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Definition Of Bad Optics Between Texas And Sedona Prince

 
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Conway Gamecock



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PostPosted: 01/19/20 3:33 am    ::: Definition Of Bad Optics Between Texas And Sedona Prince Reply Reply with quote

So here is 6-7 Post Sedona Prince, a 5-star McDonalds' All-America out of Liberty Hill, TX. She commits to the University of Texas, and is a part of Texas' 2018 class, Prince was an overall top 10 prospect in her class along with fellow Longhorns commit F Charlie Collier, and the #3 Post per ESPN, behind Baylor's Queen Egbo and Connecticut's Olivia Nelson-Ododa. Prince was looked forward by the Longhorn fans to joining Collier and junior F Joyner Holmes in bringing a dominant post presence to the program.

But that's pretty much where the happy music ends. Prince participated in the U18 FIBA Americas Championship being held in Mexico, in August 2018. During this tournament Prince suffered a broken leg against Puerto Rica, where both the tibia and fibula were broken. Her mother Tambra Prince described the break as a "clean break".

Prince had surgery performed in Mexico City to insert a rod into her leg. This was done with no present authority or supervision by the Texas Medical Staff or Athletic Department. Her family was not there. Essentially Prince underwent that by herself.

Obviously she would have to red-shirt her first year at Texas, and return for the 2019-2020 season. That is this year's season.

However, the initial surgery did not heal properly, and a second surgery to correct the first surgery was required. This was done in the Spring of 2019. This required a metal plate to be inserted into the leg, because the bone was not set properly from the 1st surgery, and was healing incorrectly. But again, even with this process, Prince had to handle it alone, although this time she had her mother with her.

But there was very little involvement - per Prince - with Texas trainers, physicians, or team staff. Prince stated she was being "pumped" with anti-biotics daily to the point that she had to be hospitalized for kidney damage.

So during this process, Prince lost trust in the Texas staff, where she felt "unsafe". So, Prince decided during this that she wanted to transfer out of the Texas program, and she ultimately chose Oregon over Connecticut and Notre Dame. She and Oregon tried to apply for a waiver for Prince to play this season since she red-shirted 2018-19, but the NCAA denied the waiver, so Prince is sitting this season out as well.

Now, it appears from Prince's twitter, that a hospital is sending her a bill of $22,000.00 for medical expenses for her leg injury, that came from visits she took after her 2nd surgery. Apparently Texas nor USA Basketball won't cover it, and the NCAA won't allow Oregon to pick up the tab. So Prince's family will be saddled with the debt.:

Prince:

Quote:
"I usually don't like to open up about a personal subject like this, but I feel like it needs to get the attention it deserves. Due to my injury last year, I received a call informing me of the $22,000.00 I owe in medical bills, which has now gone to collections. As a 19 year old collegiate basketball player, no one should have to go through this. Especially since I was under the care of my institution during the time of my visit. The University I now attend is unable to pay for this debt because of NCAA rules, and I am now deeply saddened that I will carry this burden for the rest of my life. No student athlete should ever have to struggle with this or walk away with debt from playing the sport they love. I hope my past experience opens the eyes of many, and prevents other student athletes from falling victim to the negligence that I've experienced. #scoducks."


Its crazy....


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 01/19/20 4:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The whole situation is unfortunate from a lot of perspectives. However, I'm not sure the information in the OP is entirely correct, given this....
https://texassports.com/news/2018/8/6/update-on-womens-basketballs-sedona-prince.aspx It seems her first surgery and care was provided primarily at UT.

I'm also not clear from this statement exactly where she received the bill from. Her second surgery was performed in NY. Prince was accompanied to drs appts with her mother but thought the UT trainers should have been present. (?)
https://247sports.com/Article/Oregon-womens-basketball-Sedona-Prince-financial-hardship-injury-NCAA-Texas-142371326/


It would be interesting to learn what insurance coverage is provided to WCBB players by their various schools, and whether that differs from the standard student policies. I'm surprised she hasn't received a bill for the medical evacuation from Mexico because that usually isn't included in medical ins policies.


Hoopsmom



Joined: 05 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: 01/19/20 7:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I’m not sure why she thinks University of Texas should be responsible. The injury was received while she was playing for the USA team. If anything, that is who should be picking up the medical bills. Or their insurance policy should. I’m not sure how they are insured while playing for Team USA, but Texas should not be on the hook.


Carol Anne



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PostPosted: 01/19/20 8:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hoopsmom wrote:
I’m not sure why she thinks University of Texas should be responsible. The injury was received while she was playing for the USA team. If anything, that is who should be picking up the medical bills. Or their insurance policy should. I’m not sure how they are insured while playing for Team USA, but Texas should not be on the hook.

Agreed! I wonder how Oregon WBB feels about Prince's online campaign against UTexas. Time to lawyer up, Sedona! Surprised


mzonefan



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PostPosted: 01/19/20 9:19 am    ::: Re: Definition Of Bad Optics Between Texas And Sedona Prince Reply Reply with quote

While I feel for the kid and understand the weight of the bills, the OP’s “Definition of bad optics” title doesn’t add up.

Conway Gamecock wrote:

Prince had surgery performed in Mexico City to insert a rod into her leg. This was done with no present authority or supervision by the Texas Medical Staff or Athletic Department. Her family was not there. Essentially Prince underwent that by herself.


Wrong. When she got back home to Texas, the surgery was performed. If there are any bad optics to this, Team USA left a kid on her own in Mexico City under questionable care to wait to be safe to fly.

Quote:

However, the initial surgery did not heal properly, and a second surgery to correct the first surgery was required. This was done in the Spring of 2019. This required a metal plate to be inserted into the leg, because the bone was not set properly from the 1st surgery, and was healing incorrectly. But again, even with this process, Prince had to handle it alone, although this time she had her mother with her.


Because they elected to have a second opinion from the TX doctor’s and went to NY where the surgery was performed instead. (The surgery was 2/12/19 per UT’s press release).

Quote:

But there was very little involvement - per Prince - with Texas trainers, physicians, or team staff. Prince stated she was being "pumped" with anti-biotics daily to the point that she had to be hospitalized for kidney damage.


This makes me wonder who prescribed the antibiotics - NY doc post-surgery or back at UT? When did they come back to Texas? By her own statements, she had to use a wheelchair or crutches until 9-10 weeks after the surgery.

Quote:

Now, it appears from Prince's twitter, that a hospital is sending her a bill of $22,000.00 for medical expenses for her leg injury, that came from visits she took after her 2nd surgery. Apparently Texas nor USA Basketball won't cover it, and the NCAA won't allow Oregon to pick up the tab. So Prince's family will be saddled with the debt.


This hospitalization appears not to be directly from the injury but instead a reaction to the antibiotics.


vossy



Joined: 13 Aug 2019
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PostPosted: 01/19/20 12:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Agree with above posters - why isn't this USA Basketball's responsibility? New Forbes article suggest the $22K medical bill was incurred after she had left Texas.
"Prince decided to transfer in the summer of 2019 to the University of Oregon, looking for a team to care about her, and a new opportunity to find a better experience. She experienced further complications when she found out the antibiotics she was given were causing kidney damage, further threatening her health."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/karenweaver/2020/01/18/add-this-to-your-list-of-ncaa-to-dos-medical-expenses/#1f9ceedb752f


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 01/19/20 1:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There really isn’t enough info about the who, what, when, and wheres, to assign any blame, if in fact any is deserved. Stages of her care were apparently split between Mexico, Texas, NY, and Oregon, and possibly between USAB, UT, UO and/or her parent's insurance coverage. It's not surprising she's had a denial of coverage. I wonder if she's appealing that, or just taking to social media. The complaints that she felt slighted by UT because their trainers didn’t attend her dr's appts seem a little off.


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 01/19/20 5:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is tough to assess. It seems USAB should have been originally responsible, and it is unfortunate that she got poor care from the doctors. The subsequent follow up care also seems questionable. At that point it would seem that Texas should have been involved, but there is no info about who chose the doctors and what type of communication there was between her and Texas.

When she chose to transfer she should have asked about her medical care (including the cost). I generally support players when they want to transfer but it does seem that Texas was in a bad situation. They paid for her medical care (for at least some period), but she never played for them, and she wasn't injured under their care.

There are certainly legal issues and specific facts that could clarify exactly who was responsible, but it seems Sedona Prince is trying to find a scapegoat and not taking her share of responsibility for what has been a truly unfortunate occurrence.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 01/19/20 5:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
This is tough to assess. It seems USAB should have been originally responsible, and it is unfortunate that she got poor care from the doctors. The subsequent follow up care also seems questionable. At that point it would seem that Texas should have been involved, but there is no info about who chose the doctors and what type of communication there was between her and Texas.

When she chose to transfer she should have asked about her medical care (including the cost). I generally support players when they want to transfer but it does seem that Texas was in a bad situation. They paid for her medical care (for at least some period), but she never played for them, and she wasn't injured under their care.

There are certainly legal issues and specific facts that could clarify exactly who was responsible, but it seems Sedona Prince is trying to find a scapegoat and not taking her share of responsibility for what has been a truly unfortunate occurrence.


"Poor care" is assuming facts not in evidence.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 01/19/20 6:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The whole thing is an indictment of the US medical "insurance" system and a pretty damn good argument for going to some version of what many other countries have, and that is the last time I am going to say anything remotely political here.



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Iluvacc



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PostPosted: 01/19/20 6:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
The whole thing is an indictment of the US medical "insurance" system and a pretty damn good argument for going to some version of what many other countries have, and that is the last time I am going to say anything remotely political here.



X_______


myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/19/20 8:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Iluvacc wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
The whole thing is an indictment of the US medical "insurance" system and a pretty damn good argument for going to some version of what many other countries have, and that is the last time I am going to say anything remotely political here.



X_______


I wanted to say that too but resisted. Thank you for blurting it out!



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ucbart



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PostPosted: 01/19/20 9:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is a very unfortunate system, for sure. When I read the article, I was SHOCKED that USAB wasn't responsible for her medical bills. I would think that anytime players are putting on a USAB uniform, for try-outs, training, practice or competition....they should inherit all responsibility for a players care.

With that being said, I don't think Sedona should've done this and as everyone knows, there are three sides to every story, one side, the other side, and the truth.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 01/19/20 11:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The facts are incomplete and fuzzy and some of what Prince writes sounds sort of naive or immature, such as no doctors or school trainers accompanying her to physical therapy appointments.

The USA is a world of medical insurance contracts and, at Prince's age, state Medicaid. It sounds as if her initial care in Mexico was paid for, as was her first surgery in Austin and her second surgery somewhere else (maybe New York).

Her unpaid bill seems to have been incurred for a hospital stay related to antibiotic side effects. If this stay occurred after she was off the U-Texas student insurance and before she was on U-Oregon student insurance, then she would likely be personally liable. It's unlikely that the USA Basketball insurance would reach that far into the future for unexpected complications, plus she says: "USA basketball did everything they could to help and I am grateful for their kindness."

If she was not covered by any school or USAB insurance, she could have been covered as a dependent on her parents' insurance, whatever that may have been, but maybe there was a gigantic deductible as there is on many plans such as Obamacare. If she had no coverage at all, she presumably would be eligible for state Medicaid.

But we don't really know, as the complete facts and timings are ambiguous.

So, maybe she has a $22,000 medical debt. That's unfortunate, but many adults have big medical and other debts, and many students who don't have full scholarships have hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loan debt for decades. It's all part of being alive. Bad things happen in life, and both bad and good things can cost of lot of money. There's no free lunch or Utopia.
Howee



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PostPosted: 01/19/20 11:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
....and as everyone knows, there are three sides to every story, one side, the other side, and the truth.


Yeah, that appears to be a gigantic flustercuck of who did/didn't do what they were s'posta. And yes, it does illustrate the pitfalls of our current Health Insurance industry, where NOBODY wants to accept responsibility if there's any way to pass the buck.

Why doesn't her family's health insurance cover things, at the least? Insurers are typically adept at finding which of their own ranks are culpable in such a scenario, but it certainly seems as though USAB oughtta be the primary agent responsible. What is not being portrayed accurately?

GlennMacGrady wrote:
So, maybe she has a $22,000 medical debt. That's unfortunate, but many adults have big medical and other debts, and many students who don't have full scholarships have hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loan debt for decades. It's all part of being alive. Bad things happen in life, and both bad and good things can cost of lot of money. There's no free lunch or Utopia.


I kinda thought some of that myself....$22K debt isn't much, in comparison to many typical graduates from colleges, but....I still think SHE should not be saddled with that, given the origin of the problem.



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 01/20/20 12:36 am    ::: Re: Definition Of Bad Optics Between Texas And Sedona Prince Reply Reply with quote

Prince:

Quote:
"I usually don't like to open up about a personal subject like this, but I feel like it needs to get the attention it deserves. Due to my injury last year, I received a call informing me of the $22,000.00 I owe in medical bills, which has now gone to collections. As a 19 year old collegiate basketball player, no one should have to go through this. Especially since I was under the care of my institution during the time of my visit. The University I now attend is unable to pay for this debt because of NCAA rules, and I am now deeply saddened that I will carry this burden for the rest of my life. No student athlete should ever have to struggle with this or walk away with debt from playing the sport they love. I hope my past experience opens the eyes of many, and prevents other student athletes from falling victim to the negligence that I've experienced. #scoducks."



I want to know more details about this.

What personal insurance did she have? Was she still on her parents insurance? Did she have Medicaid? No insurance of any kind?

Assuming it isn't going to be a USAB or UT bill to pay, do her parents have a really high deductible/out of pocket plan? I see that the treatment crossed the end of one year and into the beginning of the next, most likely requiring the deductible/out of pocket to be re-met?*


*On my soapbox a little here - it so totally sucks to go through most of an entire year and not need your insurance, then late December comes and you need a surgery/procedure where you have to meet a high deductible/out of pocket before your insurance fully kicks in. Then, because of the surgery/procedure you need to do rehab beginning in January where you have to re-meet that high deductible/out of pocket.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 01/20/20 8:20 pm    ::: Re: Definition Of Bad Optics Between Texas And Sedona Prince Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Prince:

Quote:
"I usually don't like to open up about a personal subject like this, but I feel like it needs to get the attention it deserves. Due to my injury last year, I received a call informing me of the $22,000.00 I owe in medical bills, which has now gone to collections. As a 19 year old collegiate basketball player, no one should have to go through this. Especially since I was under the care of my institution during the time of my visit. The University I now attend is unable to pay for this debt because of NCAA rules, and I am now deeply saddened that I will carry this burden for the rest of my life. No student athlete should ever have to struggle with this or walk away with debt from playing the sport they love. I hope my past experience opens the eyes of many, and prevents other student athletes from falling victim to the negligence that I've experienced. #scoducks."



I want to know more details about this.

What personal insurance did she have? Was she still on her parents insurance? Did she have Medicaid? No insurance of any kind?

Assuming it isn't going to be a USAB or UT bill to pay, do her parents have a really high deductible/out of pocket plan? I see that the treatment crossed the end of one year and into the beginning of the next, most likely requiring the deductible/out of pocket to be re-met?*


*On my soapbox a little here - it so totally sucks to go through most of an entire year and not need your insurance, then late December comes and you need a surgery/procedure where you have to meet a high deductible/out of pocket before your insurance fully kicks in. Then, because of the surgery/procedure you need to do rehab beginning in January where you have to re-meet that high deductible/out of pocket.


It's unlikely that her first notification of unpaid medical bills was a call from collections. I think a few balls were dropped in terms of getting claim forms submitted and documentation provided to insurance company(s) before things got to this point.


Conway Gamecock



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PostPosted: 01/21/20 1:59 am    ::: Re: Definition Of Bad Optics Between Texas And Sedona Prince Reply Reply with quote

mzonefan wrote:
While I feel for the kid and understand the weight of the bills, the OP’s “Definition of bad optics” title doesn’t add up.

Conway Gamecock wrote:

Prince had surgery performed in Mexico City to insert a rod into her leg. This was done with no present authority or supervision by the Texas Medical Staff or Athletic Department. Her family was not there. Essentially Prince underwent that by herself.


Wrong. When she got back home to Texas, the surgery was performed. If there are any bad optics to this, Team USA left a kid on her own in Mexico City under questionable care to wait to be safe to fly.

Quote:

However, the initial surgery did not heal properly, and a second surgery to correct the first surgery was required. This was done in the Spring of 2019. This required a metal plate to be inserted into the leg, because the bone was not set properly from the 1st surgery, and was healing incorrectly. But again, even with this process, Prince had to handle it alone, although this time she had her mother with her.


Because they elected to have a second opinion from the TX doctor’s and went to NY where the surgery was performed instead. (The surgery was 2/12/19 per UT’s press release).

Quote:

But there was very little involvement - per Prince - with Texas trainers, physicians, or team staff. Prince stated she was being "pumped" with anti-biotics daily to the point that she had to be hospitalized for kidney damage.


This makes me wonder who prescribed the antibiotics - NY doc post-surgery or back at UT? When did they come back to Texas? By her own statements, she had to use a wheelchair or crutches until 9-10 weeks after the surgery.

Quote:

Now, it appears from Prince's twitter, that a hospital is sending her a bill of $22,000.00 for medical expenses for her leg injury, that came from visits she took after her 2nd surgery. Apparently Texas nor USA Basketball won't cover it, and the NCAA won't allow Oregon to pick up the tab. So Prince's family will be saddled with the debt.


This hospitalization appears not to be directly from the injury but instead a reaction to the antibiotics.


Yeah I mis-interpreted what Prince said in her online PourYourHeartOut.com podcast interview (https://www.pouryourheartout.com/pour-your-heart-out-podcast - Episode 20 "Sedona's Story") - she talked about having to be at the Mexico City hospital for a couple of days, of the doctor there meeting her wearing a tank-top t-shirt on the job, and the condition of the hospital and being alone. She did state that she then flew to Austin and had her surgery there, and I somehow skipped over that part as she continued to talk about being alone with her meetings with medical staff there. So her initial surgery was done in Austin Texas, apparently coordinated through the U. of Texas if not done by U. of Texas medical staff.

She does state in both her podcast as well as the above tweet that she was billed for medical services that were incurred during a time when she was under the care of her college institution at the time - the U. of Texas. I could not find anything that states as you do, that Prince sought a 2nd opinion from physicians separate from the U. of Texas, or had surgery done by physicians NOT pre-approved by the U. of Texas medical staff and U. of Texas Athletic Department.

I saw where the UT AD tweeted best-wishes for Prince's recovery back in February of 2019, but that was for the follow-up surgery where Prince had the metal rod(s) removed from her leg, that was inserted during the initial surgery. It was after this procedure that Prince experienced continued pain from her leg, and it was determined the bones did not heal properly set, and needed to be re-broken and then re-set, and then a metal plate this time inserted into her leg. That was the 2nd surgery performed....


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 02/10/20 5:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm curious in what country a patient can simply decide on her own that she doesn't like the care she's getting, pack up and travel 1500 miles to another part of the country, to different hospital, and with different doctors and, have the national health system pick up the tab for her preference in care?

I think the answer is "none".

My uninformed guess is either that her transfer decisions left her uninsured during some gap of time, or that her own decisions regarding care resulted in procedures deemed not medically necessary (and those judgements are made in single payer systems too, btw; they don't just pay for anything you decide you want).

Although I'm wondering why either USA Basketball isn't taking responsibility for all of this (it happened on their watch after all), or the doctors or hospitals who prescribed the antibiotic regimen aren't on the hook if that was the genesis of the problems.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 02/10/20 8:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I find it extremely unlikely that either USAB or UT self-insure for medical expenses incurred by their students/players/employees. I doubt there are any schools, corporations, govt entities, or healthcare systems in this country that do so. Any medical coverage is provided in the form of a commercial health insurance policy, and it seems likely that Prince's family did not understand what that coverage and exclusions entailed, including seeking a second opinion elsewhere and when coverage would be terminated once Prince unenrolled from UT. Now if UT lied about these issues during her recruitment, that's a whole different kettle of fish.


mzonefan



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PostPosted: 02/11/20 2:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
I'm curious in what country a patient can simply decide on her own that she doesn't like the care she's getting, pack up and travel 1500 miles to another part of the country, to different hospital, and with different doctors and, have the national health system pick up the tab for her preference in care?


Welcome back from wherever you've been, Art.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 02/11/20 6:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
I'm curious in what country a patient can simply decide on her own that she doesn't like the care she's getting, pack up and travel 1500 miles to another part of the country, to different hospital, and with different doctors and, have the national health system pick up the tab for her preference in care?


That happens with Medicare patients all the time. Either the patient wants a second opinion, which is covered, or the snowbird moves from the summer residence in Maine to the winter residence in Florida and transfers their care over to another doctor/facility down there.

ArtBest23 wrote:
My uninformed guess is either that her transfer decisions left her uninsured during some gap of time, or that her own decisions regarding care resulted in procedures deemed not medically necessary (and those judgements are made in single payer systems too, btw; they don't just pay for anything you decide you want).


Other than those doing cosmetic procedures, the vast majority of surgeons aren't in the business of providing "medically unnecessary" procedures regardless of what a patient thinks they want/need. Every surgery practice employs people whose job it is to get pre-approval for planned procedures from the insurance company so claims aren't denied later, including providing the insurer with all the records and documentation necessary to demonstrate medical necessity.

ArtBest23 wrote:
Although I'm wondering why either USA Basketball isn't taking responsibility for all of this (it happened on their watch after all), or the doctors or hospitals who prescribed the antibiotic regimen aren't on the hook if that was the genesis of the problems.


Again, I'm sure USAB doesn't self-insure for medical care. And even if the Abx were the cause of some of the problems, that doesn't mean either the prescribing physician committed malpractice or the drugs themselves were defective. If Prince feels her physicians or pharma were at fault, then her recourse is a malpractice case, not an expectation that someone was going to hand her a check in the absence of any discovery or judgement that someone else was at fault.


I doubt we'll ever be privy to enough information about the medical or insurance issues to have our curiosity satisfied. Prince seems a tad clueless, and the healthcare facilities certainly aren't going to broadcast any information.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 02/12/20 11:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shouldn't happen with Medicare patients unless they have Medicare Advantage, which is just another private insurance masquerading under Medicare's banner. But this is a basketball board and I'm not getting into that.



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