RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Coaches' Seats Getting Warm, and Why
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » NCAA Women's Basketball - General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Matt5762



Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 607



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/25/20 6:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
If Danielle Santos Atkinson's seat at Hofstra isn't a little warm, i don't know why. They are spectacularly bad, and they didn't lose that much from last year.


Well, they were tied for last in the conference last year, graduated their star player, hired a first-time head coach, tragically lost their associate head coach and had to remake their staff late this summer...

No telling what all they might be dealing with there, but regardless I seriously doubt the administration was expecting them to be good this season. I also doubt they have any intention of buying out her contract, so I wouldn't expect her to be on the hot seat for *at least* another 3 years or so, even if the team remains this bad once she gets her own players in.


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 5903
Location: Shenandoah Valley


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/25/20 7:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Matt5762 wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
If Danielle Santos Atkinson's seat at Hofstra isn't a little warm, i don't know why. They are spectacularly bad, and they didn't lose that much from last year.


Well, they were tied for last in the conference last year, graduated their star player, hired a first-time head coach, tragically lost their associate head coach and had to remake their staff late this summer...

No telling what all they might be dealing with there, but regardless I seriously doubt the administration was expecting them to be good this season. I also doubt they have any intention of buying out her contract, so I wouldn't expect her to be on the hot seat for *at least* another 3 years or so, even if the team remains this bad once she gets her own players in.


Most first time head coaches do okay with the players left from the previous year. They are seriously godawful this year, must be seen to be believed.



_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18214
Location: Phoenix


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/27/20 9:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Northwestern State head women's basketball coach Jordan Dupuy has submitted his resignation and will be placed on leave for the remainder of his contract, which expires on April 30.

https://nsudemons.com/news/2020/1/26/lady-demon-basketball-dupuy-resigns-as-lady-demons-coach-swinson-named-interim-head-coach.aspx


ajdawg7



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 479



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/28/20 1:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Jody Wynn’s isn’t, it should be.

She’s losing ground in recruiting, was not even in the conversation for a number of top in state recruits and is statistically the worst WBB coach at UW ever; by a fairly significant margin.

Having witnessed the Tia Jackson era, I’d never have thought UW could hire someone who’d have less success.... but here we are.



_________________
Seek opportunities to show you care. The smallest gestures often make the biggest difference.

John Wooden
CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18214
Location: Phoenix


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/28/20 8:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ajdawg7 wrote:
If Jody Wynn’s isn’t, it should be.

She’s losing ground in recruiting, was not even in the conversation for a number of top in state recruits and is statistically the worst WBB coach at UW ever; by a fairly significant margin.

Having witnessed the Tia Jackson era, I’d never have thought UW could hire someone who’d have less success.... but here we are.


She is in her third season. She took over a program that lost departing seniors Kelsey Plum, Chantel Osahor, Katie Collier and Heather Corrall — a quartet responsible for a 98-41 record over the previous four years, with three NCAAT appearances and making the 2016 Final Four.

Then Aari McDonald, UW's freshman who averaged close to 10 ppg and who would have been the team's leading scorer, decided to transfer to Arizona. And Brianna Ruiz, a senior forward who sat out 2016-17 while recovering from surgery to repair a torn anterior cruciate ligament, chose to retire.

So a rough year was to be expected for 2017-18 - and it was (7-23 overall, 1-17 in the PAC 12).

2018-19 brought a record of 11-21, but with a 2-15 conference record.

This year, Washington is 10-9, with a 2-6 conference record. But the recent losses have been close. This past week, Washington lost on the road to UCLA (in overtime) and USC (in overtime), which followed a loss to ranked Arizona by eight points.

If she can get Washington to 7-11 in the PAC12 this year, that is a good sign for sustained development going forward - albeit, very slow.

But Washington loses two of its top five scorers to graduation. The program has a top-60 recruit coming in from Chaminade College Prep, but Oregon and Stanford are bringing in top classes and Charmin Smith's first class at Cal is a monster one.

I would say that even factoring in the state of the program and what it was losing when she took over, the seat is at the beginning stages of feeling heat. She does have six-year contract, but the program needs to show more growth in the third year.


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 10520



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/28/20 10:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

First, I like Jody, so I'm biased ...

1) What would have been reasonable expectations for a new coach?

Given the strength of the Pac-12 (arguably the best conference in the country), the state of the program (huge graduation losses) and the lack of high school talent in the Northwest (we've struggled to find anyone to rank), I think it would have been hard to do significantly better. In other words, this was going to take some time regardless of who was hired, and I think the measuring stick isn't raw numbers, but progress.

And progress will be hard to come by, as the competition for West Coast talent is fierce and the opportunities and attractiveness of schools like UCLA, Stanford, Oregon and Arizona (easy to get into, sunshine) are probably better than at Washington.

2) Who would have done better, and who would do better now?

Wynn was a successful mid-major coach with strong SoCal roots, which seems like a pretty good combo. She works hard, has never had a sniff of scandal and communicates well.

So what candidate would have had better credentials, and more to the point, which candidate out there has better credentials now?



_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 5903
Location: Shenandoah Valley


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/28/20 11:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You can barely build a TEAM in 3 years, let alone a program. Add to that, Jody Wynn is in the PAC-12, which is a difficult conference. I'd say she has to be given a little more time. I mean, good grief, people.

I realize I said something about the Hofstra coach. I had forgotten she was in her first year. Still, she didn't lose all that much, and for the team to be that spectacularly bad, one has to wonder what's going on there.



_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
ajdawg7



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 479



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/28/20 12:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
First, I like Jody, so I'm biased ...

1) What would have been reasonable expectations for a new coach?

Given the strength of the Pac-12 (arguably the best conference in the country), the state of the program (huge graduation losses) and the lack of high school talent in the Northwest (we've struggled to find anyone to rank), I think it would have been hard to do significantly better. In other words, this was going to take some time regardless of who was hired, and I think the measuring stick isn't raw numbers, but progress.

And progress will be hard to come by, as the competition for West Coast talent is fierce and the opportunities and attractiveness of schools like UCLA, Stanford, Oregon and Arizona (easy to get into, sunshine) are probably better than at Washington.

2) Who would have done better, and who would do better now?

Wynn was a successful mid-major coach with strong SoCal roots, which seems like a pretty good combo. She works hard, has never had a sniff of scandal and communicates well.

So what candidate would have had better credentials, and more to the point, which candidate out there has better credentials now?


Lack of talent in the NW? 5* Van Lith, 4* Daniels and Jenkins this class (for none of whom was UW very competitive)

Yes, UW is harder to get into than Oregon or Arizona (both of whom went through a decade plus of irrelevancy prior to Graves & Barnes)

When Jody took the job, yes the team had been Senior heavy (in-state recruiting was a complaint I had against Neighbors as well), but fresh off the recent success, the fact that UW is an ELITE public university, the booming metropolitan area in Seattle, plus the cities huge support for women’s athletics.... it’s not that hard a sell. How hard is it to sell a follow in the footsteps of Kelsey Plum to guards (as an example)?

If Heather Tarr can get the #1 player in the country in sport played outside starting in February from GA (a time of year that Seattle weather is.... not great) but we can’t expect Jody to be more competitive for an indoor sport for kids that grew up within 50 miles of UW?

To your second question: the top of my prospective new coaches list is Lisa Fortier who’s sustained the success Graves had at GU (and whose W/L record at a mid-major is >>>>> Wynn’s.

Jody’s 2nd class (first full after the transition year) was the worst in the conference (according to ProspectsNation rankings)... at the UW, that’s inexcusable.

I’m sure Jody is a wonderful person, and none of my criticisms of her are personal. It’s about wins and losses and she’s the worst coach in UW history from a overall w/l record and conference w/l record perspective and not by a statistically insignificant margin.

Much more progress was expected this year, and how good will next years team be when the main offensive threat from this years team will have graduated?



_________________
Seek opportunities to show you care. The smallest gestures often make the biggest difference.

John Wooden
ajdawg7



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 479



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/28/20 12:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

accidental double post



_________________
Seek opportunities to show you care. The smallest gestures often make the biggest difference.

John Wooden
ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 10520



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/28/20 5:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree that Fortier is a great candidate -- will UW give her enough more than Gonzaga to get her to come?

Daniels is a nice player, and might be pretty good but she's not going to turn a program around. Same with Jenkins.

Opinions vary on Van Lith -- some love her, some say she's a very good player but not a winning player (don't know, just repeating).

Still, that's not much, really. Cameron Brink, of course, was the big get, but it's hard to compete with Stanford if the grades are there.

Granted, Jody has yet to recruit at the level she needs to, but the same could be said of a lot of P5 coaches who've been around longer. Of course if she doesn't get more talent this next go-round, then she's probably going to struggle for wins.



_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
ajdawg7



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 479



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/28/20 8:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

She’s already struggling for wins. She’s lagging behind Tia Jackson in terms of conference w/l record.

Even if none of the kids this class from Washington are transcendent, how does it help to not be competitive for them and have to go out of state to find talent.

I’ve heard good things about Jada Noble, and hope that Sadler and Whitfield are under the radar gems but to get the ship headed the right direction, she needs to be beating other conference schools for players, not mid-majors.



_________________
Seek opportunities to show you care. The smallest gestures often make the biggest difference.

John Wooden
patsweetpat



Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 2193
Location: Culver City, CA


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/30/20 12:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is in no way a constructive addition to the conversation, but I felt like saying that-- as a Washington transplant who first became even vaguely aware of the women's game in the mid/late 80's-- I have fond memories of the Huskies being a consistently strong program in the Chris Gobrecht era, and I feel a little sad that those days are so far in the rear-view.


Hoopsmom



Joined: 05 Apr 2017
Posts: 300



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/03/20 7:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I’m not sure if any of you have been following, but there is a shit storm brewing down in New Mexico. Mike Bradbury‘s seat is getting very warm. I can’t comment further, but you can look at the posts on the Lobo Lair. Especially “KRQE is Reporting” and “More Troubles”. But there are a few earlier threads as well, and Twitter is on fire between current and former players lining up on both sides. Quite a few, like my daughter, cannot and will not comment but their names keep getting dragged in.




Last edited by Hoopsmom on 02/03/20 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 10520



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/03/20 11:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Washington just lost to Cal at home, something that the Huskies had to work at, so Jody Wynn's seat temperature just went up a few degrees.



_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
ajdawg7



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 479



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/08/20 5:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just lost to Utah at home by 9.

3 years in and no clear evidence of progress and loss after loss mounting.

11th place in the conference with only Cal who’s coach is in her first year in the rear view (and a better regarded incoming class coming in for next year)...



_________________
Seek opportunities to show you care. The smallest gestures often make the biggest difference.

John Wooden
Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 1357
Location: Seattle, WA


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/08/20 7:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ajdawg7 wrote:
Just lost to Utah at home by 9.

3 years in and no clear evidence of progress and loss after loss mounting.

11th place in the conference with only Cal who’s coach is in her first year in the rear view (and a better regarded incoming class coming in for next year)...


And Utah was led by star freshman Brynna Maxwell, who is of course from a town an hour away from Seattle. I know she was considering picking UW at one point, though I don’t know how serious she was about it. Same deal with the aforementioned USC recruit, Jordyn Jenkins, who was Quay Miller’s high school teammate. I wonder how Miller feels about playing for Washington these days...

I totally missed the discussion on this page. Here were my thoughts on it on the PAC-12 board: http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?p=1603983#1603983

I agree with everything you’ve said about Wynn & the state of the program. Can’t recruit players, can’t develop players, can’t win. I feel bad for the upperclassmen that could’ve transferred but chose to stay (even if their lack of talent is part of the problem); Nothing to show for their time there, other than one or two marquee wins. If nothing else, they’ve at least gotten a great education. I’ll be surprised if some of this year’s freshmen & sophomores don’t transfer out after the year ends.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8086



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/08/20 10:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ajdawg7 wrote:
Lack of talent in the NW? 5* Van Lith, 4* Daniels and Jenkins this class (for none of whom was UW very competitive)

If Heather Tarr can get the #1 player in the country in sport played outside starting in February from GA (a time of year that Seattle weather is.... not great) but we can’t expect Jody to be more competitive for an indoor sport for kids that grew up within 50 miles of UW?


Some percentage of top recruits will look to stay close to home - and an even smaller group will do so if the local team is not that good, or a very small amount, if any, will do so even when, as in the case of Washington, their local team has been very bad in their conference. The vast majority look to go to a team that has had a lot of recent success. Wynn's recruiting should be looked at as to how she did with recruits outside the top 100, not inside it.


calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 4379
Location: Carson City


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/09/20 3:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jody Wynn was a VERY popular coach at Long Beach St. There was no question that her first year was going to be awful with the players they lost, and since she wasn't hired until after the end of the season the recruiting year was lost. There have been glimmers of hope but this conference season has certainly been a disappointment.

I don't think the rest of her coaching staff (which she brought from Long Beach St) has helped her and I believe bringing in a veteran assistant with recruiting success could really help. I don't believe she will get rid of her associate head coach, but some new blood could help. But I do think it is too soon to give up on Wynn.


LitePal



Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 529



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/09/20 8:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LOL, you could have just said "husband" instead of associate head coach. If she had hired April Phllips instead of Cal, they might have turned the corner but this staff isn't getting it done. However, didn't Wynn make a fairly infamous statement about not wanting stars on her teams?


ajdawg7



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 479



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/09/20 9:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Her transition class was better than the next one she signed.

Which was only a year removed from UW being in the Sweet 16 and 2 years from their appearance in the Final Four.



_________________
Seek opportunities to show you care. The smallest gestures often make the biggest difference.

John Wooden
Davis4632



Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 660



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/09/20 9:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
LOL, you could have just said "husband" instead of associate head coach. If she had hired April Phllips instead of Cal, they might have turned the corner but this staff isn't getting it done. However, didn't Wynn make a fairly infamous statement about not wanting stars on her teams?


Here's the statement about stars.

“We run an equal-opportunity system,” Wynn said. “We don’t run a star system for one kid and the plays are run through 1 or 2 people.

We play a bench. We sub. We get up and down the court. We press. We run. We get after it defensively. We like to dictate tempo. We like to generate scoring opportunities through our defense. We play multiple defenses. We change things up. Offensively, we spread the floor. And we have good ball movement."


Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 1357
Location: Seattle, WA


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/10/20 12:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Davis4632 wrote:
LitePal wrote:
LOL, you could have just said "husband" instead of associate head coach. If she had hired April Phllips instead of Cal, they might have turned the corner but this staff isn't getting it done. However, didn't Wynn make a fairly infamous statement about not wanting stars on her teams?


Here's the statement about stars.

“We run an equal-opportunity system,” Wynn said. “We don’t run a star system for one kid and the plays are run through 1 or 2 people.

We play a bench. We sub. We get up and down the court. We press. We run. We get after it defensively. We like to dictate tempo. We like to generate scoring opportunities through our defense. We play multiple defenses. We change things up. Offensively, we spread the floor. And we have good ball movement."


I also recall her saying at one point that "it's not a 'star' system per se, but stars could arise through the course of the system." I believe she was referencing Melgoza and her individual success. But Melgoza will run out of eligibility soon and absolutely no one else on the current roster has risen up as her first-option replacement. Sometimes no longer having a high-usage player makes the rest of the team play better as a team, but that won't be the case for this team next year imo. If we're very lucky, one of the new recruits will be that person, but I'm not holding my breath.

I think about Arizona State and how they've run a liberal-rotation program, which for UW would probably be their ceiling, and have they even made a Final Four in any of Charli Turner Thorne's years? No. Liberal rotations that run out 10+ players every game don't win championships. There are too many connectivity issues with running out so many lineup combinations such that it's much harder for momentum to be gained and much easier for it to be lost - and it doesn't matter how much talent is starting or on the bench. Even if they shorten the rotation up during postseason play, the starters haven't gotten enough burn with each other in the regular season to be a well-oiled machine + they aren't used to playing together for much of the game. It doesn't work, all the way around. And Wynn always starts subbing well before the first media timeout, which in & of itself I've never understood.


LitePal



Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 529



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/10/20 1:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It does sound like Wynn's philosophy is suited towards the mid majors, where a star system is less likely. If she does recruit a top player and doesn't know what to do with then, it's a lose/lose situation for everyone. I think most Pac teams badly needs that star player who can take over. It also sounds like she is not overly articulate, which leads to confusion. But in the end, people are more concerned about w/l and she's not delivering. If she can't adjust her own philosophies, strategies and recruiting to this level, she is doomed to failure.

It does read like an insult to players like Melgoza and even Kelsey Plum.


PickledGinger



Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 673



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/10/20 6:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Seattle resident here. I like Jodi (a hell of a lot more than Tia Jackson, that’s for sure) and I do think she’s at a disadvantage being the newest coach in the toughest conference.

That being said, I feel like her saying she doesn’t run a star-system is either an excuse for her inability to recruit a star player, or an admission that she has no interest in doing so. Either option is a problem for me.


ajdawg7



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 479



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/10/20 8:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

She’s not the newest coach in the conference anymore.

Smith & Ethridge are both newer at their respective schools.

I’m sure Jody is a wonderful person. She’s just not a successful head basketball coach at UW and I’ve seen no evidence that’s likely to change.

The no stars/stars within the system works at the mid-majors (sometimes), but you have to have one or two go-tos to be successful in the power conferences, particularly in one where they play pretty good defense and need someone to create something when little is there from running a set.



_________________
Seek opportunities to show you care. The smallest gestures often make the biggest difference.

John Wooden
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » NCAA Women's Basketball - General Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin