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GEF34



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: 07/22/20 5:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OutdoorsKid wrote:
Thank you. I understand how admissions work, including at highly selective universities where I have worked. I have even worked as an admissions recruiter. What is considered varies from school to school. My background also includes a lot of work as a statistician, and my example is a simplification to make a larger point, which is this: not all or even most of the eligible recruits can or should be admitted to Duke.

I also have had conversations with coaches who recruit at such places and understand how recruiting can be a challenge when you are at a more selective institution.

What I am not willing to conjecture is that most or even many WBB players are able to be admitted to Duke, even if a little fudge-factor is allowed (I personally think this is unethical, and a privilege that should be extended to all, not just to student athletes). Where is the actual data to suggest otherwise?

I am going to take my argument one step further: If you look at those in the class of 2025 who have committed and who are apparently top 100 players, 24 remain: http://www.espn.com/high-school/girls-basketball/recruiting/rankings/_/class/2021 and just 2 are top ten: Azzi Fudd and Kiki Iriafen. If this information is right, then Iriafen has offers from and narrowed her list to: Baylor, UConn and also aademic powerhouses of UCLA, Notre Dame, and Stanford. https://wbbblog.com/okikiola-kiki-iriafen/ Fudd will be recruited heavily, including by the top team in the ACC last year, Louisville, and also including Notre Dame, Maryland, and South Carolina, from what I could find. I am sure that others are recruiting her.

Even if some of the 76 who are committed decommit, the set of available players who can (not will but can) commit to Duke is pretty small. And the competition for the best of them is fierce. Most of the other coaches have experience. Some have won national championships. Many have coached teams that have been in the final four. Some have huge crowds at their games.

So back to one my original points: Duke administration screwed up. The hire was too late. They should have waited another year to do a coaching search with an interim in place, or pulled the plug in JPM in March and delt with the fallout.

Maybe a diamond in the rough is what one should hope for as Howee mentioned. Kelly Graves will be on the coaches that KL competes against for some players, and KG has flat proven that he can coach.


I don’t believe Duke had any say in when Coach McCallie made her decision to step down. While hiring Kara Lawson now may have put them behind for this current recruiting class, in the long run it’s better for the program to hire her now because you don’t know what her availability will be next year, but also hiring an interim coach for this coming season isn’t going to be helpful to recruiting because what player is going to want to sign with a school knowing the coach is going to leave before you ever play for him/her. Plus if Kara plans to rebuild the program to what ever her desired style of play is and what off the court culture she wants the program to be, it’s better to start now and get an in with the younger players that will be the heart of her program instead of worrying about the immediate team and recruiting class which may or may not fit what her visions of the program. And naming an interim head coach would only put Duke another year or 2 back.



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 07/23/20 10:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

purduefanatic wrote:
Howee wrote:
brunie1064 wrote:
Ruthy Hebard was ranked #77 in her class by Prospects Nation. Not what I would call a diamond in the rough.


Ranked 77th, and drafted at #8 overall 4 years later looks VERY Diamond-esque to me. Laughing


Or the ranking publication was really off.


Or the player got better over four years.

Sorry, but taking a WNBA draft position, comparing the high school recruiting ranking four years earlier, and extrapolating that the ranking service was really off in its rating does not logically flow.

Recruiting rankings are about where players are at the time of their respective rating, with some allowance for potential/upside.

How is a recruiting rating service, which did rankings done four years earlier, expected to take into account how a player who grow and develop in college, the instruction the player receives in terms of Xs and Os, the player's desire to improve and self-motivation skills, etc.?


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 07/23/20 11:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Diamond DeShields' sister, Denim, a 5-5 point guard, is still uncommitted in the class of 2021.
Howee



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PostPosted: 07/23/20 11:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
purduefanatic wrote:
Howee wrote:
brunie1064 wrote:
Ruthy Hebard was ranked #77 in her class by Prospects Nation. Not what I would call a diamond in the rough.


Ranked 77th, and drafted at #8 overall 4 years later looks VERY Diamond-esque to me. Laughing


Or the ranking publication was really off.


Or the player got better over four years.


Yes. MUCH better than her equivalently-ranked peers. This speaks precisely my point about Ruthy Hebard: The Polishing of A Diamond in The Rough.

HS rankings are snapshots of who a player IS/Has Been up to that point, not always indicators of future success. See: Class of 2016; Joyner Holmes #2, Sabrina Ionescu #4.



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purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 07/23/20 12:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
purduefanatic wrote:
Howee wrote:
brunie1064 wrote:
Ruthy Hebard was ranked #77 in her class by Prospects Nation. Not what I would call a diamond in the rough.


Ranked 77th, and drafted at #8 overall 4 years later looks VERY Diamond-esque to me. Laughing


Or the ranking publication was really off.


Or the player got better over four years.

Sorry, but taking a WNBA draft position, comparing the high school recruiting ranking four years earlier, and extrapolating that the ranking service was really off in its rating does not logically flow.

Recruiting rankings are about where players are at the time of their respective rating, with some allowance for potential/upside.

How is a recruiting rating service, which did rankings done four years earlier, expected to take into account how a player who grow and develop in college, the instruction the player receives in terms of Xs and Os, the player's desire to improve and self-motivation skills, etc.?


Nvm...I will save my snarky comment. I'm not in a good mood today and no need to take it out on others.


GEF34



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: 07/23/20 2:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
purduefanatic wrote:
Howee wrote:
brunie1064 wrote:
Ruthy Hebard was ranked #77 in her class by Prospects Nation. Not what I would call a diamond in the rough.


Ranked 77th, and drafted at #8 overall 4 years later looks VERY Diamond-esque to me. Laughing


Or the ranking publication was really off.


Or the player got better over four years.

Sorry, but taking a WNBA draft position, comparing the high school recruiting ranking four years earlier, and extrapolating that the ranking service was really off in its rating does not logically flow.

Recruiting rankings are about where players are at the time of their respective rating, with some allowance for potential/upside.

How is a recruiting rating service, which did rankings done four years earlier, expected to take into account how a player who grow and develop in college, the instruction the player receives in terms of Xs and Os, the player's desire to improve and self-motivation skills, etc.?


Ruthy Hebard was ranked #40 by ESPN Hoopgurlz, and she made the U18 US National Team, so it’s not like it was an all around opinion back then that she was the 77th best player in her class. You see it all the time with big difference in “prospect rankings” for a variety of reasons, like exposure, sponsorships, teams, locations, etc.



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OutdoorsKid



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PostPosted: 07/23/20 6:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
OutdoorsKid wrote:
Thank you. I understand how admissions work, including at highly selective universities where I have worked. I have even worked as an admissions recruiter. What is considered varies from school to school. My background also includes a lot of work as a statistician, and my example is a simplification to make a larger point, which is this: not all or even most of the eligible recruits can or should be admitted to Duke.

I also have had conversations with coaches who recruit at such places and understand how recruiting can be a challenge when you are at a more selective institution.

What I am not willing to conjecture is that most or even many WBB players are able to be admitted to Duke, even if a little fudge-factor is allowed (I personally think this is unethical, and a privilege that should be extended to all, not just to student athletes). Where is the actual data to suggest otherwise?

I am going to take my argument one step further: If you look at those in the class of 2025 who have committed and who are apparently top 100 players, 24 remain: http://www.espn.com/high-school/girls-basketball/recruiting/rankings/_/class/2021 and just 2 are top ten: Azzi Fudd and Kiki Iriafen. If this information is right, then Iriafen has offers from and narrowed her list to: Baylor, UConn and also aademic powerhouses of UCLA, Notre Dame, and Stanford. https://wbbblog.com/okikiola-kiki-iriafen/ Fudd will be recruited heavily, including by the top team in the ACC last year, Louisville, and also including Notre Dame, Maryland, and South Carolina, from what I could find. I am sure that others are recruiting her.

Even if some of the 76 who are committed decommit, the set of available players who can (not will but can) commit to Duke is pretty small. And the competition for the best of them is fierce. Most of the other coaches have experience. Some have won national championships. Many have coached teams that have been in the final four. Some have huge crowds at their games.

So back to one my original points: Duke administration screwed up. The hire was too late. They should have waited another year to do a coaching search with an interim in place, or pulled the plug in JPM in March and delt with the fallout.

Maybe a diamond in the rough is what one should hope for as Howee mentioned. Kelly Graves will be on the coaches that KL competes against for some players, and KG has flat proven that he can coach.


I don’t believe Duke had any say in when Coach McCallie made her decision to step down. While hiring Kara Lawson now may have put them behind for this current recruiting class, in the long run it’s better for the program to hire her now because you don’t know what her availability will be next year, but also hiring an interim coach for this coming season isn’t going to be helpful to recruiting because what player is going to want to sign with a school knowing the coach is going to leave before you ever play for him/her. Plus if Kara plans to rebuild the program to what ever her desired style of play is and what off the court culture she wants the program to be, it’s better to start now and get an in with the younger players that will be the heart of her program instead of worrying about the immediate team and recruiting class which may or may not fit what her visions of the program. And naming an interim head coach would only put Duke another year or 2 back.


This was going to be McCallie's last year at Duke, because Duke was not going to offer her an extension. Duke assumed that she would just hang around, I suppose. She decided to step down.

Implicit in your argument is the notion that KL is the best possible coach for Duke to hire. I completely disagree. The compensation for the job alone would be enough to attract some top experienced coaches.

Again, why hire someone who has never coached WBB, never coached at the college level, when there are others who have succeeded at high levels in doing so, and who were interested in the job?

And I don't think it's ok for a coach to just pull scholarships. We don't know why she did it, but the fact that she is allowed to speaks to the incredible privilege granted to coaches.


GEF34



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: 07/23/20 8:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OutdoorsKid wrote:
GEF34 wrote:
OutdoorsKid wrote:
Thank you. I understand how admissions work, including at highly selective universities where I have worked. I have even worked as an admissions recruiter. What is considered varies from school to school. My background also includes a lot of work as a statistician, and my example is a simplification to make a larger point, which is this: not all or even most of the eligible recruits can or should be admitted to Duke.

I also have had conversations with coaches who recruit at such places and understand how recruiting can be a challenge when you are at a more selective institution.

What I am not willing to conjecture is that most or even many WBB players are able to be admitted to Duke, even if a little fudge-factor is allowed (I personally think this is unethical, and a privilege that should be extended to all, not just to student athletes). Where is the actual data to suggest otherwise?

I am going to take my argument one step further: If you look at those in the class of 2025 who have committed and who are apparently top 100 players, 24 remain: http://www.espn.com/high-school/girls-basketball/recruiting/rankings/_/class/2021 and just 2 are top ten: Azzi Fudd and Kiki Iriafen. If this information is right, then Iriafen has offers from and narrowed her list to: Baylor, UConn and also aademic powerhouses of UCLA, Notre Dame, and Stanford. https://wbbblog.com/okikiola-kiki-iriafen/ Fudd will be recruited heavily, including by the top team in the ACC last year, Louisville, and also including Notre Dame, Maryland, and South Carolina, from what I could find. I am sure that others are recruiting her.

Even if some of the 76 who are committed decommit, the set of available players who can (not will but can) commit to Duke is pretty small. And the competition for the best of them is fierce. Most of the other coaches have experience. Some have won national championships. Many have coached teams that have been in the final four. Some have huge crowds at their games.

So back to one my original points: Duke administration screwed up. The hire was too late. They should have waited another year to do a coaching search with an interim in place, or pulled the plug in JPM in March and delt with the fallout.

Maybe a diamond in the rough is what one should hope for as Howee mentioned. Kelly Graves will be on the coaches that KL competes against for some players, and KG has flat proven that he can coach.


I don’t believe Duke had any say in when Coach McCallie made her decision to step down. While hiring Kara Lawson now may have put them behind for this current recruiting class, in the long run it’s better for the program to hire her now because you don’t know what her availability will be next year, but also hiring an interim coach for this coming season isn’t going to be helpful to recruiting because what player is going to want to sign with a school knowing the coach is going to leave before you ever play for him/her. Plus if Kara plans to rebuild the program to what ever her desired style of play is and what off the court culture she wants the program to be, it’s better to start now and get an in with the younger players that will be the heart of her program instead of worrying about the immediate team and recruiting class which may or may not fit what her visions of the program. And naming an interim head coach would only put Duke another year or 2 back.


This was going to be McCallie's last year at Duke, because Duke was not going to offer her an extension. Duke assumed that she would just hang around, I suppose. She decided to step down.

Implicit in your argument is the notion that KL is the best possible coach for Duke to hire. I completely disagree. The compensation for the job alone would be enough to attract some top experienced coaches.

Again, why hire someone who has never coached WBB, never coached at the college level, when there are others who have succeeded at high levels in doing so, and who were interested in the job?

And I don't think it's ok for a coach to just pull scholarships. We don't know why she did it, but the fact that she is allowed to speaks to the incredible privilege granted to coaches.


Regarding the scholarships, she didn’t technically pull a scholarship because they didn’t sign, assuming of course what the people online have said that she told them she was rescinding the offer made by the previous staff.

As far as the coaching candidates go, I don’t know who was on their list, nor do I know who was at the top of the list, what I do know is she accepted the position. And you say the compensation would be enough to attract top experienced coaches, but do you have any actual information that top experienced coaches actually applied for the job and were turned away in favor of Kara Lawson. I’ve seen list of media people saying Duke should hire this person or that person, and I recall reading Duke interviews 3 people, were those 2 other people part of this top experienced coach group you speak of. Many people here and other places online have talked about how Duke is such a coveted job, but I’ve heard some top coaches say they aren’t interested, I haven’t seen anything of any top coaches that are interested, so as far as I can tell it’s a lot of assumptions that this was such a coveted job.

Regarding Coach McCallie, I’m not sure what you are trying to say, from all reports Duke had no intentions of firing her, so I’m not sure how that situation could have been handled differently, she made the decision to step down when she did, the only thing Duke could have done to make her leave at an earlier time would have been to fire her, but without cause I’m sure that would open them up to lawsuits they don’t need and would lose.



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purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 07/23/20 8:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
OutdoorsKid wrote:

This was going to be McCallie's last year at Duke, because Duke was not going to offer her an extension. Duke assumed that she would just hang around, I suppose. She decided to step down.

Implicit in your argument is the notion that KL is the best possible coach for Duke to hire. I completely disagree. The compensation for the job alone would be enough to attract some top experienced coaches.

Again, why hire someone who has never coached WBB, never coached at the college level, when there are others who have succeeded at high levels in doing so, and who were interested in the job?

And I don't think it's ok for a coach to just pull scholarships. We don't know why she did it, but the fact that she is allowed to speaks to the incredible privilege granted to coaches.


Regarding the scholarships, she didn’t technically pull a scholarship because they didn’t sign, assuming of course what the people online have said that she told them she was rescinding the offer made by the previous staff.

As far as the coaching candidates go, I don’t know who was on their list, nor do I know who was at the top of the list, what I do know is she accepted the position. And you say the compensation would be enough to attract top experienced coaches, but do you have any actual information that top experienced coaches actually applied for the job and were turned away in favor of Kara Lawson. I’ve seen list of media people saying Duke should hire this person or that person, and I recall reading Duke interviews 3 people, were those 2 other people part of this top experienced coach group you speak of. Many people here and other places online have talked about how Duke is such a coveted job, but I’ve heard some top coaches say they aren’t interested, I haven’t seen anything of any top coaches that are interested, so as far as I can tell it’s a lot of assumptions that this was such a coveted job.

Regarding Coach McCallie, I’m not sure what you are trying to say, from all reports Duke had no intentions of firing her, so I’m not sure how that situation could have been handled differently, she made the decision to step down when she did, the only thing Duke could have done to make her leave at an earlier time would have been to fire her, but without cause I’m sure that would open them up to lawsuits they don’t need and would lose.


Thanks GEF...exactly what I was thinking. I really don't get the "pulling of scholarships" comment. It's not like she told a current student-athlete that they wouldn't have a scholarship next month. These are kids that wouldn't be there for more than a year from now. A new coach has absolutely no obligation to keep a verbal commitment that happened between that recruit and the former head coach. I don't see this "privilege" that was mentioned.

Anyway...


Conway Gamecock



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PostPosted: 07/24/20 1:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Diamond DeShields' sister, Denim, a 5-5 point guard, is still uncommitted in the class of 2021.


How must it feel for your parents to consider your older sibling to be a diamond, while only considering you to be denim???



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tfan



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PostPosted: 07/24/20 2:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
purduefanatic wrote:
Howee wrote:
brunie1064 wrote:
Ruthy Hebard was ranked #77 in her class by Prospects Nation. Not what I would call a diamond in the rough.


Ranked 77th, and drafted at #8 overall 4 years later looks VERY Diamond-esque to me. Laughing


Or the ranking publication was really off.


Or the player got better over four years.

Sorry, but taking a WNBA draft position, comparing the high school recruiting ranking four years earlier, and extrapolating that the ranking service was really off in its rating does not logically flow.

Recruiting rankings are about where players are at the time of their respective rating, with some allowance for potential/upside.

How is a recruiting rating service, which did rankings done four years earlier, expected to take into account how a player who grow and develop in college, the instruction the player receives in terms of Xs and Os, the player's desire to improve and self-motivation skills, etc.?


Hebard is from Alaska. Was she at the lower 48 AAU gatherings so the the ratings services got a good look at her?


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 07/24/20 8:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
OutdoorsKid wrote:

This was going to be McCallie's last year at Duke, because Duke was not going to offer her an extension. Duke assumed that she would just hang around, I suppose. She decided to step down.

Implicit in your argument is the notion that KL is the best possible coach for Duke to hire. I completely disagree. The compensation for the job alone would be enough to attract some top experienced coaches.

Again, why hire someone who has never coached WBB, never coached at the college level, when there are others who have succeeded at high levels in doing so, and who were interested in the job?

And I don't think it's ok for a coach to just pull scholarships. We don't know why she did it, but the fact that she is allowed to speaks to the incredible privilege granted to coaches.


Regarding the scholarships, she didn’t technically pull a scholarship because they didn’t sign, assuming of course what the people online have said that she told them she was rescinding the offer made by the previous staff.

As far as the coaching candidates go, I don’t know who was on their list, nor do I know who was at the top of the list, what I do know is she accepted the position. And you say the compensation would be enough to attract top experienced coaches, but do you have any actual information that top experienced coaches actually applied for the job and were turned away in favor of Kara Lawson. I’ve seen list of media people saying Duke should hire this person or that person, and I recall reading Duke interviews 3 people, were those 2 other people part of this top experienced coach group you speak of. Many people here and other places online have talked about how Duke is such a coveted job, but I’ve heard some top coaches say they aren’t interested, I haven’t seen anything of any top coaches that are interested, so as far as I can tell it’s a lot of assumptions that this was such a coveted job.

Regarding Coach McCallie, I’m not sure what you are trying to say, from all reports Duke had no intentions of firing her, so I’m not sure how that situation could have been handled differently, she made the decision to step down when she did, the only thing Duke could have done to make her leave at an earlier time would have been to fire her, but without cause I’m sure that would open them up to lawsuits they don’t need and would lose.


I think these arguments discount any reluctance of some "top coaches" to uproot and move their families to a new location, new healthcare providers/systems, and new schools during a pandemic, particularly since it seems quite likely the infection will continue to proliferate during the fall and when we have no idea if there will even be a WCBB season this year.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 07/24/20 10:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When a girl is promised a scholarship she pulls herself off the recruiting radar and begins planning her future -- so common practice is for new coaches to honor those scholarships, at least for the first year. Otherwise the player is in limbo, and may no longer have any offers available.

If that happens, it's very hard on the girl and her family because now she has to either pay for her first year of college or go to a junior college.

It also burns bridges with club and high school coaches who now have reasonable doubts about how a coach who pulls scholarships will treat players in the future. The coach may, of course, honor her own offers, and probably will do so, but since few coaches step in and upend the lives of girls who were promised a scholarship, it does raise questions.



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purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 07/24/20 12:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

All this speculation on here...does anyone know exactly what was said and when?? Seriously...

And this is July people. In fact, it was around mid July when they would have found out. NLI's aren't signed until November. How many schools are done with recruiting?

Everyone is making this sound so heinous when in fact, it really isn't. I mean, if she doesn't have any interest in those kids being a part of her program, why drag them along for a year and then tell them they won't have a scholarship?

When a coaching change happens in the spring time and clearly after NLI's were signed in the early period (the aforementioned November), the new coach pretty much always honors those commitments and those scholarships (paperwork is signed). We are talking about verbal commitments between a recruit and the former coach. Several months before the actual signing date.

And no, I would bet my life that the kids we are talking about will NOT go without any other offers and have to pay their own way to a school in the Fall of '21.

If Kara Lawson has dialogue with any coaches involved in these players and explains the situation, all will be fine. I mean, these aren't even scholarships that SHE offered! It's one thing if she offers a kid and then revokes that offer...that certainly raises red flags and will burn bridges. These are offers from a previous coach that literally had nothing to do with any sort of relationship between Lawson, players and any involved coaches of HS or AAU programs.


GEF34



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PostPosted: 07/24/20 3:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
GEF34 wrote:
OutdoorsKid wrote:

This was going to be McCallie's last year at Duke, because Duke was not going to offer her an extension. Duke assumed that she would just hang around, I suppose. She decided to step down.

Implicit in your argument is the notion that KL is the best possible coach for Duke to hire. I completely disagree. The compensation for the job alone would be enough to attract some top experienced coaches.

Again, why hire someone who has never coached WBB, never coached at the college level, when there are others who have succeeded at high levels in doing so, and who were interested in the job?

And I don't think it's ok for a coach to just pull scholarships. We don't know why she did it, but the fact that she is allowed to speaks to the incredible privilege granted to coaches.


Regarding the scholarships, she didn’t technically pull a scholarship because they didn’t sign, assuming of course what the people online have said that she told them she was rescinding the offer made by the previous staff.

As far as the coaching candidates go, I don’t know who was on their list, nor do I know who was at the top of the list, what I do know is she accepted the position. And you say the compensation would be enough to attract top experienced coaches, but do you have any actual information that top experienced coaches actually applied for the job and were turned away in favor of Kara Lawson. I’ve seen list of media people saying Duke should hire this person or that person, and I recall reading Duke interviews 3 people, were those 2 other people part of this top experienced coach group you speak of. Many people here and other places online have talked about how Duke is such a coveted job, but I’ve heard some top coaches say they aren’t interested, I haven’t seen anything of any top coaches that are interested, so as far as I can tell it’s a lot of assumptions that this was such a coveted job.

Regarding Coach McCallie, I’m not sure what you are trying to say, from all reports Duke had no intentions of firing her, so I’m not sure how that situation could have been handled differently, she made the decision to step down when she did, the only thing Duke could have done to make her leave at an earlier time would have been to fire her, but without cause I’m sure that would open them up to lawsuits they don’t need and would lose.


I think these arguments discount any reluctance of some "top coaches" to uproot and move their families to a new location, new healthcare providers/systems, and new schools during a pandemic, particularly since it seems quite likely the infection will continue to proliferate during the fall and when we have no idea if there will even be a WCBB season this year.


I don’t think I’m discounting any of those things you are saying. But all that you are saying are even more of a reason that compensation would be enough to attract them, which is the comment I was responding to. There are a variety of reasons top coaches aren’t interested, this year and maybe ever to doing to Duke and money wouldn’t change that for some coaches. Now or course if this were a “normal” time the coaching pool could have been different, but without knowing who applied, who was on Duke’s list, who they interviewed and how those interviews went, saying Kara Lawson wasn’t the best candidate or the best hire is not a leap I’m willing to take.



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GEF34



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PostPosted: 07/24/20 3:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
When a girl is promised a scholarship she pulls herself off the recruiting radar and begins planning her future -- so common practice is for new coaches to honor those scholarships, at least for the first year. Otherwise the player is in limbo, and may no longer have any offers available.

If that happens, it's very hard on the girl and her family because now she has to either pay for her first year of college or go to a junior college.

It also burns bridges with club and high school coaches who now have reasonable doubts about how a coach who pulls scholarships will treat players in the future. The coach may, of course, honor her own offers, and probably will do so, but since few coaches step in and upend the lives of girls who were promised a scholarship, it does raise questions.


When the player has signed yes it’s a common practice to honor NLI, or giving the player the option to leave if they wish, but it’s not a common practice to honor all verbal scholarship offers to every person offered a scholarship by the previous staff.

Btw it’s not even a common practice for an outgoing staff to tell the incoming staff all the players they’ve offered scholarships to so how can you expect it be a common practice to honor all scholarship offers made by the previous staff.

And in Duke situation we are talking about verbal commits from the recruit, but we don’t know the conversation had between all parties involved, but everyone is quick to point to the system and Kara as the problem. As far as I can tell it’s pure speculation that Kara just called and said I’m no longer honoring your scholarship offer.



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PostPosted: 07/24/20 8:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
When a girl is promised a scholarship she pulls herself off the recruiting radar and begins planning her future -- so common practice is for new coaches to honor those scholarships, at least for the first year. Otherwise the player is in limbo, and may no longer have any offers available.

If that happens, it's very hard on the girl and her family because now she has to either pay for her first year of college or go to a junior college.

It also burns bridges with club and high school coaches who now have reasonable doubts about how a coach who pulls scholarships will treat players in the future. The coach may, of course, honor her own offers, and probably will do so, but since few coaches step in and upend the lives of girls who were promised a scholarship, it does raise questions.


When the player has signed yes it’s a common practice to honor NLI, or giving the player the option to leave if they wish, but it’s not a common practice to honor all verbal scholarship offers to every person offered a scholarship by the previous staff.

Btw it’s not even a common practice for an outgoing staff to tell the incoming staff all the players they’ve offered scholarships to so how can you expect it be a common practice to honor all scholarship offers made by the previous staff.

And in Duke situation we are talking about verbal commits from the recruit, but we don’t know the conversation had between all parties involved, but everyone is quick to point to the system and Kara as the problem. As far as I can tell it’s pure speculation that Kara just called and said I’m no longer honoring your scholarship offer.


Apparently the girls tweeted about the withdrawal of their offers.


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PostPosted: 07/24/20 8:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
GEF34 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
When a girl is promised a scholarship she pulls herself off the recruiting radar and begins planning her future -- so common practice is for new coaches to honor those scholarships, at least for the first year. Otherwise the player is in limbo, and may no longer have any offers available.

If that happens, it's very hard on the girl and her family because now she has to either pay for her first year of college or go to a junior college.

It also burns bridges with club and high school coaches who now have reasonable doubts about how a coach who pulls scholarships will treat players in the future. The coach may, of course, honor her own offers, and probably will do so, but since few coaches step in and upend the lives of girls who were promised a scholarship, it does raise questions.


When the player has signed yes it’s a common practice to honor NLI, or giving the player the option to leave if they wish, but it’s not a common practice to honor all verbal scholarship offers to every person offered a scholarship by the previous staff.

Btw it’s not even a common practice for an outgoing staff to tell the incoming staff all the players they’ve offered scholarships to so how can you expect it be a common practice to honor all scholarship offers made by the previous staff.

And in Duke situation we are talking about verbal commits from the recruit, but we don’t know the conversation had between all parties involved, but everyone is quick to point to the system and Kara as the problem. As far as I can tell it’s pure speculation that Kara just called and said I’m no longer honoring your scholarship offer.


Apparently the girls tweeted about the withdrawal of their offers.


3 of the recruits said they decided it was in their best interest to recommit, the 4th doesn’t mention anything about why she is decommitting, but her coach replies saying Kara is not honoring the offer, but it doesn’t go into detail of how the conversation actually went or if Kara gave a reason for why. In that tweet it also mentions another player from Australia that was a transfer from Oregon who also committed to Duke, and her commitment was not honored, but I can’t find any information of that commitment, so I don’t know if she signed, or was planning to enroll.



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PostPosted: 07/24/20 9:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Conway Gamecock wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Diamond DeShields' sister, Denim, a 5-5 point guard, is still uncommitted in the class of 2021.


How must it feel for your parents to consider your older sibling to be a diamond, while only considering you to be denim???



Very Happy


and by now, coaches must be aware that taking Denim will mean dealing with her Mom.



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PostPosted: 07/25/20 12:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Conway Gamecock wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Diamond DeShields' sister, Denim, a 5-5 point guard, is still uncommitted in the class of 2021.


How must it feel for your parents to consider your older sibling to be a diamond, while only considering you to be denim???



Very Happy


and by now, coaches must be aware that taking Denim will mean dealing with her Mom.


Not to mention her dad coaching from the stands. Ouch.



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PostPosted: 08/08/20 1:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

She isn't quite Sabrina Ionescu, but Miramonte High School guard Mia Mastrov has committed to Cal.

https://bearinsider.com/s/2290/cal-womens-hoops-adds-2021-miramonte-guard-mia-mastrov?utm_source=f5-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=000260&utm_content=100


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PostPosted: 08/08/20 3:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lauren Walker, one of the decommits from Duke in July, has commited to Michigan State, per her Twitter account. In July alone, she also received offers from ODU, Colorado University, TCU, Florida Atlantic University, Texas Tech, and TCU.

Brooklyn Rewers, also part of the 4 who decommited from Duke in July, also commited to Michigan State, per her Twitter account.

Marisa Davis-Jones has picked up several offers since decommiting from Duke. I could not find any updates on Olivia Pollerd.


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PostPosted: 08/08/20 3:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kiki Iriafen, 6-3 F, committed to Stanford. Her finalists also included Notre Dame, UConn, Baylor, and UCLA. Impressive. Ranked #9 in espnW Rankings Class of 2021.


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PostPosted: 08/09/20 10:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OutdoorsKid wrote:
Kiki Iriafen, 6-3 F, committed to Stanford. Her finalists also included Notre Dame, UConn, Baylor, and UCLA. Impressive. Ranked #9 in espnW Rankings Class of 2021.


This is great! But my greedy self says sadly we seem to be out of the running for #1 Azzi Fudd. Rumor is she will stay East Coast.



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PostPosted: 08/09/20 10:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
OutdoorsKid wrote:
Kiki Iriafen, 6-3 F, committed to Stanford. Her finalists also included Notre Dame, UConn, Baylor, and UCLA. Impressive. Ranked #9 in espnW Rankings Class of 2021.


This is great! But my greedy self says sadly we seem to be out of the running for #1 Azzi Fudd. Rumor is she will stay East Coast.


I think Fudd is either UConn bound, or maybe Duke. But note that rumor has it Paige Bueckers, the prize UConn commit, is staying with the Fudd family this summer.



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