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Rise of Skywalker

 
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justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 12/20/19 5:10 pm    ::: Rise of Skywalker Reply Reply with quote

Just got back from seeing it.

It was a perfectly okay movie.

Perhaps it is best described as a master class in what happens when you worry more about not pissing anyone off than telling the absolute best story you can. Amazing battle scenes and well choreographed fights all backdropped by John Williams' brilliant score means there is a solid entertainment factor, and Abrams does well to tickle the nostalgia button early and often. But standing in stark contrast to The Last Jedi, it never gets any deeper than that. There is no message at all. At its heart, it's simply a rehash of the general themes and story of the original trilogy, just with new players. In fact, it seems to go out of its way to undermine all the work the last film did setting up this trilogy to tell a unique, new story that would openly demand us to question things we had long held as gospel. Within the first 10 minutes of the movie there is a scene with Kylo during which I was literally rolling my eyes as the dialogue could have just as easily read "About that thing I said last movie? Yeah, it pissed off some vocal fanboys so we're retconning it." And in that moment, I predicted exactly what their retcon would be; because it was so blatantly obvious and incredibly lazy.

So I just got back from the Star Wars finale.

It was a perfectly okay movie.

But oh what a requiem for what could have been.



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Youth Coach



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PostPosted: 12/20/19 9:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Given that I thought The Last Jedi was a terrible movie, we aren't likely to agree much but I thought The Rise of Skywalker was a pretty good movie.

It felt like a Star Wars movie as opposed to a movie that was made first and then slapped with the Star Wars banner on it.
Richard 77



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 3909
Location: Lake Mills, Wisconsin


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PostPosted: 12/21/19 6:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Youth Coach wrote:
Given that I thought The Last Jedi was a terrible movie, we aren't likely to agree much but I thought The Rise of Skywalker was a pretty good movie.

It felt like a Star Wars movie as opposed to a movie that was made first and then slapped with the Star Wars banner on it.


I haven't seen this either, but in reading the reviews as well as watching his Star Trek reboot, I'm of the belief that J.J. isn't the kid genius a lot of other people make him out to be. I'm not too hopeful for TROS.

Oh, I did buy the soundtrack. I think John will be grateful for this to end too. IMO, there are definite tiny hints of Harry Potter and Indiana Jones in the score.



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Youth Coach



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: 12/21/19 9:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
Youth Coach wrote:
Given that I thought The Last Jedi was a terrible movie, we aren't likely to agree much but I thought The Rise of Skywalker was a pretty good movie.

It felt like a Star Wars movie as opposed to a movie that was made first and then slapped with the Star Wars banner on it.


I haven't seen this either, but in reading the reviews as well as watching his Star Trek reboot, I'm of the belief that J.J. isn't the kid genius a lot of other people make him out to be. I'm not too hopeful for TROS.

Oh, I did buy the soundtrack. I think John will be grateful for this to end too. IMO, there are definite tiny hints of Harry Potter and Indiana Jones in the score.


JJ Abrams always starts out good and has weak follow through. At least in the stuff that I've watched through his career since the Alias TV show.

However, I liked Star Wars: The Force Awakens and I think that with Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker he gave an "ending" to the franchise that fit within the established canon, far better than the terrible Star Wars: The Last Jedi ever could be credited with being.
PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 15035
Location: Chicago


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PostPosted: 12/22/19 10:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Youth Coach wrote:
Given that I thought The Last Jedi was a terrible movie, we aren't likely to agree much but I thought The Rise of Skywalker was a pretty good movie.

It felt like a Star Wars movie as opposed to a movie that was made first and then slapped with the Star Wars banner on it.


I also did not like The Last Jedi at all, and I am really, really sick of any dislike of that movie being framed as nothing by misogyny and racism (Not that Justin did that, but I have seen it a lot of places).


Youth Coach



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PostPosted: 12/23/19 7:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:


I also did not like The Last Jedi at all, and I am really, really sick of any dislike of that movie being framed as nothing by misogyny and racism (Not that Justin did that, but I have seen it a lot of places).


I don't hold myself out as any kind of expert in movies or movie-making but it is not racist or misogynistic to simply think a movie is a bad movie. Those that try to frame it otherwise, I tend to think are full of it.
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 60296
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 12/26/19 4:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I enjoyed RISE OF SKYWALKER and am happy with it, but a lot of people aren't and I have a lot of room in my heart and head for different views.

Style: RISE OF SKYWALKER is so tautly, quickly, forcefully paced that it goes by fast. JJ Abrams is an entertainer whereas Rian Johnson is a philosopher. Rian Johnson was making pointed remarks about dynastic bloodlines, military strategy, theocratic governance and the hollowness of legacies. Abrams is making the point that it is COOL to have the Millennium Falcon flash-jump to different planets and to have Rey take down a TIE Interceptor with a lightsaber.

Space: STAR WARS has the space to welcome both, but it does leave RISE OF SKYWALKER open to valid criticisms: that it is shallow where THE LAST JEDI was deep. Also, THE LAST JEDI let the Empire/First Order win, had the Rebels/Resistance reduced from an army of hundreds of thousands to maybe 40 - 50 people aboard the Falcon, the Jedi represented only by Leia (whose actor died shortly after filming) and Rey (who is physically capable but emotionally troubled).

This is a massive shift from the capable if underpowered Rebels of A NEW HOPE and EMPIRE and a total reversal of their apparent victory in RETURN OF THE JEDI.

Repetition: In contrast, RISE OF SKYWALKER ends with the Rebels/Resistance having triumphed by killing Emperor Palpatine which seems significantly important except they'd accomplished the same thing in RETURN OF THE JEDI which means RISE OF SKYWALKER is in the unfortunate position of resurrecting Palpatine just to kill him again.

In a few decades time, we may find Rey leading a losing resistance once again while the Empire dominates the galaxy with, I dunno, a resurrected Phasma in charge.

Mastermind: However. RISE OF SKYWALKER establishes that the destruction of the Death Star 2.0 in RETURN OF THE JEDI was merely a decisive battle and that the Emperor survived but in so damaged a body that he can't leave his life support system. Which means that the Resistance being on the losing side of THE FORCE AWAKENS and THE LAST JEDI was all due to the Emperor running the First Order through the Emperor speaking through the Snoke clones (earlier versions of which are glimpsed in Palpatine's lair).

Details: Furthermore, RISE establishes that the planet of Exogol houses the Emperor's fleet; destroy the fleet, kill the Emperor, and the First Order loses all coordination and leadership as well as their most powerful weapons, so even though RETURN declared that destroying the Death Star 2.0 would be the final and decisive battle, RISE does some work to say that this showdown on Exogol will truly be the final and decisive battle and they meant it before but this time they mean it for realzies, but this is a yet another rerun.

RISE splits various hairs to claim this finale really counts, but if RETURN didn't count, why should this?

Reversal: Fans are also offended by Luke saying that he was wrong to have the attitude he did in THE LAST JEDI and Rey being revealed as not being nobody from nowhere but the Empress of the Sith and Palatine's granddaughter.

Enjoyable: I personally am not blind to these problems, but I feel that RISE OF SKYWALKER gets past all of these issues by being so quickly paced. Each scene flies by so fast with a minimum of exposition. Chris Terrio's script is expressive and sparingly dialogued. Where THE LAST JEDI was deliberate and controlled, RISE OF SKYWALKER is a relentless adrenaline burst and skillfully hurried and therefore a lot of fun.

Entertainer: There's also a certain desperation that reflects the pressure Abrams was under. Abrams has talked about how, when directing STAR TREK: INTO DARKNESS, he lost track of the core themes of the story and just tried to make each scene as exciting as possible and hoped it would be coherent.

It looks like he has attempted the same with RISE OF SKYWALKER where he was parachuted into the film with two years to write, pre-produce, film and edit the movie; the previous script had been thrown out due to Carrie Fisher's death.

Continuation: Rian Johnson shuttered the Resistance, killed off Luke, left the First Order victorious, and suggested that the First Order would be defeated not by the Jedi and not by the Resistance but by a new generation of heroes. Abrams had to create a script that would follow up on all that but also feature Daisy Ridley, John Boyega and Oscar Isaacs front and center, address Carrie Fisher's absence, resolve the Resistance/First Order conflict, conclude Kylo Ren's situation and serve as a finale.

Necessities: As a result, some of Abrams' obligations conflict with Rian Johnson's vision in THE LAST JEDI; THE LAST JEDI proposes that the STAR WARS universe continue with new characters in a First Order dominated galaxy with an open-ended approach; Abrams is required to cobble together a conclusion by undoing RETURN OF THE JEDI to restage its victory.

THE LAST JEDI suggests moving onto new characters represented by the boy with the broom and Rose Tico; Abrams is contractually obligated to have his core cast feature front and center and build their relationships with each other and conclude them in the same movie as they had only one scene together in the previous film.

Acknowledgement Without Focus: Due to this need, Rose Tico becomes anonymous base personnel. RISE OF SKYWALKER also fails to focus on the idea that there may be heroes outside the Resistance and the Jedi Order and the Skywalker families, but it does nod to it with Finn and Jannah both being former stormtroopers who have Force sensitivity.

And due to the need to reintroduce the Emperor to defeat him again and offer a sense of closure, Abrams is required to link him to a core cast member and chooses to reveal him as Rey's grandfather.

Blood: This last one rankles severely with fans. Fans who are adopted children were hurt by RISE OF SKYWALKER suggesting that people need to have defined bloodlines to have identities; critics have noted that the idea of children of legacies being above others is undemocratic and has no place in a world where people should be evaluated by ability and attitude over birth; viewers are irked that RISE OF SKYWALKER suggests that only people from important families can make a difference.

Harmony: Personally, I see all of that, but what I also see is another note to THE LAST JEDI, a film that declared that heroes can come from anywhere. When Rey confessed in THE LAST JEDI that her parents "were nobody," it was a moment of grief and loss.

When Rey discovers that her grandfather is Palpatine, she is consumed with self-loathing, isolating herself to Ahch To as Luke did, burning her spacecraft, throwing away the lightsaber -- only for Luke to catch it and inform her that Luke and Leia have known all along about Rey's parentage and still chose to teach her, Luke in his indirect and cynical fashion and Leia with wholehearted love and devotion.

And while THE LAST JEDI has Luke declaring that it is time for the Jedi to end, his final scenes in that film had him changing his mind, saying that he wouldn't be the last after all, so Luke in RISE OF SKYWALKER declaring that he was wrong in THE LAST JEDI to isolate himself is continuing Luke from where Rian Johnson left him.

Legacy: THE LAST JEDI also had Luke calling the Jedi Order a legacy of failure noting that the prequels showed them to be incompetent (they allow slave labour to prosper), blind (they allowed the Sith to rise in their own government) and not worth preserving. RISE OF SKYWALKER has Luke telling Rey that she must face Palpatine or the Jedi will die, but Luke is noticeably not calling for the Jedi to be restored as a governing body; he merely wants there to be at least one Jedi in the galaxy and for that Jedi to be Rey.

Identity: There is affirmation and beauty in Luke revealing that he and his sister chose to see Rey in terms of who she was and could be instead of where she came from because, as THE LAST JEDI declared, heroes can indeed come from anywhere and I think that's summed up beautifully in the final scene. "I'm Rey." "'Rey' who?" "Rey Skywalker."

In taking on the Skywalker name with Luke and Leia watching approvingly, Rey is committing not to bloodlines -- but to the legend of Luke Skywalker as a person who will (in the end) help people find light and hope whether they're Darth Vader or the last 40 - 50 fighters in a failed Resistance or the Empress of the Sith.

Action: And it was nice to see all this in a fast-paced, driven, exciting action movie with so many cool scenes from Rey and Kylo fighting in the wreckage of the Death Star 2.0, the light-speed skipping sequences, Rey's obstacle course, Rey aided to victory by previous the voices of Jedi.

There's also some nice loophole logic where the Emperor declares that Rey killing him in rage and hatred will allow him to possess her body; Rey instead reflects the Emperor's lightning back at him and he kills himself.

I liked THE LAST JEDI as a thoughtful, contemplative film of defeat and I like RISE OF SKYWALKER as a widescreen action extravaganza of victory that harmonizes with THE LAST JEDI but is more of a crowdpleaser. I find that THE LAST JEDI and RISE OF SKYWALKER aren't at odds; they're saying similar things but with very different words spoken by very different people and I'm happy to have both.



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PostPosted: 12/26/19 10:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting take on the movie pilight.
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