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Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 01/06/20 4:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Former Duke star Rebecca Greenwell aims for 2020 WNBA debut, from High Post Hoops.

Quote:
...after Greenwell decided to have her sixth knee surgery last fall, she declined an offer from Mystics head coach Mike Thibault to renounce her rights and allow her to sign with another team. “You’re the number one team I’d love to play for,” she told him.


toad455



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PostPosted: 01/06/20 9:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Former Duke star Rebecca Greenwell aims for 2020 WNBA debut, from High Post Hoops.

Quote:
...after Greenwell decided to have her sixth knee surgery last fall, she declined an offer from Mystics head coach Mike Thibault to renounce her rights and allow her to sign with another team. “You’re the number one team I’d love to play for,” she told him.


She's such a longshot to make the roster, but good luck to her.



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Aladyyn



Joined: 23 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: 01/06/20 3:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That's a great mindset to have, and I think the Mystics are a good choice despite the quality of the roster. If she's good enough she'll get in, regardless of factors like draft position. And if she's good enough to get meaningful minutes, she will Smile


Shades



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PostPosted: 01/06/20 4:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
That's a great mindset to have, and I think the Mystics are a good choice despite the quality of the roster. If she's good enough she'll get in, regardless of factors like draft position. And if she's good enough to get meaningful minutes, she will Smile


Kiara Leslie plays the same position, which doesn’t bode well for Greenwell’s odds. Thibault willing to rescind her rights means he doesn’t think she’ll have much of a chance and maybe she’d have a better chance on a different team. Greenwell not wanting to have her rights rescinded probably shows she knows no other team will invite her to camp.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 01/06/20 7:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

yeah, Thibault held a roster spot of Leslie all season. Greenwell just doesn't stand much of a chance unless half the team bolts elsewhere or retires.



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Carol Anne



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 01/21/20 8:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Mystics will have a tough time offering Elena Delle Donne, Emma Meesseman and Kristi Toliver max salaries this season
The specifics of the 2019 WNBA CBA are starting to trickle out. One of the realities is that they can’t offer maximum salaries to all of their top contributors...
By Albert Lee@aleeinthedmv Jan 20, 2020, 9:00am EST
https://www.bulletsforever.com/mystics/2020/1/20/21068210/washington-mystics-free-agency-emma-meesseman-elena-delle-donne-kristi-toliver


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 01/21/20 9:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Four games to watch as the Washington Mystics defend 2019 WNBA title
Jenn Hatfield (High Post Hoops)

The unbalanced schedule looks favorable, but it’s hard to say for sure right now.
With 36 games in a 12-team league, each team plays eight teams three times and three teams four times. The teams Washington plays four times are Atlanta, New York, and Indiana—all non-playoff teams a season ago.


https://highposthoops.com/2020/01/18/wnba-champions-washington-mystics-release-2020-schedule/


pilight



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PostPosted: 01/21/20 10:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fortunately, the Mystics can pay Toliver through her Wizards coaching job



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 01/21/20 11:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Carol Anne wrote:
The Mystics will have a tough time offering Elena Delle Donne, Emma Meesseman and Kristi Toliver max salaries this season
The specifics of the 2019 WNBA CBA are starting to trickle out. One of the realities is that they can’t offer maximum salaries to all of their top contributors...
By Albert Lee@aleeinthedmv Jan 20, 2020, 9:00am EST
https://www.bulletsforever.com/mystics/2020/1/20/21068210/washington-mystics-free-agency-emma-meesseman-elena-delle-donne-kristi-toliver

They can max all three and stay under, based on the numbers I have. But it would mean keeping 11 players most of the season rather than 12.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 01/21/20 11:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Carol Anne wrote:
The Mystics will have a tough time offering Elena Delle Donne, Emma Meesseman and Kristi Toliver max salaries this season
The specifics of the 2019 WNBA CBA are starting to trickle out. One of the realities is that they can’t offer maximum salaries to all of their top contributors...
By Albert Lee@aleeinthedmv Jan 20, 2020, 9:00am EST
https://www.bulletsforever.com/mystics/2020/1/20/21068210/washington-mystics-free-agency-emma-meesseman-elena-delle-donne-kristi-toliver

They can max all three and stay under, based on the numbers I have. But it would mean keeping 11 players most of the season rather than 12.


Does prevent them from getting any big name FA's I would think. I suppose they could trade players like Powers, Howard, etc for cap space (or FRP 2021)....



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toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 01/21/20 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Carol Anne wrote:
The Mystics will have a tough time offering Elena Delle Donne, Emma Meesseman and Kristi Toliver max salaries this season
The specifics of the 2019 WNBA CBA are starting to trickle out. One of the realities is that they can’t offer maximum salaries to all of their top contributors...
By Albert Lee@aleeinthedmv Jan 20, 2020, 9:00am EST
https://www.bulletsforever.com/mystics/2020/1/20/21068210/washington-mystics-free-agency-emma-meesseman-elena-delle-donne-kristi-toliver

They can max all three and stay under, based on the numbers I have. But it would mean keeping 11 players most of the season rather than 12.


They basically only had 11 last season, so.... I doubt Mestadagh shows. Just a matter who else they keep. Kiara Leslie? The #12 pick? Hines-Allen?

PG: Cloud
SG: Toliver/Walker-Kimbrough
SF: Atkins/Powers
PF: Delle Donne/Meesseman
C: Sanders/Hawkins



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 01/21/20 11:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Does prevent them from getting any big name FA's I would think. I suppose they could trade players like Powers, Howard, etc for cap space (or FRP 2021)....

Yeah, they're basically not in the Bonner/McCoughtry etc. sweepstakes unless one of EDD/Toliver/Meesseman doesn't re-sign, or they go through a lot of manoeuvring. Or of course people could agree to take less to make some things possible, but even that's probably a stretch in this case.

Also means their first-round pick this year (#12) may well end up as camp fodder. Whoever it is would have to beat out Walker-Kimbrough, Hines-Allen or Leslie to stick, just based on what they already have (and assuming their big three all re-sign).



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root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 01/21/20 12:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is Meesseman going to be there at the beginning of the year? If she doesn't join them until after the Olympics, I believe they can save cap space simply by waiting to sign her. That's where NY screwed up last season. Johannes and Stokes signed contracts early that had to be carried against the cap even though Marine didn't show up until midseason and Kiah never joined the team at all. That made it harder for them to get a replacement player when Zahui and Hartley left for national team duty and Allen broke her hand. Initially, NY didn't have enough cap room.



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stever



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PostPosted: 01/29/20 11:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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greg5222



Joined: 03 May 2006
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PostPosted: 01/30/20 4:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Great news!! Now come back with your bad self!!

2019 WNBA Champions Washington Mystics

PEACE & LOVE GO MYSTICS!!!!!



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Shades



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PostPosted: 01/30/20 4:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thibault says he has verbal agreements with Delle Donne and Meesseman (can’t sign until 2/10), and they’re working on Toliver. I take that to mean they want to give Toliver less than the new max.

Thibault likes the team that he has. He’s not in the market for another big money player.

He points out (like I’ve been trying to) that teams need to budget for future contracts and not just recklessly add new big money players.



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 01/31/20 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Thibault says he has verbal agreements with Delle Donne and Meesseman (can’t sign until 2/10), and they’re working on Toliver. I take that to mean they want to give Toliver less than the new max.


I have not yet read the new CBA section regarding what I am referring to as "The Toliver Rule," which prevented her from earning more than $10,000 as a Washington Wizards assistant last year.

Presumably, however, if the rule was eliminated in the new CBA and if Toliver will be making more money as an NBA assistant coach, she may not be as dependent on her WNBA salary for income, as it would not be the primary source of her annual compensation.


pilight



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PostPosted: 01/31/20 10:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Thibault says he has verbal agreements with Delle Donne and Meesseman (can’t sign until 2/10), and they’re working on Toliver. I take that to mean they want to give Toliver less than the new max.


I have not yet read the new CBA section regarding what I am referring to as "The Toliver Rule," which prevented her from earning more than $10,000 as a Washington Wizards assistant last year.

Presumably, however, if the rule was eliminated in the new CBA and if Toliver will be making more money as an NBA assistant coach, she may not be as dependent on her WNBA salary for income, as it would not be the primary source of her annual compensation.


Thus allowing the Mystics to keep her without most of her pay counting against the salary cap, precisely what the old rule was designed to prevent. Teams that can give their players high paying outside jobs that don't count against the salary cap will be at a significant advantage in the free agent market.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 01/31/20 10:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Article XV
Section 3. Diversity in Coaching Initiative.
Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in Section 1 and Section 2 above and consistent
with the “WNBA’s Diversity in Coaching Initiative,” it shall not be considered a violation of
Section 1 or Section 2 above if a Team Affiliate hires a player to perform Off-Season basketball
coaching or basketball operations services for a team not in the WNBA; provided that: (i) the
player has at least eight ( 8 ) Years of Service in the WNBA and three (3) Years of Service with
the Team affiliated with the Team Affiliate at the time of the of the agreement between the Team
Affiliate and the player; (ii) the player provides the coaching/basketball operations services on a
full-time basis during the Off-Season; (iii) the agreement between the player and the Team
Affiliate is in no way connected to the signing of any Player Contract (including any amendment
to that Player Contract or Extension of that Player Contract); (iv) the compensation to be
received by the player from the Team Affiliate represents the fair market value of the services to
be performed, as determined by the WNBA, prorated as necessary to reflect the number of
months in the Off-Season when the player will be providing the full-time services; and (v) the
agreement in its entirety is approved by the WNBA within its sole discretion (a “Diversity in
Coaching Initiative Employment Arrangement”). The factors to be considered by the WNBA in
connection with its decision whether or not to approve a Diversity in Coaching Initiative
Employment Arrangement will include, but not be limited to: (i) whether the agreement serves to
frustrate the essential benefits of this Collective Bargaining Agreement, including those related
to the Salary Cap and free agency; (ii) the timing of the agreement and whether the compensation
to be received by the player could in any way be considered to be in lieu of compensation under
a Player Contract and/or an enticement to sign a Player Contract; and (iii) the connection
between the services to be performed, the basketball operations needs of the Team Affiliate, and
the post-playing career aspirations of the player.



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wnbafan



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PostPosted: 02/03/20 1:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Thibault says he has verbal agreements with Delle Donne and Meesseman (can’t sign until 2/10), and they’re working on Toliver. I take that to mean they want to give Toliver less than the new max.

Thibault likes the team that he has. He’s not in the market for another big money player.

He points out (like I’ve been trying to) that teams need to budget for future contracts and not just recklessly add new big money players.


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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 02/03/20 2:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Thibault says he has verbal agreements with Delle Donne and Meesseman (can’t sign until 2/10), and they’re working on Toliver. I take that to mean they want to give Toliver less than the new max.


I have not yet read the new CBA section regarding what I am referring to as "The Toliver Rule," which prevented her from earning more than $10,000 as a Washington Wizards assistant last year.

Presumably, however, if the rule was eliminated in the new CBA and if Toliver will be making more money as an NBA assistant coach, she may not be as dependent on her WNBA salary for income, as it would not be the primary source of her annual compensation.


Thus allowing the Mystics to keep her without most of her pay counting against the salary cap, precisely what the old rule was designed to prevent. Teams that can give their players high paying outside jobs that don't count against the salary cap will be at a significant advantage in the free agent market.


And thus allowing the player to not be penalized by having her offseason compensation subjected to a limit, as it was for Toliver the previous season, when she made $10,000 (NBA Assistants make at least $100,000 and Toliver could have made more than $500,000 last offseason playing overseas).


pilight



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PostPosted: 02/03/20 2:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
pilight wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Thibault says he has verbal agreements with Delle Donne and Meesseman (can’t sign until 2/10), and they’re working on Toliver. I take that to mean they want to give Toliver less than the new max.


I have not yet read the new CBA section regarding what I am referring to as "The Toliver Rule," which prevented her from earning more than $10,000 as a Washington Wizards assistant last year.

Presumably, however, if the rule was eliminated in the new CBA and if Toliver will be making more money as an NBA assistant coach, she may not be as dependent on her WNBA salary for income, as it would not be the primary source of her annual compensation.


Thus allowing the Mystics to keep her without most of her pay counting against the salary cap, precisely what the old rule was designed to prevent. Teams that can give their players high paying outside jobs that don't count against the salary cap will be at a significant advantage in the free agent market.


And thus allowing the player to not be penalized by having her offseason compensation subjected to a limit, as it was for Toliver the previous season, when she made $10,000 (NBA Assistants make at least $100,000 and Toliver could have made more than $500,000 last offseason playing overseas).


Why limit this to coaching jobs? Why not let Kelly Loeffler hire Angel McCoughtry to work for Bakkt? If you're going to make the salary cap a joke, might as well go all the way.



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PostPosted: 02/03/20 3:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Why limit this to coaching jobs? Why not let Kelly Loeffler hire Angel McCoughtry to work for Bakkt? If you're going to make the salary cap a joke, might as well go all the way.

There are a lot of restrictions in that section of the CBA you quoted. They're trying to make it as difficult to exploit as they can while still letting players explore coaching opportunities and be compensted properly for them, whether with the organisation they're playing for or not. Yeah, I understand why the rule was the way it was in the past, and people could try to take advantage now, but it's something the players wanted and they're trying the best they can to keep it fair.

All of that said, if Toliver re-signs for the vet minimum, GMs and coaches around the league are gong to be up in arms. Even a dollar less than the max and a few eyebrows are going to be raised.



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PostPosted: 02/03/20 4:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Riichy you’ve always been a bright one . This for one will be something to watch . If she does sign for the minimum I’d definitely reach out to contacts in some form of a complaint to league officials. And no it’s not bc they’re the defending champs, bc fair is fair.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 02/03/20 8:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
pilight wrote:
Why limit this to coaching jobs? Why not let Kelly Loeffler hire Angel McCoughtry to work for Bakkt? If you're going to make the salary cap a joke, might as well go all the way.

There are a lot of restrictions in that section of the CBA you quoted. They're trying to make it as difficult to exploit as they can while still letting players explore coaching opportunities and be compensted properly for them, whether with the organisation they're playing for or not. Yeah, I understand why the rule was the way it was in the past, and people could try to take advantage now, but it's something the players wanted and they're trying the best they can to keep it fair.

All of that said, if Toliver re-signs for the vet minimum, GMs and coaches around the league are gong to be up in arms. Even a dollar less than the max and a few eyebrows are going to be raised.


The league hasn't actually approved Toliver getting paid more than $10k for coaching the Wizards. One suspects they won't if the Mystics try to get cute.



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