chains" have failed miserably so far. This is why the US is LEADING the world in rate of increase of newly confirmed cases.
So what does are narcissist do when faced with the possibility of becoming the world leader in total # of cases????? Slow down the testing!!!!! Every state is putting out more restrictive guidelines for testing. They say it's due to a LACK OF SUPPLIES. Medical professionals are being ordered to treat people and "assume" they have the virus but only those critically sick will be tested. WE'RE GOING BACKWARDS.
Because all the good people are practicing physical distancing recommendations while everyone else is going about business as usual - and adding coughing in public and laughing at peoples' looks of horror. This is what is happening. All over this country. Stupid Trumpsters are acting like it's the Dem hoax Cheeto said it was (instead of gearing up to protect us). I remind you that there is proof that people getting the intel briefings took it seriously enough to protect themselves and their finances. In public these people followed the occupant of our white house. "No big deal." Over 1,000 dead Americans beg to differ. Health care workers in that number because NO SUPPLIES.
The proof of NO SUPPLIES is in our graveyards. Don't need no bullshit moneymakers saying otherwise.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 03/26/20 4:25 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| The proof of NO SUPPLIES is in our graveyards. Don't need no bullshit moneymakers saying otherwise. |
I keep reading about individual companies that are retooling and reorganizing to make something needed, but it would be good to see a list of them. Unfortunately, even if they're able to produce everything needed, it will take time. Trump may be speaking with a forked tongue, but the problem with outsourcing goes back to Clinton and Bush II.
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crispyten
Joined: 02 Jul 2014
Posts: 36
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: 03/26/20 5:41 pm ::: |
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I don't come on here very often and I haven't had time to read this thread.
You guys have probably already discussed this thoroughly, but I'll throw this in anyway.
Every time Trump refers to the "Chinese flu," I yell "hoax flue" at the television.
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sambista
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 16951
Location: way station of life
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21928
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| Posted: 03/26/20 6:24 pm ::: |
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| sambista wrote: |
every time i glance at the tv, more americans have died.
this morning, it was at 900 (or just under, or just over. i honestly don't remember).
then this evening, it was 1,135.
then, minutes later, it was 1,145.
now, just minutes later, it's 1,156. |
I'm curious about how widespread the mitigation measures have been so far in the USA, because looking at this chart...
... I would hope that Spain & France's measures, which kicked in 10-12 days ago, will start to have a downward effect on their fatality rates in the coming days.
After those 2 countries, the USA is next on the list and showing a similar trajectory. But I have no idea when to expect their decline, other than a couple of states.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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sambista
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 16951
Location: way station of life
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| Posted: 03/26/20 6:42 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
| sambista wrote: |
every time i glance at the tv, more americans have died.
this morning, it was at 900 (or just under, or just over. i honestly don't remember).
then this evening, it was 1,135.
then, minutes later, it was 1,145.
now, just minutes later, it's 1,156. |
I'm curious about how widespread the mitigation measures have been so far in the USA, because looking at this chart...
... I would hope that Spain & France's measures, which kicked in 10-12 days ago, will start to have a downward effect on their fatality rates in the coming days.
After those 2 countries, the USA is next on the list and showing a similar trajectory. But I have no idea when to expect their decline, other than a couple of states. |
though i'm wary of dr. birx, she said something today that was interesting. that the models aren't fitting reality on the ground. (hmmm.) but what i thought was interesting was that she speculated that if the models are wrong, they've got something wrong, such as understanding how the virus is transmitted. and i've wondered about that all along. we may be following a set of guidelines, but we shouldn't do that to the exclusion of unknowns. i've heard too many people say "you can't get it (that way)," when we really don't know. i think there will be revelations about how the virus travels and infects. already, it seems to be mutating at least in its effect on people. they'd seen the damage it does to the lungs, and now they're noticing what it does to the heart.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 03/26/20 6:51 pm ::: |
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Congrats to us. We blew right by both Italy and China and now top the world with 83,507 confirmed cases, and I'm sure we'll hit 100K tomorrow.
| sambista wrote: |
| though i'm wary of dr. birx, she said something today that was interesting. that the models aren't fitting reality on the ground. (hmmm.) but what i thought was interesting was that she speculated that if the models are wrong, they've got something wrong, such as understanding how the virus is transmitted. and i've wondered about that all along. we may be following a set of guidelines, but we shouldn't do that to the exclusion of unknowns. i've heard too many people say "you can't get it (that way)," when we really don't know. i think there will be revelations about how the virus travels and infects. already, it seems to be mutating at least in its effect on people. they'd seen the damage it does to the lungs, and now they're noticing what it does to the heart. |
We have way too many unknowns to reach any conclusions, which is why we need to be testing everyone. Clearly, the initial assurances that healthy "young" people should be fine were unfounded. I haven't seen any solid information that this virus does affect the heart..."heart attacks" is a very generic term and heart problems can occur due to issues caused in the lungs, like low blood oxygen or pulmonary hypertension.
Last edited by FrozenLVFan on 03/26/20 6:58 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21928
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| Posted: 03/26/20 6:52 pm ::: |
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| sambista wrote: |
| though i'm wary of dr. birx, she said something today that was interesting. that the models aren't fitting reality on the ground. (hmmm.) but what i thought was interesting was that she speculated that if the models are wrong, they've got something wrong, such as understanding how the virus is transmitted. and i've wondered about that all along. we may be following a set of guidelines, but we shouldn't do that to the exclusion of unknowns. i've heard too many people say "you can't get it (that way)," when we really don't know. i think there will be revelations about how the virus travels and infects. already, it seems to be mutating at least in its effect on people. they'd seen the damage it does to the lungs, and now they're noticing what it does to the heart. |
This thing is still brand new, so yeah it's totally understandable that they've had to make a lot of assumptions about it up until now, and some of those will in time prove to be off the mark. Everyone's understanding of it is evolving on a daily basis at this point.
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Congrats to us. We blew right by both Italy and China and now top the world with 83,507 cases, and I'm sure we'll hit 100K tomorrow. |
If the virus is already there, then you might as well understand where it is and who has it. So I think it's good news that you're now starting to better learn the reality of the situation. It's just a pity that you guys weren't doing this much testing a month ago when it would have been way more traceable and containable.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 03/26/20 7:07 pm ::: |
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New observation, again without understanding of the mechanism...
| Quote: |
It has been well-publicised that Covid-19 discriminates by age and by underlying health conditions. But it has become increasingly apparent that it also discriminates by sex, with men more likely to test positive and more likely to die from the disease.
The trend was first seen in China, where one analysis found a fatality rate of 2.8% in men compared with 1.7% in women.
Since then, the pattern has been mirrored in France, Germany, Iran, Italy, South Korea and Spain.
In Italy, men have accounted for 71% of deaths and, in Spain, data released on Thursday suggests twice as many men as women have died.
“The honest answer is none of us know what’s causing the difference,” said Prof Sarah Hawkes, director of the UCL Centre for Gender and Global Health.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/men-are-much-more-likely-to-die-from-coronavirus-but-why
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bcdawg04
Joined: 12 Apr 2016
Posts: 565
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: 03/26/20 8:03 pm ::: |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
Based upon the numbers, I wouldn't describe Cuomo as selfish.
To take the Trump Admin at its word requires more faith, imo, than does The Resurrection.
From disbanding the US Pandemic team, to ignoring intelligence reports and delaying any action, to "it's a media hoax", to not buying W.H.O. tests, to "It's 15, soon to be none", to "Leave them on the boat, I don't want the numbers to go up". to it will be gone like a miracle", to "Google will have a website up next week", to "We'll be testing by the millions next week" to "I take no responsibility" to "We have it under control" to "full churches on Easter", and the other hundreds of lies since January and the 10,000+ lies since his inauguration, Trump has earned absolutely no trustworthiness, imo. |
Great post. I also don't think that Gov Cuomo is selfish, even knowing full well that every ventilator that goes to NY does not come to Washington.
Inslee tells Trump U.S. states ‘don’t need a backup. We need a Tom Brady.’
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After Trump told governors that his administration was ready to be the “backup” for states in crisis, Inslee spoke up and said to the president, “We don’t need a backup. We need a Tom Brady,” a reference to the legendary Super Bowl-winning quarterback who has been friendly with president, said the people familiar with the exchange with the president who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe the private conference call.
Inslee, they added, also alluded to the Defense Production Act and said Washington state needs businesses to be more than encouraged to produce items such as masks and ventilators – they need a federal mandate to force them to act. He said the Pentagon needed to make immediate moves to prod defense companies to provide materials. A nursing home in Kirkland, Washington, has been associated with at least 37 deaths from the coronavirus.
Trump was defensive of his efforts, two of the people added, and told Inslee that he and the federal government have done much for Washington and other states in recent days, and ticked off several things his administration has done.
The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Speaking to reporters in Washington after the call, Inslee said of the discussion with Trump: “I am not going to go into great detail, but I will say that I told them that the states should not be competing against each other. We are grateful for their assistance in what they have provided so far.”
The exchange was the latest flash point as tensions rise between Trump and some local officials over his leadership during the coronavirus outbreak, as some states see a spiraling numbers of cases and deaths during the pandemic.
Earlier this month, Trump called Inslee a “snake.”
“I told [Vice President Mike Pence] not to be complimentary of the governor because that governor is a snake,” Trump said of Inslee. “And if you’re nice to him, he will take advantage.”
Inslee was not the only governor to sound the alarm, according to one person briefed on the call, with Louisiana Gov. John Bel Edwards, D, raising a range of issues as New Orleans and his state brace for turmoil with the number of cases and deaths rising. |
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New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, D, the last governor to speak, urged the president to work with governors, saying that as administrators of their states, they are “not political.” Trump appeared to like Cuomo’s comments and thanked him.
Cuomo has been critical of the administration’s response but has also gone out of his way not to antagonize Trump as he seeks to secure as much federal help for his state as possible. |
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 03/26/20 8:39 pm ::: |
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This is a cool graphic showing the movement across the country of a group of people from a single beach after spring break, achieved using mobile phone data.
https://twitter.com/MikaelThalen/status/1243281598037913600
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 03/26/20 8:40 pm ::: |
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Doctors And Nurses Say More People Are Dying Of COVID-19 In The US Than We Know
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/nidhiprakash/coronavirus-update-dead-covid19-doctors-hospitals
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| “We just don't know. The numbers are grossly underreported. I know for a fact that we’ve had three deaths in one county where only one is listed on the website,” the doctor said. |
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| Doctors and nurses working in several hospitals around the country, who spoke with BuzzFeed News on the condition of not being named out of fear of repercussions, said that the official counts of COVID-19 related deaths are not comprehensive for three main reasons: a lack of tests and protective equipment means not everyone who contracted or dies of COVID-19 is diagnosed; overwhelmed hospitals may be running behind on reporting the numbers to state and county authorities; and some hospitals reporting their totals on a daily basis say they’re not being reflected promptly in county and state reports. |
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 03/26/20 8:57 pm ::: |
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| Doctors and nurses have been saying this for at least a week now.
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 11188
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| Posted: 03/26/20 9:03 pm ::: |
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<embed><iframe width="606" height="341" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/v3QKqMh4gjI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>
https://youtu.be/v3QKqMh4gjI
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 11188
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| Posted: 03/26/20 9:18 pm ::: |
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Dermatologists Note a Rise in Hand Eczema Due to Coronavirus Preventive Handwashing
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| "I am seeing more patients coming in recently with rashes on the hands from over-washing," Joshua Zeichner, director of cosmetic and clinical research in dermatology at New York City's Mount Sinai Hospital, tells Allure. As a result of the constant exposure to oil-stripping soap and warm water, eczema and dermatitis rashes are on the rise. "It is important to treat these rashes because, in addition to being itchy, inflamed, or raw, the skin is at risk for developing an infection," he says. |
| Quote: |
| "Those with extremely dry skin from over-washing, under-moisturizing, or genetic predisposition can develop eczema," she says. "Since the protective lipid layer is responsible for keeping moisture in and bacteria and irritants out, dry skin often presents with redness, flaking, itching, and even painful cracks that can leave us susceptible to infections. Any break in the skin can do this." |
https://www.allure.com/story/hand-washing-eczema-rash-coronavirus
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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| Posted: 03/26/20 9:49 pm ::: |
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Trump questions need for 30,000 ventilators in New York
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The president phoned into Sean Hannity's show on Fox News, where he swiped at the governors of Michigan and Washington state and cast doubt on the need for mass ventilator production to meet the demand of certain states.
"I have a feeling that a lot of the numbers that are being said in some areas are just bigger than they’re going to be," Trump said on Sean Hannity's program, "Hannity" on Fox News.
"I don’t believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators. You know, you go into major hospitals, sometimes they’ll have two ventilators. And now all of a sudden they're saying, 'can we order 30,000 ventilators?'"
"Look, it’s a bad situation," he added. "We haven’t seen anything like it. But the end result is we have to get back to work and I think we can start by opening up certain parts of the country."
The president compared purchasing a ventilator to purchasing a car, calling it "very expensive" and "very intricate." |
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/489789-trump-questions-need-for-30000-ventilators-in-new-york
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 03/26/20 9:53 pm ::: |
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| Genero36 wrote: |
Trump questions need for 30,000 ventilators in New York
| Quote: |
The president phoned into Sean Hannity's show on Fox News, where he swiped at the governors of Michigan and Washington state and cast doubt on the need for mass ventilator production to meet the demand of certain states.
"I have a feeling that a lot of the numbers that are being said in some areas are just bigger than they’re going to be," Trump said on Sean Hannity's program, "Hannity" on Fox News.
"I don’t believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators. You know, you go into major hospitals, sometimes they’ll have two ventilators. And now all of a sudden they're saying, 'can we order 30,000 ventilators?'"
"Look, it’s a bad situation," he added. "We haven’t seen anything like it. But the end result is we have to get back to work and I think we can start by opening up certain parts of the country."
The president compared purchasing a ventilator to purchasing a car, calling it "very expensive" and "very intricate." |
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/489789-trump-questions-need-for-30000-ventilators-in-new-york |
Well, at least his last sentence was true...ventilators are expensive and intricate.
He'd be a much better president if he just quit talking.
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 03/26/20 9:56 pm ::: |
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| So ... American companies manufacturing more things is a bad thing to him now??
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 03/26/20 10:17 pm ::: |
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| I’ve read about a bunch of distilleries that are using the alcohol they produce to make hand sanitizer.
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 03/26/20 10:45 pm ::: |
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COVID-19 Q&A with Dr. Fauci and Stephen Curry
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cRwkNQXbGKg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRwkNQXbGKg
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15737
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 03/26/20 11:30 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
| sambista wrote: |
every time i glance at the tv, more americans have died.
this morning, it was at 900 (or just under, or just over. i honestly don't remember).
then this evening, it was 1,135.
then, minutes later, it was 1,145.
now, just minutes later, it's 1,156. |
I'm curious about how widespread the mitigation measures have been so far in the USA, because looking at this chart...
... I would hope that Spain & France's measures, which kicked in 10-12 days ago, will start to have a downward effect on their fatality rates in the coming days.
After those 2 countries, the USA is next on the list and showing a similar trajectory. But I have no idea when to expect their decline, other than a couple of states. |
This graph (and others, similar) SCREAM the question for me: What did Japan and Korea do that we couldn't 'get' done?
Yes, both are much smaller geographically, with fewer people, BUT THEY ARE FAR MORE DENSELY POPULATED, which is a significant variable in the contagion equation. I believe that those 2 governments have much to teach us on pandemic preparedness.
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"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 03/26/20 11:43 pm ::: |
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| I don't know much about Japan (other than knowing from my own visits there that their culture emphasises personal hygiene and respect for others much more than the west does), but I do know that right from the start South Korea made it easy and safe (for people on both sides) to get tests done. Check the this chart to see how good they were with that. They also put a lot of effort into contact tracing and follow-up. i.e. after identifying people, finding out everywhere they went, and everyone they were potentially in contact with. Their achievements would look even better if it wasn't for the infamous Patient 31, who they speculate could be responsible for 20% of all Korean infections.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 03/27/20 12:04 am ::: |
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| <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8A3jiM2FNR8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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I agree that it should be, but holy cow!!!!
